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H5 playthough log, pseudo-efficient run


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Draco shield on Barts is definitely a good idea. With it, I'm pretty sure he'll be at least 4RKO'd by every Lance user for the rest of the game that doesn't have a brave (and he'll be 4RKO'd by some of those with just a bit more HP).

Icon seems like a good idea on Caeda as well. Go with the Talisman on her too.

Drop on Cain or Athena. On Cain to counter him being a bit strength screwed, or Athena to make double attacking that much more potent.

Icon on whoever you want. Maybe Draug to avoid the odd crit.

Any updated impressions on characters?

Edited by IOS
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I'm probably going to promote Caeda with my next Seal, mostly because she's going to be wasting EXP soon and she'll benefit from the +STR and uncapped SPD of a promo.

She already is. 15/0 or above units don't gain more EXP than --/1 units, and they won't reach 20/20, so they might as well promote ASAP.

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Any updated impressions on characters?

My current impressions:

  • Marth: waste of space. He's a 9MV unit (gave him the Boots) that just walks towards the Seize tile and occasionally visits a village. The only combat he sees are situations where it's possible to have him face a Cav or Armor on Enemy Phase that won't OHKO him, in which case I'll have him weaken with a Rapier.
  • Caeda: I like Caeda for what's she good for, which is Wing Spear utility, flying, and random javelin/Silver potshots. I wish she was less STR screwed, I think if I had an average Caeda she'd be better in this play-through (for example, if she wasn't STR-screwed she could have ORKO'ed a lot of the Ch. 15 mages with javelins). Next time, I will forge an extra +1 on her Wing Spear to counter-act the possibility of screwage. She's whiffing OHKOs on Cavs now (though not Horsemen).
  • Cain: he is solid now that he's doubling consistently. His STR is a problem, but he just got his Lance rank to B so I've given him Silver Lances to play with. Add that to the Killer Lance that he basically has sole claim to in this army, and Ridersbanes, and he's doing pretty OK.
  • Draug: he is one of my best attackers. It is really nice to have both Axes and Bows, since the bows pluck fliers out of the sky (and have near-100% listed HIT on normal enemies) and the Axes give him a good Enemy Phase and compensate somewhat for his low STR. Draug's DEF is balls, but his HP is so high that he's barely 3HKO'ed by almost everything (in Ch. 16 I had him take attacks from two dracos), so that makes him useful on Enemy Phase. I basically bought Recover staves solely for Draug.
  • Barst: still a ridiculous unit, it's easy to see why he's Skittles tier. The fact that he's STR-blessed is not much of a factor, I think, since someone who can ORKO a Lance Cav with a Steel Sword obviously has muscles to spare. I could easily have him rocking Silvers to make up the difference. He's also quite satisfactory on defense. Taste the rainbow.
  • Merric: very useful unit. He has trouble ORKO'ing unless he uses Excalibur, but I have so many charges left on that spell (plus I have Thoron and Bolg now) that it's generally not an issue. Even when he doesn't kill, he leaves enemies near death since he doubles almost everything. Merric is nice as a frontline healer, since I don't have to worry about exposing him to an attack, due to his massive HP. Not taking counters is nice, and so is hitting RES.
  • Sedgar: still ridiculous. Now he takes no damage from anything unless it's magic-based or an Armorslayer. I continue to use him for what he's best at: the vanguard unit when I want to take on a swarm. He hurts everyone a little bit and the rest of my army takes the kills on Player Phase. He has enough SPD to not get doubled now, but that hardly makes any difference since 2x0 hurts as much as 1x0. Offensively, he can double Generals (useful) and severely injure fliers (also useful). He's not at Silver Bows yet, but well on his way.
  • Athena: disappointing. Athena is still a lot like FE10 Eddie, aka gets 2HKO'ed, can't dodge for crap, runs into things she can't double, and doesn't often ORKO without a crit. Since she takes counters from almost everything, she's like a musket: fire, reload (aka heal). Athena is somewhat useful for taking out Archers/Horsemen since she doesn't eat counters on them. I was stingy with Killing Edges in this game; if I use Athena again I'd make them her primary weapon right from the start.
  • Lena: shitty stats, but does her job. MAG-blessed, but doesn't even make a difference in her performance. If I didn't need her for Hammerne, I'd have replaced her with someone who could take a hit, like Wendell or something.
  • Beck: I like ballistas. Arrowspate, Hoistflamme, and Thunderbolt are useful. He's had some good moments so far, and pairs well with units like Athena and Caeda, to kill an enemy with a counter-free OHKO at melee range. He might have been a good candidate for the Boots, too, though I think Warp will suffice otherwise.

