CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Wasn't De Coras a judge during the trial who left those documents? If so, yeah he would be the most accurate and probably the basis for a lot of the other work being done on it. True...If I recall correctly, this was also the time when the protestant religion was gaining ground, although France was traditionally Catholic, so religion probably played a part as well...maybe. (gack, I'll need to go and actually re-read the book, if this is actually going to turn into a debate lol. Edit: Hi Jan... As I've said before, he was the judge in the case of the Impostor Arnaud Du Thil. He wrote a book on several strange cases, including a very long one on the "Case of the Impostor", which is of course the case of Arnaud/Martin. Yes indeed, and rleigious wars were starting everywhere, a lot of versions of the story, including the musical, has Bertrande and Arnaud convert to Protestantism, which gives Pierre an extra reason to accuse Arnaud. Of course faith was not applied to (most) cases in that time, as the Law was still above everything. A very interesting fact, Jean De Coras was a Protestant and leader of many religious wars sometime after the case of Maritn Guerre. He was eventually hung for his faith by the church. It's not really a debate for me =) As we're mostly confirming each other's facts. @Gio: It's about a 16th century ID thief, he stole the name of "Martin Guerre" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Disgaea 2 is finally done. Next on the agenda: find folks to shark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Right, I've heard that they might have been Protestant, which I think that religion doesn't have as strict rules on marriage or something...I'm not protestant, so I really don't know, but something about the religion itself, might have helped their case, if Protestantism was the majority of the jury, but alias it wasn't. Yep, now that you're re-confirmed the judge, I do recall him being hung for his beliefs, which was indeed interesting... ^_^. Seems like the book/movie/play aren't too far off each other, with the except of some new characters for the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Right, I've heard that they might have been Protestant, which I think that religion doesn't have as strict rules on marriage or something...I'm not protestant, so I really don't know, but something about the religion itself, might have helped their case, if Protestantism was the majority of the jury, but alias it wasn't. Yep, now that you're re-confirmed the judge, I do recall him being hung for his beliefs, which was indeed interesting... ^_^. Seems like the book/movie/play aren't too far off each other, with the except of some new characters for the play. If they were Protestants, that sheds a whole new light on the story. As chances are then that Pierre only cared of ridding himself of a Protestant, whether he was Martin or not. Protestantism and Catcholicism is the same, except for some MINOR differences, really. I don't know when Coras became a Protestant, but I think it happened after the "case of the Impostor". Most judges didn't believe in a God, but claimed to be Catholic at that time, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Protestantism played a part in the Jury's verdict BEFORE the real Martin's arrival, after Martin's arrival there is no doubt that they only used one thing for their verdict, the fact that everyone, including Bertrande confirmed that the Real Martin was indeed the real one. The added Principals to the musical are Guillaume, Benoit, Father Dominic and the Protestants André and Catherine, and a bunch of minor villagers. I recall most names being taken from Coras' book, and even the testimony of Lubin the tailor and Galoche the cobbler (which appear in the musical) appearing in Coras' book. For the rest differences are minor, except from the musicals ending, which takes an interesting twist to the original story, and doesn't have Martin hanging Arnaud with the court and the chruch's permission. The judge was hung for being a Protestant...Ironic, isn't it? As he, on contrary of the rest of the jury, didn't want to sentence Arnaud to death. Edited February 22, 2010 by Enjolras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 The way I remember it, was that Coras, was a protestant during the trial...and true, he didn't want to hang Martin, but his hands became tied when the real MG showed. Some historians said that was because he felt sympathy towards Martin being a protestant during this time. The musical just has Martin hanging Arnaud just because he could?! or was it the village's choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 The way I remember it, was that Coras, was a protestant during the trial...and true, he didn't want to hang Martin, but his hands became tied when the real MG showed. Some historians said that was because he felt sympathy towards Martin being a protestant during this time. The musical just has Martin hanging Arnaud just because he could?! or was it the village's choice? Yes, it could be he was, But another thing is that Coras is confirmed to be a righteous and lawful judge, and if you look at the files of the case EVERYTHING said contradicts each other until the real Martin's arrival. So I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't want to sentence him due to lack of evidence. I don't think sympathy was his main motivator for this, then. No, that's the story most usually used, I'm saying the musical DOESN'T have that story, but something very surprising instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) That's interesting as well...I haven't actually seen the documents, but have read a few of the historian's interruptions of them (mainly the one that was written by Natalie Zemon Davis, found her name finally). Yep, I can't debate that, Coras was extremely lawful and fair. ...hmm, interesting...haha, not that i'm actually going to watch the musical, but plot twist = (need to find the shocked smiley) while I enjoy plot