Where is the transparency?

[Superbus]

Since Eaichu and Layla seem to have destroyed the relevant topic, I'm going to ask this here:

This new ticketing system. I'm seeing tickets that are created... and they just disappear into a black hole. Only the staff can see them.

How is this different from my old report system? And even more, where is the transparency? Where is the showing to the members putting in tickets that their shit is even being looked at? You stated this was a change for the better, and this seems to have become worse.

I hope I'm reading this wrong - I'm not going through 150 posts of that other shitshow topic - but this isn't a good start at all.

[Cynthia]

Since Eaichu and Layla seem to have destroyed the relevant topic, I'm going to ask this here:

This new ticketing system. I'm seeing tickets that are created... and they just disappear into a black hole. Only the staff can see them.

How is this different from my old report system? And even more, where is the transparency? Where is the showing to the members putting in tickets that their shit is even being looked at? You stated this was a change for the better, and this seems to have become worse.

I hope I'm reading this wrong - I'm not going through 150 posts of that other shitshow topic - but this isn't a good start at all.

I just used the ticket system. I got a rather quick response from a staff member stating they read my question and gave me a decent answer. When the staff read your ticket you generally get a response from them.

Also, this section is for asking questions about the site and not the forums.

[Superbus]

I just used the ticket system. I got a rather quick response from a staff member stating they read my question and gave me a decent answer. When the staff read your ticket you generally get a response from them.

Also, this section is for asking questions about the site and not the forums.

I understand what the forum is for, but again, the relevant forum where I would ask is gone. I wasn't putting in a ticket, because I want it public.

Really, I ask again: where is the transparency? It's one thing if a mod asks my question, but now there's no place for members to put things to public discourse. I had to "break" the "rules" to put this up.

[Cynthia]

I understand what the forum is for, but again, the relevant forum where I would ask is gone. I wasn't putting in a ticket, because I want it public.

Really, I ask again: where is the transparency? It's one thing if a mod asks my question, but now there's no place for members to put things to public discourse. I had to "break" the "rules" to put this up.

Well if you want feedback before submitting an idea as a ticket you could always make a topic in the general section (since there is no real specific aim for that section) and gather your support then submit it as a ticket showing who supports the idea and other's feedback.

The ticket system allows some members to remain anonymous if they should choose.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Cynthia

[Superbus]

Well if you want feedback before submitting an idea as a ticket you could always make a topic in the general section (since there is no real specific aim for that section) and gather your support then submit it as a ticket showing who supports the idea and other's feedback.

The ticket system allows some members to remain anonymous if they should choose.

OK, but what if I make the notes of my ticket public knowledge? Will I - or really, someone other than me - be disciplined? Are those liable for public knowledge should I choose to? Someone wants to be anonymous... what about PMs? And again, there's no longer forums for forum suggestions in a public manner. A question like this I have to ask here, because the thread in announcements got ruined, technically can't be asked, especially since everyone's going to just minimod it before a real mod has to come in and close it, because they have no choice at that point (because really, there's no institutional control, why should I respect them if no one else does).

I still maintain that the number one problem we have is that there's too much happening behind the curtain.

[Cynthia]

OK, but what if I make the notes of my ticket public knowledge? Will I - or really, someone other than me - be disciplined? Are those liable for public knowledge should I choose to? Someone wants to be anonymous... what about PMs? And again, there's no longer forums for forum suggestions in a public manner. A question like this I have to ask here, because the thread in announcements got ruined, technically can't be asked, especially since everyone's going to just minimod it before a real mod has to come in and close it, because they have no choice at that point (because really, there's no institutional control, why should I respect them if no one else does).

I still maintain that the number one problem we have is that there's too much happening behind the curtain.

As far as I know, you are perfectly allowed to make the contents of your own ticket public knowledge. So you can always make a discussion about it in General, or just get a group of people's opinions you actually consider meaningful together and discuss it on the IRC or MSN or some other way for you to communicate.

I understand there's no specific forum for it now, but you can always post it in general, and make the contents of your own ticket public. There was no discussion of that being in any way against the rules, just keep in mind though that a public discussion is not required for staff input, and they aren't required to do anything about your suggestion until you submit a ticket.

