Dynamic growth rates

[VincentASM]

Links

• Semi-public page
  
• Pikaroom's documentation (in Japanese)
  

I think it would probably be a better idea if I actually did some new work on this subject before re-posting it, but oh well.

Summary

Dynamic growth rates (if you can think of a better name, please tell me) are added whenever a Level Up occurs.

Total growth rates = character's personal growth rates + their class growth rates + dynamic growth rates

If a stat fails to increase during a Level Up, 10% of the stat's total growth rate [not counting existing dynamic growth rates], at the time of failure, is added to the stat's dynamic growth rate. So if the total growth rate was 30%, the dynamic growth rate added would be 3%. If any decimals are present, the game rounds them down for Level Ups, but keeps a record of them for future dynamic growth rate addition/subtraction.

Conversely, if a stat successfully increases during a Level Up, 10% of the stat's total growth rate [not counting existing dynamic growth rates], at the time of success, is deducted from the stat's dynamic growth rate. However if the dynamic growth rates are negative, the game will treat them as 0 during Level Ups, but will remember their true value for future dynamic growth rate addition/subtraction.

As one can see, the existence of dynamic growth rates leads to character's growth rates subtly changing all the time, hence the term "dynamic".

Consequences

These extra growths can account for why 0% growth rates yield stat ups. Dynamic growth rates factor in reclassing- so if a character Levelled Up in a class with a total non-zero growth rate in a stat (say, a Res growth of 10%), it would be possible for them to raise that stat in a class where it is 0% (in this case, the total, effective growth rate would be 1%, but it's still more than 0%).

For +2 stat ups, it's more trickier. Since you'd usually need to have a string of Level Ups with failed stat increases in order to gain a +2 in the end. Which isn't very likely, but still possible I guess...

Some data

MAGE GROWTHS: ALL 9%
CURATE GROWTHS: ALL 99%

MAGE LEVEL UP: ALL +0

NEXT, CURATE LEVEL UP:

I = ALL +1

IIIII
IIIII
IIIII
I0III NO MAG
IIIII
IIIII
IIIII
0---- NO RES

CONCLUSION: DYNAMIC GROWTHS ARE ROUNDED DOWN

MAGE GROWTHS: ALL 9%
CURATE GROWTHS: ALL 99%

MAGE LEVEL UPS:
LEVEL 2 NONE (TOTAL DGROWTH = +0.9)
LEVEL 3 NONE (TOTAL DGROWTH = +1.8)
LEVEL 4 NONE (TOTAL DGROWTH = +2.7)
LEVEL 5 NONE (TOTAL DGROWTH = +3.6)

NEXT, CURATE LEVEL UP:

I = ALL +1

IIIII
III00 2 STR / 2 LCK
IIIII
III0I 2 MAG
IIIII
I00II 2 HP / 2 SPD
IIIII
IIIII
II0-- 2 HP 2 RES

CONCLUSION: GAME KEEPS RECORD OF DYNAMIC GROWTH DECIMALS FOR FUTURE USE

(I'll try and post some more later. Maybe...)

Future work

Everything seems to be going smoothly until I try and do some simple tests with Curate growths all set to 90% and Mage growths all set to 62% (Wrys's growths are all set to 0%).

No matter what I do, I can't seem to get a good agreement with my previous tests. Basically something odd is happening (or some things), but I don't know what's causing it. Unless my ROM is screwed up (which wouldn't be too surprising).

CURATE LEVEL 2: ALL EXCEPT STR
MAGE LEVEL 3  : HP SKL SPD UP
 LEVEL 4  : DEF UP

HP  -9 -6 +6 = 0
STR +9 +6 +6 = 27
MAG -9 +6 +6 = 3
SKL -9 -6 +6 = 0
SPD -9 -6 +6 = 0
LCK -9 +6 +6 = 3
DEF -9 +6 -6 = 0
RES -9 +6 +6 = 3

NON +1 BEHAVIOUR:

HP  0
STR 2
MAG 2 !!!
SKL 0
SPD 0
LCK 2 !!!
DEF 0
RES 2 !!![

CONCLUSION: 90 + 3 CAN'T BE OVER 100 SO WTF?