She already is. 15/0 or above units don't gain more EXP than --/1 units, and they won't reach 20/20, so they might as well promote ASAP.

True, but the loss of hitting the first tier level 20 ceiling is what I was referring to, and that's a lot worse than the shavings you lose from being > level 15 in EXP calculations when compared to a freshly promoted unit. It's not as if I'm leveling people high into tier 1 on purpose, it's just a result of not having enough Seals. If I could buy them, I'd promote Caeda, Athena, Cain, and Lena right now. So absent that, I'm just trying to minimize the bleeding.

Edited by Interceptor
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Int, as long as you're using Marth as a seizebot, do you really think the Boots are helping him reach the throne any faster? I say this because oftentimes he can't use his full mov out of fear of getting raepd, so the boots are terribly wasted on him from my POV.

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Int, as long as you're using Marth as a seizebot, do you really think the Boots are helping him reach the throne any faster? I say this because oftentimes he can't use his full mov out of fear of getting raepd, so the boots are terribly wasted on him from my POV.

It helps somewhat. The issue with Marth is that I can't change his deployment position to put him in a more favorable spot, I have to deal with whatever I am given. AKA, I compensate for Sedgar's MV by putting him as far forward as I am able, but I can't do that with Marth. So, when Marth starts like 5-6 squares or more behind the most forward position, sometimes it takes him 5-6 turns (or never) just to catch up to the vanguard. It helps that he can cross rivers, but I don't always have that option. The other thing is that it gives me some flexibility in his position: I have three examples for you.

First one is Chapter 14: I Warped Marth to the northwest village to grab Thoron, and then had him skate down the west side through the forest. With 9MV, he could largely stay out of range of the Longbow archers (he does take one attack if you rush, though), and does not need to be accompanied. It puts him in position to grab the two Pegs, not long after he clears free of the woods.

Second one is Chapter 15: with 9 MV, he can just brute-force his way directly north of his starting position: over the river, through the desert. It keeps him completely out of harm's way, and he arrives at the Seize square fresh and able to take a hit from the long-range magic. I don't have him going east with the rest of my army, clogging up valuable space.

And then in Chapter 16: I kept Marth with the main forces, and swung around east towards the Seize spot. Having 9MV was handy, since it allowed him to catch up quickly. Once I broke the Cavalier/Horseman/General blockade past the jail (where Marth helped a little, by doing 2x10 on a General during Enemy Phase), I blasted him north towards Seize, to end the chapter just as I killed the boss. I haven't done Ch. 17 yet, but perhaps the +MV will let him do some damage in the chest room with the Fire Emblem?

Anyway, I wouldn't say he's Boots Doritos, but he's not wasting them either, in my experience. The only units that I'd concede might be better with the Boots would be 6MV units (Merric, Sedgar, mebbe Lena) or perhaps the ballista, since they have some measurable boosts. Everyone else either already moves fast enough (Cain, Caeda, Barst) or would just get raped if they moved too far ahead (Draug, Athena). I basically gave the Boots to Marth because I'm trying to do quick Seizes without Warp-scumming.

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Ahh, I made a mistake in one of my write-ups. I killed Jake in Ch. 14, he distracted the longbows long enough for Marth to slip by. I'll edit that in.

Answer to the second part of your question, though, is that I don't want to have more people than I intend to use, because this gives me a supply of throwaway generics. Suiciding units is a powerful strategy, I have found, so I like the flexibility to reclass a generic into whatever I need at the time. This came in particularly handy in Ch. 15. Can't do that with Jake, so I got rid of him ASAP.

