Paperblade Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh, Shadow's dog is here to derail the topic, telling me to take his word. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeatyClawz Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh God if you guys are gonna argue about this again please take it to another topic. I edited the first post to make it less annoying to find all the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Oh, Shadow's dog is here to derail the topic, telling me to take his word. Again. I'll take your total non-reply to be a concession of the points that I made above, and an admission that you still can't figure out 2-3. And just because you deserve it, here's the editted-for-spelling version of the strat that I posted waaaay back in September of 2008. It does not have coordinates, but it's not hard to figure them out considering that the strategy is essentially finished on Turn 2: Sothe/Micaiah/BK vs. Hard Mode 3-6: Turn 1: Micaiah moves, Directs NPCs, waits. Sothe moves, equips Beastkiller, rescues Micaiah. Turn 2: Enemies ignore Sothe and kill NPCs. NPCs block the north tiger. Sothe moves into thicket, unequips weapon. Turn 3 - 5: Sothe yawns at the cats who deal less than 20 damage combined even when they both hit him. Turn 6: BK arrives, kills one laguz. 7 more die during Enemy Phase. 38 to go. Turn 7: BK kills another laguz. 10 more perish during Enemy Phase. 27 to go. Turn 8: BK kills another laguz (targetting ones without gauge). 3 more due during EP, not many laguz even on the screen anymore. Sothe still hasn't even used a vulnerary yet. 23 to go. Turn 9: BK kills another. One dies during EP. More are finally coming through the water. 21 to go. Turn 10: BK slaughters a tiger. Sothe pops first vulnerary. 9 perish during Enemy Phase. 11 to go. Turn 11: Sothe pops a torch so that I can see. BK kills something else. Laguz are all swimming, no deaths. 10 left. Turn 12: Sothe gets bored, kills something. BK kills something. 5 die during Enemy Phase. Turn 13: Sothe kills, BK kills. Only two die during Enemy Phase. Damn, I shouldn't have had Sothe attack. One left. Turn 14: Sothe kills a cat he wounded on Enemy Phase. Chapter clear. Clear bonus: 2250 Friendly Army fought: 55 No turn bonus, because there isn't one. Wow look at that, I got max BEXP. EDIT: no worries Oval, I believe that I've made my point sufficiently. Carry on etc. Edited November 10, 2009 by Interceptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Update bump. For those out there who need to be hand-held through the entire process, I loaded up my 3-6 HM save and got the specific coordinates for you. This should still work on Normal Mode, since enemies are just higher level in HM. Note that my coordinates use the same system as Vincent's Hidden Treasure page, for consistency. Turn 1: - Move Micaiah to (8,3). This square is bracketed by two NPC Halberdiers. - Direct the NPCs, using Target to put the dot at (5, 5). This square is 2 south of a Tiger. - Move Sothe to (8,4). This square is one above Micaiah, in a thicket. Equip Beastkiller and Rescue Micaiah. - During Ally Phase, the yellow units make a cross. - During Enemy Phase, the Bishop gets killed and Sniper/Halberdier both get wounded. Turn 2: - Move Sothe to (8, 6). This is two north of his current position, and puts him in a thicket bordered by two trees. He only has two enemy facings now. You're done! Just unequip his knife, spam End Turn, and wait for the BK to come clean house. Sothe will get bracketed by two cats, and they are unable to do more than one Vulnerary's worth of damage in a single turn, plus cannot crit, so Sothe will never die. Clever players can end this chapter on Turn 13 with skillful use of the BK and Sothe w/Beastkiller. I'm thinking of mirroring your play-through unofficially, AdjectiveNoun, so make sure that you pick a good team for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Great, now I have to pick Fiona and Astrid out of spite. Edit: Although that won't be as epic as Sigurd_Koopa's second pick intentionally being Meg. Edited November 11, 2009 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) About the Ilyana transferring items thing: She can still transfer items if you don't allow her to be deployed in 1-E. Just stock her up in the base. What you miss out on being able to send to the GMs: any weapons your DB members are using but won't need in part 3 due to special weapons they get in 3-6 or whatever Speedwing Reaper Card Unlock Parity Coin Chest Key Meteor/Elfire (whichever Sothe steals from that particular mage, if he steals from that mage) The speedwing is a potential advantage for whomever picks Ilyana if you don't let her be deployed in 1-E, and if Ed or Leo or Nolan or Jill