(That's just one oddity that I can't understand. It probably won't be helpful to anybody though ^^;;;)

When I'm not so lazy, I'll probably try again with a clean ROM. Maybe check some of my older tests as well (eg. re-confirming the 10% addition, dgrowth additions/subtractions etc.). I know not much people are going to care about the exact specifics, but it's kind of fun to figure things out... when you're not failing that is DX

Edited June 12, 2009 by VincentASM

[Rodykitty]

Conversely, if a stat successfully increases during a Level Up, 10% of the stat's total growth rate [not counting existing dynamic growth rates], at the time of success, is deducted from the stat's dynamic growth rate. However if the dynamic growth rates are negative, the game will treat them as 0 during Level Ups, but will remember their true value for future dynamic growth rate addition/subtraction.

This is important. Are you SURE it decreases by 10%, and not just removes the extra growths altogether?

[Blacknight9]

thanks dynamic grwoth rates always confussed my until now

[No problem, but you don't need to quote me ^^]

Edited June 12, 2009 by VincentASM

[VincentASM]

This is important. Are you SURE it decreases by 10%, and not just removes the extra growths altogether?

Pikaroom seems to say all dynamic growths are removed after a stat up, but I don't think that's the case.

Eg.

PERSONAL GROWTHS ONLY

70% WRYS 0% CURATE

LEVEL 2: HP SKL SPD DEF RES UP
LEVEL 3: HP SKL SPD RES UP
LEVEL 4: HP MAG DEF UP
LEVEL 5: HP STR SKL DEF RES UP
LEVEL 6: HP STR SKL SPD DEF RES UP
LEVEL 7: ALL UP, LCK 2 UP *** LCK CAN GO UP BY 2 HERE
LEVEL 8: ALL UP EXCEPT LUCK
LEVEL 9: STR MAG SKL SPD DEF RES UP *** LCK SOMETIMES DOESN'T INCREASE BY 1 HERE
LEVEL 10: HP STR SKL DEF RES UP, LCK UP 2
LEVEL 11: HP STR MAG DEF RES UP

LOOK FOR LCK
				  11
HP  - - - - - - - + - -
STR + + + - - - - - - -
MAG + + - + + - - - + -
SKL - - + - - - - - - +
SPD - - + + - - - - + +
LCK + + + + + - + + - +
DEF - + - - - - - - - -
RES - - + - - - - - - -

If you look at Luck, it takes 5 dyanamic growth additions to go over 100 (70 -> 77 -> 81 -> 89 -> 96 -> 104). However, right after getting +2 Luck, you only a further two additions to have another chance of getting +2 Luck.

(Actually, I don't know if it's clearly shown there, if at all. I suppose you'll have to take my word for it ^^;;;)

That's just one situation of a few as well.

Edited June 12, 2009 by VincentASM

[Rodykitty]

Alright, I hope you're right then, since that would help out characters with weaker growths, but I am still unsure whether to actually assume it's there or not.

[luigi bros]

This is nice to know. But how do you access it on the main site?

[Meteor]

Alright, I hope you're right then, since that would help out characters with weaker growths, but I am still unsure whether to actually assume it's there or not.

Weaker growths = weaker compensations, so it's not all that helpful.

This is nice to know. But how do you access it on the main site?

It was removed but there used to be a link on this page: http://serenesforest.net/fe11/char_growth_s.html

[Rodykitty]

Weaker growths = weaker compensations, so it's not all that helpful.

They're also getting less compensation decreases per level up, so I am interested in seeing how this affects units regardless.

EDIT: If VincentASM's calculations are correct, then Astoria averages 19 speed instead of 17 at level 20. This doesn't sound right, because this is the same as most character's Defense growths, which would make the boosts to Def huge, but not something I see commonly happen.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Chainey

[luigi bros]

They're also getting less compensation decreases per level up, so I am interested in seeing how this affects units regardless.

EDIT: If VincentASM's calculations are correct, then Astoria averages 19 speed instead of 17 at level 20. This doesn't sound right, because this is the same as most character's Defense growths, which would make the boosts to Def huge, but not something I see commonly happen.

