A theory

[xanatha]

Shouldn't Naesala know that

the Senators had arranged it

? I just have this feeling that the reason why Naesala and the ravens did not come to the rescue of the herons was that

Lekain had ordered him not to.

Anyone who agrees with me?

Edited February 9, 2009 by xanatha

[Bananas]

Even if Naesala knew he wouldn't have been able to do anything

because of the Blood Pact. The senators would have threatened him with it and at that time Sanaki wasn't born yet so she couldn't overrule the senators and help Naesala.

I'm sure in other circumstances he wouldn't have hesitated to help the herons.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Bananas

[xanatha]

Even if Naesala knew he wouldn't have been able to do anything

because of the Blood Pact. The senators would have threatened him with it and at that time Sanaki wasn't born yet so she couldn't overrule the senators and help Naesala.

Yeah, I thought so too. I just wondered if this is possible.

[grandjackal]

It DOES make me wonder about

when Naesala sells Reyson to Oliver. Maybe Oliver's the one who broke the news? I'm sure he'd still ask for payment, Naesala's a ruthless motherfucker.

[xanatha]

It DOES make me wonder about

when Naesala sells Reyson to Oliver. Maybe Oliver's the one who broke the news? I'm sure he'd still ask for payment, Naesala's a ruthless motherfucker.

Sorry, maybe it's just my english, but what do you mean?

[grandjackal]

Sorry, maybe it's just my english, but what do you mean?

Well...

In FE9, Naesala sells Reyson, his best friend, to Oliver, a Begnion senator, right? Why would he do that even for money? Naesala's an ass, but that's pushing it considering how willing he is to fix these problems in FE10. I'm basically saying I think he was threatened with the blood contract in FE9.

[Paper Jam]

Well...

In FE9, Naesala sells Reyson, his best friend, to Oliver, a Begnion senator, right? Why would he do that even for money? Naesala's an ass, but that's pushing it considering how willing he is to fix these problems in FE10. I'm basically saying I think he was threatened with the blood contract in FE9.

I'm inclined to agree. Nealuchi did say in FE9 that Kilvas had its own problems, but the only real problem that Kilvas has and other nations don't is

the Blood Pact.

Besides, if Naesala's Blood Pact was anything like Pelleas', he must have gotten a mark on his wrist (or perhaps somewhere else on his body) as soon as he took the throne of Kilvas. Since Nealuchi is old enough to remember the previous king of Kilvas, maybe he knew about the Blood Pact.

[xanatha]

Well...

In FE9, Naesala sells Reyson, his best friend, to Oliver, a Begnion senator, right? Why would he do that even for money? Naesala's an ass, but that's pushing it considering how willing he is to fix these problems in FE10. I'm basically saying I think he was threatened with the blood contract in FE9.

Oh, so that's what you meant. Sorry.

Well, I'm not sure if any other senator than Lekain (and maybe Hetzel) knew about the blood pact. Lekain seemd too self-righteous to share the throne.

As for the Naesala-sells-Reyson conflict, I really don't thing that Oliver knew about the blood pact. If he did then he would probably not have to pay for Reyson, right? And when Nealuchi imforms Tibarn about the situation he says that the only reason why Naesala agreed to the proposal was becaus he knew that Oliver would never do the slightest thing to harm Reyson.

I think the plot was pretty much based on gold for Kilvas account. And it sure turns out good in the end!

Edited February 9, 2009 by xanatha

[Father Wood]

I assume that Kilvas did all that because in nature, they are ravens. I know you're probably thinking "Well Duh!" when I say this, but think about this; whenever you see a crow/raven on the street what do they do? They scavenge for whatever trash they can find to keep themselves alive.

This is kinda like Naesala in FE9. He scavenges everything he can do to make a quick buck. I doubt those things had to do with the blood pact. As for the massacre, I don't think he got word of it before it ended. When you talk to Naesala with Reyson in chapter 18 he gets a change of heart.

Anyway, that's how I interpret it. On a side note, after playing both FE9-10 I've started to pay more attention to ravens/crows and like them more, anyone else feel this way?

Man, what's with all the spoiler bars in the Radiant FEs?

Edited February 9, 2009 by Yourgranny

[Mufasa]

Well, Naesala said that he had the intention of rescuing Reyson from Oliver eventually. He needed the money, and then he was gonna pull a fast one on Oliver, and save Reyson.

That's what I always thought.

[xanatha]

I assume that Kilvas did all that because in nature, they are ravens. I know you're probably thinking "Well Duh!" when I say this, but think about this; whenever you see a crow/raven on the street what do they do? They scavenge for whatever trash they can find to keep themselves alive.

