A few questions about FE5

[Don Draper]

People always bring up the extra Pugi in route B, but its a moot point. You should be using a repair staff use for a warp staff, and you get two extras in the A route. Therefore, that use that could of been spent on an extra warp staff had you gone to the B route can now be spent on the Pugi instead.

[_____]

I don't even know how this is a contest. Scrolls make stats basically interchangeable unless you're lolMarty, and Olwen's daim thunder beats Eyrios' unreliable activation-based skills. Plus Olwen has 4 PCC instead of 0.

42% activation rate for Prayer is half the time. How is that unreliable?

Stats are a complete blowout. 18 HP, 6 Strength, 5 skill (like that matters), 4 Speed, 9 Luck, 6 Defense, and 1 Build compared to... 1 Magic. Whoa.

You're also stressing scrolls way too much. It's not like Olwen is the only character that can use these, and most of the bonuses just aren't that great. The only noticeable ones that she can get in a reasonable time frame would be the Sety and Odo scrolls, and most people want the Sety scroll. She also levels fairly slowly.

PCC only activates on the second attack if the user is double attacking naturally. It doesn't work with Daim Thunder, so it's practically useless.

Olwen also needs Ambush to have an actual enemy phase.

It's actually pretty close.

[Renall]

1. Olwens only way of killing (daim thunder) doesn't have anything to do with PCC. In fact, olwen using PCC is bad because that means she took a hit.

"Only way of killing." Yes, way to completely sandbag her. She can kill things without her personal weapon.

2. Eyrios has INSANE durability. 40/10 compared to olwens 24/4.

lol guys Othin is a shitty character compared to Conomore I mean look Conomore at his base stats when he joins 20 chapters after Othin totally own Othin's bases.

Seriously, listen to yourself. Eyrios's durability is better, but it's completely unfair to compare his bases to Olwen's like she's not going to level any.

Olwen NEEDS daim thunder. that is the only way she gets any kills.

Again, nnnnnnnno? She has 10 base MAG and can use Thunder, Fire, or Wind at discretion. With her base 10 SPD, she has an AS of 5-9, which is certainly enough to double some things.

3. Olwen levels slowly and starts with crap stats. Sure you can find an excuse to baby her but she still rises as fast a slug. Literally. Eyrios starts with amazing stats, so by the time olwen gets any AS, it is Eyrios time.

Promoted units don't gain hideously slow exp really, and there's lots of guys to kill in chapters like 14.

Eyrios's bases aren't even that impressive for his level. Sure, Olwen's aren't either, and they both have high growths, but comparing Eyrios to an equivalent-leveled Fergus - before scrolls, which Fergus has had lots of time to be able to use - he's pretty lousy. Having tomes is basically what saves him.

Oh and 0 PCC. Let's not all totally forget that shit.

4. AS. Oh yea. -12 AS from daimthunder, the only weapon she can kill with! It takes scroll abuse just to get positive AS. That means that if she fails hit twice with daimthunder, she DIES. 70 base it with daim thunder. Thracia style RNG. Everyone doubles her.

Or you can use other tomes, but that's clearly not your objective here.

5. Ballistae. Ambush doesn't work here. They 2RKO her. 24/4

Guys Saphy is Bottom Tier because BALLISTAS ONE-SHOT HER ZOMG!

6. Unreliable skills? Eyrios has extreme luck which gives him high chances with prayer (it makes him almost impossble to kill-

By this point in the game I'm not that worried about people dying. There's Fin and Glade, the King Sword and Nanna, and incidentally Leaf supports Olwen. Also tons of staves.

7. Sol- Sol is probably the best skill in the game. 18% activation with thunder sword (which eyrios can take from Freddy and use quite well) Fred-Olwen=16 years

Omg only 18? Well that is 1/5 of the time, so every 5 kills, he gets his hp back. (40. 40 HP)

Sol is pretty overrated. Evade is actually useful in this game with the BS terrain bonuses and 1 RNG. Good tactics generally don't require anyone to die and with the staves and full-health Vulneraries I'm not seeing why this is so great. Eyrios could just pop a Vulnerary and kill everybody with PCC crits on the Enemy Ph-

Oh right, he has 0 PCC.