I didn't notice this. This could really mess up average stats for this game.

[Rodykitty]

Again, I don't see this happening consistently to Defense growths which are around 20%, and these characters get 30-40 levels to work with instead of Astoria's 20.

So I'm really doubting this is true.

[VincentASM]

How are you calculating Astram's average speed?

In any case, I thought I'd look into subtractions and additions again. As far as I can see, everything still seems to make sense.

WRYS GROWTHS: ALL 0%
MAGE GROWTHS: ALL 62%
CURATE GROWTHS: ALL 90%

LEVEL 2 MAGE: HP UP
LEVEL 3 MAGE: HP SKL LCK UP

CURATE LEVEL 4:

HP  -6 -6 = 0
STR +6 +6 = 12
MAG +6 +6 = 12
SKL +6 -6 = 0
SPD +6 +6 = 12
LCK +6 -6 = 0
DEF +6 +6 = 12
RES +6 +6 = 12

HP  0
STR
MAG 2 *** 90 + 12 = 102 > 100
SKL
SPD 2
LCK 0
DEF
RES

(CONTINUED FROM LEVEL 3 MAGE)
LEVEL 4 MAGE: ALL UP EXCEPT HP STR

CURATE LEVEL 5:

HP  -6 -6 +6 = 0
STR +6 +6 +6 = 18
MAG +6 +6 -6 = 6
SKL +6 -6 -6 = 0
SPD +6 +6 -6 = 6
LCK +6 -6 -6 = 0
DEF +6 +6 -6 = 6
RES +6 +6 -6 = 6

HP  0
STR 2
MAG
SKL 0
SPD 0
LCK 0
DEF 0 *** 90 + 0 = 90 < 100
RES

(CONTINUED FROM LEVEL 4 MAGE)
LEVEL 5 MAGE: STR SKL LCK RES UP

CURATE LEVEL 6:

HP  -6 -6 +6 +6 = 0
STR +6 +6 +6 -6 = 12
MAG +6 +6 -6 +6 = 12
SKL +6 -6 -6 -6 = 0
SPD +6 +6 -6 +6 = 12
LCK +6 -6 -6 -6 = 0
DEF +6 +6 -6 +6 = 12
RES +6 +6 -6 -6 = 0

HP  0
STR 2
MAG
SKL 0
SPD
LCK 0
DEF 2 *** 90 + 12 = 102 > 100
RES 0

In other words, the Def +2 in the last Level should be impossible if it subtracted 12 (all growths) instead of 6.

[Yarias]

I'll repost the link to the program I wrote in the old version of this thread.

It calculates accurate averages by running lots and lots of simulations.

http://www.yarias.com/misc_work/2009/StatSim.hx

[Roxas]

Holy crap... This is insane! >:P

Now all we gotta do is to sit back and wait while people DGR Abuse their units for full res...

[Rodykitty]

How are you calculating Astram's average speed?

I was doing it by hand, adding +.2 to the growth rate each failed level up and only subtracting .2 per successful level up, though I may have made some mistakes. I don't know, I no longer have what I worked with.

I plugged in Astoria's Speed stats, growth, and cap as Hero into Yarias' program and got these results:

StatSim.hx:40: Growth	  : 0.2
StatSim.hx:41: S Base	  : 14
StatSim.hx:42: S Cap	   : 26
StatSim.hx:43: L Base	  : 1
StatSim.hx:44: L Cap	   : 20
StatSim.hx:45: Compensation: on
StatSim.hx:46:
StatSim.hx:54: Stat	 Freq
StatSim.hx:59: 14	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 15	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 16	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 17	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 18	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 19	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 20	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 21	   0
StatSim.hx:59: 22	   3491
StatSim.hx:59: 23	   58188
StatSim.hx:59: 24	   35411
StatSim.hx:59: 25	   2717
StatSim.hx:59: 26	   193
StatSim.hx:78:
StatSim.hx:79: N:	   100000
StatSim.hx:80: Mean:	23.37933
StatSim.hx:81: Sterr:   0.00192660962

Astoria most frequently scores 23 Speed according to this, which is an even more huge boost than doing it by hand.

