Meta-Topic

[quanta]

So what do people here believe is the purpose and benefits of philosophical/political/ethical/etc. discussion?

I'd say there are multiple things. Off the top of my head

1.) It lets you see other points of view and ideas other than your own.

2.) It provides a place for ideas to be critically inspected in a way that is (hopefully) civil yet honest and straightforward.

3.) Depending on the topic, you may learn something.

4.) It's a good place to practice debating beliefs you hold personally without pissing off your family and friends, and the format of written response allows for longer contemplation before responding and prevents people from interrupting your thoughts and ideas (and you from interrupting others). On the other hand, you may feel braver about being a dick behind a computer screen, so maybe it balances out.

[Rehab]

Due to having no frame of reference of my own being a spoiled boondocks baby with little research done (as of yet), I like watching ____ informed discussion move along to jack the viewpoint that seems like the most infallible one at the moment try to start thinking critically and form my own opinions about things I haven't considered.

[Agro]

Pretty much for the reasons listed above. Getting people riled up is a by-product.

[Crystal Shards]

I like looking at other view points and discussing topics to find the best possible outcomes. I'm also an extremely huge nerd and like learning new things. The downside to debating--online and offline--is the amount of information most of the people I run into lack. I mean I don't know everything, nor have I even looked at everything, but it's frustrating when I've done a lot of research and some idiot comes in and says, "lol ur wrong cuz I sed so!11!" But when I don't know much on the topic I like to read through people's opinions and learn about the subject, if it's a good debate anyway.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I like looking at other view points and discussing topics to find the best possible outcomes. I'm also an extremely huge nerd and like learning new things. The downside to debating--online and offline--is the amount of information most of the people I run into lack. I mean I don't know everything, nor have I even looked at everything, but it's frustrating when I've done a lot of research and some idiot comes in and says, "lol ur wrong cuz I sed so!11!" But when I don't know much on the topic I like to read through people's opinions and learn about the subject, if it's a good debate anyway.

I find it more annoying when people blatantly spread misinformation or intentionally misleading information. Those who are blatantly wrong and claim no evidence may be annoying, but they have nowhere near the destructive power of one who is blatantly wrong but claims to be supported by evidence that is presented in a way as to convince the average person.

[Meteor]

The purpose of any debate is to persuade your opponent into agreement with your position. The benefit is that decisions and policies can be made which please all parties.

Even if no consensus is reached, there is plenty of knowledge and understanding to be gained by those willing to listen.

[Superbus]

I talk about subjects that are personal to me, or that I have a strong opinion on. But really, if I am going to have a pulpit, I already have my own web site, Twitter, etc.

I have much less fun posting my thoughts on a forum like this - especially one specifically like this, where - let's be frank - about five people can hang with me intellectually and talk with me on an even level - to be much less entertaining than it was in the past.

In short, if it's not Crystal, Quanta of the Bogie Brothers, there's not much I care to hear in retort to my opinions, as just the mere art of debating doesn't have the draw for me that it did five or so years ago.

That, and let's face it, this particular forum would be much more interesting with Blacken around.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Superbus

[-Cynthia-]

I find that I can learn a lot about issues from debating and/or reading discussions, from both the side I'm with or from the side I disagree with, or it helps me pick a stance if I'm undecided about an issue.

And Superbus, no offense but your post had to be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read in my life. I personally find it very insulting that you would classify 99% of SF as intellectually inferior, in my time here I felt like I've interacted with a lot of intellgent people from very different backgrounds, both in Serious Discussion and in other FE threads. You're really just upset this forum isn't FESS.

[California Mountain Snake]

... the Bogie Brothers...

>:}

And Superbus, no offense but your post had to be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read in my life. I personally find it very insulting that you would classify 99% of SF as intellectually inferior, in my time here I felt like I've interacted with a lot of intellgent people from very different backgrounds, both in Serious Discussion and in other FE threads. You're really just upset this forum isn't FESS.

...quod erat demonstrandum...

Edited August 20, 2009 by California Mountain Snake

[Crystal Shards]

I find that I can learn a lot about issues from debating and/or reading discussions, from both the side I'm with or from the side I disagree with, or it helps me pick a stance if I'm undecided about an issue.

And Superbus, no offense but your post had to be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read in my life. I personally find it very insulting that you would classify 99% of SF as intellectually inferior, in my time here I felt like I've interacted with a lot of intellgent people from very different backgrounds, both in Serious Discussion and in other FE threads. You're really just upset this forum isn't FESS.

No, he's not, and even if he was, you say that like it's a bad thing. But this isn't really the place for that shit storm of a bitch fest that usually gets brought up when someone bitches at Chris for not liking this place as much as FESS. But really, you should know what you're talking about before claiming things about other people. Moving on...

It is true that the quality of debates has gone down quite a bit. I find most of my peers aren't as interested in actually thinking about the issues and are more concerned with repeating sound bites and forcing others into extreme group labels (e.g. fascist) when said others disagree with their opinions, even if the opinions are actually quite moderate.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Crystal Shards

[-Cynthia-]

I guess I just find it really inapproapriate to insult nearly all the people who frequent a forum, it's simply too broad a generalization.

And even if Superbus considers himself intellectually superior to nearly everyone(which is awfully conceited), there's still a lot to be gained from interacting with those of "lesser" intelligence. I think it's ridiculous to sit up on some imaginary pedestal and deign that no one deemed inferior is even worth communicating with.

