Suckiest character in FE10

[Naglfar]

giving 1 bexp to Volug requires more than feeding 90bexp to Fiona.

He doesn't suck (@ Volug) but he'll start to be less useful after part 1 or endgame part 1.

Judging by what's been said, he'll probably start to fall behind (at least offensively) during 1-8 or so, then his usefulness will spike up come part three when you can take Wildheart off. Incidentally, he'll start levelling nicely by the time you reach 3-6, too, so it all works out.

[Anouleth]

My opinion is that Oliver is the worst character. There is literally, no reason EVER to use him over Bastian, or even in conjunction with Bastian. Royals+Skrimir+Giffca+Stefan+Volke+Bastian all come for free in Part 4, which is 9 units, all better than Oliver, so unless you trained NOBODY in Part 1, 2, and 3 (because pretty much everyone in the game is pretty than Oliver once trained), Oliver won't get an Endgame place.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Anouleth

[whase]

my worst would be Vika.

Don't get me wrong, I like her. but her availability just makes her worst for me.

and I like meg, I hate slow units and she's actually a very fast armorknight, evading attacks a lot. (untill she reaches her caps :( )

[Anouleth]

my worst would be Vika.

Don't get me wrong, I like her. but her availability just makes her worst for me.

and I like meg, I hate slow units and she's actually a very fast armorknight, evading attacks a lot. (untill she reaches her caps :( )

It's a shame IS gave a unit with 215% avoid growth Heaven affinity and a 22 Speed cap in second tier.

[Redthir Jerdisheim]

Oliver. As an enemy, he is easily worth a level up. He is the easiest enemy in the entire chapter as well. He has crappy bases, and with his base level he isn't really going to get good in any way. His growth rates are below 50 in every stat except Strength, which he really doesn't need as a Saint.

Needless to say, Oliver is a complete waste.

[Catnip]

Interesting. I only expected to see Fiona, Meg, Lyre, and Astrid, but then I see Oliver. Plus, the points against Oliver are good ones. I'm starting to think about it...but I stopped.

Fiona.

She's almost never avalible in Part 1, so come Part 3, unless you blow you EXP on her instead of on the many other DB units that could use it, she's absolutely useless.

[Anouleth]

Interesting. I only expected to see Fiona, Meg, Lyre, and Astrid, but then I see Oliver. Plus, the points against Oliver are good ones. I'm starting to think about it...but I stopped.

Fiona.

She's almost never avalible in Part 1, so come Part 3, unless you blow you EXP on her instead of on the many other DB units that could use it, she's absolutely useless.

Fiona can be Boss Abused, and is potentially a half-decent character for Endgame. Being good sometimes, or with lots of favouritism >>> never ever being good.

[Catnip]

Interesting. I only expected to see Fiona, Meg, Lyre, and Astrid, but then I see Oliver. Plus, the points against Oliver are good ones. I'm starting to think about it...but I stopped.

Fiona.

She's almost never avalible in Part 1, so come Part 3, unless you blow you EXP on her instead of on the many other DB units that could use it, she's absolutely useless.

Fiona can be Boss Abused, and is potentially a half-decent character for Endgame. Being good sometimes, or with lots of favouritism >>> never ever being good.

Anyone can be favorited, but Fiona starts at the lowest level of all those that can be (other than Meg, but at least she sees some action during Part 1). With BEXP, Lyre will be able to kill and gain her own CEXP. Same goes for everyone else, but Fiona is the worst of all of those that need all that BEXP. In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Catnip

[shroudening]

Aran. I can never promote him by Part I endgame.

[Florete]

With BEXP, Lyre will be able to kill and gain her own CEXP.

No, not really. She'll be getting HP, Speed, and Luck. What she needs is Str, and a lot of it. Lyre is heading nowhere fast.

Same goes for everyone else, but Fiona is the worst of all of those that need all that BEXP.

Fiona got lucky because she doesn't need BEXP to be useful. She has part 3 where she can be deployed for free and do something slightly useful. Lyre's deployment is never free.

In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Enlighten me. Have you checked Fiona's tier 3 caps to cross reference this claim?

[NinjaMonkey]

Although I've already stated that Nasir was my suckiest unit, after doing a few more playthroughs I realise that I should have put down Sothe instead. Granted he starts off OK, but towards the end of part 1, his usefullness starts declining somewhat. By the end of part 3, he's complete garbage and there's practically no point in training him up as high as possible before he premotes at the end of 4-P. As for endgame, he is comparable to Ena (who I think also sucks) in terms of usefulness - the only reason I bother putting him in is to give Micaiah her meagre support bonuses.