8. Sleuf has an auto A in staves. +1 staff spam.

Wow I sure don't already have a ton of staff guys. He's more useful than Miranda, sure, but so what.

9. Miranda is one of the worst units in the game. She can't use swords. She can't use staves. She can do chip damage before she is OHKO'd.

Bad as Miranda is, if actually raised she caps MAG and SPD right after promoting (and could, indeed, be promoted early), and she has an eternity to be scroll abused. If you're going by strict tiering she's pretty bad but if you want to make something of her she's basically the Est/Nino (who are also bad tierwise but perfectly serviceable if you choose to invest in them). But this isn't about Miranda, much like how no one going the A route gives a shit about Misha.

10.

She needs to die or not be recruited in order to get Eyrios, so, what you do is use her up until 16a, have her suicide there while taking out the brigand around Eyrios' troupe, then, you get Eyrios for longer than Olwen.

That is the best thing to do. Once her daimthunder is gone, she is worthless.

And if you happen to get lucky enough to steal the second one? That's a lotta Daimthunder.

Her stats start negative. You have to baby her to get her to par, and by then eyrios shows up. Olwen, being promoted, levels slowly. Very slowly. She still only gets 1+ while her speed is -4.

People are gonna be like what, lv15ish by the time Olwen joins? Her stats are pretty average for that time. Sure, she's a prepromote and won't get promo bonuses when people start using Proofs, but if she's average when she joins she doesn't need to be "babied" from the start.

As to scrolls, we have Hezul, Baldo, Odo, Sety, Neir, Fala and Heim by about the time she joins. Hezul helps her with HP and her high LCK mitigates the negative. Baldo is just overall good with her high general growths. Sety hits HP but boosts SPD and MAG and Hezul would offset it. Fala's good overall. She doesn't even especially need Sety, which is a very popular scroll. She doesn't really need to be scroll-greedy by any means, but there are several that help.

There are also two Life Rings before her join chapter. I'd probably give them to Saphy or something for Fatigue purposes but if you're seriously using Olwen you could consider it. I will grant that Ambush and a Life Ring is pushing it for resource investment, but that's part of why Eyrios is so close.

Because it isn't his PCC. Cuz he ain't got none.

Not like you get anything on eyrios' route?

That misses the point. I was raising these things on the B route because conventional wisdom seems to be that we will always go A, which is retarded.

Sol>Luna.

Debatable. I have lots of ways to keep myself alive. I don't have a lot of ways to beat up the really tough enemies (unless they're armors, lolololol Hammers). Sol's probably still better but you do get Luna, so it isn't like you get nothing.

Sleuf>Shanam.

Unless you already have a goodly number of staff users and/or aren't Warp-skipping half the game. Half price can be nice for buying Killers, Proofs, stat boosters, or whatever. And you never actually have to use Shanam for anything but purchase bitch. He's Merlinus with a sword and a mullet.

You already have plenty of silence. You get more warp staves>Any staff. Plus a bucketload of thorons. You have a repair staff for pugi. use it.

Not needing to repair the Pugi means you can repair something else. It could be a Warp staff, but it doesn't have to be. It can be anything you like. You can never have too many Silences and they're not really worth repairing. Silences can effectively buy other staves if you silence the enemy staff user before they can fire one off. Thorons are really heavy and completely worthless to anyone but Olwen and Eyrios. Yes, even Sety can't use them (B Thunder, what up). And good luck getting A Thunder with Asvel, like he'd even want it. Homer, Linoan, and Sara have no prayer.

I think a lot of people just don't like Olwen.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Renall

[cheetah7071]

Eyrios' skills ARE unreliable. I don't care that prayer is 42%. I'm still not putting him in a situation where he needs a skill activation to survive. That's just begging for trouble.

[Robert]

Pt. 1

"Only way of killing." Yes, way to completely sandbag her. She can kill things without her personal weapon.

Thanks for the proof? She can't. Her durability is crap. Her strength is crap. She can't wield swords and damage anything with defense. 4 PCC OMG! Well her 24/4 isn't allowing her more than two hits before she dies. She levels slowly. 5 build? She relies entirely on daim thunder.