[VincentASM]

I'm sure something's wrong there.

His Speed growth is 20% right? Taking 10% of that gives 0.2%. Even in the impossible situation of failing 19 Speed ups his total Speed growth will change to [20% + 19 x 0.2% =] 23.8%.

19 Levels with a 23.8% growth gives an average Speed addition of 4.522 - compared to 3.8 for a Speed growth of 20% (i.e a difference of around 0.7 Speed).

Admittedly, it's a very crude (and impossible) calculation that I did there, so I could be wrong.

EDIT

Nevermind, I screwed up there.

Holy crap... This is insane! >:P

Now all we gotta do is to sit back and wait while people DGR Abuse their units for full res...

Oh yeah, that reminds me. It seems if the character has a default growth of 0% in a stat, even with dynamic growths added, they won't be able to consecutively gain stats in that area.

I tried it with Curate!Cain failing Res 7 times in a row. Then I reclassed him to Cavalier where his total Res growth should be 0 + 7 x 3.5 = 21%. On his first and second Cavalier Level Ups he can increase Res. However on his third one, his Res growth seems to have vanished. Also the statistics seem to fit better to a ~11% Res growth instead of 21% (i.e around half).

Not too sure what's causing it. Maybe dynamic growths are averaged somewhat?

Edited June 14, 2009 by VincentASM

[Roxas]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. It seems if the character has a default growth of 0% in a stat, even with dynamic growths added, they won't be able to consecutively gain stats in that area.

I tried it with Curate!Cain failing Res 7 times in a row. Then I reclassed him to Cavalier where his total Res growth should be 0 + 7 x 3.5 = 21%. On his first and second Cavalier Level Ups he can increase Res. However on his third one, his Res growth seems to have vanished. Also the statistics seem to fit better to a ~11% Res growth instead of 21% (i.e around half).

Not too sure what's causing it. Maybe dynamic growths are averaged somewhat?

It would seem so. It's probably a failsafe, as if they were exposed this easily, dynamic growths would have been observed a while ago. :P

Maybe take a character to 20/20 and record all of the data you get on Dynamic growths there. Long-term experiments should yield better data than just 8 levels or so.

[Yarias]

There could potentially still be bugs in the program I wrote. I'll look into it later this weekend.

[Rodykitty]

There could potentially still be bugs in the program I wrote. I'll look into it later this weekend.

Roshe should not be almost always capping speed with compensation growths. There are definitely bugs and it really shows when you input low growths like that.

...

I have decided to do my own test to see how compensation growths will affect a character. I arena abused Wendell as a Dragon Knight to --/20, and recorded compensation growths as I got stats upon leveling up. Eventually my --/20 stats looked like this:

HP 29

Str 11

Mag 1

Ski 11

Spd 23 (Capped)

Luck 7

Def 15

Res 6

These are obviously blessed stats if you know what his stats as a Dragon Knight looks "normally".

Here are the growth compensations, recorded after every level up:

Lv - HP,	ST,	SK,	SP,	LK,  DF,	RS
L1 - +0,	+0,	+0,   +0,	+0,  +0,	+0
L2 - +0,	+.1,  +.2,   +0,   +.4,  +0,	+.15
L3 - +.5,   +.2,   +0, +.25,	+0,  +.15,  +.3
L4 - +1.0,  +.3,   +0,  +.5,   +.4,  +.30,  +.15
L5 - +1.5,  +.4,   +0, +.75,   +.8,  +.45,  +0
L6 - +2,	+.5,  +.2,  +.5,  +1.2,  +.60,  +.15
L7 - +2.5,  +.4,  +.4, +.25,  +1.6,  +.45,  +.3
L8 - +3,	+.5,  +.6,  +.5,	+2,  +.60,  +.45
L9 - +2.5,  +.4,  +.8, +.75,  +1.6,  +.75,  +.60
10 - +3,	+.5,  +.6,  +.5,  +1.2,  +.90,  +.75
11 - +2.5,  +.6,  +.8, +.25,  +1.6, +1.05,  +.90
12 - +2,	+.7,   +1,  +.5,	+2, +1.20, +1.05
13 - +1.5,  +.8, +1.2, +.75,  +2.4, +1.35, +1.20
14 - +2,	+.9,   +1,  +.5,	+2,  +1.5, +1.35
15 - +1.5,   +1, +1.2, +.75,  +2.4, +1.65, +1.50
16 - +1,   +1.1, +1.4,  +.5,	+2, +1.80, +1.65
17 -  +.5,   +1, +1.6, +.75,  +2.4, +1.65, +1.80
18 - +1,   +1.1, +1.4,  +.5,  +2.8, +1.80, +1.65
19 - +1.5, +1.2, +1.6, +.75,  +3.2, +1.95, +1.80