So yeah, I'm going to revise my choice and say Sothe.

[Catnip]

With BEXP, Lyre will be able to kill and gain her own CEXP.

No, not really. She'll be getting HP, Speed, and Luck. What she needs is Str, and a lot of it. Lyre is heading nowhere fast.

Same goes for everyone else, but Fiona is the worst of all of those that need all that BEXP.

Fiona got lucky because she doesn't need BEXP to be useful. She has part 3 where she can be deployed for free and do something slightly useful. Lyre's deployment is never free.

In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Enlighten me. Have you checked Fiona's tier 3 caps to cross reference this claim?

A) And a Level 7 Lance Knight is going quickly? It may be easy to take her up 1 level, but by the time she's a respectable level (or at the very least mediocre), you're out of luck. If you can build up Lyre's speed she can double some mages (yes, I know that's pathetic...), but soon be attacking much more. Fiona's enemies are mostly laguz. Those aren't easy to kill, and there are no execptions.

B) Even if she can be deployed for free, she's not doing anything but dying. Tiger laguz take her down in one shot, unless you used some major favoritism. That includes boss abuse. There are plenty of character that could easily becoem better units than her without you wasting time slamming and slamming the same boss.

C) Good, but there are better. Plus it's impossible for her to hit those caps, unless you're a devoted Fiona user. I'll admit the same applies to Lyre, but if you can bring her up to 35-40, which is only 16 levels as opposed to Fiona's 30+, she has better stats, plus a skill that multiplies damage by 5.

Look, they both suck. But Lyre sucks just enough less that Fiona is my worst.

[Fayt Zelpher]

In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Enlighten me. Have you checked Fiona's tier 3 caps to cross reference this claim?

I don't know. It's not my argument, but I don't see why they're all that bad. It's not like she's getting anywhere even remotely close to those caps, but we aren't concerned with that for the moment.

Compared to Jill, who appears 1 chapter earlier, we find:

HP: Equal

Str: Jill by 2

Mag: Fiona by 10. It's irrelevant, but Fiona does have innate imbue, even though she's losing it immediately. That's beside the point. Carrying on...

Skl: Jill by 4

Spd: Jill by 1

Luck: Equal

Def: Jill by 6

Res: Fiona by 5

Jill's winning everything except magic (which is irrelevant) and Resistance (which isn't). Arguably, Wishblade > Urvan for 2 range, but Urvan is around for 4-E-1 and 2, when you're actually fighting a lot of enemies.

But Jill has what are perhaps the best caps in the game, excepting Ike.

Lets look at another class: Fiona v. Meg (a very mediocre unit in her own right) We find that:

HP: Meg by 5

Str: Meg by 3

Mag: Equal

Skl: Fiona by 1

Spd: Fiona by 2

Luck: Fiona by 5

Def: Meg by 7

Res: Meg by 5

Meg's got huge durability advantages over Fiona, at the cost of a little skill, speed, and Luck. It seems that Meg's caps > Fiona's. She's also got more Str, but a weaker choice of SS weapons. Fiona is hitting the crucial 34 Spd to Double auras with Nasir, double Dheginsea, double all spirits, and Meg's getting doubled by Sephiran as well.

Let's try one more class: Male Dragonlords (Haar). If Haar's so great, he should beat Fiona easily. Does he?

HP: Haar by 5

Str: Haar by 5

Mag: Fiona by 10

Skl: Haar by 4

Spd: Fiona by 2

Luck: Fiona by 5

Def: Haar by 10(!)

Res: Fiona by 7

Well, Haar's winning, but again, it's not as bad as might be thought based on tier ratings. Again, 34 speed is crucial, and Haar is again getting doubled by Sephiran. And better resistance. But sages stink and there aren't many of them.

In conclusion: Fiona's a bad character, but it's not her caps that are hurting her. She has bad availability, she shows up 4+ levels below a typical NM party, loses movement in 1-7, can't go to 1-8, and can't climb ledges in 1-E. By 3-6, she's now got swamps to deal with. Honestly, she's got three purposes: Imbue, Savior, and blocking a ledge for the 3-13 archer in... 3-13 (surprise!). Her caps are decent. She and Astrid possibly have the best of all the paladins due to Spd issues with the others. Too bad they never get to take advantage to use them...

I'm agreeing with RFoF, and it's not just because she's something of a living god on this forum.

