Your opinion on the best mage?

[Candlejack]

my favorites are Ilyana and Tormod, even though Mic is the best I voted for Ily she has a lot of space to grow and no competition for Rexthunder.

Just because she can use it doesn't make her a good character and just because she has a lot of availability doesn't mean she'll make good use of it. Leonardo for instance.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Robert of Lenster

[Bryan]

The only one I don't use is Callil. :/

Illyana is awesome though. :)

[Deliriyum]

Soren, Calil, Pelleas as best. Oliver as worst. Also, about this ORKOing Levail, I always have Soren do it with Blizzard. He doubles him for 32 x2 damage approx, and resolve has no effect.

[Deliriyum]

The only one I don't use is Callil. :/

Illyana is awesome though. :)

What's wrong with you? I command you to use Calil ASAP.

[Zakaerys]

Calill is absolutely terrible... The only this she can do is double Auras and she has Meteor in 2-E. Besides the inefficiency of actually raising her to endgame level, you can't make use of her doubling Dheg. She needs capped HP, a defense support, and Night Tide to even survive with 2 HP, and she'll get killed off by the AoE or if another Dragon attacks her. This 34 speed is incredibly over-hyped...

[Deliriyum]

Calill is absolutely terrible... The only this she can do is double Auras and she has Meteor in 2-E. Besides the inefficiency of actually raising her to endgame level, you can't make use of her doubling Dheg. She needs capped HP, a defense support, and Night Tide to even survive with 2 HP, and she'll get killed off by the AoE or if another Dragon attacks her. This 34 speed is incredibly over-hyped...

How so? She did have a hard time surviving Dheg, she had 1 hp left, with cap hp. But thats really all she needs because I will be using fortify if dheg isn't dead. Yes she isn't available for some time, but She has great growths all around and certainly can contribute to one of your teams in part 4, so she's useful to raise. Why is she inefficient to raise for endgame?

[Candlejack]

SCREW MAGES I HAVE MORDY

[Zakaerys]

Calill is absolutely terrible... The only this she can do is double Auras and she has Meteor in 2-E. Besides the inefficiency of actually raising her to endgame level, you can't make use of her doubling Dheg. She needs capped HP, a defense support, and Night Tide to even survive with 2 HP, and she'll get killed off by the AoE or if another Dragon attacks her. This 34 speed is incredibly over-hyped...

How so? She did have a hard time surviving Dheg, she had 1 hp left, with cap hp. But thats really all she needs because I will be using fortify if dheg isn't dead. Yes she isn't available for some time, but She has great growths all around and certainly can contribute to one of your teams in part 4, so she's useful to raise. Why is she inefficient to raise for endgame?

Because, mages in general are poor for endgame, the easiest part of the game, so what they do before should carry more weight when their fairly more useful right? Well Micaiah and Soren are much better than Calill before endgame, and during endgame Micaiah can still perform better, as said before, Nosferatu on the Dragon Chapter.

She is inefficient to raise for endgame because she can barely gain 4 levels before 3-11, where most of your planned units should be transitioning to third tier, and she doesn't perform well at all in that Chapter, or at 3-endgame.

You could take her to 4-5, but that takes 30-40 turns, hardly efficient play.

Now, let's say you do take her to endgame. First off, she faces a bunch of generals. If she's 20/20/5, she can't double without Rexflame, which unfortunately, is stuck at 15 uses. Even if she did use it, she's not killing anything, and 15 uses get's used up pretty quickly. Come 4-E-2, and she's not doing much better. I'll admit, she can help use a Siege tome on Levail, but that's about it, and Micaiah and Sanaki can do the same, and with the help of Leanne or Rafiel, they can kill him in one turn without Calill's help. Moving on to the dragon chapter, where she can finally use Rexflame, she get's killed off in two shots by the red dragons, and deals crappy damage to White Dragons. And for funzies, the maximum damage she can do vs. Dheg is 9 x 2. That's IF she caps magic and has an A Water support. That's really not great. In fact, with a Bolting she does more damage per hit. Past 4-E-3 all the enemies have high resistance, and she is stuck to spirit killing. Real special.

I've used Calill before, and I liked her, but really, the extra damage output in Endgame compared to her other mages isn't worth her major suck period before endgame. I'm surprised Tormod doesn't get more fandom, because he can do the same thing Calill does in Endgame. And he actually is fairly useful in most of his chapters before endgame. I know, he comes in one chapter before endgame at second tier, but Calill comes with only 4 chapters. Is that really that much better?

[Sanger]

Bastian.