Note that these are differences in growth rates only, so they apply to the next level up (it is why I never recorded level 20).

Then I decided to try applying these growth differences to averages straight up, to see what the average stats look like... Sure enough...

L1 20,	8,	 5,	15,	 1,	 12,	 3

L2 20.5,  8.1,   5.2,  15.25,  1.4,   12.15,  3.15

L3 21,	8.21,  5.42, 15.5,   1.84,  12.3,   3.315

L4 21.55, 8.33,  5.62, 15.775, 2.24,  12.465, 3.645

L5 22.15, 8.46,  5.82, 16.105, 2.68,  12.645, 3.960

L6 22.80, 8.60,  6.02, 16.43,  3.16,  12.84,  4.260

L7 23.50, 8.75,  6.24, 16.73,  3.68,  13.05,  4.44

L8 24.25, 8.89,  6.48, 17.005, 4.24,  13.245, 4.62

L9 24.78, 9.04,  6.74, 17.305, 4.66,  13.455, 4.815

10 25.53, 9.18,  7.02, 17.63,  5.22,  13.68,  5.025

11 26.33, 9.33,  7.28, 17.93,  5.74,  13.83,  5.25

12 27.08, 9.49,  7.56, 18.205, 6.30,  14.085, 5.49

13 27.78, 9.66,  7.86, 18.505, 6.90,  14.355, 5.745

14 28.43, 9.84,  8.18, 18.83,  7.54,  14.640, 6.015

15 29.13, 10.03, 8.48, 19.13,  8.14,  14.94,  6.30

16 29.78, 10.23, 8.80, 19.455, 8.78,  15.255, 6.60

17 30.38, 10.44, 9.14, 19.755, 9.38,  15.585, 6.915

18 30.94, 10.64, 9.50, 20.08,  10.02, 15.90,  7.245

19 31.54, 10.85, 9.84, 20.38,  10.70, 16.23,  7.56

20 32.19, 11.07, 10.1, 20.605, 11.42, 16.575, 7.97

My Wendel has 3 less HP, same Str, 1 more Ski, 3 More Spd, 4 less luck, and 1 less Def & Res than these "averages".

So assuming dynamic growths do work in the way presented, this means that they are accurate for the Wendell I have gotten, and then the RNG screwed some stats.

[Rodykitty]

Either my Astoria got hugely RNG screwed, or the dynamic growths aren't working like advertised.

I got an Astoria with these stats, arena abused on NM:

HP 43

Str 15

Ski 22

Spd 17

Luck 15

Def 10

Here are the compensation growths I recorded (I made the decimal places correct this time).

Astoria's growth rates, calculated real time with real level ups as Hero
Lv - HP,	ST,	SK,   SP,	LK,	DF
L1 - +0,	+0,	+0,   +0,	+0,	+0
L2 - +0,	+0,	+0, +.02,  +.05,  +.01
L3 - +0,  +.05,	+0, +.04,   +.1,  +.02
L4 - +0,   +.1,	+0, +.06,  +.15,  +.03
L5 - +0,  +.15,	+0, +.08,   +.1,  +.04
L6 - +0,   +.05,  +.04,  +.1,  +.15,  +.05
L7 +.09,  +.10,   +.0, +.06,   +.1,  +.06
L8   +0,   +.15,  +.04,  +.08,  +.15,  +.07
L9 - +0,  +.05,  +.08, +.04,   +.1,  +.06
10 +.09,   +.0,  +.12,  +.06,  +.05,  +.07
11 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.08,   +.1,  +.08
12 - +0,   +.1,	+2, +.1,  +.15,  +.09
13 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.12,   +.1,   +.1
14 - +0,   +0,  +.12, +.08,  +.05,  +.11
15 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.1,	+0,  +.12
16 - +0,   +0,   +.2, +.12,	+0,  +.13
17 - +0,  +.05,  +.24,  +.14,	+0,  +.12
18 - +0,   +.1,  +.28, +.16,	+0,  +.13
19 - +0,  +.15,  +.24, +.18,	+0,  +.14

