Mia vs Oscar (FE10)

[Lord Raven]

Red Fox opens, just thought I'd make this topic for convenience.

[Florete]

Sorry for the delay, but I probably won't have an opener until Saturday. I need to finish up my Volug opener for the tournament and...school. Lulz.

[Lord Raven]

school sucks lol, I sympathize

I wouldn't have been able to make an opener today either ;/

[Florete]

I always start off my arguments with the most important factor: looks.

Mia (I jacked this from my post in the fanart topic) This one is the best one.

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - With Mist - With Ilyana - With Ilyana 2 - With Ilyana 3 - With Ilyana 4 - With Ilyana 5 - With Ilyana 6 - With Ilyana 7 - With Nephenee and Tormod - With Ilyana and Nephenee - With Ilyana and Zihark - With Ilyana and Micaiah - With Micaiah - With Shinon - With Shinon 2 - With Shinon 3 - With Shinon 4 - With Shinon 5 - With Soren ® - With Soren 2 ®

Oscar - Official art. And that's it. I've never seen any Oscar fanart.

Mia - Cute, hot, popular, boobs.

Oscar - Eyes are always closed.

Winner = Mia. This is undeniable proof that Mia > Oscar. You should just quit now. :P

But in case that wasn't convincing enough for you, I'll get into statistics.

Neither are around for parts 1 and 2, but they both join in 3-P, so that's the obvious starting point. Statistics:

Mia, level 7 w/ Vantage/Shove/Crit +10 (Steel Sword/Wo Dao) Neutral Bio

HP: 34

Atk: 26/24

Hit: 170/175

Crit: 23/43

AS: 28

Avoid: 89

Dodge: 18

Def: 13

Res: 8

Range: 1

Oscar, level 12 w/Canto (Steel Lance/Short Spear) Neutral Bio

HP: 38

Atk: 30/30

Hit: 157/132

Crit: 11/11

AS: 21

Avoid: 75

Dodge: 18

Def: 17

Res: 13

Range: 1/1~2

Oscar has a 4-6 damage lead, but Mia has +7 AS, pretty good crit, and +14 avoid to partially compensate for lower defensive stats. The only real advantage Oscar has is range, but at the loss of hit. But now we need enemies. (Quote tags for ease of use)

1x Swordmaster lvl 7 (Steel Sword)

HP 33, Atk 25, AS 22, Hit 142, Avo 57, DEF 15, RES 20, Crit 21, Ddg 13

Mia 2 rounds with either weapon, 10/30 Crit chance, doubling for higher crit opportunites. Has 100% hit chance. 3 rounded at 56.2% true hit, 3% crit. (I'm not good with those kinds of Maths like Vykan is, so I can't give %chance of dying)

Oscar 3 rounds, no crit, no double. 100% w/ Steel Lance, 87.7% true w/ Short Spear. 5 rounded at 63.4% true hit, 3% crit.

Offensively, Mia wins. Defensively, Oscar wins, though with two healers and not that many enemies, defense isn't a big issue for Mia. Mia = winner.

1x Warrior lvl 8 (Steel Axe)

HP 40, Atk 33, AS 20, Hit 129, Avo 54, DEF 15, RES 9, Crit 10, Ddg 14

Mia 2-3 rounds with 9/29 crit and still doubles, making 2 rounds with Wo Dao more possible. 100% hit. 2 rounded at 32.4% true, no crit.

Oscar 3 rounds, no crit, no double. 100% w/ SL, 90.5% true w/ SS. 3 rounded at 60% true, no crit.

Mia still wins the offense, and the defense is a bit more even despite Mia being two rounded. This is a bit more even.

1x Halberdier lvl 8 (Javelin)

HP 36, Atk 26, AS 20, Hit 118, Avo 53, DEF 18, RES 13, Crit 15, Ddg 13

Mia 3 rounds with 10/30 crit, still doubling, more crit possibilities yadda yadda. 100% hit. 3 rounded at 17% true, no crit.

Oscar barely pulls off a 3 round, no double. 100% w/ SL, 91.3% w/ SS true. 4 rounded at 37.4% true, no crit.

Oscar barely pulls off a win here if he counters on enemy phase with the Short Spear, though Mia's crit possibility gives her the offensive win on player phase since they both 3 round otherwise. Similar defensively since Mia is facing 20% less true hit than Oscar despite being 3 rounded instead of 4. Like the last one, this is fairly even, but with Mia barely pulling a lead.

1x Lance General lvl 7 (Steel Lance)

HP 37, Atk 30, AS 18, Hit 131, Avo 49, DEF 23, RES 12, Crit 9, Ddg 15

Mia 7/19 rounds this guy with 7/27 crit chance, doubling. 100% hit still. She's barely 2 rounded at 35.7% true, no crit.

Oscar 7 rounds with no crit, no double still. 100% w/SL, 94.4% true. He's 3 rounded at 63.5% true, no crit.

Oscar barely pulls off a lead solely by the fact that he's 3 and not 2 rounded. Of course, there's a slight chance of her getting a level up which will give her just enough HP to be 3 rounded and she also avoids much better, but that's cutting it close. Still, neither are good for this guy. Ike/Titania/Gatrie should handle this.

1x Fire Sage lvl 6 (Elfire)

HP 31, Atk 25, AS 17, Hit 127, Avo 54, DEF 12, RES 15, Crit 8, Ddg 10

Mia 2 rounds with 13/33 crit, doubling. 100% hit. She's 3 rounded at 29.3% true hit, no crit.

Oscar 1 rounds with no crit, also doubling now. 100% w/SL, 90.5% true w/SS. He's 4 rounded at 56.3% true, 1% crit.

Oscar wins offensively and defensively here, though Mia still owns the dude and is less likely to be hit as well.

1x Sniper lvl 6 (Steel Bow, *Coin)

HP 35, Atk 29, AS 19, Hit 135, Avo 61, DEF 16, RES 11, Crit 20, Ddg 13

Mia 2/3 rounds with 10/30 crit chance, doubling. 100% hit. She's 3 rounded at 42.8% true, 2% crit

Oscar 3 rounds with no crit, no double. 99.7% true w/SL, 84.6% true w/SS. He's being 4 rounded at 70% true hit, 2% crit.

Like with the Javelin guy, Oscar has the advantage of being able to counter should he be attacked, but otherwise still isn't doing as well as Mia against this guy. This is also the first time Oscar sees less than 100% displayed with his Steel Lance, and Mia's 100% > Oscar's less-than-100% with either weapon. And yet she still has that nice crit that Oscar never sees.

So Oscar only really wins against enemies they both double. Otherwise, they're even or Mia wins. The problem is, only Sages and the Lance General with the Horseslayer are slow enough for Oscar to double, so he only wins against Sages, and by a very small margin since Mia pwns them in the face as well. Before I continue, how do they fare against the boss considering either make it to him?

1x Silvano lvl 8 (Sniper boss, *Crossbow)

HP 39, Atk 28, AS 21, Hit 149, Avo 45, DEF 18, RES 13, Crit 21, Ddg 3

Mia 3/4 rounds with 20/40 crit, doubling. Still 100% hit. She's 3 rounded at 50.5% true, 3% crit.

Oscar 4 rounds with 8 crit, no double. 100% w/SL, 99% true w/SS. He's 4 rounded at 87.8% true hit, 3% crit.

I'd say Mia pulls off a win here. Note that this is considering neither have gotten a level up, and since Mia starts 5 levels lower and is easily comparable, she's more likely to have already gained a level and be doing slightly better.

So yeah, Mia is already doing better than Oscar and is growing faster to boot. She has innate Vantage which can help her kill an enemy before it can attack her, and she's also the best candidate for Soren's Adept. She easily deserves it because she pretty much doubles every enemy in the game she ever fights and consistently has the highest speed, so giving Adept to her is easily the best way to use it.

But where are they going? Let's check growths and caps.

Mia: Growth-Cap 355% total

HP: 70-40

Str: 45-23

Mag: 15-15

Skl: 60-30

Spd: 65-30

Luck: 35-30

Def: 45-22

Res: 25-17

Oscar: Growth-Cap 335% total

HP: 50-45

Str: 35-25

Mag: 20-15

Skl: 65-24

Spd: 60-24

Luck: 55-30

Def: 30-25

Res: 20-16

She'll be getting HP faster until it caps, strength faster until it caps (which it won't for Oscar), she'll always have higher Skl and Spd as a result of having higher bases than Oscar's caps (lol) and the same growths in the two (+-5%). She loses out a bit in Luck, but her leads in Skill and Speed more than make up for that. And then she grows defense and resistance faster as well. She'll generally be doing better statistically throughout the entire game. A comparable start and a faster growth >> Oscar.

Let's skip to promotion time, likely at the beginning of part 4. Since Oscar had a level lead, I'll have him a level above Mia for this comparison.

Mia: level --/20/1. Vantage/Crit+20/Shove/Astra

HP: 44

Str: 25.85

Mag: 10.95

Skl: 32

Spd: 32

Luck: 22.55

Def: 21.2

Res: 15.25

Oscar: level --/20/2. Canto/Sol

HP: 46.5

Str: 25.15

Mag: 12.8

Skl: 26.65

Spd: 26.6

Luck: 22.95

Def: 21.7

Res: 18.8

I've decided to leave out supports for the time being, I'll get to that later. But, looking at this, Mia's real win is her +6 AS. There are a lot of 23+ AS enemies at this point in the game, so while Mia doubles everything, Oscar doubles maybe half the enemies he faces. She also has that awesome +20 crit boost which is even better with Adept, and a higher mastery skill activation (her 16% to his 13%), as well as her skill being more likely to actually kill the enemy.