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Chapter 17

This chapter had me banging my head against a wall for a while. Not because it's inherently tough, but because I'm trying to force myself to play efficiently, and it's difficult when there's a chest room with 5+ unopened chests in it and the Seize tile only 3 turns away from Marth. A lazy strategy will have Marth standing on the Seize tile, picking his nose while he waits for Julian to finish looting the place.

For this chapter, I promoted Caeda, and reclassed her into a Paladin. I also forged some +mt on Athena's Wyrmslayer. Icon and Talisman went to Caeda, Draco went to Barst. Sitting on the Drop and Speedwing for now.

I wanted to work on Caeda as a Dracoknight and start on her Axe rank, but I needed a class that wouldn't get one-shotted by the Sniper. My first turn I Warped Sedgar into the treasure room and had him pick a fight with a Sniper, equipped Merric with Thoron and had him open the boss door, had Caeda run south of the green Fortify bishop and pop a Pure Water, and had Beck take a shot as aforementioned Bishop. At the end of Enemy Phase, Sedgar has dealt a lot of damage (and killed a mage) in the chest room, Merric has wiped an Armor and a Mage on the other side of the door, and Caeda has killed the Fortify Bishop and severely wounded the VIP Bishop. Meanwhile, Athena/Marth get into position near Merric, and the rest of my army piles northwest to assist Sedgar.

Long story short, I warp Julian into the chest room once it's safe, Athena takes out the boss, Caeda has some fun blicking Paladin reinforcements, and I even manage to take one of those ridiculous (26 AS, wtf) Manaketes. Marth only spends a couple turns twiddling his thumbs.

Casualties: None.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.51 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   2.51 37 10 1  19 20 22 11 8
Cain   19.45 33 12 0  13 16 9  12 0
Draug   4.52 41 15 0  9  19 4  7  1
Barst   6.70 39 20 1  20 20 12 16 3
Merric  6.33 38 3  9  12 19 17 7  15
Sedgar 15.20 54 19 1  17 11 6  30 2
Athena 19.69 31 12 0  14 17 11 9  0

Lena   20.00 18 0  10 10 12 20 3  16
Beck    3.82 22 7  0  5  4  5  15 0

I only have one Seal now, so either Cain or Athena is getting benched until Chapter 18. And by benched, I mean getting to level 20 as a Curate/Cleric. Leaning towards benching Cain, for no other reason than that I am tired of Athena sucking, and on the 17x map I see some things Cain can't double, plus a Manakete, plus Athena can maybe OHKO mages.

Edited by Interceptor
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I think you might of forgot to include the Draco in Barst's stats.

I think Drop on Caeda, and Speedwing on Cain. Also, did you use Xane in this chapter to help you with chests?

Also, I realized that I told you to use the Icon on Caeda, when I meant Draug. Whoops.

Edited by IOS
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Damn, you're right, that was sloppy. I'll edit that in.

I agree with your stat-ups, especially seeing as I have two Wings now. I will perhaps have Athena and Cain share. I did use Xane for chests, which saved me time and some keys.

EDIT: Icon on Draug would have been good, but Icon on Caeda has a purpose, too. It's for possible Devil Axe usage when she's a Draco and has D Axes. I figure that since she'll max LCK around --/12, the chance to suicide will be low enough to chance around save points, and 17mt is mini-Hauteclere without needing A-rank.

Edited by Interceptor
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Chapter 17x

I started by reclassing Sedgar to Horseman. He's capped DEF as a General now, and I want to raise it a bit more, plus he needs the mobility in this chapter. Caeda got stuffed full of resources: Energy Drop, Arms Scroll, and a Dracoshield. I gave her the Draco since I noticed she's somewhat tanky as a Dracoknight at this point. She's also sporting the Devil Axe. Athena I promoted to Swordmaster and tossed one of my Speedwings.

