FE9 Tier List

[Colonel M]

The gauge is a minor issue for him. Though looking at it clearly, he does have a slight offensive issue as you've said. Just hitting 26 Atk with the transformation... damn. An Energy Ring would help him close in on some ORKOes, but yeah I get the point now. Sort of.

EDIT: He could use a little bit of BEXP + KW to help it a bit, but it could be salvagable. 26 Atk with a 55% growth, 60 with the KW. He's guaranteed +1 HP every level up, but at least you can manipulate the Str a little bit. Could be using up too much BEXP though since he acts like a 20/8 Beorc.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Colonel M

[-Cynthia-]

The gauge is a minor issue for him. Though looking at it clearly, he does have a slight offensive issue as you've said. Just hitting 26 Atk with the transformation... damn. An Energy Ring would help him close in on some ORKOes, but yeah I get the point now. Sort of.

EDIT: He could use a little bit of BEXP + KW to help it a bit, but it could be salvagable. 26 Atk with a 55% growth, 60 with the KW. He's guaranteed +1 HP every level up, but at least you can manipulate the Str a little bit. Could be using up too much BEXP though since he acts like a 20/8 Beorc.

Well his gauge issue is basically that he's useless past turn 5 sans Demi Band. I don't really understand your KW point, do you mean a Str boosting band?

And yeah, Janaff uses a lot of BEXP and/or Energy Drops to even approach ORKOing things, every character above him curbstomps him in offense to various degrees. The only character I could really see Janaff being better than is Tauroneo, since Taur shows up later, moves slower, has no real supports just like Janaff, and has similar offensive issues (his due to not doubling instead of low Str, although this is more easily fixed with a Brave).

Edited July 3, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Colonel M]

In response he's usually 2RKOing and can survive two rounds with just about anyone, so as far as that goes he doesn't ultimately have trouble killing if you consider both Player Phase and Enemy Phase combined. Then again, the gauge by Turn 5 might be enough to do him in.

EDIT: *FACEDESK*. I meant Knight Band or w/e offers +5% Spd and Str. >_>; KW? What the fuck was I thinking?

EDIT2: Nvm. I meant any Band that offers +5% Str. God I'm way off today.

Someone shoot me in the foot right now.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Colonel M

[Dr. Tarrasque]

In response he's usually 2RKOing and can survive two rounds with just about anyone, so as far as that goes he doesn't ultimately have trouble killing if you consider both Player Phase and Enemy Phase combined. Then again, the gauge by Turn 5 might be enough to do him in.

EDIT: *FACEDESK*. I meant Knight Band or w/e offers +5% Spd and Str. >_>; KW? What the fuck was I thinking?

EDIT2: Nvm. I meant any Band that offers +5% Str. God I'm way off today.

Someone shoot me in the foot right now.

*Shoots*

Jill > Kieran.

Slow day today as Gatrie > Ranulf sees no opposition... Any1 disagree with that change at all?

Edited July 3, 2009 by Sirius

[Colonel M]

You are a cruel man. ;_;

I think Gatrie > Ranulf is good.

[Vykan12]

A 17/0 Jill with a speedwing has 15 AS. In chapter 17 alone that doubles fighters, mages, knights, certain archers, soldiers, basically all cavaliers and wyverns. The only thing she won't double are myrmidons, but even then she does get some horrifically weighed down ones. Assuming she hits promotion by 18, now she has 18 AS to accompany a 45% growth, so her doubling issues are basically gone.

The fact that Jill reaches enemies much sooner than Kieran compensates for whatever statistical leads he might have IMO since they're pretty close in that regard.

[grandjackal]

I dunno, I could see Janaff at least above Tormod. Flight with that move advantage is pretty nifty. On the other hand, those above him...

Largo-Isn't he having trouble one rounding as well, coming late with that shitty wind support no one wants/all his supports are likely taken anwyays? Certainly flight, move advantage and thunder affinity alone is better than what little Largo brings.

Tormod-If someone downs resources to get good more than Janaff...

Mia- All that garbage, and then Janaff shows up with more move and better durability along with flight. Lolpwnd?

Gatrie- Janff can't possibly be so easy to kill that Gatrie's durability makes up for anything Janaff can do? Certainly his offense and move don't make up for it.

Ranulf- Janaff has flight, better transformation deal, and is generally the same while coming earlier, along with an actually existing support list where people might actually want Janaff.

Haar- Similar deal, Janaff comes earlier, Janaff don't need a brave axe that others can use.

Sothe-Uhhh...I wouldn't consider thief utility makes up for...him...Especially since there is in no way Janaff doesn't devastate this putz.

Tauroneo-Same problems, needs to get injured to go into killface mode, MAJOR move difference, Janaff's supports are at least better people than Tauroneo's list...