Another thing; this is part 4, the part where the Paladin class altogether starts to look a bit rusty. They have trouble in the terrain of 4-2 and 4-5, can barely move in the desert of 4-3, and can't climb ledges as well as getting a movement restriction in 4-4. They can both choose any route, but Mia doesn't get the kind of restrictions Oscar gets. From here, it only goes more in favor for Mia.

Let's take a look at affinities. Mia has Fire, Oscar has Earth. I'll concede that Earth > Fire, but Fire is not a bad affinity in itself, and Mia's avoid is none too shabby anyway. Oscar can support anyone he wants for some awesome avoid, so I think I can get away with having Mia support Nephenee. This takes a couple chapters to be able to start, but the advantage Mia will get here is the +1 (eventually +2) atk she'll get and give, something Nephenee especially needs and closes the gap even faster in the damage difference between Mia and Oscar. She'll also end up with +15 hit (lol) and +8 avoid. Yeah, not as good as a possible +45 by a longshot, but it's good enough for someone like Mia who dodges a lot anyway.

Skill capacity. Mia will always have 5 more than Oscar. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it allows her to use combos like Cancel+Adept, Resolve+Gamble, Wrath+Daunt, and more, and all with Vantage included, all these combos Oscar can't get. Sure, he can take Nullify or something, but that just erases a weakness Mia doesn't even have and is sooner going to Haar anyway. So skill capacity is a point for Mia.

Bonus experience. Granted, neither will be getting a lot, but Mia makes better use of it and doesn't need it as much. At second tier, she has HP, skill, and speed capped at 15-16, so BEXP is put to good use since she only has 4 important stats left. Strength can also cap quicker with this, allowing the others to get some nice boosts if there is extra left over for her, since she does fine in the others anyway. Oscar only normally caps speed and skill before promotion, so BEXP isn't used as well on him, and this doesn't happen until ~17 anyway. And, in fact, he needs it a lot more if he wants to get any decent strength. Third tier levelling is very similar. Not needing BEXP and making better use of it overall gives Mia a point here.

Let's skip ahead to Endgame. I don't even know if this is debatable. Basically, 40 Speed cap >>>>> 32 speed cap. 20% mastery activation (increased through more doubling) >>> 17% activation. Not to mention the fact that Oscar doesn't even reach Mia's strength level until about the time he hits level 20 without BEXP, but it's not likely he'll even get there. Mia, on the other hand, caps strength on average at 12~13, and also caps HP, Skill, Speed, and Defense fairly quickly. Oscar only likely caps Skill, Speed, and Luck, but his caps in all three are worse and his other stats are generally either similar at equivalent levels or worse. She can also weild a Wyrmslayer for the Dragons. The lead here is pretty substantial.

Then there's weapon competition. There's only one Wishblade, and Nephenee/Tanith/Marcia use it better than Oscar (Speed ftw). There's Vague Katti and Alondite for Mia, and her only real competition for them is Zihark and possibly Edward, so she's very likely to get one. She even has less competition throughout the game for weapons. In part 3, Ike has Ettard, so she's the only sword user aside from lolBrom (E weapon level ftl) until Titania and Gatrie promote. Oscar has to compete with the likes of Gatrie, Nephenee, and Haar, and lolBrom when he promotes, and Tanith and Marcia if they end up being used.

She can use a Wyrmslayer to murder Dragonmasters ftw, and there are usually a good deal of them. A few on 3-2, 3-4, 3-7, 3-10, 3-11, and 3-E, and some in part 4. Oscar can use a Horseslayer is he ever gets his hands on one.

I think this shows that Mia > Oscar. Enjoy. ^_^

Edited January 31, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire
Typos

[Lord Raven]

snip

Mia is the hottest character in the game. I'm not denying that.

Oscar looks pretty cool, though.

Mia, level 7 w/ Vantage/Shove/Crit +10 (Steel Sword/Wo Dao) Neutral Bio

HP: 34

Atk: 26/24

Hit: 170/175

Crit: 23/43

AS: 28

Avoid: 89

Dodge: 18

Def: 13

Res: 8

Range: 1

Oscar, level 12 w/Canto (Steel Lance/Short Spear) Neutral Bio

HP: 38

Atk: 30/30

Hit: 157/132

Crit: 11/11

AS: 21

Avoid: 75

Dodge: 18

Def: 17

Res: 13

Range: 1/1~2

Oscar has a 4-6 damage lead, but Mia has +7 AS, pretty good crit, and +14 avoid to partially compensate for lower defensive stats. The only real advantage Oscar has is range, but at the loss of hit. But now we need enemies. (Quote tags for ease of use)

k

snip damage against Swordmaster

You've proven Mia can handle a Swordmaster. Good job.

Now, have fun with her frailty. You said that five of these bastards take down Oscar, right? Mia can only survive three -- and these Swordmasters have the lower end of the attack spectrum as far as I'm aware. So that durability gap thins to two, especially since there are many enemies nearby.

Offensively, Mia wins. Defensively, Oscar wins, though with two healers and not that many enemies, defense isn't a big issue for Mia. Mia = winner.

A similar argument can be argued in Oscar's case, where with a million attackers, neither side needs to worry very much about one rounding. Enemies can be weakened for both of them and fed to them as kills -- having that said, Oscar's Defense is quite blatantly beating Mia's.

1x Warrior lvl 8 (Steel Axe)

HP 40, Atk 33, AS 20, Hit 129, Avo 54, DEF 15, RES 9, Crit 10, Ddg 14

Mia 2-3 rounds with 9/29 crit and still doubles, making 2 rounds with Wo Dao more possible. 100% hit. 2 rounded at 32.4% true, no crit.

2-3 rounds? If you get a Wo Dao critical, maybe. The chance of one Wo Dao critical happening is less than 50% on a double attack, though (.71 * .71 = .5041) so it is unreliable on a double attack. With Wo Dao, she three rounds, much like Oscar would.

Oscar barely pulls off a win here if he counters on enemy phase with the Short Spear, though Mia's crit possibility gives her the offensive win on player phase since they both 3 round otherwise. Similar defensively since Mia is facing 20% less true hit than Oscar despite being 3 rounded instead of 4. Like the last one, this is fairly even, but with Mia barely pulling a lead.

Mia has the upper hand? Both three round, but Oscar at least has his own way of countering on enemy phase -- having 1-2 range >> having only 1 range. Mia, when a 2 range hits her, is not able to fight back until she gets a Wind Sword -- with might on par with an Iron Sword massively hindering her offense. Oscar still does fine with Short Spear.

Oscar barely pulls off a lead solely by the fact that he's 3 and not 2 rounded. Of course, there's a slight chance of her getting a level up which will give her just enough HP to be 3 rounded and she also avoids much better, but that's cutting it close. Still, neither are good for this guy. Ike/Titania/Gatrie should handle this.

You're assuming they're getting a level up by the time we get to the Lance General? EXP in this game is very weak -- I cannot see why you think either Oscar or Mia are getting a level-up here especially since they're not the only two units fielded.

Mia 2 rounds with 13/33 crit, doubling. 100% hit. She's 3 rounded at 29.3% true hit, no crit.

Oscar 1 rounds with no crit, also doubling now. 100% w/SL, 90.5% true w/SS. He's 4 rounded at 56.3% true, 1% crit.

Oscar wins offensively and defensively here, though Mia still owns the dude and is less likely to be hit as well.

Except.. Mia can't counter them on enemy phase.

Mia 2/3 rounds with 10/30 crit chance, doubling. 100% hit. She's 3 rounded at 42.8% true, 2% crit

Oscar 3 rounds with no crit, no double. 99.7% true w/SL, 84.6% true w/SS. He's being 4 rounded at 70% true hit, 2% crit.

Like with the Javelin guy, Oscar has the advantage of being able to counter should he be attacked, but otherwise still isn't doing as well as Mia against this guy. This is also the first time Oscar sees less than 100% displayed with his Steel Lance, and Mia's 100% > Oscar's less-than-100% with either weapon. And yet she still has that nice crit that Oscar never sees.

A 100% advantage is not necessarily > Oscar's 99.7%; I would call them equal. You're adamant about factoring in true hit, therefore the fact that 99.7% is ridiculously close to 100 yields the fact that their hits have a negligible gap. 100 > less than 100, but 99.7 and 100 have a trivial difference between them.

I'd say Mia pulls off a win here. Note that this is considering neither have gotten a level up, and since Mia starts 5 levels lower and is easily comparable, she's more likely to have already gained a level and be doing slightly better.

No, she hasn't. I'm going to go out on a whim and say that I recall Rolf receiving somewhere near 23 EXP per kill as a level 1 unit. This figure will grandly reduce considering we're dealing with much higher level units -- their EXP gain rate will be at a slightly different rate, not different enough to matter. Therefore, if Mia is getting a level-up, Oscar is getting a level-up.

So yeah, Mia is already doing better than Oscar and is growing faster to boot.

Mia is not doing "better" than Oscar. Mia is very frail and these 50-60% shots that 2 or 3 round her will gang up on her, requiring her to stay back and be healed or go forward and die. Or waste Vulnerary turns. Oscar dies in less -- three or four rounds. The best part is, if he uses a Vulnerary he can still move again, and considering his movement in general (not specific to the Prologue), he can easily come back to the group.

She has innate Vantage which can help her kill an enemy before it can attack her

I'm not going to say "wrong" but this is only good for revenge kills. And even then, its activation rate is speed% -- 28% -- and its probability of activation doesn't even go above 50 until a third attack.