My strategy was straightforward: Caeda basically solos the northeast, with a little help from Cain at the beginning, backed up by Julian, Lena, and Beck at long range. Everyone else swarms counter-clockwise around the level, pwning faces and kicking doors open. I morphed Xane into Julian when it was convenient, and used him to open the NW door and chest. Cain had a key for the SW door. The stomp ended with Lena Warping Julian down for the last chest, and Marth Seizing.

Casualties: Etzel.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.83 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   5.03 36 14 1  20 23 24 16 5
Cain   19.59 33 12 0  13 16 9  12 0
Draug   6.06 42 16 0  10 21 5  7  1
Barst   8.01 39 21 1  21 21 13 16 3
Merric  7.75 39 3  9  13 19 17 7  15
Sedgar 15.78 46 17 1  20 15 6  21 2
Athena  2.71 37 14 1  19 21 11 12 3

Lena   20.00 18 0  10 10 12 20 3  16
Beck    5.23 23 7  0  6  5  5  15 0

Caeda is a little bit ridiculous now. She doesn't die easily, and has as much mt with the Devil Axe as Draug and his Silver Bow, or Barst and his Hand Axe. In all of my dry runs plus the final on this level, she never hit herself with it. I still have one Speedwing banked, which will probably go to Cain once I get a promo item for him.

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Well, it didn't have many chances to proc. I only used it around save points or safe situations (you might notice that Caeda 3HKOs herself, so she can generally take a swipe + a counter anyway), and in the final run I only had occasion to use it once. The rest of her combat was with Hand Axes, Silver Lance, forged Wing Spear, and plain Wing Spear, depending on the situation.

I guess the only way to test it would be the old-fashioned way: having her swing at a bunch of things repeatedly, and tracking how many times it connects vs. how many times she hits herself.

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I guess the only way to test it would be the old-fashioned way: having her swing at a bunch of things repeatedly, and tracking how many times it connects vs. how many times she hits herself.

Or use Clock Abuse to forcibly stick a specific RN into there. I don't know if this method is any more efficient than yours, what with figuring out which RN affects the Devil weapons and finding certain times, but damn would it be more interesting.

Edited by 4in1
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That'd take a really long time, methinks. If the formula from past games holds, Caeda's chance to hit herself with the Devil Axe is only 7%. I suppose it might be easier with another unit, but in order to get anywhere at all I'd have to have a large set of approximately-known numbers to begin with, and also I'd need to have some idea of which RN the Devil chance used.

That's a bit daunting.

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Chapter 18

Reclassed Caeda into a Paladin, and forged some +mt/HIT onto a Poleax (for Draug). I'm am trying to bump up Caeda's STR a little bit, and get her at least +1 SPD so that she's suitable as a 30 SPD Swordmaster if the need arises.

This chapter was a straight-up stomp from start to Seize. There's nothing much to report except that Barst refused to be caged, getting multiple crits with Sandbag his Iron Sword, and ruining my strategy of weakening things on Enemy Phase for others to kill. Also it ended up killing him, since he took 4 attacks in a row with WTD. Reload.

Performance in this chapter was otherwise evenly spread around. Athena was a surprise for once, getting clutch crits on Horsemen several times with her KE. Recruited Est, unfortunately couldn't kill her because the boss was already dead at this point.

Casualties: None.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.96 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   5.78 38 13 1  20 23 24 14 8
Cain   20.00 34 12 0  14 16 10 12 0
Draug   7.33 43 17 0  10 21 5  7  1
Barst   9.43 40 22 1  22 22 14 16 3
Merric  8.53 39 3  10 13 20 18 7  15
Sedgar 16.12 48 18 1  21 16 7  22 2
Athena  3.68 38 15 1  19 22 11 12 3

Lena   20.00 18 0  10 10 12 20 3  16
Beck    5.47 23 7  0  6  5  5  15 0

Cain is obviously going to take the promo item and use it immediately. Mercurius will go to Athena, naturally.

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Chapter 19

Cain promoted to Paladin, also gave him a Speedwing.

This chapter was breezy. Caeda > everything here, but I held her back a little bit since I had to train my other units. Athena did pretty well on the Mercs, since she doubled and ORKO'ed for the most part. I handled the multiple goodies in here by having Xane imitate Julian again, and keeping Marth behind for chest duty. Lena Warped him for the Seize after I recruited Tiki.