[Krad]

B) Even if she can be deployed for free, she's not doing anything but dying. Tiger laguz take her down in one shot, unless you used some major favoritism. That includes boss abuse. There are plenty of character that could easily becoem better units than her without you wasting time slamming and slamming the same boss.

Suddenly blocking ledges in 3-13 is nothing. And she can rescue some dumb partner unit that is in the wrong place. It's not the best, but she can do it.

C) Good, but there are better. Plus it's impossible for her to hit those caps, unless you're a devoted Fiona user. I'll admit the same applies to Lyre, but if you can bring her up to 35-40, which is only 16 levels as opposed to Fiona's 30+, she has better stats, plus a skill that multiplies damage by 5.

They technically need the same amount of levels to work, since laguz transformed have a very low exp gain, and good luck making Lyre fight without transforming.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Krad

[Catnip]

I suppose I never really used Fiona.

I probably should have kept my mouth shut, but, like Skrimir, I'm a talkative idiot.

My vote changes to Lyre.

[Narga_Rocks]

With BEXP, Lyre will be able to kill and gain her own CEXP.

No, not really. She'll be getting HP, Speed, and Luck. What she needs is Str, and a lot of it. Lyre is heading nowhere fast.

Same goes for everyone else, but Fiona is the worst of all of those that need all that BEXP.

Fiona got lucky because she doesn't need BEXP to be useful. She has part 3 where she can be deployed for free and do something slightly useful. Lyre's deployment is never free.

In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Enlighten me. Have you checked Fiona's tier 3 caps to cross reference this claim?

A) And a Level 7 Lance Knight is going quickly? It may be easy to take her up 1 level, but by the time she's a respectable level (or at the very least mediocre), you're out of luck. If you can build up Lyre's speed she can double some mages (yes, I know that's pathetic...), but soon be attacking much more. Fiona's enemies are mostly laguz. Those aren't easy to kill, and there are no execptions.

The point is that Lyre is constantly inferior to all other options, so using her isn't exactly helping her case. See the next point.

B) Even if she can be deployed for free, she's not doing anything but dying. Tiger laguz take her down in one shot, unless you used some major favoritism. That includes boss abuse. There are plenty of character that could easily becoem better units than her without you wasting time slamming and slamming the same boss.

The whole point of free deployment is that you don't use her in 1-7 and 1-E when she's not free, so obviously her stats are going to be quite bad. However, she still has a job in part 3. Torches in 3-6 so that the characters you did train don't have to use them and blocking ledges in 3-13. This is something that she can do and you need all the blockers in 3-13 you can get so it's something she gets full credit for. Lyre forces out superior units so anything she does must be looked at against the opportunity cost of using Lyre. Fiona can earn a positive economic profit. Lyre can't. Fiona > Lyre.

C) Good, but there are better. Plus it's impossible for her to hit those caps, unless you're a devoted Fiona user. I'll admit the same applies to Lyre, but if you can bring her up to 35-40, which is only 16 levels as opposed to Fiona's 30+, she has better stats, plus a skill that multiplies damage by 5.

It multiplies str by 5, making it actually useful. If Rend multiplied damage by 5 it would be quite useless for her on red dragons. Anyway, that isn't important since the original complaint there was that Silver Knights fail automatically. Fiona's caps disprove that statement. It's Fiona's join time + availability + bases that screw her over, not her class.

Look, they both suck. But Lyre sucks just enough less that Fiona is my worst.

You can think whichever character you want is worst. That's fine. But from an efficiency standpoint, Fiona is better since she happens to contribute more towards an efficient completion of the game than Lyre does.

[Florete]

Although I've already stated that Nasir was my suckiest unit, after doing a few more playthroughs I realise that I should have put down Sothe instead. Granted he starts off OK, but towards the end of part 1, his usefullness starts declining somewhat. By the end of part 3, he's complete garbage and there's practically no point in training him up as high as possible before he premotes at the end of 4-P. As for endgame, he is comparable to Ena (who I think also sucks) in terms of usefulness - the only reason I bother putting him in is to give Micaiah her meagre support bonuses.

So yeah, I'm going to revise my choice and say Sothe.

I don't care if you hate Sothe. Calling him the worst character in the game is pure retardation. There are some things that simply can't be true.

Nasir is pretty far from the worst as well.

I was going to respond to you but it seems Krad and Narga got to you first. Oh well.

I'm agreeing with RFoF, and it's not just because she's something of a living god on this forum.