Mia: Growth-Cap 355% total

HP: 70-40

Str: 45-23

Mag: 15-15

Skl: 60-30

Spd: 65-30

Luck: 35-30

Def: 45-22

Res: 25-17

Oscar: Growth-Cap 335% total

HP: 50-45

Str: 35-25

Mag: 20-15

Skl: 65-24

Spd: 60-24

Luck: 55-30

Def: 30-25

Res: 20-16

strength faster until it caps (which it won't for Oscar)

Oscar's Skill and Speed cap early enough (72% chance at Level 15 for Skill and 68% chance at Level 17 for Speed -- his Strength is pretty likely to increase at Level 15 seeing as he has max Skill). On top of the pitiful CEXP, since he is close to a level, he doesn't even need very much BEXP to go up a level; he can easily just get a level a chapter and, in turn, receive Strength.

Let's skip to promotion time, likely at the beginning of part 4. Since Oscar had a level lead, I'll have him a level above Mia for this comparison.

I disagree. Oscar deserves about three levels, because their EXP gain rates are not very far apart at all -- I will also assume both their Strength stats maxed for the sake of this comparison because of my BEXP argument earlier.

Mia: level --/20/1. Vantage/Crit+20/Shove/Astra

HP: 44

Str: 26

Mag: 11

Skl: 32

Spd: 32

Luck: 23

Def: 21

Res: 15

Oscar: level --/20/4. Canto/Sol

HP: 46~47

Str: 27

Mag: 13

Skl: 28

Spd: 28

Luck: 23

Def: 22

Res: 19

Mia has +4 AS. We don't have exact numbers on enemy stats, all I will conclude is that Oscar has tied Attack but about 37 more Avoid, which leaves Oscar's defense much higher. Especially because his main support unit, Ike, also posses the earth affinity.

Another thing; this is part 4, the part where the Paladin class altogether starts to look a bit rusty. They have trouble in the terrain of 4-2 and 4-5, can barely move in the desert of 4-3, and can't climb ledges as well as getting a movement restriction in 4-4. They can both choose any route, but Mia doesn't get the kind of restrictions Oscar gets. From here, it only goes more in favor for Mia.

Not quite.

I'm going to go in favor of Ike's route, for both actually. 4-1, he has Ike support and can easily aid Ike down south against the hordes of enemies that arrive. Neither are getting hit very often, considering they both have evasion in the 100s at this point. Mia doesn't have a consistent evasion support -- she can obtain more attack and hit (lol), and some minor evasion unless you decide to support her with an earth affinity. If so, good luck finding one that isn't Tanith or Lucia, or for that matter already in a pair (basically, pick one from Nolan/Volug/Zihark; it grows slowly anyway).

Let's take a look at affinities. Mia has Fire, Oscar has Earth. I'll concede that Earth > Fire, but Fire is not a bad affinity in itself, and Mia's avoid is none too shabby anyway. Oscar can support anyone he wants for some awesome avoid, so I think I can get away with having Mia support Nephenee. This takes a couple chapters to be able to start, but the advantage Mia will get here is the +1 (eventually +2) atk she'll get and give, something Nephenee especially needs and closes the gap even faster in the damage difference between Mia and Oscar. She'll also end up with +15 hit (lol) and +8 avoid. Yeah, not as good as a possible +45 by a longshot, but it's good enough for someone like Mia who dodges a lot anyway.

Oscar's evasion is much, much higher than Mia's if you're going this route. Then we have a lead of about 30 evasion at Part IV if you're going to get away with Nephenee support, and his attack lead is +1. Until we get some actual enemy numbers we can't quantify how well this works for or against either character, however.

Earth >>>>> Fire. Especially considering Oscar has 2 chapters prior to Nephenee's arrival to jumpstart this -- Hell, this 15 initial avoid pretty much exists right when Nephenee comes in.

Skill capacity. Mia will always have 5 more than Oscar. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it allows her to use combos like Cancel+Adept, Resolve+Gamble, Wrath+Daunt, and more, and all with Vantage included, all these combos Oscar can't get. Sure, he can take Nullify or something, but that just erases a weakness Mia doesn't even have and is sooner going to Haar anyway. So skill capacity is a point for Mia.

A very minor point.

Resolve double overkills her already overkill Skill and Speed. She's doubling and evading much anyway, why go more? If anything, there are other, less speedy characters that might want it -- like Boyd. In fact, you aren't even accessing this Resolve for a while; there's one with Tauroneo (switching from the Dawn Brigade, and the Dawn Brigade needs it MUCH more than Mia does) and one with Skrimir. So Resolve on Mia? Maybe in Part IV. But it definitely helps Oscar more than Mia, rather than making Mia more overkilled in already high departments.

Daunt is a pretty useless move, -5% avoid and hit within range. I'm trembling in my boots of how underwhelming that is. And how Wrath would help all that is beyond me - once again adding to overkill that other characters may need for themselves?

See earlier for BEXP.

Let's skip ahead to Endgame. I don't even know if this is debatable. Basically, 40 Speed cap >>>>> 32 speed cap. 20% mastery activation (increased through more doubling) >>> 17% activation. Not to mention the fact that Oscar doesn't even reach Mia's strength level until about the time he hits level 20 without BEXP, but it's not likely he'll even get there. Mia, on the other hand, caps strength on average at 12~13, and also caps HP, Skill, Speed, and Defense fairly quickly. Oscar only likely caps Skill, Speed, and Luck, but his caps in all three are worse and his other stats are generally either similar at equivalent levels or worse. She can also weild a Wyrmslayer for the Dragons. The lead here is pretty substantial.

Then there's weapon competition. There's only one Wishblade, and Nephenee/Tanith/Marcia use it better than Oscar (Speed ftw). There's Vague Katti and Alondite for Mia, and her only real competition for them is Zihark and possibly Edward, so she's very likely to get one. She even has less competition throughout the game for weapons. In part 3, Ike has Ettard, so she's the only sword user aside from lolBrom (E weapon level ftl) until Titania and Gatrie promote. Oscar has to compete with the likes of Gatrie, Nephenee, and Haar, and lolBrom when he promotes, and Tanith and Marcia if they end up being used.

She can use a Wyrmslayer to murder Dragonmasters ftw, and there are usually a good deal of them. A few on 3-2, 3-4, 3-7, 3-10, 3-11, and 3-E, and some in part 4. Oscar can use a Horseslayer is he ever gets his hands on one.

Neither are getting to Level 20, that's a given. However, Mia's probably going to have a hard time getting to Level 12-13, without Oscar taking a 2 or 3 level lead anyway. And even through the endgame, he gains a +45 evade from a powerful unit -- your army commander, in fact -- and still maintains a massive durability lead as a result.

Wyrmslayer is an advantage for her. Something I won't deny. Aside from the fact that she isn't the only sword user that exists -- Zihark and Stefan may want to compete for her endgame spot. Stefan arguably makes a better competition, especially since he comes with rammable stats (27 Str and Skl/Spd in the mid-late 30s) and doesn't require much EXP to go, in a game where EXP is a deficit. That is Mia's competition, and frankly it's a losing battle considering you don't fully have the slots available to have two users of the SS ranked swords. And Zihark has Nolan by his side to compete with, which makes him a better late-game Trueblade than Mia.

Oscar defensively trumps the Seraph Knights anyway (45 evade, and the fact that Oscar actually maintains a level lead over the other three, while Sigrun has shortcomings herself), and Nephenee's the only other person who wants to use a Spear. And, as Mia's support partner, it's either Mia x Nephenee, Stefan + Oscar x Ike, or Oscar x Ike/Nolan x Zihark. The second option gives Ike a bunch of defensive options to fight with, as well as sparing the effort of using Zihark/Nolan as well as an already mediocre support pair (yeah +8 hit/evade and +2 attack <<<<< +45 Evade, considering Oscar already leads attack and they both consistently hit anyway).

Nolan/Zihark is also more defensively fit than Mia/Nephenee; Nolan has Axes and very good caps (35 Speed/40 Strength, though he'll still be somewhere in the 30s) whereas Zihark has a bit more Strength than Mia -- negligible, but this technically makes a male Trueblade better. And there's two instances of Earth support going on in that part too; Oscar x Ike and Nolan x Zihark.

Oscar makes use of the Wishblade. He has little competition as the Ike supporter for the Final Chapter as well. Oscar is quite a bit more entitled to the spot due to his durability, whereas Mia is pretty much roasted by Stefan if you care so much about Sword users in the final chapter.

I think this shows that Mia > Oscar. Enjoy. ^_^

Only in looks. Hottest FE character in the game. Edited January 31, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Florete]

Mia is the hottest character in the game. I'm not denying that.

Oscar looks pretty cool, though.

Alrighty then. Did I win yet?

You've proven Mia can handle a Swordmaster. Good job.

Now, have fun with her frailty. You said that five of these bastards take down Oscar, right? Mia can only survive three -- and these Swordmasters have the lower end of the attack spectrum as far as I'm aware. So that durability gap thins to two, especially since there are many enemies nearby.

Many enemies? From what I recall, you rarely see more than three enemies on your side of the field during any phase, and the likes of Gatrie, Ike, and Titania are the likely ones taking the hits up front. Then when you throw in two healers, durability isn't exactly an issue for either Mia or Oscar.

According to the enemy list, it looks like we only fight about 13 enemies before meeting up with the sub-humans, and they are fairly spread out. "Many" enemies is an overstatement.

A similar argument can be argued in Oscar's case, where with a million attackers, neither side needs to worry very much about one rounding. Enemies can be weakened for both of them and fed to them as kills -- having that said, Oscar's Defense is quite blatantly beating Mia's.

If that's the case, their defense means nothing because they won't even be countered. So this point would be neutral for both of them. But, Mia does more damage in a round than Oscar, so if, say, the dood is lowered to 18-20 health, Mia can kill him where Oscar can't.