Casualties: None.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.96 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   6.53 39 13 1  21 24 25 15 8
Cain    3.07 39 15 1  18 20 11 13 0
Draug   7.94 43 17 0  10 21 5  7  1
Barst   9.57 40 22 1  22 22 14 16 3
Merric  9.22 40 3  10 14 20 19 7  16
Sedgar 16.45 48 18 1  21 16 7  22 2
Athena  4.53 39 16 1  19 22 11 13 3

Lena   20.00 18 0  10 10 12 20 3  16
Beck    5.47 23 7  0  6  5  5  15 0

Caeda got her +SPD, and now as capped LCK as a Paladin, so back to Draco she goes.

Edited by Interceptor
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Chapter 20

Reclassed Sedgar into a Hero, Caeda into Dracoknight, promoted Lena into a Sage, forged +5 mt onto Beck's Thunderbolt, and hit Merric with a Spirit Dust.

This chapter was a little ridiculous with all of the Brave weapons. Fortunately with auto-doubling comes bad HIT and no 2-range, so the standard tactic of luring with Sedgar and mobbing with everyone else worked out well here. My general strategy was to have Beck assassinate a Ballistician every turn (I warped him on Turn 2 to kill the ones further away), send Marth/Lena down to Hammerne, knock the bridge down with Julian, and rush my army across it to Camus. Athena took care of the Thief.

Caeda was MVP again. She flew across the river with her 1/28 forged Wing Spear and a Star Sphere, thinning out the herd for everyone else. She's ORKO on everything except Ballistas and Camus, and did a real number on the Brave Sword Paladins (they either missed or hit for silly damage).

Chapter ended with Lena Warping Marth to Seize (I tried having him cross the mountains on foot, but it was going to take too long).

Casualties: Est, Lorenz.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.96 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   9.55 38 15 1  24 23 26 18 5
Cain    3.61 39 15 1  18 20 11 13 0
Draug   8.04 43 18 0  11 22 5  7  1
Barst   9.94 40 22 1  22 22 14 16 3
Merric  9.73 40 3  12 14 20 19 7  16
Sedgar 17.03 51 19 1  26 21 8  24 2
Athena  5.27 39 17 1  20 22 12 13 3

Lena    1.75 24 3  13 11 13 20 5  13
Beck    7.63 24 8  0  7  6  6  16 0

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Its too bad that you have so few Master Seals in this game. Lena could of promoted much earlier, and at least done some good by Aura bombing once she got B Tomes. Awe well.

I get 24 as your average level (which takes into account when each character promoted), so I guess that would be around 20/5 or 15/10. Pretty consistent with levels I usually assume when comparing characters in Chapter 20. Barst's level is pretty much high enough to round up to 10, but it wouldn't really make much of a difference in the averages.

I also kind of find it funny that Athena either ties or is superior to Cain in every single stat. Mono swords is pretty awful though.

Who's going to get Gradius? Cain or Caeda?

Edited by IOS
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I agree. The Master Seals are really poorly distributed. There's not enough in earlygame, and now I'm running into a crush of Seals that I can't even use on anyone. It would have been really nice to have an Aura user, as you said... I have Lena using Elfire, which is nice, but it would have been nice like 12 chapters ago.

Athena got a nice boost from Mercurius, but damn, that's way too long for a unit to actually get good. Also, her SPD is bad for a Swordmaster, I mean the only reason she can double Paladins is because I hit her with a Speedwing. This is really not acceptable performance from someone who's so hard to use in the first place.

Gradivus went to Cain. He deserves it, Caeda has been spending a lot of time at the resource trough. Now that Cain can actually double things, it means that he can ORKO at 1-2 range, which is key. Caeda's Wing spear hax has still (still!) not petered out, so she's fine with what she's got.

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Chapter 20x

I took one look at the treasures in this chapter and decided to skip them. I managed to open one chest with Julian, but I did not bother with any of the others, since Marth was at Seize by that point.

