Florete Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'm not trying to give Soren more points; I think Red Fox is not covering all the bases. Well, as I said in the OP, I'm not perfect. I do forget things. Usually if I forget to mention something it's because it's not highly significant to begin with. Soren's bonus damage on Dracos could be seen as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sol does activate at range, but its only if you're using a bow with Oscar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) eh whatever I found Soren's thunder magic to be useful in the maps where WKs appear while playing through... Titania is essentially Oscar but with a worse affinity and doing 7 more damage. If Oscar is the epitome of an average character, how is Titania a 9.5? Edited June 16, 2009 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Oscar is an above average character, and I'm sure Red Fox's rating will reflect this(expecting 7.5 or 8). An average character is more like Brom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Sol's horrible? It doesn't activate at range and it's only Skill/2%, but it's not really worse than most other masteires, it heals at least. What mastery is it better than? Bane? Even with that one, the Whispers have higher activation rates due to having more SKL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) What mastery is it better than? Bane? Even with that one, the Whispers have higher activation rates due to having more SKL. Astra, Lethality, and Deadeye have the same activation formula, but don't heal. And it's betetr than Bane. Edited June 16, 2009 by -Cynthia- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Masteries aren't ranked based on their skill activation. If they were, than Lethality would suck, but that's false, right? Masteries are ranked based on their effects as well. Flare and Sol are good masteries because of this. They both KO and regain health for the user. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Astra and Deadeye have the same activation formula, but don't heal. And it's betetr than Bane. Astra and Bane are on people with godly SKL stats, and that consistently double, which tends to mitigate that downside completely. I already said that Sol was better than Bane. Do you always answer rhetorical qustions? Masteries aren't ranked based on their skill activation. If they were, than Lethality would suck, but that's false, right? Masteries are ranked based on their effects as well. Flare and Sol are good masteries because of this. They both KO and regain health for the user. Awesome. They are not ranked solely on their skill activation, but it's a large part of their usefulness. Consider that biorhythm can screw Sol so badly that it has leik a 7% chance to fire for Titania, even at max SKL. Half-stat masteries are not reliable. How many times does Flare or Sol firw when you're not hurt? How many times does it fail to work when it's needed? Give me a Luna or an Impale, plz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yeah... but Flare doesn't have the whole Skill/2% activation so... But I get the point anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolanmen1 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I agree with Red Fox of Fire, Soren is a overrated character. Survival is the most important thing in this game, and doubling is another important fact. He can't defend himself in enemy phase and also if he dies that means he can't counter enemies, and even that if he could survive he will hardly double them. Edited June 16, 2009 by Rolanmen1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Flare doesn't instantly toast anything. I'll concede that Oscar isn't "only average," but he certainly isn't stellar by any means. If he's comparable to Titania, there's no way she gets a 9.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Flare negates Res. Since the guy attacking is third tier, he should be KOing these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Flare doesn't triple attack while quintupling damage and negating res twice. I've had instances where Flare did not OHKO enemies. Given that many magic users have doubling issues in endgame, Flare does not even solve offensive problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Flare doesn't triple attack while quintupling damage and negating res twice.I've had instances where Flare did not OHKO enemies. Given that many magic users have doubling issues in endgame, Flare does not even solve offensive problems. Max Mag unit holding anything should OHKO most enemies. Unless for some reason the Spirits have Nihil, Flare would OHKO with a something like Fire equipped since Spirits have 40 HP max. Even beforehand, the enemy would have to have a sick amount of HP in order to prevent that and pretty low Magic (this being the magic user). Edited June 16, 2009 by Colonel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'm thinking more of dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do agree that Soren is overrated, but he's still pretty good. I think a four is a little harsh, especially with Titania getting a 9.5. I think both are being exaggerated, but then again, I also think of some characters very differently from other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan12 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yeah... but Flare doesn't have the whole Skill/2% activation so... Flare is skill%. It's a shame it doesn't help mage durability much in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The magic user probably doubles them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Calill > Soren is laughable. Neither double, but Soren has like 50 million more att. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Calill > Soren is laughable.Neither double, but Soren has like 50 million more att. Rather a gross overstatement. 20/1 Callil has 2 more Spd, 2 less Mag than 20/1 Soren. 20/11 Callil hits her speed cap of 32 and has 31.5 Mag. Soren has 28.5 Spd, and 5.5 more Mag. Callil's Rexflame gives her additional +3 Spd to dobule auras with Nasir's help, Soren's Rexcalibur gives him +3 Lck so he can have worse Avo boost compared to Callil and a lower Mt tome. So while Callil hold significant speed leads over Soren, his Mag lead falls somewhat short of 50 million. Callil's the better Endgame candidate since she can double auras. Soren's taking up the spot of a better GM (anybody but debatably Rolf, Kyza, or Lethe) while Callil is pretty average compared to the rest of the CRK's and can easily gain Paragon use for 3-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Cynthia, Smash loves using "50 million" or any other large number, like: Aran has "insert horrendously large number here" more attack than Nephenee, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Did you take into account that Calill starts at L6 while Soren does at L5, but that Soren has about five times her availability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Did you take into account that Calill starts at L6 while Soren does at L5, but that Soren has about five times her availability? There is that to take into account, I was just comparing them at equal levels for simplicity. Note though, Soren a lot more quality units to share with compared to Callil, while Callil has two chapters that give a lot of CEXP, one with easy Paragon access. Soren should have a level lead, but not a huge one, and Callil should make up the differences quickly due to being underleveled. Edited June 16, 2009 by -Cynthia- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Soren also has chapters where he's not taking up a unit slot and therefore isn't really competing. I wouldn't quite call 2-E rich in CEXP for Calill, because she can't afford to be doing much, if any enemy phase action. This means that she's limited to basically 15 attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Soren not taking up a unit slot? What? Ike is the only unit forced in part 3 except for Ranulf in 3-4, 3-7, 3-8, 3-10 and 3-E. Soren is never forced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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