1x Warrior lvl 8 (Steel Axe)

HP 40, Atk 33, AS 20, Hit 129, Avo 54, DEF 15, RES 9, Crit 10, Ddg 14

2-3 rounds? If you get a Wo Dao critical, maybe. The chance of one Wo Dao critical happening is less than 50% on a double attack, though (.71 * .71 = .5041) so it is unreliable on a double attack. With Wo Dao, she three rounds, much like Oscar would.

Yes, 2-3 rounds. With Steel Sword, that's 11x2=22 damage per round, 22x2=44 the second round, dead. With Wo Dao, it's 9x2=18 per round, so a three round without a crit, but with a much higher crit rate than Oscar, so she's much more likely to still 2 round.

Mia has the upper hand? Both three round, but Oscar at least has his own way of countering on enemy phase -- having 1-2 range >> having only 1 range. Mia, when a 2 range hits her, is not able to fight back until she gets a Wind Sword -- with might on par with an Iron Sword massively hindering her offense. Oscar still does fine with Short Spear.

Oscar is only countering on enemy phase if he is attacked. Two of your main frontliners, Ike and Gatrie, don't have range (Gatrie can, but likely won't), and Titania might not have a range weapon equipped either. Granted, this is still a negative for Mia because it means she's more likely to be attacked and so is more vulnerable, but I've already conceded that Oscar is more durable, so it's nothing new.

You're assuming they're getting a level up by the time we get to the Lance General? EXP in this game is very weak -- I cannot see why you think either Oscar or Mia are getting a level-up here especially since they're not the only two units fielded.

I did say it was "cutting it close" after all, but yeah, it's pretty unlikely.

No, she hasn't. I'm going to go out on a whim and say that I recall Rolf receiving somewhere near 23 EXP per kill as a level 1 unit. This figure will grandly reduce considering we're dealing with much higher level units -- their EXP gain rate will be at a slightly different rate, not different enough to matter. Therefore, if Mia is getting a level-up, Oscar is getting a level-up.

According to Vykan12, the HM experience gain formula is: (EL=Enemy level, UL=Unit level)

Atk exp = (EL-UL)/2 + 5

Kill exp = Atk exp + (EL-UL) + 15

The enemies average ~level 7, so Mia would gain:

atk exp = (7-7)/2 + 5 = 5 exp

Kill exp = 5 + (7-7) + 15 = 20 exp.

Oscar shall get:

atk exp = (7-12)/2 + 5 = 2.5 exp (IDK how it rounds)

Kill exp = 2.5 + (7-12) +15 = 15 exp

Mia gets 2-3 more for a battle, 5 more a kill. She needs to kill 5 level 7 enemies to level up, Oscar needs to kill 7. Neither are exactly likely to level up before reaching the boss, but Mia is more likely to do so.

Mia is not doing "better" than Oscar. Mia is very frail and these 50-60% shots that 2 or 3 round her will gang up on her, requiring her to stay back and be healed or go forward and die. Or waste Vulnerary turns. Oscar dies in less -- three or four rounds. The best part is, if he uses a Vulnerary he can still move again, and considering his movement in general (not specific to the Prologue), he can easily come back to the group.

50-60%? She usually faces <50%, an average of ~37% true hit from enemies, and there aren't enough enemies to "gang up" on her anyway. Oscar can take more hits, but he gets hit more often as well, since he faces >55% true hit from almost every enemy, usually somewhere in the 60's. Yes, his durability is better, but it's a fairly minor lead and she generally has an offensive lead on him as well.

I'm not going to say "wrong" but this is only good for revenge kills. And even then, its activation rate is speed% -- 28% -- and its probability of activation doesn't even go above 50 until a third attack.

It's a small advantage, but having it > not having it. I'll admit I only tend to notice it later in the game when she can combine it with any of Cancel/Adept/Astra/Critical and kill an enemy before it can attack.

Oscar's Skill and Speed cap early enough (72% chance at Level 15 for Skill and 68% chance at Level 17 for Speed -- his Strength is pretty likely to increase at Level 15 seeing as he has max Skill). On top of the pitiful CEXP, since he is close to a level, he doesn't even need very much BEXP to go up a level; he can easily just get a level a chapter and, in turn, receive Strength.

Well then, Mia can do the same thing. For Skill, 54% for capping at 13, 71% of capping at 14 (average, pretty much). For Speed, a 42% for level 9, 72% at 10. And then HP, with 55% at 15 and 73% at 16. So Mia can have 2 stats capped before Oscar caps any and 3 stats capped by the time he caps a single stat. Therefore, using your own method, Mia can grow technically better (2-3 stats capped as opposed to 1-2) and needs less BEXP/CEXP to grow a level than Oscar. This makes her pretty likely to cap Strength and possibly Defense (if we have enough BEXP) and grow some more Luck as well, maybe Resistance. And once she caps strength (using this method, ~16-17) she really doesn't need anymore.

However, even through this method, Oscar is not likely to cap Strength at all. BEXP favors higher growths, and at 17 with Skill and Speed capped, he still has HP and Luck with higher growths and defense with a very similar growth. On average, he has 21.75 strength at 17, so he'd need to get strength every level in order to hit his second tier cap from this point.

In conclusion, using less and not needing it as much anyway >>> whatever Oscar's doing with it.

I disagree. Oscar deserves about three levels, because their EXP gain rates are not very far apart at all -- I will also assume both their Strength stats maxed for the sake of this comparison because of my BEXP argument earlier.

I do believe I've just shown that it is fairly unlikely for Oscar to have capped his Strength. I also don't agree with 3 levels; 2 maybe, but the experience gain isn't quite as pitiful as you make it out to be

Mia has +4 AS. We don't have exact numbers on enemy stats, all I will conclude is that Oscar has tied Attack but about 37 more Avoid, which leaves Oscar's defense much higher. Especially because his main support unit, Ike, also posses the earth affinity.

We do have normal mode stats, and even there some of the enemies are sporting 23-25 AS, so while Mia is definitely doubling them even in hard mode, Oscar might be having some trouble if he's been even slightly screwed. At level 20/3, he has a 66% chance of having 27 or less AS.

Not quite.

I'm going to go in favor of Ike's route, for both actually. 4-1, he has Ike support and can easily aid Ike down south against the hordes of enemies that arrive. Neither are getting hit very often, considering they both have evasion in the 100s at this point. Mia doesn't have a consistent evasion support -- she can obtain more attack and hit (lol), and some minor evasion unless you decide to support her with an earth affinity. If so, good luck finding one that isn't Tanith or Lucia, or for that matter already in a pair (basically, pick one from Nolan/Volug/Zihark; it grows slowly anyway).

As you've said, both have very good evasion at this rate anyway, so they focus more on offense than defense. Mia is getting power from her support and is doubling more often, so her offense is going to be better than Oscar's here.

And if we go Ike's route, we have 4-4, where Oscar is less likely to be near Ike all the time due to ledges that he can't climb.

Oscar's evasion is much, much higher than Mia's if you're going this route. Then we have a lead of about 30 evasion at Part IV if you're going to get away with Nephenee support, and his attack lead is +1. Until we get some actual enemy numbers we can't quantify how well this works for or against either character, however.

Where is Oscar getting +1 atk lead from? If he goes EarthxEarth with Ike, he only gets avoid, yet Mia is getting at least +2 atk no matter where she goes, and she usually has similar or higher strength as well.

A very minor point.

Resolve double overkills her already overkill Skill and Speed. She's doubling and evading much anyway, why go more? If anything, there are other, less speedy characters that might want it -- like Boyd. In fact, you aren't even accessing this Resolve for a while; there's one with Tauroneo (switching from the Dawn Brigade, and the Dawn Brigade needs it MUCH more than Mia does) and one with Skrimir. So Resolve on Mia? Maybe in Part IV. But it definitely helps Oscar more than Mia, rather than making Mia more overkilled in already high departments.

"Minor" is an understatement. The best skill combo Oscar can get is something like Vantage+Cancel or a single 15 capacity+...Miracle(ROFL). Mia can take the former and stack 15 more onto it (Adept, Resolve, Wrath, etc.). And if Mia is just overkill with Resolve, it's a point for her anyway because she obviously doesn't need it to be good, it just makes her even better.

Daunt is a pretty useless move, -5% avoid and hit within range. I'm trembling in my boots of how underwhelming that is. And how Wrath would help all that is beyond me - once again adding to overkill that other characters may need for themselves?

Once again, not needing it only shows how good she already is. Daunt was just an example anyway. And it should be noted that Wrath would boost her crit into the 60's and 70's, higher later in the game, which is better than most characters can do and gives her a massive offense lead over Oscar.

See earlier for BEXP.

Yes, thank you for that. ^_^

Neither are getting to Level 20, that's a given. However, Mia's probably going to have a hard time getting to Level 12-13, without Oscar taking a 2 or 3 level lead anyway. And even through the endgame, he gains a +45 evade from a powerful unit -- your army commander, in fact -- and still maintains a massive durability lead as a result.

But here's a catch: If Oscar is supporting Ike, that obviously means he went Ike's route. However, Mia wasn't so restricted. She can have easily gone to Tibarn's route and would end up at least at the same level as Oscar, very possibly higher than him because of all the laguz enemies. Also, Oscar loses this bonus in 4-E-2. One map, but it's worth noting since Mia won't lose her support here.

Wyrmslayer is an advantage for her. Something I won't deny. Aside from the fact that she isn't the only sword user that exists -- Zihark and Stefan may want to compete for her endgame spot. Stefan arguably makes a better competition, especially since he comes with rammable stats (27 Str and Skl/Spd in the mid-late 30s) and doesn't require much EXP to go, in a game where EXP is a deficit. That is Mia's competition, and frankly it's a losing battle considering you don't fully have the slots available to have two users of the SS ranked swords. And Zihark has Nolan by his side to compete with, which makes him a better late-game Trueblade than Mia.