I could see him having problems getting above Devden. His offense might not be hot, and gauge might be a problem, but flight, keeping up with the meaty part of the army, insta-transform and being an actually good option for a support certainly helps set him leagues apart from captain slow Ulki.

I forget, to the hawks have canto or no?

Edited July 3, 2009 by Pretty Boi Wolf

[Shadow Mir]

I dunno, I could see Janaff at least above Tormod. Flight with that move advantage is pretty nifty. On the other hand, those above him...

Largo-Isn't he having trouble one rounding as well, coming late with that shitty wind support no one wants/all his supports are likely taken anwyays? Certainly flight, move advantage and thunder affinity alone is better than what little Largo brings.

Tormod-If someone downs resources to get good more than Janaff...

Mia- All that garbage, and then Janaff shows up with more move and better durability along with flight. Lolpwnd?

Gatrie- Janff can't possibly be so easy to kill that Gatrie's durability makes up for anything Janaff can do? Certainly his offense and move don't make up for it.

Ranulf- Janaff has flight, better transformation deal, and is generally the same while coming earlier, along with an actually existing support list where people might actually want Janaff.

Haar- Similar deal, Janaff comes earlier, Janaff don't need a brave axe that others can use.

Sothe-Uhhh...I wouldn't consider thief utility makes up for...him...Especially since there is in no way Janaff doesn't devastate this putz.

Tauroneo-Same problems, needs to get injured to go into killface mode, MAJOR move difference, Janaff's supports are at least better people than Tauroneo's list...

I could see him having problems getting above Devden. His offense might not be hot, and gauge might be a problem, but flight, keeping up with the meaty part of the army, insta-transform and being an actually good option for a support certainly helps set him leagues apart from captain slow Ulki.

I forget, to the hawks have canto or no?

As to that... I can at least see Janaff above Mia.

And no, the hawks don't have move again.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[-Cynthia-]

Largo-Isn't he having trouble one rounding as well, coming late with that shitty wind support no one wants/all his supports are likely taken anwyays? Certainly flight, move advantage and thunder affinity alone is better than what little Largo brings.

Largo has a lot more offense than Janaff, plus other stuff like 1-2 range and again, no gauge.

Tormod-If someone downs resources to get good more than Janaff..

I frankly think Tormod is a little overrated ATM, so I'll leave this to someone else

Mia- All that garbage, and then Janaff shows up with more move and better durability along with flight. Lolpwnd?

Look at previous posts, Mia has a pretty big offensive lead over Janaff and by this point her durability is good enough that it doesn't offset this.

Gatrie- Janff can't possibly be so easy to kill that Gatrie's durability makes up for anything Janaff can do? Certainly his offense and move don't make up for it.

There's also Gatrie's 3.5 earlygame chapters of win, as well as Gatrie's 9 maps before Janaff arrives where he's hardly detrimental. Gatrie with a Brave also beats Janaff in offense and even without it's pretty close.

Ranulf- Janaff has flight, better transformation deal, and is generally the same while coming earlier, along with an actually existing support list where people might actually want Janaff.

Why are we fielding Shinon/Lucia again? I think Ranulf has more of a chance of nabbing B Lethe or something than Janaff does of getting anyone. The main reasoning is that Ranulf does about 7 more damage per attack, 14 more when both double.

Haar- Similar deal, Janaff comes earlier, Janaff don't need a brave axe that others can use.

Existent supports, 1-2 range, Canto, no gauge.

Sothe-Uhhh...I wouldn't consider thief utility makes up for...him...Especially since there is in no way Janaff doesn't devastate this putz.

Refer to the list of all the things stealing can get you, except stuff in Ch10, Sothe is only slightly inferior to Volke in terms of obtaining stuff.

I forget, to the hawks have canto or no?

Not in FE9.

Flight also gives Janaff a bow weakness, which cuts into his durability, especially against ballistae. And while his gauge is arguably the best, he's still completely useless past turn 5 on every map (without the Demi Band), which is a major issue.

I think the hawks are fine where they are.

Edited July 3, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Shadow Mir]

Look at previous posts, Mia has a pretty big offensive lead over Janaff and by this point her durability is good enough that it doesn't offset this.

Methinks you simply swept Mia's earlygame suck under a rug. Also, she doesn't have any good supports since all of them are one-way, and that's ignoring the fact that all of them also have better partners.

[Colonel M]

Largo has a lot more offense than Janaff, plus other stuff like 1-2 range and again, no gauge.

And a major difference in amount of chapters.

I frankly think Tormod is a little overrated ATM, so I'll leave this to someone else

K

Look at previous posts, Mia has a pretty big offensive lead over Janaff and by this point her durability is good enough that it doesn't offset this.

