Wo Dao or Killing Edge for Wifi?

[Shinobi]

Do you think it would be better to forge a Killing Edge or a Wo Dao for use on wifi. Since the max for critical on a weapon is 50, forging a Wo Dao is cheaper, but it will have one less mt point compared to a forged Killing Edge. Which do you think is the better choice?

Also, is forging a maxed Levin Sword for Wifi a good idea? I thinking about doing that and giving it to Marth so he'll have a ranged attack. But then that leaves me with another question. My Marth would have the Falchion, Fire Emblem, Forged Rapier, Forged Brave Sword, and either a Forged Wo Dao/Killing Edge or Forged Levin Sword. Should I even forged the Levin Sword?

[Metal Rabbit]

Killer weapons can easily be negated by a wifi-specific card that makes crits useless. You'd be better off using strong weapons unless you want to take the chance on crits and on whether or not your opponent picks that card.

None of the sword users have the magic stat to make the Levin sword useful. Unless you made a crappy, freakish magic/melee hybrid.

And the consensus is Marth sucks on Wifi compared to other classes/units.

[Shinobi]

I see. So forging the Levin Sword would be a waste then. I thought since most melee units don't have a resistance stat, the 16 damage (32 if you double) at a range would be useful.

What about between the Wo Dao vs. Killing Edge?

[Metal Rabbit]

If you have to pick a killer weapon, just go with Wo Dao because the purpose of using them is to get in a crit.

[Shinobi]

Well after forging the only difference between the two is that the Wo Dao would have 1 less Mt and less weight. Critical would be the same between the two. But I supposed I'll go with the Wo Dao since it is sightly cheaper.

[Dat Nick]

brave sword with 30 crit

[Metal Rabbit]

Well after forging the only difference between the two is that the Wo Dao would have 1 less Mt and less weight. Critical would be the same between the two. But I supposed I'll go with the Wo Dao since it is sightly cheaper.

forging can add +30 to crit, and the wo dao has a base crit of 30 while killing edge has 20.

[Shinobi]

I'm at the forging screen right now and I see that you cannot forge something with a critical rate higher than 50. The most it will let me add to a Wo Dao is 20 since it has a base rate of 30.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Wo Dao is a bit less expensive to forge and you only have to thrown in 20 accuracy. The downside to it (for wi-fi) is that Killing Edge will always end up with 1 more MT and 5 Accuracy more than what Wo Dao could have.

If money's no issue, Killing Edge wins.

Also, I'd pick Killing Edge over Levin Sword since Marth's never doubling anything that's not a General so Levin Sword damage output would never be much.

Edited March 14, 2009 by Sirius

[Sylvan]

Killing over Wo Dao. Using a wo dao is just like using a killer with 1 less Mt forged.

Levin swords aren't that useful, 16 attack is pretty low and people use pure waters quite often.

[Shinobi]

Thanks for the help everyone. I ended up going with the Wo Dao because I just realized how much it costs to forge Brave weapons... I really appreciate the information about the Levin Sword, I completely forgot about Pure Waters.

[Dat Nick]

because I just realized how much it costs to forge Brave weapons

Why do you think the arena exists, for EXP?

[CT075]

Um... Yeah.

[Shinobi]

I did abuse the arena back a couple of chapters ago (chapter 8 or 9 I think), up to 200,000, but that's about the price for 1 Brave weapon...

[Janissary]

lolz, don't max forge, that's a waste. Just max might add some hit or crit if you want, and move along.

[Rakath]

Wo Dao is a bit less expensive to forge and you only have to thrown in 20 accuracy. The downside to it (for wi-fi) is that Killing Edge will always end up with 1 more MT and 5 Accuracy more than what Wo Dao could have.

If money's no issue, Killing Edge wins.

Also, I'd pick Killing Edge over Levin Sword since Marth's never doubling anything that's not a General so Levin Sword damage output would never be much.

I really doubt the 5 accuracy will ever matter, you'd need to have a really pathetic Sword user to need more than 110 Hit on a blade.

If you're having money issues on making Braves don't go for 100+ Hit unless it's needed. A basic Forged (read: Max Might, 100 Hit) Brave should only run about 100,000 each (including buying the weapon). Only one that goes over that (and only by a little) is a Brave Lance.

Depending on your classes and stats, your general need for Hit on weapons won't go too much over 100. It only does if you want to make sure you have 100 hit on everything, and that's only in the worst case where all enemies have a Maxed out Dodge (which needs a maxed out Luck, which isn't all that common). The highest non-Support dodge is 45, 100 Hit on a weapon should be plenty unless your unit has low Skill AND Luck...

Then I suggest finding a new unit to raise.

[Sylvan]

I really doubt the 5 accuracy will ever matter, you'd need to have a really pathetic Sword user to need more than 110 Hit on a blade.

If you're having money issues on making Braves don't go for 100+ Hit unless it's needed. A basic Forged (read: Max Might, 100 Hit) Brave should only run about 100,000 each (including buying the weapon). Only one that goes over that (and only by a little) is a Brave Lance.

Depending on your classes and stats, your general need for Hit on weapons won't go too much over 100. It only does if you want to make sure you have 100 hit on everything, and that's only in the worst case where all enemies have a Maxed out Dodge (which needs a maxed out Luck, which isn't all that common). The highest non-Support dodge is 45, 100 Hit on a weapon should be plenty unless your unit has low Skill AND Luck...