Let me address one at a time:

Stefan. Stefan joins in 4-3 with virtually nothing to do and no support, not to mention a terrible affinity. Mia can easily pass up him (level 20/5-6 Mia already beats Stefan almost everywhere, most notably Strength) and again, has Tibarn's route as a possibility.

Zihark. Mia has about a ten level lead over Zihark joins and almost always leads offensively. I'll admit he's competition with his EarthxEarth, but she's easier to use than he is at this point.

The only others Mia has to compete with are Edward and Lucia (both inferior), Meg (lmao), Renning(lol), and Makalov (rofl). I'd call it fairly easy for her to get 1 of 2 SS swords.

Oscar defensively trumps the Seraph Knights anyway (45 evade, and the fact that Oscar actually maintains a level lead over the other three, while Sigrun has shortcomings herself), and Nephenee's the only other person who wants to use a Spear. And, as Mia's support partner, it's either Mia x Nephenee, Stefan + Oscar x Ike, or Oscar x Ike/Nolan x Zihark. The second option gives Ike a bunch of defensive options to fight with, as well as sparing the effort of using Zihark/Nolan as well as an already mediocre support pair (yeah +8 hit/evade and +2 attack <<<<< +45 Evade, considering Oscar already leads attack and they both consistently hit anyway).

You're conveniently leaving out Speed. Oscar has a 32 speed cap, and there are a good deal of endgame enemies sporting 29-30 AS (and that's normal mode, btw). Nephenee and Marcia are almost definitely able to double them (a few have 31 AS, which Neph can't double) and Tanith at least has the chance to reach there, plus she has her sexy Earth support built up by now anyway. I won't shame myself mentioning Sigrun, but I don't know why you'd choose supportless Stefan over two supporting characters that are just as good or better anyway. Zihark I already addressed.

Nolan/Zihark is also more defensively fit than Mia/Nephenee; Nolan has Axes and very good caps (35 Speed/40 Strength, though he'll still be somewhere in the 30s) whereas Zihark has a bit more Strength than Mia -- negligible, but this technically makes a male Trueblade better. And there's two instances of Earth support going on in that part too; Oscar x Ike and Nolan x Zihark.

Good luck having Nolan reach that strength cap. He doesn't even naturally hit it at 20/20/20, so he definitely won't have it anytime soon. And Zihark is actually a lot less likely to hit his strength cap entirely. A cap only matters if you can reach it, and he only barely caps it at 20/20. Mia caps it at 20/12 on average. With her +2 atk support, she'll always have better offense than Zihark at this point in the game.

Oscar makes use of the Wishblade. He has little competition as the Ike supporter for the Final Chapter as well. Oscar is quite a bit more entitled to the spot due to his durability, whereas Mia is pretty much roasted by Stefan if you care so much about Sword users in the final chapter.

Nephenee, Marcia, and Tanith all say hi. Other competition includes Gatrie, Tauroneo, Fiona, Aran, Danved, Sigrun, and Geoffrey. Yeah, they're all less likely than Oscar (though even Fiona is likely better than Oscar by the time she gets to endgame if she's been used) but it's more competition than Mia's got, the former three using Wishblade better than him. Supporting Ike doesn't entitle him to it.

And another funny thing, Mia's durability > Stefan's. At only 20/5, she has better Luck, Resistance, and Defense, practically the same Speed, a bit less HP, and a support. It gets better from there, since she also has an offensive lead. That's considering she's only 20/5 when they get to compare, mind you. She pretty much owns him all around at equivalent levels with the exception of 5 HP.

So Mia wins in looks and ability. Awesome.

[Lord Raven]

just letting you know, I don't concede but I'm not feeling that well so don't expect much of a reply soon..

[Florete]

Not well as in sick? If so, it's fine, take your time.

[Lord Raven]

Not quite sick, it's emotional stuff

[Lord Raven]

back and bamfing it up

Alrighty then. Did I win yet?

Not quite, I just can't be bothered to argue it. Besides, I agree anyway.

Many enemies? From what I recall, you rarely see more than three enemies on your side of the field during any phase, and the likes of Gatrie, Ike, and Titania are the likely ones taking the hits up front. Then when you throw in two healers, durability isn't exactly an issue for either Mia or Oscar.

Then they're tied. No advantage here.

According to the enemy list, it looks like we only fight about 13 enemies before meeting up with the sub-humans, and they are fairly spread out. "Many" enemies is an overstatement.

Then neither are experiencing much offense. They're tied again.

If that's the case, their defense means nothing because they won't even be countered. So this point would be neutral for both of them. But, Mia does more damage in a round than Oscar, so if, say, the dood is lowered to 18-20 health, Mia can kill him where Oscar can't.

Lets see..

Oscar, 21 AS 30/34 Attack (Steel [Great]Lance, Short Spear)

Mia, 28 AS 26 Attack (Steel Sword)

There's the argument where Oscar could use the Greatlance and Gatrie can use the Steel Lance, and I'm also going to use that.

Gatrie's offense trumps Oscar's, Steel Lance or not. He is two rounding regardless of his lance (read the numbers down) and it makes a difference for Oscar. Therefore, Oscar can make great use of the Steel Greatlance; it is a waste on Gatrie otherwise.

I'll specify when Oscar will need the Greatlance, however.

Swordmasters have 33 HP and 15 defense, 10 res.

Ike has 36 attack, he does 21 damage leaving them with 12 HP. Oscar and Mia can both steal the kill.

Titania, 40 Attack. Does 25 damage, both steal the kill.

Soren, 29 Attack, 19 damage. Both steal the kill.

Boyd, 33 Attack, 18 damage. Both steal the kill.

Shinon, 31 Attack. 16 damage. Both can steal the kill (Greatlance Oscar).

Gatrie, 35/39 attack. 20/24 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Warriors. 15 Defense, 9 Resistance, 39-40 HP.

Ike kills in one round.

Titania does 25 damage. Both steal the kill.

Soren does 20 damage. Oscar can kill with the Greatlance, also in accordance with enemy stats; Mia kills anyway.

Boyd does 18 damage. Mia has a kill over Oscar.

Shinon does 32 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Gatrie, 20/24 damage. See Soren.

Halberdiers. 18 Defense, 13 Resistance, 36 HP.

Ike kills in one round or does 18 damage dependent on attack speed. In which case, Mia does 8 x2 (equals 16) and Oscar does 12/16 damage. Both equate to two more rounds.

Titania does 22 damage. Both can steal the kill (Greatlance Oscar).

Soren does 16 damage. Both require two rounds to kill.

Boyd does 15 damage. Both require two rounds to kill.

Shinon does 26 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Gatrie does 17/21 damage. Mia can steal the kill if it's Greatlance Gatrie, however both take two rounds if it's Steel Lance Gatrie. This is the only thing that can be held against Oscar for use of the Greatlance; otherwise, Gatrie deals with everything else nearly the same.

Generals. 23 Defense, 37 HP.

Oscar does 7/11 damage to this thing, Mia does 2 x2 (at most, in both cases). Oscar, without doubling, is doing 3/7 more damage per hit than Mia. Sword General is the same way.

Oscar also has doubling potential against certain ones.

Fire Sage. 12 Def, 15 Resistance, 31 HP.

Ike kills in one round.

Titania kills in one round.

Soren does 14 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Boyd does 21 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Shinon kills in one round.

Gatrie does 23/27 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Sniper. 16 Def, 13 Resistance, 35 HP.

Ike kills in one round.

Titania does 24 damage. Oscar and Mia can both steal the kill.

Soren does 13 damage. Both require two rounds, Oscar has the option to counter on enemy phase.

Boyd does 17 damage. Both can steal the kill (Greatlance Oscar).

Shinon does 30 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Gatrie does 19/23 damage. Both can steal the kill.

Mia wins out on three more situations (two with Warriors, one with Halberdiers).

The gap between points is stuff I agree with.

Mia gets 2-3 more for a battle, 5 more a kill. She needs to kill 5 level 7 enemies to level up, Oscar needs to kill 7. Neither are exactly likely to level up before reaching the boss, but Mia is more likely to do so.

You do not need to continue after "neither is going to level up." It's superfluous information afterwards, because it's a mutual handicap between them; the lack of EXP gain. Even if he requires 2 more kills, he's still just as likely to get them as Mia is going from the above info.

50-60%? She usually faces <50%, an average of ~37% true hit from enemies, and there aren't enough enemies to "gang up" on her anyway. Oscar can take more hits, but he gets hit more often as well, since he faces >55% true hit from almost every enemy, usually somewhere in the 60's. Yes, his durability is better, but it's a fairly minor lead and she generally has an offensive lead on him as well.

Is true hit even proven to be in this game? "Tests" matter shit all because unless we have a hold of the actual game data, we cannot conclude if it's true especially since the entirety of hit rate all comes down to chance. And everything is different for everyone in chance, therefore making any "tests" irrelevant.

In the case that true hit does not exist, that's probably a kick in the ovaries right there considering how she is avoiding attacks 20% more times, but is taking much more damage. In which case, Oscar is winning durability in Prologue-3.

It's a small advantage, but having it > not having it. I'll admit I only tend to notice it later in the game when she can combine it with any of Cancel/Adept/Astra/Critical and kill an enemy before it can attack.

Having it > not having it is stupid, it's like saying that having 3000 attack speed in this game >> 300 when both double. Vantage matters very little early on because of the lack of situations where its usefulness exists, and even then it only occurs 28% of the time. If there are situations that exist, it mainly consists of bringing enemies down to a low level in HP and Mia getting that 28% chance to activate + the enemies actually being at low HP. According to your calculations and mind, this doesn't really apply very often.