We also have to put up with Mia's underwhelming earlygame and she's barely passing midgame (20/1 Mia has about similair Avoid but still a difference in durability). With a forged Steel Sword she has 1 Atk more than base Janaff + a little more with supports, though it pends slightly on the combination.

There's also Gatrie's 3.5 earlygame chapters of win, as well as Gatrie's 9 maps before Janaff arrives where he's hardly detrimental. Gatrie with a Brave also beats Janaff in offense and even without it's pretty close.

Gatrie's main flaw is the Mov issue, but I dunno how well Janaff can compete with this.

Why are we fielding Shinon/Lucia again? I think Ranulf has more of a chance of nabbing B Lethe or something than Janaff does of getting anyone. The main reasoning is that Ranulf does about 7 more damage per attack, 14 more when both double.

Uncle Ranulf also starts with 10 gauge, which roughly means 3 turns to kick into transformation to Janaff's one.

Existent supports, 1-2 range, Canto, no gauge.

Availability taken into consideration?

Refer to the list of all the things stealing can get you, except stuff in Ch10, Sothe is only slightly inferior to Volke in terms of obtaining stuff.

Durability is a possibility of getting in the way. Keep in mind that a Level 9 Sothe is comparable to base Volke defensively (with Blossom) and obviously has less Str.

Flight also gives Janaff a bow weakness, which cuts into his durability, especially against ballistae. And while his gauge is arguably the best, he's still completely useless past turn 5 on every map (without the Demi Band), which is a major issue.

Yes, but this also counts for anyone that flies (bow-wise). The Demi-Band is a slight issue, but I'd rather take that > Full Guard. Besides, it's usually that we field only 1-2 Laguz anyway unless we want to become the Griel Mercifurries.

I think the hawks are fine where they are.

I don't care about Ulki, but I slightly disagree on Janaff. Not to the point where I'll get hellbent on raising him or not.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Colonel M

[-Cynthia-]

Methinks you simply swept Mia's earlygame suck under a rug. Also, she doesn't have any good supports since all of them are one-way, and that's ignoring the fact that all of them also have better partners.

Mia doesn't have such a great earlygame, but we can always compensate lackluster CEXP with BEXP. Mia's accumulating some positive utility through midgame, so her time before Janaff joins just about balances out.

Rhys doesn't have better partners. Ulki and Rolf? If Rhys is in play, Mia gets him. Ilyana would prefer Mordy and Zihark, but if they aren't in play/full, she'll take Mia. Mia also can get Largo if he's in play, since I doubt were fielding Tauroneo and Muarim has a slot open.

Janaff won't be supporting Shinon and Lucia since we aren't using them, and Oscar is going to be full. Add in the fact that Mia is providing supports for the 12 chapters Janaff isn't around and it's clear she's the better support partner. I've already been over this though, if you would actually read. Mia isn't the greatest supporter, but she's better than Janaff.

[Colonel M]

So if I'm fielding either someone like Largo, Ilyana, etc, what exactly is completely walling me from fielding one of Shinon (with your argument he makes decent use of BEXP too) or Lucia (who I will admit isn't stellar but is at least passable).

Add in the fact that Mia is providing supports for the 12 chapters Janaff isn't around and it's clear she's the better support partner.

Ilyana has a wide number of options, but I dunno about this one so much. She doesn't help with Rhys's main problem (durability) and for a while the support is more one-sided toward her. Obviously this argument doesn't fly with Largo.

Janaff actually offers something to his support partners. All of them obtain Avoid and with B minimum it's +1 Def, for Shinon it's +2.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Colonel M

[Shadow Mir]

Mia doesn't have such a great earlygame, but we can always compensate lackluster CEXP with BEXP. Mia's accumulating some positive utility through midgame, so her time before Janaff joins just about balances out.

Rhys doesn't have better partners. Ulki and Rolf? If Rhys is in play, Mia gets him. Ilyana would prefer Mordy and Zihark, but if they aren't in play/full, she'll take Mia. Mia also can get Largo if he's in play, since I doubt were fielding Tauroneo and Muarim has a slot open.

Janaff won't be supporting Shinon and Lucia since we aren't using them, and Oscar is going to be full. Add in the fact that Mia is providing supports for the 12 chapters Janaff isn't around and it's clear she's the better support partner. I've already been over this though, if you would actually read. Mia isn't the greatest supporter, but she's better than Janaff.

Way to miss the point. No matter who Mia supports, her partner gets the short end of the stick. Rhys? He already has good offense. Extra attack and hit do him no good whatsoever. His problems lie in durability.