I know the knew system isn't what you want it to be, but you can still sort of work things the way you want them, just gotta get used to a new method.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Cynthia

[Superbus]

As far as I know, you are perfectly allowed to make the contents of your own ticket public knowledge. So you can always make a discussion about it in General, or just get a group of people's opinions you actually consider meaningful together and discuss it on the IRC or MSN or some other way for you to communicate.

I understand there's no specific forum for it now, but you can always post it in general, and make the contents of your own ticket public. There was no discussion of that being in any way against the rules, just keep in mind though that a public discussion is not required for staff input, and they aren't required to do anything about your suggestion until you submit a ticket.

I know the knew system isn't what you want it to be, but you can still sort of work things the way you want them, just gotta get used to a new method.

OK, but... no offence, but you're not the person I want to hear from on this. That's not really an affront on you, but I want to hear from the staff, Josh in particular.

[Cynthia]

OK, but... no offence, but you're not the person I want to hear from on this. That's not really an affront on you, but I want to hear from the staff, Josh in particular.

I understand completely. Good luck in your endeavor.

[Crystal Shards]

Josh refuses to see the problem Bus. Several others brought up the same problem and he immediately was like, "I'm not budging," "I'd prefer to have these guys upset and most others happy," and, my personal favorite, "Why bother you with suggestions that aren't even being considered?"

Note that those are paraphrases.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Let me ask one question of Jyo then?

Is it alright for people to post topics in General for discussing things about the site they want discussed, before they submit a Ticket? If so, then I think the system is fine.

If not, yeah, transparency would be a bit nicer.

[Crystal Shards]

Is it alright for people to post topics in General for discussing things about the site they want discussed, before they submit a Ticket? If so, then I think the system is fine.

If that's the case then why not have a Questions/Suggestions forum?

[Defeatist Elitist]

If that's the case then why not have a Questions/Suggestions forum?

I know, I know. I wasn't going to mention that until after he answered.

[Cynthia]

If that's the case then why not have a Questions/Suggestions forum?

I think the main reason why is because it caused a lot of debate which erupted into fighting once too many times. If you look at the big picture this makes it easier on the staff. They can get the suggestion BEFORE it's filled with 3-10 pages of people debating on it or fighting. And get right to the point. If an idea is a good idea more people will be submitting tickets for that idea.

So instead of trying to find who supports and who opposes in a topic, they can just check each person's ticket. The system can help a lot if you use it actively. Why not try it?

[Crystal Shards]

I think the main reason why is because it caused a lot of debate which erupted into fighting once too many times. If you look at the big picture this makes it easier on the staff. They can get the suggestion BEFORE it's filled with 3-10 pages of people debating on it or fighting. And get right to the point. If an idea is a good idea more people will be submitting tickets for that idea.

So instead of trying to find who supports and who opposes in a topic, they can just check each person's ticket. The system can help a lot if you use it actively. Why not try it?

Um, the problem isn't with the ticket system. Please comprehend what's going on before adding useless input. Thanks.

[Cynthia]

Um, the problem isn't with the ticket system. Please comprehend what's going on before adding useless input. Thanks.

I also addressed your question, darling.

You asked "why not have a questions/suggestions board" and I addressed that.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Cynthia

[Defeatist Elitist]

I also addressed your question, darling.

You asked "why not have a questions/suggestions board" and I addressed that.

Nonono. You misunderstand. What she's saying is, IF we implement the ticket system, and IF we have the option of discussing in General before submitting, then why not create a Questions and Suggestions board for us to do that in BEFORE submitting?

[Cynthia]

Nonono. You misunderstand. What she's saying is, IF we implement the ticket system, and IF we have the option of discussing in General before submitting, then why not create a Questions and Suggestions board for us to do that in BEFORE submitting?

And I gave an answer as to why. It may not be the one either of you wanted, but it WAS an answer. It doesn't mean I didn't comprehend the problem it just means my answer wasn't the one you were hoping to find.

[Defeatist Elitist]

And I gave an answer as to why. It may not be the one either of you wanted, but it WAS an answer. It doesn't mean I didn't comprehend the problem it just means my answer wasn't the one you were hoping to find.

No, because it doesn't make sense. Your answer doesn't make sense when used as an answer to that question.

[Crystal Shards]

And I gave an answer as to why. It may not be the one either of you wanted, but it WAS an answer. It doesn't mean I didn't comprehend the problem it just means my answer wasn't the one you were hoping to find.