Having an advantage that is useful and used is good. Like 1-2 range at the start vs just 1 range. Having an advantage that is never put to use? Thumbs down. That's Vantage, in this case.

Well then, Mia can do the same thing. For Skill, 54% for capping at 13, 71% of capping at 14 (average, pretty much). For Speed, a 42% for level 9, 72% at 10. And then HP, with 55% at 15 and 73% at 16. So Mia can have 2 stats capped before Oscar caps any and 3 stats capped by the time he caps a single stat. Therefore, using your own method, Mia can grow technically better (2-3 stats capped as opposed to 1-2) and needs less BEXP/CEXP to grow a level than Oscar. This makes her pretty likely to cap Strength and possibly Defense (if we have enough BEXP) and grow some more Luck as well, maybe Resistance. And once she caps strength (using this method, ~16-17) she really doesn't need anymore.

Um, what? So Mia has a high cap rate. Whoop-de-do. BEXP makes it better.

Then there's the argument that you shouldn't buff up what's already ahead. It's superfluous, and assuming Mia and Oscar are both used, giving Oscar more BEXP > giving Mia more because

- it guarantees his lower stats increase

- it raises team efficiency more, as opposed to Mia keeping it at a very stagnant level.

Oscar gains less CEXP than Mia, which you proved, and he's not getting very many level ups in the time between his base and when you can use BEXP. And when you have skill capped, then potentially Speed, at this point will his Strength be viable to grow. Also at this point, you can get him like 80 or so EXP then BEXP the last 20. It does not waste very much BEXP and it allows you more wiggle room for CEXP.

However, even through this method, Oscar is not likely to cap Strength at all. BEXP favors higher growths, and at 17 with Skill and Speed capped, he still has HP and Luck with higher growths and defense with a very similar growth. On average, he has 21.75 strength at 17, so he'd need to get strength every level in order to hit his second tier cap from this point.

Higher growth in Strength than Defense, for one.

Strength is not guaranteed his third stat, but it has a good shot at becoming such.

In conclusion, using less and not needing it as much anyway >>> whatever Oscar's doing with it.

Au contraire.

Oscar makes use of BEXP to be pretty good. Mia does not. If two units become equal because of something almost no one else needs, then the two units are equal, and effectively proving no one else needs it allows the argument that "he needs it, therefore he is entitled" to hold some water.

Having that said, from a quick glance only Ike (for his speed/resistance), Haar (Speed), and Soren (Speed) will need it most. He's not competing with much, at all. Also considering how Soren will require less BEXP to gain levels and CEXP to get to a level where he won't need much BEXP (if that makes sense), Soren won't need it as much.

Ike dominates either way, something I think we can both agree on. He dominates more with Speed, but Oscar is definitely more entitled if he needs help.

Haar has a good chance of capping skill and defense early, and his Speed grows decently (less than his Strength, just as much as his HP and slightly less than Luck) therefore he doesn't need much either. Especially since Haar has many other leads on Oscar that a couple points of Speed don't make a difference.

I do believe I've just shown that it is fairly unlikely for Oscar to have capped his Strength. I also don't agree with 3 levels; 2 maybe, but the experience gain isn't quite as pitiful as you make it out to be

I know it's personal experience, but I could only get five units past level 20 from the mercenaries because I focused all my attention on those five. Mist isn't included, even though she passed L20. I'm pretty sure it's that pitiful.

I also want to mention, Oscar can promote in 9 levels, Mia takes like 14 to promote. Those 6 levels on an already EXP raped gain makes a difference.

We do have normal mode stats, and even there some of the enemies are sporting 23-25 AS, so while Mia is definitely doubling them even in hard mode, Oscar might be having some trouble if he's been even slightly screwed. At level 20/3, he has a 66% chance of having 27 or less AS.

Mia is L20 and Oscar has a 26% chance or so of activating Sol.

As you've said, both have very good evasion at this rate anyway, so they focus more on offense than defense.

Ike and Oscar, not Ike and Mia.

And if we go Ike's route, we have 4-4, where Oscar is less likely to be near Ike all the time due to ledges that he can't climb.

Have Ike go right with Oscar then. There are many enemies there, and Tormod/etc can easily come down. They're safer that way anyway especially considering Ike and Oscar aren't the only units in the chapter.

Where is Oscar getting +1 atk lead from? If he goes EarthxEarth with Ike, he only gets avoid, yet Mia is getting at least +2 atk no matter where she goes, and she usually has similar or higher strength as well.

Math fail. I was thinking FE3 where spears were 2 more attack than swords.

"Minor" is an understatement. The best skill combo Oscar can get is something like Vantage+Cancel or a single 15 capacity+...Miracle(ROFL). Mia can take the former and stack 15 more onto it (Adept, Resolve, Wrath, etc.). And if Mia is just overkill with Resolve, it's a point for her anyway because she obviously doesn't need it to be good, it just makes her even better.

It's not a point if she doesn't need something. It's already a point that she has high enough Speed/Skill, it's irrelevant if she doesn't need Resolve.

She shouldn't be getting Resolve anyway. Chars like Oscar (lol), Gatrie, Sanaki, Micaiah with low speed scores or caps need it much more so they can be more viable in play, instead of making someone a lot more viable than they already can be when their current ability pans through just fine. The people who need Resolve don't necessarily need it either, but it's less entitled to someone like Mia than someone like Oscar. In which case, Oscar does in fact have a better chance of getting Resolve.

The rest are chancy moves. And even then, Oscar takes 5 capacity for Canto, which bolsters his defense further because it allows him to go up to a unit, attack, then retreat. Or attack then further his movement because he still has some remaining. It's worth it, especially since Canto activates all of the time (provided his movement isn't maxed everytime you move him) whereas Vantage and Cancel and shit doesn't.

Once again, not needing it only shows how good she already is. Daunt was just an example anyway. And it should be noted that Wrath would boost her crit into the 60's and 70's, higher later in the game, which is better than most characters can do and gives her a massive offense lead over Oscar.

Wrath should boost Oscar into the 50s and 60s (bond supports with Boyd, potentially Ike) as well which is only 10% lower.

But here's a catch: If Oscar is supporting Ike, that obviously means he went Ike's route. However, Mia wasn't so restricted. She can have easily gone to Tibarn's route and would end up at least at the same level as Oscar, very possibly higher than him because of all the laguz enemies. Also, Oscar loses this bonus in 4-E-2. One map, but it's worth noting since Mia won't lose her support here.

And? He's doing damn adequately, especially since he makes Ike go from semi permeable to invincible and he, himself, takes some of that invincibility for himself, so liberality isn't much of a point at all considering they all have decent output.

Stefan. Stefan joins in 4-3 with virtually nothing to do and no support, not to mention a terrible affinity. Mia can easily pass up him (level 20/5-6 Mia already beats Stefan almost everywhere, most notably Strength) and again, has Tibarn's route as a possibility.

And another funny thing, Mia's durability > Stefan's. At only 20/5, she has better Luck, Resistance, and Defense, practically the same Speed, a bit less HP, and a support. It gets better from there, since she also has an offensive lead. That's considering she's only 20/5 when they get to compare, mind you. She pretty much owns him all around at equivalent levels with the exception of 5 HP.

You might get a kick out of this.

Level HP   Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
8	 53.0 27.0 7.0  37.0 36.0 20.0 21.0 16.0
20/5  46.8 27.0 11.5 34.4 34.6 23.9 22.7 16.2
20/6  47.5 27.5 11.7 35.0 35.2 24.3 23.0 16.5

Are you joking? Stefan's Def is only 2 points lower, his luck is only four points lower (and his evade is only two lower, seeing as he has 1 more AS) and his resistance is a fraction of a point lower. With much higher HP, 3 more Skill, and etc. Sure Mia may have a fire support, but jesus that's not much better than a Heaven support. Both are terrible affinities, and Mia's attack lead either matters nil or matters slightly depending on enemy stats, which is something that I have no clue of.

Someone didn't do the research. Lalala.

In which case, Stefan is a hell of a lot easier to use (Mia requires much more EXP) for essentially the same tradeoff.

Zihark. Mia has about a ten level lead over Zihark joins and almost always leads offensively. I'll admit he's competition with his EarthxEarth, but she's easier to use than he is at this point.

Zihark/Volug is easily capable of soloing chapter 3-13, and even if they probably won't, Zihark can get to L15 where he has 116 Avoid (compared to Mia's 84) and 4 less Strength, 2 less Speed etc. Zihark/Nolan is pretty much the same, btw, and more viable for final chapter.

The only others Mia has to compete with are Edward and Lucia (both inferior), Meg (lmao), Renning(lol), and Makalov (rofl). I'd call it fairly easy for her to get 1 of 2 SS swords.

In Lucia's defense, her breasts are bigger and her hair is somewhat sexier.

In Renning's defense, well, he was drugged for at least four years.

Other than that, I agree.

You're conveniently leaving out Speed. Oscar has a 32 speed cap, and there are a good deal of endgame enemies sporting 29-30 AS (and that's normal mode, btw). Nephenee and Marcia are almost definitely able to double them (a few have 31 AS, which Neph can't double) and Tanith at least has the chance to reach there, plus she has her sexy Earth support built up by now anyway. I won't shame myself mentioning Sigrun, but I don't know why you'd choose supportless Stefan over two supporting characters that are just as good or better anyway. Zihark I already addressed.

Tanith has bow weakness. There's a double bow user in this chapter, and a blizzard tome and some other bow users. I'd agree that she's on equal footing with Oscar however, considering how Tanith's support partner is still up in the air whereas Oscar's has been a solid Ike since 3-2 or something.