As for Largo, offense isn't his problem; Defense is. Regarding Ilyana, I don't see either of the ladies wanting more hit, since that's about all they get out of it (Ilyana especially).

[Vykan12]

I just found out that archer str is ignored when they use a ballista. So if a ballista attacked a base level Haar, it'd only do 16/47 damage (a 3HKO). I believe Cynthia claimed it was a 2HKO and that it really hurt his utility in the mountain chapter.

[Shadow Mir]

I just found out that archer str is ignored when they use a ballista. So if a ballista attacked a base level Haar, it'd only do 16/47 damage (a 3HKO). I believe Cynthia claimed it was a 2HKO and that it really hurt his utility in the mountain chapter.

Well, an Iron Ballista can two-shot him. (24/47) Though if he gains a point in Defense, he can survive two shots.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[Dat Nick]

Effective coefficent is x2 in FE9, remember.

[-Cynthia-]

Well, an Iron Ballista can two-shot him. (24/47) Though if he gains a point in Defense, he can survive two shots.

Yeah, most of the Ballistae on 23/24/25 are the more powerful Ballistae IIRC. A Long Ballista still 2HKOs Haar, and the bit about the Killer Ballista still applies. It doesn't change too much about the Haar comparisons, since 2 shots and another attack will still kill him.

But anyway, the point is that Rhys and Largo vastly prefer Mia over nothing, which is the point people seem to fail to grasp. Yes, Rhys and Largo would prefer partners that give them durability, but those partners are unlikely to be fielded or are full, so Mia's giving them a boost. They aren't getting the 'short end of the stick' because there's probably nothing on the other end.

And yeah Janaff has a slight availability lead on those over him, but it's usually fairly minor (5 chapters over Haar/Ranulf for instance). I could see him over Largo/Mia honestly, but not moving out of Low.

Edited July 3, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Colonel M]

And yeah Janaff has a slight availability lead on those over him, but it's usually fairly minor (5 chapters over Haar/Ranulf for instance). I could see him over Largo/Mia honestly, but not moving out of Low.

Not aiming high, but about the top of Low is fine by me.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Colonel M

[Shadow Mir]

Speaking of Rhys, why is Ilyana below him? Wasn't she supposed to be above him?

Edited July 4, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Speaking of Rhys, why is Ilyana below him? Wasn't she supposed to be above him?

Enemies are shitty later in the game and your allies are just... powerful. Thus, there's less healing to be done and it strikes a few points off Ilyana. Her leads was some slight combat above Rhys. I only looked base on stats though and it's very possible that she may go below Calill but I"m currently looking into this as I have doubts on how much Calill is actually doing in the late game with 6 MOV. So far it just seems little and most action being the siege tomes.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Sirius

[Shadow Mir]

Enemies are shitty later in the game and your allies are just... powerful. Thus, there's less healing to be done and it strikes a few points off Ilyana. Her leads was some slight combat above Rhys. I only looked base on stats though and it's very possible that she may go below Calill but I"m currently looking into this as I have doubts on how much Calill is actually doing in the late game with 6 MOV. So far it just seems little and most action being the siege tomes.

Okay. What's your stance on Mia vs. Janaff? I could see Janaff above her mainly because of Mia being lackluster early on.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Okay. What's your stance on Mia vs. Janaff? I could see Janaff above her mainly because of Mia being lackluster early on.

I'm inclined to agree to with Cynthia on this one.

[-Cynthia-]

Enemies are shitty later in the game and your allies are just... powerful. Thus, there's less healing to be done and it strikes a few points off Ilyana. Her leads was some slight combat above Rhys. I only looked base on stats though and it's very possible that she may go below Calill but I"m currently looking into this as I have doubts on how much Calill is actually doing in the late game with 6 MOV. So far it just seems little and most action being the siege tomes.

In addition to siege tomes there are the A rank tomes, Ilyana/Soren lose a lot of AS from these, Callil doesn't. Yeah a forge is generally about as good, but being less dependent on forges works in Callil's favor.

Combat wise, Callil usually has a 2-3 AS lead over Ilyana, which can be pretty important. Callil also has much better Def growth, so she has a concrete durability lead as well. I would argue that Callil's the better support partner, her partners actually want her, while Ilyana's partners generally have other people that give better bonuses.

Ilyana does have staves and availability (which she doesn't make very good use of, at least at first), so it's a close call.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I'm well aware of Calill's stat leads. What I question is just how often she'll be able to apply them for efficiency. C25 (and that stupid priest heavy chapter if we're going for max BEXP) is no issue but in the other chapters, I find that she's going to need to be carried by a mounted unit with Canto or for the player to slow down his/her team's movement so she can actually see some action... that I don't consider to be a good thing.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Sirius