Oh...Perhaps a new sig quote is in order.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Colonel M]

Fiona. At least w/stat boosters I can make Lyre... okay.

[Naglfar]

With BEXP, Lyre will be able to kill and gain her own CEXP.

No, not really. She'll be getting HP, Speed, and Luck. What she needs is Str, and a lot of it. Lyre is heading nowhere fast.

Same goes for everyone else, but Fiona is the worst of all of those that need all that BEXP.

Fiona got lucky because she doesn't need BEXP to be useful. She has part 3 where she can be deployed for free and do something slightly useful. Lyre's deployment is never free.

In addition, she's only going to become a Silver Knight, and we all now what happened to them in RD.

Enlighten me. Have you checked Fiona's tier 3 caps to cross reference this claim?

A) And a Level 7 Lance Knight is going quickly? It may be easy to take her up 1 level, but by the time she's a respectable level (or at the very least mediocre), you're out of luck. If you can build up Lyre's speed she can double some mages (yes, I know that's pathetic...), but soon be attacking much more. Fiona's enemies are mostly laguz. Those aren't easy to kill, and there are no execptions.

B) Even if she can be deployed for free, she's not doing anything but dying. Tiger laguz take her down in one shot, unless you used some major favoritism. That includes boss abuse. There are plenty of character that could easily becoem better units than her without you wasting time slamming and slamming the same boss.

C) Good, but there are better. Plus it's impossible for her to hit those caps, unless you're a devoted Fiona user. I'll admit the same applies to Lyre, but if you can bring her up to 35-40, which is only 16 levels as opposed to Fiona's 30+, she has better stats, plus a skill that multiplies damage by 5.

Look, they both suck. But Lyre sucks just enough less that Fiona is my worst.

A) Fiona can't kill anything. Neither can Lyre.

B) Fiona is doing nothing but dying. So is Lyre.

C) This is a better point, but don't forget that Lyre's gauge holds her back until Endgame, laguz level slower than beorc, and Sol kills just as well as Rend and even heals.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I'm agreeing with RFoF, and it's not just because she's something of a living god on this forum.

Oh...Perhaps a new sig quote is in order.

Do what you will...

[Catnip]

I already gave up. I ran headfirst into this debate, being the idiot I am. I should have checked more before posting. I'm sorry.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Catnip

[Narga_Rocks]

C) This is a better point, but don't forget that Lyre's gauge holds her back until Endgame, laguz level slower than beorc, and Sol kills just as well as Rend and even heals.

Actually, even though Fiona > Lyre, Rend >> Sol in this case. 40% activation vs. (skill/2)%, so even at max Fiona has just 17%. Also, since Rend multiplies str by 5 it allows Lyre to kill even dragons rather easily, but Fiona might not even 4HKO dragons so she'd need to somehow activate Sol twice (or crit the thing). Even if she is 4HKOing dragons, she's still taking a counter even if she manages to activate on the first attack (Lyre OHKOs with Rend). At least if she activates Sol on the second hit then she'll heal back the damage from the first.

[Fayt Zelpher]

C) This is a better point, but don't forget that Lyre's gauge holds her back until Endgame, laguz level slower than beorc, and Sol kills just as well as Rend and even heals.

Actually, even though Fiona > Lyre, Rend >> Sol in this case. 40% activation vs. (skill/2)%, so even at max Fiona has just 17%. Also, since Rend multiplies str by 5 it allows Lyre to kill even dragons rather easily, but Fiona might not even 4HKO dragons so she'd need to somehow activate Sol twice (or crit the thing). Even if she is 4HKOing dragons, she's still taking a counter even if she manages to activate on the first attack (Lyre OHKOs with Rend). At least if she activates Sol on the second hit then she'll heal back the damage from the first.

While I fully agree with this post and was actually going to bring it up myself, I think we should note 2 things. First, Fiona + Wishblade (we'll assume that's what she has) can actually strike back on enemy phase while Lyre just has to suck up the hits. And then there's the whole issue of Cat gauge. Strike that, I'll grant that on account of gems. But she's still going to soak up a lot of hits since most of your other characters are going to have 1-2 range at this point.

[Sho Minamimoto]

Lyre the failyre has my vote. Crap bases at joining level and lolSTR & DEF growths.

Where's your beauty?! ~TWEWY reference.

[RNG Princess]

IMO Fiona > Lyre.

the transformation brings Lyre down.

Fio has more ulitity and even though she'll have trouble hitting she can use javelins.