I doubt they have 29-30 AS either. Personal experience on normal mode says that Oscar can double a fair bit with 32 speed. If not, then he has Resolve, and the others that make use of it don't really have his support with Ike handy, so he can be a better candidate for it than, say, Gatrie. No one else needs it except mages, and they're pretty much his only competition for Resolve. There's two Resolves anyway.

Good luck having Nolan reach that strength cap. He doesn't even naturally hit it at 20/20/20, so he definitely won't have it anytime soon. And Zihark is actually a lot less likely to hit his strength cap entirely. A cap only matters if you can reach it, and he only barely caps it at 20/20. Mia caps it at 20/12 on average. With her +2 atk support, she'll always have better offense than Zihark at this point in the game.

though he'll be somewhere in the 30s

~ something I said in that post

On top of this, Urvan has just as much power as the Vague Katti whereas Nolan's average Strength (probably going to be around 33 or something) is still higher than Mia's 31. And Nolan's 35 speed cap still lets him double. At best it's equal, and it can probably favor Nolan because Nolan's defense has a win (more HP, more evade).

Zihark, on the other hand, has a defensive option that still makes him viable.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Nathan Graves

[Florete]

Then they're tied. No advantage here.

Then neither are experiencing much offense. They're tied again.

Sounds good.

There's the argument where Oscar could use the Greatlance and Gatrie can use the Steel Lance, and I'm also going to use that.

Gatrie's offense trumps Oscar's, Steel Lance or not. He is two rounding regardless of his lance (read the numbers down) and it makes a difference for Oscar. Therefore, Oscar can make great use of the Steel Greatlance; it is a waste on Gatrie otherwise.

But here's the issue with that; Gatrie doesn't double anything in this chapter, so dealing a lot of damage is what is good for him. It's not so much helping him kill, as you pointed out that he still two-rounds even with the Steel Lance, but the 4 damage difference can help someone else on the team kill the enemy. And I don't mean just these two, I mean anyone who might be used, like Mist or Rolf or Soren.

In any case, it's not making Oscar better offensively since Mia can still kill anything he can. It just makes them even more even on their joining chapter.

Is true hit even proven to be in this game? "Tests" matter shit all because unless we have a hold of the actual game data, we cannot conclude if it's true especially since the entirety of hit rate all comes down to chance. And everything is different for everyone in chance, therefore making any "tests" irrelevant.

According to this it's very likely, and from transitioning from a 1 RN game to this one, it truly does feel like 2 RN's, if that matters to you. Besides, it helps you as much as it helps me. It's giving Mia better avoid and Oscar better base accuracy.

In the case that true hit does not exist, that's probably a kick in the ovaries right there considering how she is avoiding attacks 20% more times, but is taking much more damage. In which case, Oscar is winning durability in Prologue-3.

As I just said, it would also hurt Oscar. He sees as low as 72% displayed hit with the Short Spear, and only at neutral biorythm. If Biorythm isn't in his favor, he can have a lot of problems hitting, whereas Mia's accuracy is still plenty good and as you have already conceded, durability isn't a big issue for either since there aren't many enemies anyway.

Having it > not having it is stupid, it's like saying that having 3000 attack speed in this game >> 300 when both double. Vantage matters very little early on because of the lack of situations where its usefulness exists, and even then it only occurs 28% of the time. If there are situations that exist, it mainly consists of bringing enemies down to a low level in HP and Mia getting that 28% chance to activate + the enemies actually being at low HP. According to your calculations and mind, this doesn't really apply very often.

If I were to choose to have Vantage or to not have Vantage, I would choose to have it since there is no downside of having it. And I believe I pointed out that it isn't too useful early on, but mainly useful later when she can stack it with things like Adept, Cancel, Astra, etc. As long as it activates, it starts to give her pretty good chances to at least activate something else that will prevent the enemy from even attacking her on the enemy phase.

Having an advantage that is useful and used is good. Like 1-2 range at the start vs just 1 range. Having an advantage that is never put to use? Thumbs down. That's Vantage, in this case.

Never put to use? That's laughable. Let's see some possibilities for it after she promotes (The time it will start being very useful):

A level 20/1 Mia has 32 Speed, 32% of activating Vantage, about 1/3 of the time. Some other things she might be able to do with it:

Critical: With a no crit weapon, she has base crit of 36% before factoring in enemy Luck. With a Killing Edge, that can boost as high as 66%, meaning she can usually see >50% crit chances. Most enemies will be killed by a critical, so if she does this with Vantage, no enemy attack. If she has Wrath or Resolve activated, the enemy won't stand a chance (not likely a good idea seeing as she'll be at low HP, but it can help her out)

Adept: A 32% chance at 20/1. It's just two opportunities instead of one to activate something else that will stop any enemy in its tracks.

Cancel: 32% chance at 20/1. Self-explanatory.

Disarm: 16% chance at 20/1. Also self-explanatory.

Astra: 16% chance at 20/1. 5 times instead of 3 times like a critical, and 5 chances to Cancel if it somehow doesn't kill.

Basically, Vantage can be stacked with any of these to increase her overall durability, and her chances of activating only get higher (Anything that was 32% reaches up to 40% and anything at 16% reaches 20%).

As for Oscar's 2 range, that's an advantage for 2 maps only, and a minor one at that as has already been explained. Vantage forever > a 2 map advantage. The way you described it made it sound like Vantage is a point against her. I hope that isn't what you meant.

Um, what? So Mia has a high cap rate. Whoop-de-do. BEXP makes it better.

Then there's the argument that you shouldn't buff up what's already ahead. It's superfluous, and assuming Mia and Oscar are both used, giving Oscar more BEXP > giving Mia more because

- it guarantees his lower stats increase

- it raises team efficiency more, as opposed to Mia keeping it at a very stagnant level.

How is this anything but a point in Mia's favor? You're saying Oscar needs BEXP to be good while Mia doesn't, it just makes her even better. And you didn't refute the fact that she actually makes better use of it with her higher cap rate.

Oscar gains less CEXP than Mia, which you proved, and he's not getting very many level ups in the time between his base and when you can use BEXP. And when you have skill capped, then potentially Speed, at this point will his Strength be viable to grow. Also at this point, you can get him like 80 or so EXP then BEXP the last 20. It does not waste very much BEXP and it allows you more wiggle room for CEXP.

Yeah, and Mia can do this as well to cap Strength faster and get better Defense and Luck, possibly Resistance. But as we've both agreed, Mia doesn't really need it at all. Oscar does. His problem, though, is that he's not guaranteed to get Strength. He has two higher growths (50% HP, 55% Luck) and another very similar growth (30% defense). He's not getting Strength every BEXP level in most cases.

Back to Mia, once she's viable for BEXP, Strength is her highest growth (45%), Defense #2 (40%), and Luck next (35%), with only Resistance (25%) and lolMagic (15%) left. She has more capped and less need for BEXP altogether, but more likely to get what she needs from it. That's good.

Higher growth in Strength than Defense, for one.

Strength is not guaranteed his third stat, but it has a good shot at becoming such.

5% chance isn't much. A good shot, but not nearly as likely as it is for Mia, who's almost guaranteed to get it.

Oscar makes use of BEXP to be pretty good. Mia does not. If two units become equal because of something almost no one else needs, then the two units are equal, and effectively proving no one else needs it allows the argument that "he needs it, therefore he is entitled" to hold some water.

Oscar makes use of BEXP to be pretty good. Mia makes use of BEXP to be even better than she needs to be. The point is Mia's.

Having that said, from a quick glance only Ike (for his speed/resistance), Haar (Speed), and Soren (Speed) will need it most. He's not competing with much, at all. Also considering how Soren will require less BEXP to gain levels and CEXP to get to a level where he won't need much BEXP (if that makes sense), Soren won't need it as much.

Speed isn't the only thing to be gained from BEXP. Shinon can use it for more Strength and Defense, Gatrie for Skill and Resistance, Nephenee for Strength, Luck, and Defense, Boyd for Skill, Speed, and Defense, etc. Almost anyone on the team can make us of it. He's effectively competing with everyone on the team for it, almost like a multi-use stat-booster.

Ike dominates either way, something I think we can both agree on. He dominates more with Speed, but Oscar is definitely more entitled if he needs help.

Being entitled to it doesn't change the fact that he needs it and Mia doesn't. If Mia weren't good enough without it, the point would be neutral, but that's not the case as you have conceded.

Haar has a good chance of capping skill and defense early, and his Speed grows decently (less than his Strength, just as much as his HP and slightly less than Luck) therefore he doesn't need much either. Especially since Haar has many other leads on Oscar that a couple points of Speed don't make a difference.

This point hardly matters because it's already been shown that Oscar has tough competition for BEXP as it is. Haar is just another competitor.

I know it's personal experience, but I could only get five units past level 20 from the mercenaries because I focused all my attention on those five. Mist isn't included, even though she passed L20. I'm pretty sure it's that pitiful.

By part 4, you mean? No lie, but with effective use of two Paragons, I was able to get Soren, Ike, Mia, Boyd, Shinon, Titania, Gatrie, Mist, Nephenee, Haar, Calill, and Tanith to promote by the start of part 4, promoting only Calill and Soren early (level 18). Actually, Gatrie had to fight a bit more to promote, but everyone else made it.

I also want to mention, Oscar can promote in 9 levels, Mia takes like 14 to promote. Those 6 levels on an already EXP raped gain makes a difference.

Well then, let's see how a 20/1 Oscar compares to a level 17 Mia for kicks. Both with some estimated BEXP stats. I'll be rounding certain stats (down for .45 or lower, up for .5 or greater) because it's tricky to determine how BEXP affects averages.