This is kinda like Naesala in FE9. He scavenges everything he can do to make a quick buck. I doubt those things had to do with the blood pact. *As for the massacre, I don't think he got word of it before it ended. When you talk to Naesala with Reyson in chapter 18 he gets a change of heart.

Anyway, that's how I interpret it. On a side note, after playing both FE9-10 I've started to pay more attention to ravens/crows and like them more, anyone else feel this way?

That a very good comparison. I didn't thing of that before, but now when you mention it, it sounds very trustworthy.

*Sure? The massacre took days, didn't it? I doubt Naesala's spies had not got aware of it until it was over.

Lol. Yeah, me too. My friends think I'm weird when I say that ravens are my favorite birds.

[Liz]

you're forgetting that Kilvas is a really poor country. there is not much food there, that is why they even started to be pirates in the first place unlike the hawks who did it out of spite towards beorc

i believe that between the ravens and begnion there was this unspoken agreement. begnion would allow some pirating so that the raven clan would survive, in exchange for loyalty. of course, the senate could always resort to the blood pact, but why be in bad terms with someone who can serve you much better if there is some sort of thankful feeling?

perhaps Naesala selling Reyson was more of the same. he would sell Reyson to Oliver, making him happy and perhaps even be more willing to vouch for Kilvas, and would rescue him afterwards so that everybody else was happy he DID say he was planning on doing that, and Naesala isn't the type to lie about those things IMO. the delicate balance between Begnion and Kilvas would be preserved, and the Kilvas ravens would be able to continue raiding ships.

[Father Wood]

Sure? The massacre took days, didn't it? I doubt Naesala's spies had not got aware of it until it was over.

Hm, in that case maybe Begnion made the pact right before the massacre and told Kilvas not to get involved. This is kinda weird that they chose Kilvas and not Phoenicis though because Ulki and Janaff could have gotten Phoenicis to save the Herons post-haste, which they probably attempted. But then were too slow like in RD when they went to save their homeland. Kilvas is closer to Serenes and the Ravens are faster, so they probably could have made it in time to save many herons.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Yourgranny

[xanatha]

you're forgetting that Kilvas is a really poor country. there is not much food there, that is why they even started to be pirates in the first place unlike the hawks who did it out of spite towards beorc

i believe that between the ravens and begnion there was this unspoken agreement. begnion would allow some pirating so that the raven clan would survive, in exchange for loyalty. of course, the senate could always resort to the blood pact, but why be in bad terms with someone who can serve you much better if there is some sort of thankful feeling?

perhaps Naesala selling Reyson was more of the same. he would sell Reyson to Oliver, making him happy and perhaps even be more willing to vouch for Kilvas, and would rescue him afterwards so that everybody else was happy he DID say he was planning on doing that, and Naesala isn't the type to lie about those things IMO. the delicate balance between Begnion and Kilvas would be preserved, and the Kilvas ravens would be able to continue raiding ships.

I cannot argue with this, since you're always right about anything concerning Fire Emblem. And I know I've heard it before, but where in the game do they actually mention that Kilvas is a poor country?

Edited February 9, 2009 by xanatha

[charmander6000]

In PoR during the laguz kings meeting.

[xanatha]

In PoR during the laguz kings meeting.

Ah, thank you!

[Paper Jam]

The only screens we have depicting the Blood Pact Mark (i.e. Pelleas'

and Micaiah's if she killed Pelleas

) show it on the front of Pelleas' left wrist

and Micaiah's right wrist

. Unfortunately, the only screenshot we have of Naesala's predecessor does not reveal anything like that; the front of his wrists are hidden.

Anyway, it's pretty clear to me that the Blood Pact Mark usually manifests itself on the current ruler of the kingdom, whether that ruler actually signed the Blood Pact or not. So even if Naesala didn't know why, he would have gotten a strange mark on his body shortly after assuming the throne of Kilvas.

And it couldn't have been that hard or taken that long to figure out what it was...

[xanatha]

Unfortunately, the only screenshot we have of Naesala's predecessor does not reveal anything like that; the front of his wrists are hidden.

Anyway, it's pretty clear to me that the Blood Pact Mark usually manifests itself on the current ruler of the kingdom, whether that ruler actually signed the Blood Pact or not. So even if Naesala didn't know why, he would have gotten a strange mark on his body shortly after assuming the throne of Kilvas.

And it couldn't have been that hard or taken that long to figure out what it was...

