IceBrand Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 But Loki was a god of fire I thought it was deception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) omg! this discussion! *puts on the Heathen Hat* *gives greeting mead* iirc, Loki in P4G learns THE most powerful (single target?) Ice Spell. *swims in it*Oh i see. It's cool that he's in this game is what I was thinking. Because Loki has ice powers or something like that? Maybe my memory is failing me. In mythology, Loki is said to be of Jotunheim. When Ragnarok begins, he breaks free of his bindings and takes command of the ship Naglfar. He then leads an army of frost giants to storm Asgard. Wherein he gets blocked by Heimdall and they do battle. The frost giants however, do manage to get in. And Naglfar, the ship of the nails of dead men, is said to have carried shades and dead wights from Hel, Loki's daughter's realm. Naglfar is docked near Nastrond. Btw: in the mythology, Loki isnt brother to Thor exactly. They are companions often in stories, but it is said Loki was made blood brothers with Odin. Because he's a jötunn. Yeah thats part of it but Jotunheim isnt implicitly stated to be completely arctic. (thats Nifelheim.) But Loki was a god of fire Thats not entirely true. Thats likely a mistranslation of the god Logi. Logi shows up in the Gylfaginning as one of the challenges that Thor and Loki face when dealing with Útgarða-Loki. (who has nothing to do with Loki really outside of similar names.) No, I know that much. I mean that I don't know his powers or etc, except through how the movies portrayed him. lel. Loki in mythology has the power to change shape which he uses often. He also has a silver tongue and is known to bullshit his way through anything really. Trickery and deception and the duality between order and chaos. (hes of the chaos side obviously) Hes also known as having a great deal of determination. Once he sets his mind to something, he'll see it through. (If it means righting a wrong, or...vengeance....) The Ice thing likely came because of the myth where he leads the frost giants during Ragnarok. (a lot of this stuff is kinda fragmented. Im kinda in the middle of studying it all) Loki often changed into a female shape. (a mare once, in which led to the conception of Odin's horse, Sleipnir) He uses this shape to trick Thrym into believing the excuses he made for Thor during the Þrymskviða which happens to be Lumi's favorite story. Loki uses the female shape to (supposedly) get information out of Frigg about Baldr's weakness, which is why he is punished for Baldr's death ultimately. (that and the Lokasenna lol) :D Edited May 27, 2014 by Loki Laufeyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yeah thats part of it but Jotunheim isnt implicitly stated to be completely arctic. (thats Nifelheim.) I know, but that is most likely the reason they decided to have him do ice things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I see, I see. I don't know much about Norse mythology. Some Greek/Roman mythology, but not Norse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 omg! this discussion! *puts on the Heathen Hat* *swims in it* Oh i see. In mythology, Loki is said to be of Jotunheim. When Ragnarok begins, he breaks free of his bindings and takes command of the ship Naglfar. He then leads an army of frost giants to storm Asgard. Wherein he gets blocked by Heimdall and they do battle. The frost giants however, do manage to get in. And Naglfar, the ship of the nails of dead men, is said to have carried shades and dead wights from Hel, Loki's daughter's realm. Naglfar is docked near Nastrond. Btw: in the mythology, Loki isnt brother to Thor exactly. They are companions often in stories, but it is said Loki was made blood brothers with Odin. Yeah thats part of it but Jotunheim isnt implicitly stated to be completely arctic. (thats Nifelheim.) Thats not entirely true. Thats likely a mistranslation of the god Logi. Logi shows up in the Gylfaginning as one of the challenges that Thor and Loki face when dealing with Útgarða-Loki. (who has nothing to do with Loki really outside of similar names.) lel. Loki in mythology has the power to change shape which he uses often. He also has a silver tongue and is known to bullshit his way through anything really. Trickery and deception and the duality between order and chaos. (hes of the chaos side obviously) Hes also known as having a great deal of determination. Once he sets his mind to something, he'll see it through. (If it means righting a wrong, or...vengeance....) The Ice thing likely came because of the myth where he leads the frost giants during Ragnarok. (a lot of this stuff is kinda fragmented. Im kinda in the middle of studying it all) Loki often changed into a female shape. (a mare once, in which led to the conception of Odin's horse, Sleipnir) He uses this shape to trick Thrym into believing the excuses he made for Thor during the Þrymskviða which happens to be Lumi's favorite story. Loki uses the female shape to (supposedly) get information out of Frigg about Baldr's weakness, which is why he is punished for Baldr's death ultimately. (that and the Lokasenna lol) :D Thus say the norse expert. If I recall correctly, though, that strongest ice spell is called Nilfheim or something similar? From P4G I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I know, but that is most likely the reason they decided to have him