are chosen and get a steel forge in 1-E that they may not need in part 3 then that is something that can be effectively a free item for the GMs, but in all it isn't a huge enough advantage to not let them have it. I mean, it is a benefit to having Ilyana, but it isn't game-breaking. I'd say the same for 2-E. Neph/Brom/etc can have items to transfer to the GMs, they just can't be deployed in 2-E. So being able to bring over the energy drop and nullify is an advantage for having one of the 6 units on the team that appears by 3-4. But they can still carry other stuff even if they aren't deployed in 2-E, so it isn't an overwhelming advantage. (Speedwing can be brought over if a unit KOs the speedwing halb in 2-3 while they have 7 items. It goes to the convoy and can be placed on Neph or whomever in the base of 2-E.) And draco can only be picked up if you have Heather anyway, and then she can carry stuff like it and the energy drop anyway. Of course, even with Heather you'd have to have Leanne, too. And take a penalty for using Elincia and have one of Marcia/Haar/Nealuchi on your team, since you need two flyers to get it easily. Either that or somehow push through the generals. Also if someone has Haar/Lethe/Mordecai on their team then you can stock Jill or Zihark in the 3-6 base even if they aren't on your squad and you can recruit in 3-7 to get stuff. Or Heather can steal from them if Heather is on the team. (And I don't understand why it should be necessary for Interceptor to explain a strategy that should be simple enough to figure out. The key details are right there in the name of the strategy: Saviour Sothe. He picks up Micaiah. Okay, now he needs to remain alive. Well, if you are familiar with the map it is easy to see how you can get him to have only two facings. All he has to do is self heal. On NM he just needs a vulnerary if he gets 2 cats. Concoction with two tigers. Alternate with one tiger and one cat. On HM it would help if it is those cats, and he may need a concoction once or twice even so. It might take a couple of tries to make sure the cats block him in instead of two tigers (which matters on HM), but that doesn't mean the strategy itself fails if you meet tigers the first try. Of course, with co-ordinate instructions that shouldn't happen.) Edited November 11, 2009 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Man, now we just need Dondon and smash and the topic can be completely derailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 *says something* *expects to get trolled by five different people* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 smash arent you taking this int/dondon troll me too hard thing a bit too far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Man, now we just need Dondon and smash and the topic can be completely derailed. Over half my post was on topic. I'm proud of myself for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Dammit. Sorry Oval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I know I'm not in this, but imo it would be silly not to allow it. It would be like not allowing everyone who doesn't have Laura to have her Arrive in 1-2, or to get Ranulf to the top in 3-4, or to have Sanaki bless a tome in 4-E-3. If it's something that a unit doesn't normally get credit for it should probably be allowed, since those are the things that generally don't constitute "using" the unit in question. Laura is forced in 1-2, Ranulf is forced in 3-4, and Sanaki's thing is done outside of the chapter. Ilyana is not forced in 1-E. So I suggest letting them grab items and carry them over, but they (Ilyana, Neph, etc) just can't be deployed (when they aren't forced), so no extra speedwing for the GMs (among other effects). (see PB, back on topic!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeatyClawz Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Dammit. Sorry Oval. Eh I guess it was partially my fault for mention Int. Oh well. I know I'm not in this, but imo it would be silly not to allow it. It would be like not allowing everyone who doesn't have Laura to have her Arrive in 1-2, or to get Ranulf to the top in 3-4, or to have Sanaki bless a tome in 4-E-3. If it's something that a unit doesn't normally get credit for it should probably be allowed, since those are the things that generally don't constitute "using" the unit in question. Laura is forced in 1-2, Ranulf is forced in 3-4, and Sanaki's thing is done outside of the chapter. Ilyana is not forced in 1-E. So I suggest letting them grab items and carry them over, but they (Ilyana, Neph, etc) just can't be deployed (when they aren't forced), so no extra speedwing for the GMs (among other effects). (see PB, back on topic!) This is actually what I was going