twists in animes/movies/books etc...historical plot twists, can be either hit or miss for me... Edited February 22, 2010 by Hatari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Langobalt looks really, really broken in the Crazy patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 That's interesting as well...I haven't actually seen the documents, but have read a few of the historian's interruptions of them (mainly the one that was written by Natalie Zemon Davis, found her name finally). Yep, I can't debate that, Coras was extremely lawful and fair. ...hmm, interesting...haha, not that i'm actually going to watch the musical, but plot twist = (need to find the shocked smiley) while I enjoy plot twists in animes/movies/books etc...historical plot twists, can be either hit or miss for me... I haven't seen everything, but I remember a lot from what I've read when researching the case, and apparently 50 witnesses were undecided, 50 defended Arnaud and 50 accused Arnaud. (More or less, not exact numbers), so the case was bound to be dismissed, as all evidence was contradicted by one of the other side. I love it personally, but I hate spoiling stuff like that, otherwise I'd tell it...you never know someone is gonna watch it, eh =). But It's just that with the path the musical took the classic ending COULDN'T work, no matter how accurate. It was a definite HIT for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 the judges called on the villagers to help them solve the case and yes, from what i read, everything was pretty fairly split, between, yes, no, maybe. haha lol, that's good...Elizabeth the Golden Age, i think is the last historically based movie I saw, it was pretty good...would need to go back and watch it and analyze it before I could give a better review of it on the historical side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 the judges called on the villagers to help them solve the case and yes, from what i read, everything was pretty fairly split, between, yes, no, maybe. haha lol, that's good...Elizabeth the Golden Age, i think is the last historically based movie I saw, it was pretty good...would need to go back and watch it and analyze it before I could give a better review of it on the historical side. Indeed. I recall there was a clear division between Protestants and Catholics there too. Maybe I should PM the ending to you? If you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 yep yep...there usually is a clear division between the two. Sure, that works. It also gives everyone else the chance to reclaim the board...Sorry everyone else who was reading/lurking and not understanding this :(. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 yep yep...there usually is a clear division between the two. Sure, that works. It also gives everyone else the chance to reclaim the board...Sorry everyone else who was reading/lurking and not understanding this :(. Indeed. Okay. Oh, it happens so often. Nobody minds, and who knows, we might've awakened someone's interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 haha, anything historical, I'm in...and lol...i suppose, but it was just so quiet while all this was going on. and this is the FE4 Thread...haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassieCinders Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 haha, anything historical, I'm in...and lol...i suppose, but it was just so quiet while all this was going on. and this is the FE4 Thread...haha. I love certain aspects of history and dislike others, but this is one of my favorites =) And this thread barely discusses FE4, it's always something else, so it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) FE4 in FE4 Thread? No, we don't do that. In fact, there is one prominent poster here who doesn't even like FE4. Can you believe that? What sort of fool would post in a topic that is named after a game he doesn't even like? Madness I say. Edited February 22, 2010 by Musashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Well, I was more so addressing the fact that the FE4 thread is very rarely if ever QUIET, like dead silence with only two people discussing. You all usually have madness and insanity in bundles (yesterday during the time I was mainly here, being the exception to that rule apparently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 FE4 in FE4 Thread? No, we don't do that. In fact, there is one prominent poster here who doesn't even like FE4. Can you believe that? What sort of fool would post in a topic that is named after a game he doesn't even like? Madness I say. Clearly he should be decapitated when the sun is at high noon after a very busy night with the executionner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Clearly he should be decapitated when the sun is at high noon after a very busy night with the executionner. He deserves a death far worse than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 He deserves a death far worse than that. Do you have anything in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatari Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 ...not going there...not going there...one of the drawbacks of history is all of the morbid and gory details that are prone to appear...depending on the time and place... medieval torture, roman torture, Spanish inquisition, etc. *cringes* brutal stuff that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Do you have anything in mind? Nothing specific, it just has to be slow and painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Nothing specific, it just has to be slow and painful. What about that one, with the horses and the rope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthur Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Do you have anything in mind? Spending a whole day with Gio. Edited February 22, 2010 by Marthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Spending a whole day with Gio. Not painful enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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