Seriously, listen to yourself. Eyrios's durability is better, but it's completely unfair to compare his bases to Olwen's like she's not going to level any.

Olwen is promoted. She levels REALLY slowly. She has a 50% hp growth. She has 24 (crap) base hp. Even with 80% growth, she is not getting more that 30 by the time eyrios shows, and that is with abuse. Many other characters would like the hezul scroll as well.

She has 10 base MAG and can use Thunder, Fire, or Wind at discretion. With her base 10 SPD, she has an AS of 5-9, which is certainly enough to double some things.

She can double armors and soldiers(!?) She deals 24 damage to most enemies? She can't ORKO without daim thunder. Yay chip damage that every other unit can do as well.

Promoted units don't gain hideously slow exp really, and there's lots of guys to kill in chapters like 14.

Eyrios's bases aren't even that impressive for his level. Sure, Olwen's aren't either, and they both have high growths, but comparing Eyrios to an equivalent-leveled Fergus - before scrolls, which Fergus has had lots of time to be able to use - he's pretty lousy. Having tomes is basically what saves him.

Oh and 0 PCC. Let's not all totally forget that shit.

They gain about 6 XP by killing unpromoted units, 15 for promoted.

2. They have the same EXACT growths. Except Eyrios has amazing bases.

40 hp. Thats insane. 40 hp alone means he isn't going down. 11 strength. (He can use any non-Prf sword. ie- silver, kill, master, hero, sleep, berserk, thunder) 9 mag. He is hitting res, has thoron, bolting, ect. 10 defense. Sure beats 4 defense.

3. He doesn't rely on criticals to kill. He can use an sword and has A in thunder, can use wind, hits res ect.

This is Eyrios vs. OLWEN. NOT FERGUS.

Or you can use other tomes, but that's clearly not your objective here.

She can't use other tomes! She deals 12 damage. Then the enemy deals 18 damage. Repeat. Olwen dies.

Guys Saphy is Bottom Tier because BALLISTAS ONE-SHOT HER ZOMG!

Whats the difference between saphy and olwen?

A. Olwen is a combat unit. She fights.

B. Saphy uses staves.

C. Saphy repairs. That is why is she top tier.

D. Olwen can't use staves. You get Sleuf from the Eyrios route. He has an A in staves!

[Robert]

Pt2.

Wow I sure don't already have a ton of staff guys. He's more useful than Miranda, sure, but so what.

Know how useful staves are in the last few chapters? So what? So thats means we want him more that that useless dunce.

Bad as Miranda is, if actually raised she caps MAG and SPD right after promoting (and could, indeed, be promoted early), and she has an eternity to be scroll abused. If you're going by strict tiering she's pretty bad but if you want to make something of her she's basically the Est/Nino (who are also bad tierwise but perfectly serviceable if you choose to invest in them). But this isn't about Miranda, much like how no one going the A route gives a shit about Misha.

Miranda is impossible to train. She is level 1 so late in the game. She can't kill anything or use staves. WORTHLESS. She is NOT getting a sacred promotion item either. Awful.

And if you happen to get lucky enough to steal the second one? That's a lotta Daimthunder.

No. Because-

A. You have to abuse lifis.

B. She gets 20 kills per tome. Not that much.

People are gonna be like what, lv15ish by the time Olwen joins? Her stats are pretty average for that time. Sure, she's a prepromote and won't get promo bonuses when people start using Proofs, but if she's average when she joins she doesn't need to be "babied" from the start.

As to scrolls, we have Hezul, Baldo, Odo, Sety, Neir, Fala and Heim by about the time she joins. Hezul helps her with HP and her high LCK mitigates the negative. Baldo is just overall good with her high general growths. Sety hits HP but boosts SPD and MAG and Hezul would offset it. Fala's good overall. She doesn't even especially need Sety, which is a very popular scroll. She doesn't really need to be scroll-greedy by any means, but there are several that help.

There are also two Life Rings before her join chapter. I'd probably give them to Saphy or something for Fatigue purposes but if you're seriously using Olwen you could consider it. I will grant that Ambush and a Life Ring is pushing it for resource investment, but that's part of why Eyrios is so close.

Because it isn't his PCC. Cuz he ain't got none.