I'm fine if Superbus prefers what FESS was, he's entitled to his opinion, but I'm sick of seeing complaints about SF. If he thinks that almost everyone here is beneath him, he might as well just leave and communicate with the few people considered elite in another manner.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people on here that don't put a lot of thought into their posts, but for those that do this is just a giant slap in the face. People shouldn't be insulted who don't deserve it.

Reading over it again, I might just be overreacting to some slight exaggeration.

Edited August 20, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Fox]

I guess I just find it really inapproapriate to insult nearly all the people who frequent a forum, it's simply too broad a generalization.

And even if Superbus considers himself intellectually superior to nearly everyone(which is awfully conceited), there's still a lot to be gained from interacting with those of "lesser" intelligence. I think it's ridiculous to sit up on some imaginary pedestal and deign that no one deemed inferior is even worth communicating with.

I'm fine if Superbus prefers what FESS was, he's entitled to his opinion, but I'm sick of seeing complaints about SF. If he thinks that almost everyone here is beneath him, he might as well just leave and communicate with the few people considered elite in another manner.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people on here that don't put a lot of thought into their posts, but for those that do this is just a giant slap in the face. People shouldn't be insulted who don't deserve it.

Reading over it again, I might just be overreacting to some slight exaggeration.

I don't see where you're coming from on this, like, at all.

[Crystal Shards]

I guess I just find it really inapproapriate to insult nearly all the people who frequent a forum, it's simply too broad a generalization.

And even if Superbus considers himself intellectually superior to nearly everyone(which is awfully conceited), there's still a lot to be gained from interacting with those of "lesser" intelligence. I think it's ridiculous to sit up on some imaginary pedestal and deign that no one deemed inferior is even worth communicating with.

I'm fine if Superbus prefers what FESS was, he's entitled to his opinion, but I'm sick of seeing complaints about SF. If he thinks that almost everyone here is beneath him, he might as well just leave and communicate with the few people considered elite in another manner.

Anyway, I know there are a lot of people on here that don't put a lot of thought into their posts, but for those that do this is just a giant slap in the face. People shouldn't be insulted who don't deserve it.

Reading over it again, I might just be overreacting to some slight exaggeration.

You are reading far too much into it. He's saying that most of the people here aren't equipped mentally (be that maturity or intelligence) to have a proper debate. That's not an insult... It's pretty much a fact. Most forum-goers aren't. And sorry but Chris IS intellectually superior to most people on this forum, especially considering that the average age of this forum is probably 15 or 16, and he's almost 30 (and trust me from personal experience--he knows what he's talking about when he decides to speak up). He didn't say that SF was useless or that he hates it so much he wishes it would implode or the stupid people should die or some shit. He's talking about debate specifically. You're applying what you know and what you THINK you know about his opinion of this place and applying it where--quite frankly--it doesn't belong. We're talking about debates. If you want to take it personally, fine, but don't react based on what you think you know. So yes, you're overreacting, but there's no exaggeration here.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Crystal Shards

[-Cynthia-]

I would agree that most forum-goers here are immature, but I would argue that there are more than 5 mature members here on SF, which is different than what Superbus said, hence the exaggeration. His post just seemed to apply to a lot of people that it really shouldn't have, and I'm not in favor of unjust insults.

I also don't know much about the whole FESS(I haven't been here that long), so most of what I know was taken from the context of this particular post.

Edited August 20, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Superbus]

*sigh* Anytime someone doesn't like something I say or construes it as being negative, they say it's because I "miss" FESS. As if I sit here at night reading old forum threads from 2005, armed with a box of tissues and a pint of cookie dough ice cream. It's a convenient crutch to use for people, at least. "He parts his hair down the centre? IT'S BECAUSE HE MISSES FESS!!!" It's about as easy a crutch as calling someone with glasses "four-eyes", something I STILL hear to this day - usually when reffing hockey games - and I'm 29!

Look, if I "missed" FESS so badly, I wouldn't have ended it in the first place. Or I'd bring it back. I do have that option, you know! I own the site, the data, and everything associated with the name, and I'm sure it wouldn't be much work to get it going... work I have no interest in. You at least had a point when you called me pretentious.

Here's my ultimate point that you missed, though: it doesn't really matter to me if this place is loaded with closet intellectuals. I don't really "debate" to talk to them. I post in threads to state my opinion if I have one that I don't want to turn into an article that I can put on my CV, but other than that, I only really read Quanta and a few others because they're the people I know and respect. To hear what anyone else has to say doesn't excite me, because I've noted that most people don't have a clue of what they're talking about. They can't know what they're talking about, because they're teenagers, and engaging in a debate with most people like this is simply too time consuming to hold my interest. So this isn't a FESS issue, as this was how I felt on FESS, too. Therefore, it's not really an SF thing as much as it is a fandom thing... a fandom I hang around basically for a few of my friends and favourite acquaintances. MY error was not communicating that point properly.

tl;dr summary: I came for the fandom, stayed for about six to eight friends.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Superbus

[-Cynthia-]

Hmm, all right then, sorry for misunderstanding. As long as you aren't saying that everyone outside your "fandom" is a moron, I'm not offended.

Edited August 20, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Aitherion]

Hmm, all right then, sorry for misunderstanding. As long as you aren't saying that everyone outside your "fandom" is a moron, I'm not offended.

...Even if he was saying that, everyone on SF is in the fandom by default anyway.