Phoenix Wright Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Wasting hours upon hours hoping to get lucky with the RNG is identical to spending minutes plugging in a cheat device and switching hexadecimals in the memory? Why waste so much time? Is it really that worth it? Plus, hacking and RNG abusing are the same in that you get artificial final results. You think anyone gives a shit you spent hours cheating? I do not think so, therefore, as long as you are RNG abusing, you mine as well hack. Since they are both the same essentially. You can throw all that hexadecimal crap, and how long it took at me, but when it comes down to it, both are ways to cheat, and BOTH should be strictly prohibited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 This whole thing has gotten out of hand. Everyone, just stop the arguing. For years people have been debating if RNG abusing is hacking or not. I doubt we will ever have the answer. But I know you've all done it. I've done it too. :) Can we get this thread back on track now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) EDIT: @ above. There IS evidence that wavedashing was deliberately put into melee. Else I would not have written it. Sakurai mentioned in an interview, that testers noticed wavedashing in melee, but they decided to keep it in because it made the game more interesting. If I asked you to roll a die, and throw away everything but a 6, would it matter? Link to said article? I have seen this brought up numerous times with no actual evidence to support it, only hearsay, and I would like to see it myself. Yes, it does matter, because of how the result is determined. The difference becomes even clearer if I were to ask you to throw more dice. I will repeat again, the means are more important than results in determining legitimacy. In Pokemon, for example, breeding Pokemon with a favorable nature and excellent IVs is perfectly acceptable while hacking an identical Pokemon is frowned upon. The use of hacked Pokemon as parents to pass down nature and IVs to child Pokemon is also frowned upon - evidently, the use of the hacking device is the determinant to legitimacy. Pokemon breeding is methodical as well as luck-based and there are ways to improve one's chances of reaching a specific goal, but re-classing and the ability to choose near-perfect level ups in FEDS achieve much of the same thing. This is also incorrect. It is possible to get stats with a 0% growth. There have been several topic about this on the forums already. 0% is 0%. I'd question if these claims are actual or a result of fuzzy recollection, but right now one shouldn't go around assuming that 0% is not 0%. Why waste so much time? Is it really that worth it? Plus, hacking and RNG abusing are the same in that you get artificial final results. You think anyone gives a shit you spent hours cheating? I do not think so, therefore, as long as you are RNG abusing, you mine as well hack. Since they are both the same essentially. You can throw all that hexadecimal crap, and how long it took at me, but when it comes down to it, both are ways to cheat, and BOTH should be strictly prohibited. The question of why one would dedicate time to RNG abusing is irrelevant to this debate (I would do it if I wanted to play to win). If one were to examine results as a product of effort, then of course it matters how much effort is necessary to achieve results. Hacking and RNG abusing are not the same in the same way that hiking to the top of a mountain and taking the ski lift there are not the same. Claiming that they are "both the same essentially" is to oversimplify them to a point where it wouldn't even be suitable to compare them. Exploiting a mechanic of the game (or system) is cheating? This is news to me. Edited March 19, 2009 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) And one more thing before I finally shut-up (thank God). Even the damn topic title is disagreeing with RNG abusing. "Wi-Fi Cheaters Thread, From hackers to cheap tactic users" Whether you'll admit it or not, RNG abusing is a cheap tactic. It makes other players who actually try to play the game right obselete. in the same way that hiking to the top of a mountain and taking the ski lift there are not the same.They are the same. They both get you to the top of the hill. One is slower, one is faster.They are obviously not identical, so maybe "same" is not the best word for it. Similar is good. They are largely similar, which is why I say the methods are essentially the same. Edited March 19, 2009 by FEFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I thought it would be a good idea to say that class swaping to get desired growths is NOT hacking. Just incase people find doing that to be unfair too. Edited March 19, 2009 by chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 "Wi-Fi Cheaters Thread, From hackers to cheap tactic users"Whether you'll admit it or not, RNG abusing is a cheap tactic. It makes other players who actually try to play the game right obselete. I'm pretty sure "cheap tactics" refer to competitive tactics, as "tactics" most often refers to the deployment and maneuvering of soldiers and supplies. Your statement isn't based on anything concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) I'm pretty sure "cheap tactics" refer to competitive tactics, as "tactics" most often refers to the deployment and maneuvering of soldiers and supplies.Your statement isn't based on anything concrete. I'll take this to PM's as I do not want Chickenman to get upset. I thought it would be a good idea to say that class swaping to get desired growths is NOT hacking. Just incase people find doing that to be unfair too. I don't think so. It is a new feature after all. Edited March 19, 2009 by FEFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'll take this to PM's as I do not want Chickenman to get upset. Thanks. You do not want to see me upset. :P If you want, make a new thread to debate this topic. It just doesn't belong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakath Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 That's a slippery slope FEFL. If we count having the time, energy, and patience to farm levels as a cheap tactic. Having the time, energy, and patience to gather the Gold and Brave weapons to forge them with cap Power isn't exactly 'fair'. I mean, if you count spending hours tweaking levels as cheap, I say spending hours Arena hording gold for weapons that I really doubt IS ever thought anyone WOULD cap in the Forge forged is pretty dang cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I'm only posting this because I was directly asked to do so. I won't reply after this, unless it is for an on-topic matter. . . Some links for dondon151. I had more previously, but most of this info is pretty old, so finding it again is difficult. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162416 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10802 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Some links for dondon151. I had more previously, but most of this info is pretty old, so finding it again is difficult. Wow, I did not know this. Thanks. If anything, though, it also confirms my thoughts that the developers didn't keep it with the intention that it would be such a driving force in the metagame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenman Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Wow, I did not know this. Thanks. If anything, though, it also confirms my thoughts that the developers didn't keep it with the intention that it would be such a driving force in the metagame. Come on people. Your filling this thread with useless garbage. Could a MOD, if possible move the recent posts about RNG/Arena abuse into the thread I just made regarding it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zath of the Sword Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Players name: did not get it Team name: Champions Spotted by: Zath of the Sword Reason: max stast on charters and 99 use weapons also had sucky chareters with a few stats maxed the second reason makes it look the idiot was to lazy to even finish hacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bros Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I found one. Players name: BrawlSucks Team name: Metroid is Awsome! Spotted by: luigi bros Reason: All units had maxed stats, 99 HP, Forged real Imhullu, Swarm, and Starlight. They also all had 33 move. It may have been spotted. I don't know I didn't read the whole topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgg Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I found one.Players name: BrawlSucks Team name: Metroid is Awsome! Spotted by: luigi bros Reason: All units had maxed stats, 99 HP, Forged real Imhullu, Swarm, and Starlight. They also all had 33 move. It may have been spotted. I don't know I didn't read the whole topic. beat me to it........played him 4 or 5 times today so far...been a bast everytime and now i can't seem to get any other player <_< Edited June 17, 2009 by Orgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bros Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Players name: Aaghan (Something like that) Team name: Greil Spotted by: luigi bros Reason: Not sure if he's a cheater but everytime I connected he shut the game off. It's not exactly cheating though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgg Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Players name: legendario Team name: Amo Spotted by: Orgg Reason: Single Merric team, maxed everything (move included) with Imhullu and 99 use items Players name: (didn't see this one) Team name: LOL Spotted by: Orgg Reason: Max stats again, Imhullu and 99 uses, moved a couple of my characters out of his way, other than that nothing was forged and went down pretty easy Edited June 18, 2009 by Orgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bros Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Name:Wait what? Team name:ABA Spotted by:luigi bros Reason:No hacking. He had one unit left and waited till the clock said 0:01 to attack in with his final unit Orgg, I got that guy too. I also wanted to say he was standing on the same space as me in and out of battle. When Catria attacked she was litterally striking air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 dlv is a cheater he keeps using MYRMIDON ELICE against me and beats me all teh time D: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgg Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Players name: BrawlSucks Team name: Metroid Rules! Spotted by: orgg Reason: add metroid rules to the list of this guy's teams............this one all stats maxed with imhullu and torches.....is it wrong to make these guys wait 5 minutes for a turn? Edited June 18, 2009 by Orgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Players name: Martin Team name: MINE Spotted by: Sylvan Reason: 27 movement, forged swarm, 99/X durability, level 4 unit with capped stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capracanis Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have no desire to read through all of this and see if you already posted the cheaters I am about to mention. I read to page 3 and decided to screw it. Name: ??? (I don't remember) Team: Ptykryt Reason: MIID_NULL and somehow managed to mirror my forged weapons. PS. When you beat this person, your game freezes. Name: Adell Team: (Keeps gettting new teams) Reason: EVERY HACK IMAGINABLE. I've played this person at least once a week for the last two months. The team name constantly changes but allth e hacks are the same. 99X weps, MIID_NULL, unlimited movement range, maxed stats--the works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercdouken Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 dlv is a cheaterhe keeps using MYRMIDON ELICE against me and beats me all teh time D: That's because you're using a lvl.1 MYRMIDON WRYS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacknight9 Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 That's because you're using a lvl.1 MYRMIDON WRYS! ... yah think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taho Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) Edit: entry deleted, the guy wasn't a cheater, I just got something wrong. Apologies. Edited June 22, 2009 by Taho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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