[Deliriyum]

Calill is absolutely terrible... The only this she can do is double Auras and she has Meteor in 2-E. Besides the inefficiency of actually raising her to endgame level, you can't make use of her doubling Dheg. She needs capped HP, a defense support, and Night Tide to even survive with 2 HP, and she'll get killed off by the AoE or if another Dragon attacks her. This 34 speed is incredibly over-hyped...

How so? She did have a hard time surviving Dheg, she had 1 hp left, with cap hp. But thats really all she needs because I will be using fortify if dheg isn't dead. Yes she isn't available for some time, but She has great growths all around and certainly can contribute to one of your teams in part 4, so she's useful to raise. Why is she inefficient to raise for endgame?

Because, mages in general are poor for endgame, the easiest part of the game, so what they do before should carry more weight when their fairly more useful right? Well Micaiah and Soren are much better than Calill before endgame, and during endgame Micaiah can still perform better, as said before, Nosferatu on the Dragon Chapter.

She is inefficient to raise for endgame because she can barely gain 4 levels before 3-11, where most of your planned units should be transitioning to third tier, and she doesn't perform well at all in that Chapter, or at 3-endgame.

You could take her to 4-5, but that takes 30-40 turns, hardly efficient play.

Now, let's say you do take her to endgame. First off, she faces a bunch of generals. If she's 20/20/5, she can't double without Rexflame, which unfortunately, is stuck at 15 uses. Even if she did use it, she's not killing anything, and 15 uses get's used up pretty quickly. Come 4-E-2, and she's not doing much better. I'll admit, she can help use a Siege tome on Levail, but that's about it, and Micaiah and Sanaki can do the same, and with the help of Leanne or Rafiel, they can kill him in one turn without Calill's help. Moving on to the dragon chapter, where she can finally use Rexflame, she get's killed off in two shots by the red dragons, and deals crappy damage to White Dragons. And for funzies, the maximum damage she can do vs. Dheg is 9 x 2. That's IF she caps magic and has an A Water support. That's really not great. In fact, with a Bolting she does more damage per hit. Past 4-E-3 all the enemies have high resistance, and she is stuck to spirit killing. Real special.

I've used Calill before, and I liked her, but really, the extra damage output in Endgame compared to her other mages isn't worth her major suck period before endgame. I'm surprised Tormod doesn't get more fandom, because he can do the same thing Calill does in Endgame. And he actually is fairly useful in most of his chapters before endgame. I know, he comes in one chapter before endgame at second tier, but Calil comes with only 4 chapters. Is that really that much better?

I reject your reality and substitute it with my own. Alright, I admit, the facts show her to be an inefficient character. I have a different view of inefficient than you, so I'm not even gonna argue it. All I can say is, it's possible to make her into a good unit. Also the fact that I haven't used her on normal or hard mode. On easy mode, however, she ORKO'd all the normal units during endgame I had her attack, so good enough for me.

Edited December 31, 2009 by core34510

[Kinata]

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a noob, but I think my definition of "best" is different than most people here. I consider how good a character is based off of stats, usable weapons, affinity, and supports while this topic has been about "usefulness" which also includes factors like availibility and necessity. But that's just my definition, I don't know if there is some agreed up def. Anyway, according to my def, Lehran is easily the best. Those stats, wow...wow. Especially in speed and movement when compared to other mages. So I picked him. As for who is the most useful, I have so far only tried Micaiah, Soren, Rhys, and Sanaki. Rhys and Sanaki simply sucked, I hope I don't to have to explain myself there. As for Soren and Micaiah, they are actually quite similar. I think Soren is better mainly because of promotions and their mastery skills. Micaiah promotes late the first time, then she has trouble getting to level 20 in time without favoritism, and yet she will still be underleveled in the endgame. Soren is as easy to raise as the rest of the GM's. Also, Flare is so much better than Corona (I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet). Flare actually makes Soren a durable unit. In 4-4, I put him in the middle of a good amount of enemies and he had no trouble surviving thanks to Flare. With his magic, an activation of Flare will usuall fully heal him and he usually has almost a 1/3 chance of activating. Micaiah's higher luck does increase her avoid, but Flare is still better for durability. Thani doesn't matter that much since generals don't have that much resistance, and wind magic is better than light.