do ice things. Yeah. Not gonna lie, i kinda think thats cool and my mythology headcanon likes having him be kinda frosty. Mostly due to Hel being his daughter and she kicks it right in the center of Nifelheim with her hall of dead guys. Loki is also associated with dastardly deeds and evil. Some argue theres a Christian bent to this and its likely. But no one will deny that Loki got with a giant named Angrboda (Bringer of Grief) and spawned three rather horrific children. One being Hel. The others, Jormungand the Midgard Serpent, and finally, the most dastardly of all: The Fenris wolf. Fenris ends up being the one who eats Odin during Ragnarok. Odin's son, Víðarr is said to be the one who avenges his father and kills Fenris. Jormungand isnt exactly evil, hes just a huge snake that chills in Midgard and is so big, he circles the world and can bite his own tail. Thor likes to do battle with him. (Ultimately, when the seas begin roiling, Thor and Jormungand do battle and they both get iced as a result. Jormungand dies first.) Hel isnt exactly evil either, shes just kinda...creepy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 You can just imagine the family reunions, hahaha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Yeah. Not gonna lie, i kinda think thats cool and my mythology headcanon likes having him be kinda frosty. Mostly due to Hel being his daughter and she kicks it right in the center of Nifelheim with her hall of dead guys. Loki is also associated with dastardly deeds and evil. Some argue theres a Christian bent to this and its likely. But no one will deny that Loki got with a giant named Angrboda (Bringer of Grief) and spawned three rather horrific children. One being Hel. The others, Jormungand the Midgard Serpent, and finally, the most dastardly of all: The Fenris wolf. Fenris ends up being the one who eats Odin during Ragnarok. Odin's son, Víðarr is said to be the one who avenges his father and kills Fenris. Jormungand isnt exactly evil, hes just a huge snake that chills in Midgard and is so big, he circles the world and can bite his own tail. Thor likes to do battle with him. (Ultimately, when the seas begin roiling, Thor and Jormungand do battle and they both get iced as a result. Jormungand dies first.) Hel isnt exactly evil either, shes just kinda...creepy. There was this one manga I read where Hel was depicted as both a doting mother, and a grade A badass queen. Also, didn't Fenrir bite off Tyr's hand? Or was that something else? Edited May 27, 2014 by Aqua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Loki is a pretty complex figure. He's often thought of as evil, but he really doesn't do anything truly evil until he fools Hodr into killing Baldur. Even then, there's an argument to be made that what he did was no worse than what the other gods had done to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 You can just imagine the family reunions, hahaha... huehuehue, no lie right? There was this one manga I read where Hel was depicted as both a doting mother, and a grade A badass queen. Also, didn't Fenrir bite off Tyr's hand? Or was that something else? heh, Hel is kind of fucking badass. Shes basically the Norse version of Hades only cooler (pun) and pretty benevolent most of the time. Torment isnt exactly a part of her deal. Her hall is said to be a bit dimly lit, but relatively peaceful. She even cuts a deal with Hermod (one of Odin's sons) in order to get Baldr back to the realm of the living. Hel proposed that if everyone and everything in the Nine Worlds wept for Baldr, she'd release him. And this is something that Loki got blamed for.... Hermod told all the other gods about this and yeah, everyone and everything wept for Baldr. Except one creature. Some giantess in a cave named Þökk (or Thökk) basically told everyone that her heart bleeds panther piss for Baldr and thus, he was not brought back to life. Loki got blamed for being the giantess. About Fenris, yeah he chomped off Tyr's hand. Tyr was the only one who was bold enough to test Fenris' bindings and feed him. Fenris was all "come on, you guys put me in this bindings, but in good faith, someone put their hand in my mouth and test them." So Tyr did. Gleipnir (the binding) grew to an unbreakable band each time Fenris struggled and thus bit off Tyr's hand. Loki is a pretty complex figure. He's often thought of as evil, but he really doesn't do anything truly evil until he fools Hodr into killing Baldur. Even then, there's an argument to be made that what he did was no worse than what the other gods had done to him. Indeed. It seemed his act against Baldr was more out of spite than evil. Baldr got everyone's love and all that good stuff. I also think he wanted to just see what would happen if Baldr died. Even when Loki faffed around, he always corrected his mistakes. (like stealing Sif's hair and then later going to Svartalfheim and coming back with even better shit, including a golden headdress for Sif.) Hes my favorite of the lot for a reason, hes so...interesting. The argument you mention is often aimed at the treatment of Loki's children. Jormungand being tossed into the sea for being (seemingly) too weak. Hel tossed in Nifelheim and pretty much quarantined there. (she really cant leave) And Fenris being bound by the Gleipnir. Its argued that Loki killed Baldr due to this reason as a form of vengeance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 The nerve of some Freohrs!! Buh bye everyone \o -.