Everyone wants sety. Everyone. for the 100000th time, she levels so slowly, even if she gets 1+ every level or so, it takes a long, long time for her to get anywhere.

EYRIOS DOESN"T NEED PCC! HE HAS AN A IN SWORDS AND THUNDER.

Debatable. I have lots of ways to keep myself alive. I don't have a lot of ways to beat up the really tough enemies (unless they're armors, lolololol Hammers). Sol's probably still better but you do get Luna, so it isn't like you get nothing.

Sol>>>>>>>Luna. Everyone knows that.

This game is about surviving enemies, not killing them. (someone smart said that, I forget who)

[Robert]

Pt 3.

Unless you already have a goodly number of staff users and/or aren't Warp-skipping half the game. Half price can be nice for buying Killers, Proofs, stat boosters, or whatever. And you never actually have to use Shanam for anything but purchase bitch. He's Merlinus with a sword and a mullet.

You get plenty of items from the game. And more warps for taking the Eyrios route.

Not needing to repair the Pugi means you can repair something else. It could be a Warp staff, but it doesn't have to be. It can be anything you like. You can never have too many Silences and they're not really worth repairing. Silences can effectively buy other staves if you silence the enemy staff user before they can fire one off. Thorons are really heavy and completely worthless to anyone but Olwen and Eyrios. Yes, even Sety can't use them (B Thunder, what up). And good luck getting A Thunder with Asvel, like he'd even want it. Homer, Linoan, and Sara have no prayer.

Pugi lasts alot longer than daim thunder.

A. Because it kills stuff in one shot.

B. It criticals alot.

C. Othin doesn't rely entirely on it.

You have more warps from the eyrios route. Silences are plentiful.

Eyrios' skills ARE unreliable. I don't care that prayer is 42%. I'm still not putting him in a situation where he needs a skill activation to survive. That's just begging for trouble.

42% is unreliable? Howabout 60%? Thats eyrios in a few levels. 1/5 of the enemies with sol? 1/5 of the time he gets his hp (40) back)40 hp? His durability is CRAZY.

[Don Draper]

I was going to respond to Renall's whole post, but saw this part:

Debatable. I have lots of ways to keep myself alive. I don't have a lot of ways to beat up the really tough enemies (unless they're armors, lolololol Hammers)

and stopped. Lots of ways to keep yourself alive and not a lot of ways to beat up the really tough enemies? In FE5 of all games? Enemies are lolstupidlyeasy to ORKO in this game, pretty much any character in the entire game can accomplish this, what with PCR, low enemy stats, etc. Killing enemies is a joke. But you have a lots of ways to keep yourself alive? Yeah right. Enemies are actually well equipped, so they're dealing a lot of damage to you, and then you have ballista, long range spells, etc. Its been said a million times, killing enemies isn't the hard part of FE5. Its surviving them. And a lol redundant overkill skill being arguable against the best defensive skill in the game? Yeah right.

And I lol'd at avoid "being useful" in this game with a 1 RN system.

Edited August 6, 2009 by IOS

[Rodykitty]

I'm probably going to get warned for mini-modding, but should this discussion continue in the FE5 tier list topic since it's pretty much a debate between two specific characters down to the very wire, while this topic is mostly questions and answers about FE5 in general?

[VincentASM]

I was just going to say that. I think that would be best as well.

Too often, it seems, people make a general help topic about a game they just started and suddenly character wars ensue (not saying that in a bad way).

[cheetah7071]

Eyrios' skills ARE unreliable. I don't care that prayer is 42%. I'm still not putting him in a situation where he needs a skill activation to survive. That's just begging for trouble.

42% is unreliable? Howabout 60%? Thats eyrios in a few levels. 1/5 of the enemies with sol? 1/5 of the time he gets his hp (40) back)40 hp? His durability is CRAZY.

I just want to make this last point before the debate ends. 60% prayer means nothing. That means that 40% of the time, he dies. Would you send a character who was 3HKOed against 3 enemies with 75% accuracy? No. And guess that, that person only has ~40% chance of death. Prayer is unreliable, Sol is unreliable. Prayer should never even be in a situation to activate, and Sol just means your staff user gets a little less exp.

[Robert]

Go to the Fe5 tier list topic for your demise.