[Deliriyum]

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a noob, but I think my definition of "best" is different than most people here. I consider how good a character is based off of stats, usable weapons, affinity, and supports while this topic has been about "usefulness" which also includes factors like availibility and necessity. But that's just my definition, I don't know if there is some agreed up def. Anyway, according to my def, Lehran is easily the best. Those stats, wow...wow. Especially in speed and movement when compared to other mages. So I picked him. As for who is the most useful, I have so far only tried Micaiah, Soren, Rhys, and Sanaki. Rhys and Sanaki simply sucked, I hope I don't to have to explain myself there. As for Soren and Micaiah, they are actually quite similar. I think Soren is better mainly because of promotions and their mastery skills. Micaiah promotes late the first time, then she has trouble getting to level 20 in time without favoritism, and yet she will still be underleveled in the endgame. Soren is as easy to raise as the rest of the GM's. Also, Flare is so much better than Corona (I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet). Flare actually makes Soren a durable unit. In 4-4, I put him in the middle of a good amount of enemies and he had no trouble surviving thanks to Flare. With his magic, an activation of Flare will usuall fully heal him and he usually has almost a 1/3 chance of activating. Micaiah's higher luck does increase her avoid, but Flare is still better for durability. Thani doesn't matter that much since generals don't have that much resistance, and wind magic is better than light.

By Soren and Micaiah being similar you mean Micaiah gets doubled and Soren doubles? Soren can dodge quite effectively, especially with an Ike support, Micaiah might be able to dodge better, but she still will be doubled a lot in part 3 and 4 if you expose her to danger. Also, be 4-E-1, Thani probably can't even OHKO the generals anymore and I highly doubt she'll be doubling them. Rhys is quite slow and lacks avoid. Sanaki is good once she gets a few points of strength and speed so she isn't weighed down and can double. However, she will always be quite fragile.

[Kinata]

Micaiah is actually similar to Soren statwise, with the main difference being she has much more luck. The problems you mentioned are because it is such a hassle to raise her.

[Ether]

Just to clear things up,Soren doesn't double without favoritism.He starts around the same Speed as the enemies,slower than quite a few actually.And he has a low growth in speed.

Soren also does not have reliable Avo with an Ike support,and he's still too fragile to use that Avo effectively.

And that's if Soren even get's an Ike support,since what ike wants more than anything is someone who can keep up,and kills like him,without slowing him down,and that is not Soren.

Micaiah is easily the best mage in this game,since her chip damage is around when it's important,and she can hit armours hard,which no one else on the team does effectively.

[Deliriyum]

Just to clear things up,Soren doesn't double without favoritism.He starts around the same Speed as the enemies,slower than quite a few actually.And he has a low growth in speed.

Soren also does not have reliable Avo with an Ike support,and he's still too fragile to use that Avo effectively.

And that's if Soren even get's an Ike support,since what ike wants more than anything is someone who can keep up,and kills like him,without slowing him down,and that is not Soren.

Micaiah is easily the best mage in this game,since her chip damage is around when it's important,and she can hit armours hard,which no one else on the team does effectively.

Wow, I just checked their growths, and they have the same speed. I guess the fact that Micaiah has a much lower base speed and smaller amount of time to grow in her 2nd tier is what really makes her slow. As for the Soren x Ike, an A support between them can be very useful, particularly once Soren starts doubling. The only other option that I would see rivaling that is Ike x Oscar, but other people want Oscar's support more than Ike. Ike isn't really going to get hit hard by things, except mages, He won't have hit problems, and his attack is sufficient.

[Florete]

Soren doubling? That's laughable. That's not even easy in NM, much less HM. Either way it requires a good deal of BEXP and probably a crown.

[Ether]

Just to clear things up,Soren doesn't double without favoritism.He starts around the same Speed as the enemies,slower than quite a few actually.And he has a low growth in speed.

Soren also does not have reliable Avo with an Ike support,and he's still too fragile to use that Avo effectively.

And that's if Soren even get's an Ike support,since what ike wants more than anything is someone who can keep up,and kills like him,without slowing him down,and that is not Soren.

Micaiah is easily the best mage in this game,since her chip damage is around when it's important,and she can hit armours hard,which no one else on the team does effectively.

Wow, I just checked their growths, and they have the same speed. I guess the fact that Micaiah has a much lower base speed and smaller amount of time to grow in her 2nd tier is what really makes her slow. As for the Soren x Ike, an A support between them can be very useful, particularly once Soren starts doubling. The only other option that I would see rivaling that is Ike x Oscar, but other people want Oscar's support more than Ike. Ike isn't really going to get hit hard by things, except mages, He won't have hit problems, and his attack is sufficient.

Like I said,Ike only needs the Avo from his own affinity,so the only thing he really wants is someone who doesn;t slow him down.

The only people who accomplish this in HM are Mia,Crown!Gatrie,Crown!Speedwing!Titania,and Haar.

Soren is one of the last people Ike wants to support since Soren needs to be shielded,so ike can't dive into a sea of enemies like He could with Mia or Gatrie,because he needs to guard Soren.