Here are averages done based on these extra growths.

Astoria's average stats with these applied
L1	26,	 8,	 14,	14,	 3,   8

L2  26.9,   8.5,   14.4,  14.2,   3.5,   8.1

L3  27.8,	 9,   14.8, 14.42,  4.05,   8.11

L4  28.7,  9.55,   15.2, 14.66,  4.65,   8.24

L5  29.6, 10.15,   15.6, 14.92,  5.30,   8.37

L6  30.5, 10.80,	 16, 15.20,  5.90,   8.51

L7	31, 11.40,  16.44, 15.50,  6.55,   8.66

L8 31.99, 12.05,  16.84, 15.76,  7.15,   8.82

L9 32.89, 12.75,  17.24, 16.04,  7.80,   8.99

10 33.79, 13.25,  17.72, 16.28,  8.40,   9.15

11 34.69, 13.85,  18.24, 16.54,  8.95,   9.32

12 35.59, 14.50,  18.80, 16.82,  9.55,   9.50

13 36.49, 15.20,  19.40, 17.12, 10.20,   9.69

14 37.39, 15.70,  19.96, 17.46, 10.80,   9.89

15 38.29, 16.30,  20.48, 17.74, 11.25,   10.1

16 39.19, 16.95,  21.04, 18.04, 11.75,  10.23

17 40.09, 17.45,  21.64, 18.36, 12.25,  10.46

18 40.99, 18.10,  22.28, 18.70, 12.75,  10.69

19 41.89, 18.60,  22.96, 19.06, 13.25,  10.83

20 42.79, 19.50,  23.60, 19.26, 13.75,  11.07

Now, I'm not even sure that's a good way to do it, but considering that Astoria hasn't even surpassed some non-compensated averages (namely speed) makes it harder to believe that growths are decreasing by only 10% every successful level up.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Chainey

[VincentASM]

What happens if you reduce 20% for a stat up instead? Is it any better?

[Rodykitty]

So basically reducing the dynamic growths by the amount of total growths instead? Or do you mean straight up -20%?

That may be more reasonable, though I would have to do another test.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Chainey

[VincentASM]

I think that would be -20% of the total growths, i.e -10% for a total growth of 50%.

[Rodykitty]

Just edited the speed. Went from twenty something down to 19.

[shadowjam]

Roshe should not be almost always capping speed with compensation growths. There are definitely bugs and it really shows when you input low growths like that....I have decided to do my own test to see how compensation growths will affect a character. I arena abused Wendell as a Dragon Knight to --/20, and recorded compensation growths as I got stats upon leveling up. Eventually my --/20 stats looked like this:HP 29Str 11Mag 1Ski 11Spd 23 (Capped)Luck 7Def 15Res 6These are obviously blessed stats if you know what his stats as a Dragon Knight looks "normally".Here are the growth compensations, recorded after every level up:

Lv - HP,	ST,	SK,	SP,	LK,  DF,	RSL1 - +0,	+0,	+0,   +0,	+0,  +0,	+0L2 - +0,	+.1,  +.2,   +0,   +.4,  +0,	+.15L3 - +.5,   +.2,   +0, +.25,	+0,  +.15,  +.3L4 - +1.0,  +.3,   +0,  +.5,   +.4,  +.30,  +.15L5 - +1.5,  +.4,   +0, +.75,   +.8,  +.45,  +0L6 - +2,	+.5,  +.2,  +.5,  +1.2,  +.60,  +.15L7 - +2.5,  +.4,  +.4, +.25,  +1.6,  +.45,  +.3L8 - +3,	+.5,  +.6,  +.5,	+2,  +.60,  +.45L9 - +2.5,  +.4,  +.8, +.75,  +1.6,  +.75,  +.6010 - +3,	+.5,  +.6,  +.5,  +1.2,  +.90,  +.7511 - +2.5,  +.6,  +.8, +.25,  +1.6, +1.05,  +.9012 - +2,	+.7,   +1,  +.5,	+2, +1.20, +1.0513 - +1.5,  +.8, +1.2, +.75,  +2.4, +1.35, +1.2014 - +2,	+.9,   +1,  +.5,	+2,  +1.5, +1.3515 - +1.5,   +1, +1.2, +.75,  +2.4, +1.65, +1.5016 - +1,   +1.1, +1.4,  +.5,	+2, +1.80, +1.6517 -  +.5,   +1, +1.6, +.75,  +2.4, +1.65, +1.8018 - +1,   +1.1, +1.4,  +.5,  +2.8, +1.80, +1.6519 - +1.5, +1.2, +1.6, +.75,  +3.2, +1.95, +1.80

Note that these are differences in growth rates only, so they apply to the next level up (it is why I never recorded level 20).Then I decided to try applying these growth differences to averages straight up, to see what the average stats look like... Sure enough...

L1 20,	8,	 5,	15,	 1,	 12,	 3L2 20.5,  8.1,   5.2,  15.25,  1.4,   12.15,  3.15L3 21,	8.21,  5.42, 15.5,   1.84,  12.3,   3.315L4 21.55, 8.33,  5.62, 15.775, 2.24,  12.465, 3.645L5 22.15, 8.46,  5.82, 16.105, 2.68,  12.645, 3.960L6 22.80, 8.60,  6.02, 16.43,  3.16,  12.84,  4.260L7 23.50, 8.75,  6.24, 16.73,  3.68,  13.05,  4.44L8 24.25, 8.89,  6.48, 17.005, 4.24,  13.245, 4.62L9 24.78, 9.04,  6.74, 17.305, 4.66,  13.455, 4.81510 25.53, 9.18,  7.02, 17.63,  5.22,  13.68,  5.02511 26.33, 9.33,  7.28, 17.93,  5.74,  13.83,  5.2512 27.08, 9.49,  7.56, 18.205, 6.30,  14.085, 5.4913 27.78, 9.66,  7.86, 18.505, 6.90,  14.355, 5.74514 28.43, 9.84,  8.18, 18.83,  7.54,  14.640, 6.01515 29.13, 10.03, 8.48, 19.13,  8.14,  14.94,  6.3016 29.78, 10.23, 8.80, 19.455, 8.78,  15.255, 6.6017 30.38, 10.44, 9.14, 19.755, 9.38,  15.585, 6.91518 30.94, 10.64, 9.50, 20.08,  10.02, 15.90,  7.24519 31.54, 10.85, 9.84, 20.38,  10.70, 16.23,  7.5620 32.19, 11.07, 10.1, 20.605, 11.42, 16.575, 7.97

My Wendel has 3 less HP, same Str, 1 more Ski, 3 More Spd, 4 less luck, and 1 less Def & Res than these "averages".So assuming dynamic growths do work in the way presented, this means that they are accurate for the Wendell I have gotten, and then the RNG screwed some stats.

Either my Astoria got hugely RNG screwed, or the dynamic growths aren't working like advertised.I got an Astoria with these stats, arena abused on NM:HP 43Str 15Ski 22Spd 17Luck 15Def 10Here are the compensation growths I recorded (I made the decimal places correct this time).