- sometimes that obvious fact has to be stated to be reaffirmed because sometimes I get really weirded out by what's going on here As if the fttf is ever insane to us that is to those who don't visit this section. Oh hai FE4 Thread. Heya. :D wb ----- Happy birthday, Makaze. ...And Freohr had to have had a reason to make an alt. Maybe she needed it for one of her relatives that has a shared computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 huehuehue, no lie right? heh, Hel is kind of fucking badass. Shes basically the Norse version of Hades only cooler (pun) and pretty benevolent most of the time. Torment isnt exactly a part of her deal. Her hall is said to be a bit dimly lit, but relatively peaceful. She even cuts a deal with Hermod (one of Odin's sons) in order to get Baldr back to the realm of the living. Hel proposed that if everyone and everything in the Nine Worlds wept for Baldr, she'd release him. And this is something that Loki got blamed for.... Hermod told all the other gods about this and yeah, everyone and everything wept for Baldr. Except one creature. Some giantess in a cave named Þökk (or Thökk) basically told everyone that her heart bleeds panther piss for Baldr and thus, he was not brought back to life. Loki got blamed for being the giantess. About Fenris, yeah he chomped off Tyr's hand. Tyr was the only one who was bold enough to test Fenris' bindings and feed him. Fenris was all "come on, you guys put me in this bindings, but in good faith, someone put their hand in my mouth and test them." So Tyr did. Gleipnir (the binding) grew to an unbreakable band each time Fenris struggled and thus bit off Tyr's hand. Indeed. It seemed his act against Baldr was more out of spite than evil. Baldr got everyone's love and all that good stuff. I also think he wanted to just see what would happen if Baldr died. Even when Loki faffed around, he always corrected his mistakes. (like stealing Sif's hair and then later going to Svartalfheim and coming back with even better shit, including a golden headdress for Sif.) Hes my favorite of the lot for a reason, hes so...interesting. The argument you mention is often aimed at the treatment of Loki's children. Jormungand being tossed into the sea for being (seemingly) too weak. Hel tossed in Nifelheim and pretty much quarantined there. (she really cant leave) And Fenris being bound by the Gleipnir. Its argued that Loki killed Baldr due to this reason as a form of vengeance. I see. ...Of course, probably like Hades, if she's ever featured in anything (is she featured in anything?), she's painted as a villain because "ooo, scary" when the role was more of "I'm just here to judge and keep the dead and so long as you don't ACTIVELY fuck with me, then I won't do anything back." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 And that's why I'm glad that they haven't, as far as I'm aware of anyway, try to portray Mictlantecuhtli and the Mictlán in the same vein.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I see. ...Of course, probably like Hades, if she's ever featured in anything (is she featured in anything?), she's painted as a villain because "ooo, scary" when the role was more of "I'm just here to judge and keep the dead and so long as you don't ACTIVELY fuck with me, then I won't do anything back." Ehhh sorta kinda but not really. The "Satan" role often goes to Loki. Hel is sometimes depicted as kind of vindictive and extremely spooky. The latter part has to do with how shes described. Shes described as one half of her being a beautiful woman, the other a rotting corpse, or looking "rather dead." Headcanon of mine has her depicted as half shadow. Plus shes said to have a pretty moribund disposition. (think creepy monotone and kind of ruthlessly blunt.) So when shes depicted as the queen of an underworld in popular media, (if ever) shes kinda not a good guy but not always outright evil. Valkyrie Profile mentions Hel (but shes never seen in the game(s)) and shes depicted as sorta gnarly. That series does weirdass shit with the mythology lol. You didnt go to Hel if you were a bad person. You went there if you died of old age, sickness, hunger, murder (if not in battle), etc. The bad people went to Nastrond which is located in Hel (yeah its also a place. Hel's hall etc) but is the Shore of Corpses. Nidhoggr lives there (pretty much in restraint) and sits to gnaw on the root of Yggdrasil that reaches Nifelheim. Nidhoggr is said to bedevil those who wind up there and eventually, devour their souls. Nastrond is closer to the Christian concept of Hell than Hel is, believe it or not. And that's why I'm glad that they haven't, as far as I'm aware of anyway, try to portray Mictlantecuhtli and the Mictlán in the same vein.. That mythology is so weird, its kinda hard to depict it in any other way than it is. :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ehhh sorta kinda but not really. The "Satan" role often goes to Loki. Hel is sometimes depicted as kind of vindictive and extremely spooky. The latter part has to do with how shes described. Shes described as one half of her being a beautiful woman, the other a rotting corpse, or looking "rather dead." Headcanon of mine has her depicted as half shadow. Plus shes said to have a pretty moribund disposition. (think creepy monotone and kind of ruthlessly blunt.) So when shes depicted as the queen of an