Firstly, the question wasn't directed toward you, and secondly, if you're not going to answer the question in any helpful manner you really shouldn't post. If you comprehend the question as you say you do, then you shouldn't be posting off-topic blather.

Anyway, we're clogging up the topic, so I'm not going to post after this, at least until a staff member (hopefully Josh) answers.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Crystal Shards

[Kratos]

A thread in general would just get shitposted to Hell anyways. (Not that threads don't get shitposted everywhere else {IE the "Ticket System" thread})

I really don't see what the big deal is to having a QnA/Suggestion board is, unless there is some yellow tape I am missing.

[Rodykitty]

I really don't see what the big deal is to having a QnA/Suggestion board is, unless there is some yellow tape I am missing.

The big deal is that this community is one that can't have a civil discussion on how the site is run, and instead every serious thread about the site's future turns into complete garbage that gets locked.

I would say I fully agree with users losing the privilege to discuss these things publically, because they never actually discuss them (and those that do are considered misinformed or dumb), they just bark at Jyo for his decisions, begin personal (jokingly) quarrels that belong in PM or FftF, "make a statement" about how all of the people in the thread are drama whores, and in the end everyone ignores how correct Superbus is, and the thread is locked with a final statement with a mods.

I do agree with Superbus' issue that people that submit tickets should be able to see their own tickets and the status on them.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Chainey

[Tino]

How is this different from my old report system? And even more, where is the transparency? Where is the showing to the members putting in tickets that their shit is even being looked at? You stated this was a change for the better, and this seems to have become worse.

Worse? How? Now we don't have all the shitposting in the suggestion forums, and you really need not worry about tickets not being looked at. We chose to do this for a reason, and that reason was not to ignore the tickets posted. The only thing that may happen is that it'll take a while before someone responds because it requires some more thought, but I can assure you that tickets won't be neglegcted... Unless they're in violation of the rules, obviously, but I take it everyone is intelligent enough to understand they shouldn't abuse the ticket system.

I hope I'm reading this wrong - I'm not going through 150 posts of that other shitshow topic - but this isn't a good start at all.

The only thing that went wrong was those people shitposting. So far we haven't experienced any negatives when using this ticket system; no abuse, just normal suggestions and the like.

I understand what the forum is for, but again, the relevant forum where I would ask is gone. I wasn't putting in a ticket, because I want it public.

I don't quite understand why you posted this thread in the first place; you also could've posted it in the thread intended for discussing the ticket system.

Also, that's exactly the reason the ticket system was set up: we don't want these things to be public ("these things" being suggestions and complaints) until we've had a more thorough look at them.

Well if you want feedback before submitting an idea as a ticket you could always make a topic in the general section (since there is no real specific aim for that section) and gather your support then submit it as a ticket showing who supports the idea and other's feedback.

Do you even realize what you're suggesting? This completely destroys the entire purpose of everything we've done, as it means everyone still gets to talk about suggestions etc. publicly before we have even seen, let alone discussed it.

So gather support through PMs or IMs or something, but not publicly on the forum.

So:

Will I - or really, someone other than me - be disciplined?

Yes.

The reason I'm not deleting this topic but instead close it is because it's a continuation of the original announcement. However, it does conflict with the way we set this up. That's why I'm merely closing this. However, any and all further topics like this will be deleted, and the poster will get his/her well-deserved warning.

As far as I know, you are perfectly allowed to make the contents of your own ticket public knowledge. So you can always make a discussion about it in General, or just get a group of people's opinions you actually consider meaningful together and discuss it on the IRC or MSN or some other way for you to communicate.

Tell me, why would we let people post tickets privately and then allow them to discuss its contents publicly?

Then there were some more posts about whether you should be able to discuss it in the general forum. Obviously, that doesn't make sense when we made those tickets private for a reason. Go ahead and discuss it with whomever you want over PMs or IMs. Don't discuss it publicly on the forum.

That reason being? The sheer idiocy of a fairly large amount of our members when it comes to discussing site issues. This is not meant as an offense towards those members, but I can't just deny the truth.

Now take this to the tickets, if you don't mind.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Tino

[Jyosua]

I would just like to point out, what happened in this thread is EXACTLY WHY the ticket system is being used.