for. Okay changing that rule because I can. They can be used to transfer items, but they can't be deployed(other than when they're forced). Also just to confirm Sanaki can bless a tome in 4E-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Now, just to clarify, Ike/Micaiah/Sothe, and herons are all assumed and allowed to be used by everybody, but ONLY those units, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Since the herons are on the list of units still up, that'd mean only Ike/Sothe/Miccy Sue are freebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Since the herons are on the list of units still up, that'd mean only Ike/Sothe/Miccy Sue are freebies. hmmmmm I thought it was mentioned somewhere, but maybe I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Well, we have 59 left in the pool, with 60 picks left, with the difference of one being accounted for by the double pick. I think herons were freebies in the GameFAQs drafts, since they had different combinations of people and units and they had no double pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Did you remember to leave out teh burger king,since he's free game for all?As for Herons,I dunno,it would be nice to not have to scramble for one,but it would leave more strategy in this if they had to be claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMeatyClawz Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Did you remember to leave out teh burger king,since he's free game for all? As for Herons,I dunno,it would be nice to not have to scramble for one,but it would leave more strategy in this if they had to be claimed. He's only fair game for 1-9 and 3-6, so those chapters don't add 20+ turns to the turncount. The person who picked him was supposed to get him(1-E) and Lehran because one of the requirements to getting the old guy is deploying the BK to 1-E. Because of this I was supposed to combine them both into one pick, but I didn't do that or account for the one less character in any lists. I'm thinking we leave it like this and just let whoever picks Lehran deploy the BK in 1-E, but he can't fight. This will probably mean that Lehran will likely go last which means that king_soren and WoMC will be stuck with him, but Haar and Volug both more than make up for it. So no changes to the list at all, and we continue as scheduled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Eh I guess it was partially my fault for mention Int. Oh well. It's not your fault that Paperblade can't help running his mouth. Easy Button clear of 3-6 is entirely on-topic, some people may need to employ it. You say no Battle Save abuse, does that mean you're disallowing lamesauce 5-turn clears of 1-P, etc, stuff that requires exceptional luck? Edited November 11, 2009 by Interceptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 ok,that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Eh I guess it was partially my fault for mention Int. Oh well. It's not your fault that Paperblade can't help running his mouth. Easy Button clear of 3-6 is entirely on-topic, some people may need to employ it. You say no Battle Save abuse, does that mean you're disallowing lamesauce 5-turn clears of 1-P, etc, stuff that requires exceptional luck? Or, say, Luna-ing Ike in 3-13 with Taur on turn 2 and restarting (from turn 1 because no BSA allowed) the map until it works? I think maybe "no resets" should be added, though if you screw up honestly (ie: not risking death on a strategy that reduces turn count the 1 out of 10 times it actually works and just resetting until it does) it would kind of suck to permanently lose one of your few characters. May not even be able to actually finish the game. Edited November 11, 2009 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Eh I guess it was partially my fault for mention Int. Oh well. It's not your fault that I can't help running my mouth. Easy Button clear of 3-6 is entirely on-topic, some people may need to employ it. You say no Battle Save abuse, does that mean you're disallowing lamesauce 5-turn clears of 1-P, etc, stuff that requires exceptional luck? Fix'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Eh I guess it was partially my fault for mention Int. Oh well. It's not your fault that I can't help running my mouth. Easy Button clear of 3-6 is entirely on-topic, some people may need to employ it. You say no Battle Save abuse, does that mean you're disallowing lamesauce 5-turn clears of 1-P, etc, stuff that requires exceptional luck? Fix'd. C'mon guys,if you have to do this,not here ok?On a related note,not having to BS 1-P is already making Eddie seem like a pretty good choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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