Astoria's growth rates, calculated real time with real level ups as HeroLv - HP,	ST,	SK,   SP,	LK,	DFL1 - +0,	+0,	+0,   +0,	+0,	+0L2 - +0,	+0,	+0, +.02,  +.05,  +.01L3 - +0,  +.05,	+0, +.04,   +.1,  +.02L4 - +0,   +.1,	+0, +.06,  +.15,  +.03L5 - +0,  +.15,	+0, +.08,   +.1,  +.04L6 - +0,   +.05,  +.04,  +.1,  +.15,  +.05L7 +.09,  +.10,   +.0, +.06,   +.1,  +.06L8   +0,   +.15,  +.04,  +.08,  +.15,  +.07L9 - +0,  +.05,  +.08, +.04,   +.1,  +.0610 +.09,   +.0,  +.12,  +.06,  +.05,  +.0711 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.08,   +.1,  +.0812 - +0,   +.1,	+2, +.1,  +.15,  +.0913 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.12,   +.1,   +.114 - +0,   +0,  +.12, +.08,  +.05,  +.1115 - +0,  +.05,  +.16, +.1,	+0,  +.1216 - +0,   +0,   +.2, +.12,	+0,  +.1317 - +0,  +.05,  +.24,  +.14,	+0,  +.1218 - +0,   +.1,  +.28, +.16,	+0,  +.1319 - +0,  +.15,  +.24, +.18,	+0,  +.14

Here are averages done based on these extra growths.

Astoria's average stats with these appliedL1	26,	 8,	 14,	14,	 3,   8L2  26.9,   8.5,   14.4,  14.2,   3.5,   8.1L3  27.8,	 9,   14.8, 14.42,  4.05,   8.11L4  28.7,  9.55,   15.2, 14.66,  4.65,   8.24L5  29.6, 10.15,   15.6, 14.92,  5.30,   8.37L6  30.5, 10.80,	 16, 15.20,  5.90,   8.51L7	31, 11.40,  16.44, 15.50,  6.55,   8.66L8 31.99, 12.05,  16.84, 15.76,  7.15,   8.82L9 32.89, 12.75,  17.24, 16.04,  7.80,   8.9910 33.79, 13.25,  17.72, 16.28,  8.40,   9.1511 34.69, 13.85,  18.24, 16.54,  8.95,   9.3212 35.59, 14.50,  18.80, 16.82,  9.55,   9.5013 36.49, 15.20,  19.40, 17.12, 10.20,   9.6914 37.39, 15.70,  19.96, 17.46, 10.80,   9.8915 38.29, 16.30,  20.48, 17.74, 11.25,   10.116 39.19, 16.95,  21.04, 18.04, 11.75,  10.2317 40.09, 17.45,  21.64, 18.36, 12.25,  10.4618 40.99, 18.10,  22.28, 18.70, 12.75,  10.6919 41.89, 18.60,  22.96, 19.06, 13.25,  10.8320 42.79, 19.50,  23.60, 19.26, 13.75,  11.07

Now, I'm not even sure that's a good way to do it, but considering that Astoria hasn't even surpassed some non-compensated averages (namely speed) makes it harder to believe that growths are decreasing by only 10% every successful level up.

After thorough review of your posts, I found some mathematical mistakes on your post. If dynamic growths are true, along with its 10% principle, and if Astram/Astoria has a 50% initial growth rate in strength as a hero, then he shouldn't experience an added 15% to his initial growth rate in strength as a hero at level 5(a value that doesn't affect his level 5 strength stat, as the stats progress by the growth rates from the previous level, in this case, level 4, to arrive at that unit's stats at its new level, or in this case, level 5) dropping to 5% more than Astram/Astoria's initial growth rate in strength as a hero by level 6(again, doesn't affect its level 6 strength stat due to the fact that the game adds or subtracts the growth rates after it calculates the stats at the unit's new level) because if the 10% principle applies, it has to decrease by 5% every time Astram's/Astoria's strength increases by level-up, meaning after your Astram/Astoria arrives at level 6, according to the data you gave, your Astram/Astoria's growth rate in str at level 6 has to be 10% more than Astram/Astoria's initial growth rate in strength as a hero, not 5% more than Astram/Astoria's initial growth rate in strength as a hero...

If I'm wrong, please prove it... I look forward to your response.

Edited July 1, 2010 by shadowjam

[Charpig]

Could dynamic growths apply to other Fire Emblems, we just haven't noticed them yet? Also, are we expecting dynamic growths to return in New Mystery of the Emblem?