Then I suggest finding a new unit to raise.

If your using braves. You need to forge hit rate. A brave weapon with an 80% hit (110% hit30% avoid) is somewhat worse than a killer with a 50% crit.

If you do the math, 80% hit on a brave is actually only 64% of doing 2x damage. While killer is 50% of doing 3x damage. This ratio gets worse when looking at dual-hits. (braves become 41% of doing 4x and killer 75% of doing 4x)

The avoid rate you mentioned, excludes terrain bonus, forest, gate, sea, fort etc can give 10 to 20 extra avoid. Then you get the weapon triangle bonus.

So, fighting a lance user on a fort (which is really common, since lance users can generally move further and get the fort quicker) you'll find a brave weapon is quite unreliable compared to a killer.

Of course all this assumes they aren't using dazzle, but the point is, you need to forge hit on braves. More hit than you would on a killer.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Sylvan

[Lord Raven]

If you do the math, 80% hit on a brave is actually only 64% of doing 2x damage

Actually 80% displayed hit is like 80-85% of doing 2x damage.

[Rakath]

Sylvan, I know that going TO 100 is needed, but above it isn't really useful. Looking at every Weapon the optimal avoids are:

Sword - Swordmaster and Horseman (45 Avoid)

Lance - Falcoknight (40 Avoid)

Axe - Hero (41 Avoid)

That's assuming everyone you fight capped Speed AND Luck, which isn't likely. A Swordmaster with capped Skill and at least 10 Luck has a 44 Hitrate (34 against Lance units) on his own, add a sword with 100 Hit and he'll be at 99 vs Swordmaster (at Caps), 94 vs Falco (again, caps) and 113 vs. Axe Hero (at Caps). Forging the extra 30 Hit on the Brave Sword is a waste of Gold. Especially since capping Luck is not likely and Falcos are less used than Paladins (who with capped everything only have a 37 Avoid).

Paladins might want some extra hitrate (MAYBE) if they have a really pathetic Luck score. Same goes for a Berserker that isn't near-capped in Skill (since even the best case scenario his Luck only caps at 22). But for most units get the Hit to 100 and you're fine, Swordmasters with capped Luck can probably just stop at 90 without much ill effect.

[Sylvan]

I'm just pointing it out is all.

I've fought a lot of people online where my crit rate has been higher than their hit rate, simply because of supports. Now I know not everyone has supports, but it can make a very big difference in a game.

Swordmasters, your right, don't really need the extra hit, because their class gets 10% bonus. However a lot of other sword users are left worse off, considering that an A weapon level does not increase a sword's accuracy. So, for example, a brave axe will have a higher hit rate than a brave sword, because of the 15% bonus.

But then again, I'm used to using horsemen, who have naturally low stats and no class bonus. Using a horseman without forging hit is a big mistake.

[Rakath]

Horseman still have a pretty high Skill cap, and Swords needed the extra might way more than the extra Hit. Actually, none of the Sword classes have a lack of Skill cap to worry on, just maybe issues of not getting near their cap due to poor unit choice. Since Hero has that beautiful (but 26 Speed makes it worthless) 30, Horsemen and Paladin stand tall with 28, and even Falco has its respectable 25.

Also, I thought the Hitrate buff vanished in a Triangle advantage (so the 15 Buff for Axes is meaningless against a Sword user)?

Supports do show up from time to time, but they won't mess with the number crunching I've done unless they have supports AND a rediculous Luck growth, which most don't see in concert. Only 15 units have an average over 18. I suppose someone that RNGs a lot might get higher but... Picking a team just to work out the best Evade rates seems like a lot of work...

[Robert]

Forging braves-

I was able to forge 4 of them with about 300,000.

Do not max forge- I.e >100 hit chance.

since the avo is terrible, forge to 100 hit chance, and max mt only.

As for crit, I just use dazzle and save the money...

[Shinobi]

Thanks for your responses everyone! So is it a consensus that for maximum efficiency Brave weapons should have a forged hit rate of 100?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Thanks for your responses everyone! So is it a consensus that for maximum efficiency Brave weapons should have a forged hit rate of 100?

Pretty much. If you have the patience and don't feel like ever seeing hit rates that aren't 100%, go for max hit. It's up to you.

Edited March 16, 2009 by Sirius

[Rakath]

To prep a Wi-Fi team here's the cost per Brave weapon (Max Might, 100 Hit, no Crit or Weight adjust):

Brave Sword/Bow - (2,400 Per sword/bow, 79,200 per Forge, 81,600 total)

Brave Lance - (2,700 Per Lance, 95,850 per Forge, 98,550 total)

Brave Axe - (2,100 per axe, 69,300 per Forge, 71,400 total)

If you know the numbers before getting to an Arena chapter you can prep there with a goal in mind.

However depending on you team, you should plan on making a few Hand Axes (cheap as heck, but good to have), Longbows (not as bad as a Brave, but still a fair bit o gold), Javelins (if you have more than 1 Lancer, cheap but effective), and Thoron (if you have a Sage or Sorcerer, only needs Might). Levin if you do a Magic Swordsman, but that relies on raising one of your Mages then Swapping them into Swordmaster when they will have 20 Magic as a Swordsman (it's valuable as you have a Magic user with 30 Speed).

Edited March 16, 2009 by Rakath