Oscar:

HP: 47.5

Str: 25

Mag: 12.6

Skl: 26

Spd: 26

Luck: 24

Def: 22

Res: 18.6

This makes for (with Steel Greatlance, A Ike)

Atk: 39

Hit: 161

Avo: 136

Crit: 13

Sol activation: 13%

Mia:

HP: 40

Str: 23

Mag: 6.5

Skl: 30

Spd: 30

Luck: 23

Def: 19

Res: 10.5

Which makes for (With Steel Blade/Killing Edge, A Nephenee)

Atk: 38/33

Hit: 178/198

Avo: 106

Crit: 25/55

Oscar wins this one, but not as much as you'd expect from a promoted unit. The problem is that we only have enemies up to 3-9, but I don't expect these levels to arrive until about 3-10, so I'll have to compare them to 3-8 units for now.

1x Warrior lvl 11 (Steel Poleax)

HP 41, Atk 39, AS 21, Hit 118, Avo 58, DEF 17, RES 9, Crit 10, Ddg 16

1x Warrior lvl 12 (Steel Poleax)

HP 42, Atk 39, AS 21, Hit 118, Avo 58, DEF 17, RES 10, Crit 10, Ddg 16

Mia 1-2 rounds at 100%, 9/39 crit. She's 2 rounded at 12 displayed, 3% true, no crit.

Oscar 1 rounds at 100%, no crit. He's not getting hit.

Oscar wins, but Mia is still one-rounding and is very unlikely to even be hit. It's more of a neutral point than anything.

1x Halberdier lvl 14 (Steel Greatlance)

HP 40, Atk 35, AS 21, Hit 128, Avo 58, DEF 22, ES 14, Crit 15, Ddg 16

Mia 2 rounds at 100%, 9/39 crit. She's 3 rounded at 22 displayed, 9.9% true, no crit.

Oscar 2 rounds at 100%. He still isn't hit.

Another supposed win for Oscar, but only if Mia can't critical. Still pretty much neutral.

1x Swordmaster lvl 11 (Steel Blade)

HP 35, Atk 31, AS 24, Hit 128, Avo 63, DEF 16, RES 11, Crit 21, Ddg 15

Mia 1-2 rounds at 100%, 10/40 crit. She's 4 rounded at 22 displayed, 9.9% true, no crit.

Oscar 2 rounds at 100%, no crit. He isn't hit.

Mia pulls off a win this time. She one rounds where Oscar two rounds, and is still far from dying.

The rest of the enemies follow the same trend. Mia is either better or the same offensively, and although Oscar's durability is better, Mia's durability is nothing to laugh at either. A promoted Oscar vs. unpromoted Mia isn't even really pulling off a win.

Might I also mention how the supports are helping their partners. Ike's defense is plenty awesome as is, and he can get uber avoid from anyone, so supporting Oscar isn't a big deal for him. I would actually go so far as to say he'd probably prefer Soren to boost his offense, since that +2 boost can occasionally be the difference between 1 and 2 rounding Generals.

Nephenee loves her partner. Damage output is what she lacks, so the power boost is quite nice for her. She wouldn't prefer anyone else. And because of higher Speed and this support, this can actually make Nephenee more offensively capable than Oscar herself.

Mia is L20 and Oscar has a 26% chance or so of activating Sol.

Ha. Sol activation is Skill/2%, not Skill%. Oscar's max Sol activation is 17%, one percent higher than Mia's 16% on promotion.

Ike and Oscar, not Ike and Mia.

Eh? I wasn't assuming IkeXMia or anything.

Have Ike go right with Oscar then. There are many enemies there, and Tormod/etc can easily come down. They're safer that way anyway especially considering Ike and Oscar aren't the only units in the chapter.

Who's taking the enemies up top then? Note that Titania and Mist are two forced units on this team, so they also are taking the southern route with their support partners. If Oscar is forcing Ike to come down, that might not be good for whoever goes north.

It's not a point if she doesn't need something. It's already a point that she has high enough Speed/Skill, it's irrelevant if she doesn't need Resolve.

The activation of Resolve gives her 30 more avoid and hit and 7 more crit, making her practically invincible. If she's already good enough not to need that, then that's fine for her.

She shouldn't be getting Resolve anyway. Chars like Oscar (lol), Gatrie, Sanaki, Micaiah with low speed scores or caps need it much more so they can be more viable in play, instead of making someone a lot more viable than they already can be when their current ability pans through just fine. The people who need Resolve don't necessarily need it either, but it's less entitled to someone like Mia than someone like Oscar. In which case, Oscar does in fact have a better chance of getting Resolve.

That's fine, since she makes better use of Adept + Cancel anyway. The point is that she can have all these skill combos while Oscar can't. She can stack Resolve with Vantage and something else, she just doesn't need to. Oscar can't do this.

The rest are chancy moves. And even then, Oscar takes 5 capacity for Canto, which bolsters his defense further because it allows him to go up to a unit, attack, then retreat. Or attack then further his movement because he still has some remaining. It's worth it, especially since Canto activates all of the time (provided his movement isn't maxed everytime you move him) whereas Vantage and Cancel and shit doesn't.

Canto takes 10 capacity, not 5, unless you meant 5 extra compared to Shove. And yes, this is a point in his favor, I cannot deny that, but I can say that it would mean more if he wasn't often hindered in movement, such as the instances where he loses 2 movement or gets affected more by terrain than Mia does.

Basically, Canto has to make up for the fact that he lost 5 capacity for it. Because of it, he can't equip the awesome skill combos Mia can. It helps his mobility, but not his offense, and that's the area that he really lacks. So the plus side of it conflicts with the down side of it, making it an almost neutral point for him.

Wrath should boost Oscar into the 50s and 60s (bond supports with Boyd, potentially Ike) as well which is only 10% lower.

Bonds are pretty unreliable, since he has to be right next to them for it to activate. Otherwise, that's fine.

And? He's doing damn adequately, especially since he makes Ike go from semi permeable to invincible and he, himself, takes some of that invincibility for himself, so liberality isn't much of a point at all considering they all have decent output.

Yes, he is, but in this case Mia is more likely to be taken to the final chapter because she will end up at higher level and therefore be performing much, much better.

Are you joking? Stefan's Def is only 2 points lower, his luck is only four points lower (and his evade is only two lower, seeing as he has 1 more AS) and his resistance is a fraction of a point lower. With much higher HP, 3 more Skill, and etc. Sure Mia may have a fire support, but jesus that's not much better than a Heaven support. Both are terrible affinities, and Mia's attack lead either matters nil or matters slightly depending on enemy stats, which is something that I have no clue of.

Am I joking? You basically repeated everything I already said. She's only really losing at all in HP but with more defense and more avoid (+8 from support), so her durability is just as good or better, and this is at a lower level than him! Not to mention her offensive lead. How can you say Stefan is easier to use when Mia is already doing better?

And fire is not a terrible affinity. The +hit is next to useless, but the +atk allows her to get up to 3 more power, effectively making her strength 34 at cap, which is only just as good as a male Trueblade can ever get. Problem is, Zihark takes a while to reach that and Stefan isn't building a support so quickly.

Zihark/Volug is easily capable of soloing chapter 3-13, and even if they probably won't, Zihark can get to L15 where he has 116 Avoid (compared to Mia's 84) and 4 less Strength, 2 less Speed etc. Zihark/Nolan is pretty much the same, btw, and more viable for final chapter.

Level 15? He may fight a lot of Laguz, but there are still units out there like Jill, Tauroneo, Nolan, and Volug that are also killing things. Level 15 is very high for him. I actually felt like 10 might be high, but it's fine for the purpose of this debate. She still owns him offensively and her avoid is fine.

Tanith has bow weakness. There's a double bow user in this chapter, and a blizzard tome and some other bow users. I'd agree that she's on equal footing with Oscar however, considering how Tanith's support partner is still up in the air whereas Oscar's has been a solid Ike since 3-2 or something.

So send her to the right? She'll have no trouble dodging the Blizzard and the Double Bow guy doesn't move anyway. Nothing for her to worry about.

I doubt they have 29-30 AS either. Personal experience on normal mode says that Oscar can double a fair bit with 32 speed. If not, then he has Resolve, and the others that make use of it don't really have his support with Ike handy, so he can be a better candidate for it than, say, Gatrie. No one else needs it except mages, and they're pretty much his only competition for Resolve. There's two Resolves anyway.

There are some SM's with 30-31 AS. Mia can double them without Resolve, Oscar can't. Only 2 Resolves, yet Gatrie, Calill, Soren, Micaiah, Titania, and Haar are all viable candidates for it, especially Micaiah. I'd say they need it more than him. Especially Micaiah. Sacrifice + Resolve, y'know.

On top of this, Urvan has just as much power as the Vague Katti whereas Nolan's average Strength (probably going to be around 33 or something) is still higher than Mia's 31. And Nolan's 35 speed cap still lets him double. At best it's equal, and it can probably favor Nolan because Nolan's defense has a win (more HP, more evade).

Nolan also has competition for Urvan, but him being better than Mia is kind of pointless for this debate. I can't deny that he's a better endgame candidate than her, but he's better than Oscar also, so it's a moot point.

Mia can also take Alondite for range and a Wyrmslayer for the dragons. She has almost no weapon competition for endgame since there are plenty of usable swords and not many good characters to use them. Oscar doesn't have it like that since there is only one Wishblade and no bonus damaging weapons other than Horseslayers, but he doesn't get nearly as much use of that as Mia gets from a Wyrmslayer.

Zihark, on the other hand, has a defensive option that still makes him viable.

Mia's defense is nothing to laugh at as has already been shown, but her offense pwns Zihark's, as was also shown. She's just as likely for endgame as he is. Oscar has much more competition as I already stated.

Well, good luck. I enjoyed this debate with you. I hope you did as well.