But that's not Naesala, is it? I've studied that picture in long periodes and Naesala has neither beard nor brown wings. It must be the former king of Kilvas. Either way, Naesala must have the mark even if it is not revealed in the game. I mean, not in a clear way.

[Paper Jam]

But that's not Naesala, is it? I've studied that picture in long periodes and Naesala has neither beard nor brown wings. It must be the former king of Kilvas. Either way, Naesala must have the mark even if it is not revealed in the game. I mean, not in a clear way.

That's Naesala's predecessor, or one of them.

My point is that Naesala probably knew about the Blood Pact (or at least a Blood Pact) shortly after he became king, if not before.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Paper Jam

[xanatha]

That's Naesala's predecessor, or one of them.

My point is that Naesala probably knew about the Blood Pact (or at least a Blood Pact) shortly after he became king, if not before.

Oh, sorry. I missed that word.

I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that he did. I mean, why would Lekain not tell him about it? It's not a threat if the king doesn't know about it.

[Father Wood]

i believe that between the ravens and begnion there was this unspoken agreement. begnion would allow some pirating so that the raven clan would survive, in exchange for loyalty. of course, the senate could always resort to the blood pact, but why be in bad terms with someone who can serve you much better if there is some sort of thankful feeling?

I doubt they had an agreement, why would the Begnion senators care if Kilvas raided Phoenicis? They're racist against Laguz. If anything, what they had was a non-aggresion pact to prevent Kilvas from stopping the massacre, and to later use Kilvas against the alliance in the second war.

[xanatha]

I doubt they had an agreement, why would the Begnion senators care if Kilvas raided Phoenicis? They're racist against Laguz. If anything, what they had was a non-aggresion pact to prevent Kilvas from stopping the massacre, and to later use Kilvas against the alliance in the second war.

Hmm, you're right. This sounds more like it. No matter how "kind" the senators thought they were, I doubt that Naesala felt the same way. I mean c'mon! They forced him to make an attempt to wipe out Phoenicis! No matter how much Naesala disliked Tibarn, I cannot imagine that he ever wished for that. And after that was done, he even lost his will to live!

[Liz]

I doubt they had an agreement, why would the Begnion senators care if Kilvas raided Phoenicis? They're racist against Laguz. If anything, what they had was a non-aggresion pact to prevent Kilvas from stopping the massacre, and to later use Kilvas against the alliance in the second war.

first, that post dealt with the Ravens pirating Begnion ships. Phoenicis wasn't even part of the equation. and i was talking about FE9, not 10, specifically about why was the raven clan permitted to continue raiding Begnion ships when the Begnion senators could have killed them anytime.

second, just because the senate were racists doesn't mean that they didn't recognize the utility of the raven clan. actually, it would be quite a stupid move to senselessly destroy a nation that they can control. in other words, as long as the raven clan can be useful to the senators, the senators will care very much about the raven clan. the senate weren't just a bunch of fat old dastards living a life of comfort. they were cunning, so saying that they didn't care about the ravens is insulting their intelligence.

[xanatha]

second, just because the senate were racists doesn't mean that they didn't recognize the utility of the raven clan. actually, it would be quite a stupid move to senselessly destroy a nation that they can control. in other words, as long as the raven clan can be useful to the senators, the senators will care very much about the raven clan. the senate weren't just a bunch of fat old dastards living a life of comfort. they were cunning, so saying that they didn't care about the ravens is insulting their intelligence.

What do you mean with "care very much"? The senators only cared if the ravens were alive and in shape good enough to obey orders. If they had actually cared for the ravens then they would have let them be free. There's no caring in their situation, only master and slave. It's not like the ravens would do worse without the blood pact.

[Liz]

What do you mean with "care very much"? The senators only cared if the ravens were alive and in shape good enough to obey orders. If they had actually cared for the ravens then they would have let them be free. There's no caring in their situation, only master and slave. It's not like the ravens would do worse without the blood pact.

when i said "care very much" i didn't mean it as if they cared about them in an emotional sense.

to the senate, the ravens were a very powerful tool that they had at their disposal. considering this, they would obviously care very much that their tool is in good shape, since otherwise the ravens wouldn't be very useful to them. basically this, if you had a very nice toy that you could do almost anything with, you would obviously take care of it, wouldn't you?

i'm not saying that the senate suddenly grew a heart, i'm saying that as long as the raven clan can be of any use to them they'll make sure that it doesn't die out or something like that. once they're not of any use, they'll just dispose of them like any other broken tool.