underworld in popular media, (if ever) shes kinda not a good guy but not always outright evil. Valkyrie Profile mentions Hel (but shes never seen in the game(s)) and shes depicted as sorta gnarly. That series does weirdass shit with the mythology lol. You didnt go to Hel if you were a bad person. You went there if you died of old age, sickness, hunger, murder (if not in battle), etc. The bad people went to Nastrond which is located in Hel (yeah its also a place. Hel's hall etc) but is the Shore of Corpses. Nidhoggr lives there (pretty much in restraint) and sits to gnaw on the root of Yggdrasil that reaches Nifelheim. Nidhoggr is said to bedevil those who wind up there and eventually, devour their souls. Nastrond is closer to the Christian concept of Hell than Hel is, believe it or not. That mythology is so weird, its kinda hard to depict it in any other way than it is. :V Ah! I see then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) That mythology is so weird, its kinda hard to depict it in any other way than it is. :V Heh, I suppose. Though in a way it's probably better that way. Although, I do think they have tried with the other Mesoamerican underworld, Xibalba, but right now I don't remember if that's true... Edited May 27, 2014 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Heh, I suppose. Though in a way it's probably better that way. Although, I do think they have tried with the other Mesoamerican underworld, Xibalba, but right now I don't remember if that's true... Hoo yeah? Huh. I think it is better they leave that mythology alone. Its kinda hard to wrap one's head around it unless they were brought up with it in their culture and junk. As for Xibalba, yeah they have tried with that one but its not exactly widespread. (i really havent seen much about Mayan mythology to be honest.) Aztec mythology is really neat but bizarre and hard to adapt. I think thats why they leave it alone. Its also difficult to portray any god from that other than Quetzalcoatl as anything truly benevolent when the myths often state that those gods thirsted for blood. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxas Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Marion pls [spoiler=VC2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Hoo yeah? Huh. I think it is better they leave that mythology alone. Its kinda hard to wrap one's head around it unless they were brought up with it in their culture and junk. As for Xibalba, yeah they have tried with that one but its not exactly widespread. (i really havent seen much about Mayan mythology to be honest.) Aztec mythology is really neat but bizarre and hard to adapt. I think thats why they leave it alone. Its also difficult to portray any god from that other than Quetzalcoatl as anything truly benevolent when the myths often state that those gods thirsted for blood. :o Yeah, all thanks to the whole human sacrifice thing. Although to be fair, take that out and that pretty much removes the problem for the most part. Actually, I wouldn't say even Quetzalcóatl is exempt from this, considering he too had sacrifices on his name. Edited May 27, 2014 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Marion pls [spoiler=VC2] What the hell? >_> Roxas, what are you playing?! .____. Edited May 27, 2014 by Fruity Insanity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Marion pls [spoiler=VC2] lewd. Yeah, all thanks to the whole human sacrifice thing. Although to be fair, take that out and that pretty much removes the problem for the most part. Actually, I wouldn't say even Quetzalcóatl is exempt from this, considering he too had sacrifices on his name. Hyeah but most people wanna keep the human sacrifice bit because edgy. lel Quetzalcoatl was said to be mostly against the constant flow of human blood, but he still got worshiped in a similar fashion, yeah. Aztec gods are neato. (i like Huehuecoyotl. Hes kinda awesome.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 lewd. Hyeah but most people wanna keep the human sacrifice bit because edgy. lel Quetzalcoatl was said to be mostly against the constant flow of human blood, but he still got worshiped in a similar fashion, yeah. Aztec gods are neato. (i like Huehuecoyotl. Hes kinda awesome.) Yeah, to be fair, the way Aztec mythology was established, the human sacrifice thing was turned into a "It's what makes it work, no matter what anyone thinks on the matter". So it was a big deal, since one of the main reasons to have sacrifices was because of the whole "if we don't do this the sun will die and we're all doomed" thing and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxas Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 What the hell? >_> Roxas, what are you playing?! .____. Valkyria Chronicles deux because conception 2 just went full derp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Marion pls [spoiler=VC2] What the hell? >_> Roxas, what are you playing?! .____. http://d.hatena.ne.jp/szkex/20100206#1265445240 ゲーム][PSP][戦場のヴァルキュリア2] 難易度が・・・ 17:33 Game] [PSP] · · · 17:33 is [Valkyria Chronicles 2] difficulty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruity Insanity Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Valkyria Chronicles deux because conception 2 just went full derp Such lewdness. Why did you even buy that game? >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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