[Kinata]

It's not that hard to protect Soren. Just keep him with the rest of the team and each turn, kill the surronding enemies. It's not like you have to surrond him with 4 characters every turn. The main argument for Micaiah is she is needed in part 1. I've only played NM, but Edward and Nolan aren't that bad. They can probably hold their own until you get guys like Sothe and Zihark, especially if they start to support each other. I used her, but I don't think she is so necessary that it makes her better than Soren. And is Thani really that necessary (not a rhetorical question)?

[Deliriyum]

Soren doubling? That's laughable. That's not even easy in NM, much less HM. Either way it requires a good deal of BEXP and probably a crown.

Laughable? Wrong. At least in EM it is certainly not laughable. In EM, Soren starts doubling things, maybe around 3-10/11 depending on how much he is being used. once he promotes, he doubles nearly everything.

The only people who accomplish this in HM are Mia,Crown!Gatrie,Crown!Speedwing!Titania,and Haar.

Mia certainly does not seem like a good choice to me, at least not until after the first few chapters of part 3. Her avoid is only reliable against some units, granted Ike's earth will fix this, but still she is rather fragile. Yes Gatrie would be good. I wouldn't put so much into Titania just to get her to make a good support with Ike. And with Haar, I can't see them being near each other that much. 3-2: lolbigmap, 3-3: Haar is probably going around burning things, 3-4: They could conceivably be close to each other as there isn't really anything Haar needs to rush to, 3-5 : They could be close here, 3-7 Haar will most likely be over the water, and Ike might be recruiting Janaff and Ulki. 3-8 : This would work....You get the idea. Haar has other business to attend to. Yes you could stay in a chapter a few turns longer with Haar holding Ike or something, but you might be missing out on BEXP.

It's not that hard to protect Soren. Just keep him with the rest of the team and each turn, kill the surronding enemies. It's not like you have to surrond him with 4 characters every turn. The main argument for Micaiah is she is needed in part 1. I've only played NM, but Edward and Nolan aren't that bad. They can probably hold their own until you get guys like Sothe and Zihark, especially if they start to support each other. I used her, but I don't think she is so necessary that it makes her better than Soren. And is Thani really that necessary (not a rhetorical question)?

Thani gets its main usage in chapter 3, and a few chapters scattered throughout that part. You don't have a big reason to use it again until 4-1, and by endgame, it's not OHKOing anymore. Yes, I think you're right about Soren, he can take a hit from one, maybe 2 enemies, which may be preferred in a controlled situation as then Soren gets exp and so does a healer

Edited January 1, 2010 by core34510

[Kinata]

I found Soren decent when you get him, and awesome when he promotes. Like I said before, Flare really helps with durability and with it, you really don't have to protect him at all. You will always have to protect Micaiah. By the way, is Lehran's movement 6 or 8? According to SF, Sephiran and the Chancellor class has a movement of 6 while Lehran has a movement of 8, which I find unlikely. And wow, I think Core and I posted our last reply at the same time to the second.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Kinata

[Deliriyum]

I found Soren decent when you get him, and awesome when he promotes. Like I said before, Flare really helps with durability and with it, you really don't have to protect him at all. You will always have to protect Micaiah. By the way, is Lehran's movement 6 or 8? According to SF, Sephiran and the Chancellor class has a movement of 6 while Lehran has a movement of 8, which I find unlikely. And wow, I think Core and I posted our last reply at the same time to the second.

3-5 comes to mind as a great chapter for Soren to shine. He could help deal with generals on the right, or ledge tank on the left.

[Florete]

Soren doubling? That's laughable. That's not even easy in NM, much less HM. Either way it requires a good deal of BEXP and probably a crown.

Laughable? Wrong. At least in EM it is certainly not laughable. In EM, Soren starts doubling things, maybe around 3-10/11 depending on how much he is being used. once he promotes, he doubles nearly everything.

Why do you think I left EM out? Everyone doubles on EM.

[Kinata]

According to their average stats, at any level, Soren is about 2 faster than Micaiah. And if Micaiah doesn't hit level 20 before she promotes the second time, and she likely won't without favoritism, she will be slower by even more. So that's not really a good point against Soren.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Kinata

[Florete]

According to their average stats, at any level, Soren is about 2 faster than Micaiah. And if Micaiah doesn't hit level 20 before she promotes the second time, and she likely won't without favoritism, she will be slower by even more. So that's not really a good point against Soren.

Different teams, different enemies. A direct stat comparison between the two is absolutely useless. Micaiah may never double, but she doesn't need to to beat Soren.

[NinjaMonkey]

Why do you think I left EM out? Everyone doubles on EM.

Nasir and Gareth say hi!