This chapter was just a simple matter of splitting my army into two teams, and sending them their separate ways. I intentionally had Cain face a decent amount of action so that he can catch up a little bit. I also finally got Sedgar to D Axes (something I should have taken care of sooner, but c'est la vie).

Lena actually got two kills (!!!) in this chapter.

Casualties: None.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.96 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda   9.97 38 15 1  24 23 26 18 5
Cain    5.47 41 17 1  18 21 12 14 6
Draug   8.97 43 18 0  11 22 5  7  1
Barst  10.50 41 22 1  23 22 14 16 3
Merric 10.31 41 3  13 14 20 20 7  17
Sedgar 17.77 51 19 1  26 21 8  24 2
Lena    2.47 24 3  13 12 14 20 5  14
Athena  6.60 40 17 1  20 23 12 14 3

Beck    7.63 24 8  0  7  6  6  16 0

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Chapter 21

Unfortunately for Cain, Caeda needed the Star sphere and Gradivus again.

This chapter is the first in a while where I've actually had to squeeze every last bit of offense out of my army. I didn't want to Warp-scum the chapter, so I sent the majority of my army directly up the middle, with Sedgar in the vanguard. A ton of Generals and Paladins descended on him, and because of the mobility concerns of the Paladins I had to kill as many people as possible on Player Phase, made difficult by the Fortify priests topping everyone back off. Merric is no longer able to reliably survive an assault, and Draug is only good for one volley at best, so this required some maneuvering. Also, I didn't have Caeda, since I sent her and a generic off to the east.

Long story short, Caeda successfully infiltrated the back lines, and took out several Dracos, a Paladin, and a Sage. The rest of my army was able to overcome the guys in the middle, and make their way up to the boss. Marth walked to the Seize spot, and got there before reinforcements came in. Fin.

Casualties: None.

Levels/stats of my units at chapter's end:

Unit   Lvl   HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS

Marth  13.96 28 9  0  7  13 18 9  0
Caeda  11.62 39 16 1  24 23 28 18 6
Cain    7.20 43 19 1  19 22 14 14 6
Draug   9.94 44 19 0  11 23 6  7  1
Barst  10.69 41 22 1  23 22 14 16 3
Merric 10.94 41 3  13 14 20 20 7  17
Sedgar 18.61 52 20 1  27 22 8  25 2
Lena    2.97 24 3  13 12 14 20 5  14
Athena  6.90 40 17 1  20 23 12 14 3

Beck    8.09 24 8  0  7  7  6  17 0

I hit the Secret Shop in this chapter, and scooped up a bunch of goodies. My current supply of stat boosters:

  • 3 Energy Drops
  • 3 Spirit Dusts
  • 4 Speedwings
  • 1 Seraph Robe

It looks like anyone who had any doubling problems is suddenly going to be OK. Ditto for people just missing a ORKO.

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So by beating the chapter before reinforcements came, do you mean beating the chapter by Turn 4? Thats pretty quick for not warp skipping. Are you planning on not warp skipping any chapters (with the exceptions perhaps being Chapters 24 and 25?)

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I beat it on Turn 5, actually. The vast majority of enemy units were dead on Turn 4 (all that was left to kill on #5 were a Sage, Bishop, and the boss), but no reinforcements showed up on Turn 4 Enemy Phase despite what was listed on Serenes. I could have gone faster in theory, but I basically would have needed tons of people who could ORKO and avoid damage in the process. That wasn't happening, especially not with Caeda gone. Even Draug couldn't OHKO Paladins with a forged Poleax. And unfortunately, Fortify/Physic is not enough to top people off (I'd need to use Recover), especially when I needed Merric's offense.

As for warp-skipping, the whole premise of this playthrough is based on not using Warp to short-circuit chapters. Where I've Warped Marth to Seize, it's mostly been to make up for diverting him elsewhere (like with Hammerne). I won't be dodging chapters if I can get away with reasonably clearing my way there the old fashioned way. I understand though that I may have to Warp my way through the last couple, those Manaketes look pretty badass.

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