The Envoy of the Beginning Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Erk/Pent > Nino lolno. Have you seen Nino's caps?! They're ridiculous. Nino is very hard to use (she needs to be babied and the result still doesn't pay off with her lol durability), unlike Erk and Pent who have much less trouble fighting (and Pent comes with an A-Rank in Staves, whereas Erk has more availability). Caps do not make or break a character (and on top of that, they're not likely to reach them anyways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Of course IS is sexist. Most countries' attitudes towards women seem to be men are over women. Men have been above women in the general public's eyes since who knows. It's inevitably going to show in video games too. EDIT: How are they racist? There's virtually no black people in Japan. There's virtually no Hispanics, either. I'd be surprised if there were even a good amount of Europeans that live there. Japan --for the most part-- doesn't contain a diversity in its peoples. It's only natural that they won't be included in their video games. Note: Hawkeye and Irene don't count. Edited December 10, 2009 by Santa Snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Rey León Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Erk and Pent maybe more useful, but Nino is still technically the best mage in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandedRogue Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 but in the NCP armies there are NO women, not even as mages or priests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiff Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The games are supposed to take place in the old days, where women weren't in armies. That's not sexist, that's just staying true to the source material. except for your own army, where females make up a third of the troops, at the very least. i doubt IS really makes a point of making female units bad (which is one of the reasons i think tier lists are the wrong way to go about this). it's probably part bad balancing, with a few stereotypical views thrown in that happen to work against women (like female class caps tending to trade STR and DEF for a few useless points of RES). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Erk and Pent maybe more useful, but Nino is still technically the best mage in the game. That makes no sense whatsoever. If you're more useful, you're better. There are no exceptions. Edited December 10, 2009 by Ninji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I dunno about DLV, but the only reason I did my girls run on FEDS was for shits, giggles, and fun, plus most of the female units in that game range from good to average to bad, so it qualifies as a good challenge run. But some females tend to be better depending on which FE. In FE10 they are more Res reliable, unless your name is Mia... That makes no sense whatsoever.If you're more useful, you're better. There are no exceptions. inb4effeciency But I have to agree with that, Pent is great, especially with his auto A support with Louise. Erk is great too, he doesn't get slowed down by an average Fire tome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 inb4effeciency It doesn't have anything to do with efficiency or tiers. If a character is more useful than another character, they're better. That's pretty much the definition of "usefulness". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Speaking of Pegasus knights in FE3 the enemy had male pegasus Knights. Why does the enemy army almost always go out of its way to avoid using female units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The games are supposed to take place in the old days, where women weren't in armies. That's not sexist, that's just staying true to the source material. except for your own army, where females make up a third of the troops, at the very least. The lord of the game is always seen as different, and I was talking about enemy armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The games are supposed to take place in the old days, where women weren't in armies. That's not sexist, that's just staying true to the source material. except for your own army, where females make up a third of the troops, at the very least. The lord of the game is always seen as different, and I was talking about enemy armies. Then why do the enemy armies always include female characters you can convince to join your side. In Akaneia there wasn't a single female villain that didn't switch over to your side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Rei Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 On the other hand, most games have Females on the high ranks. Brenya, Ursula, Selena, Sonia(to a certain extent), Hilda, Ishtar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I highly doubt that IS gives a flying fuck about our tiers. It seems CATS makes the most sense in this entire topic. See, IS probably didn't plan on the tiers. Heck, they were probably trying (but failing miserably) to make this game as balanced as possible. So they obviously didn't count for the tiers, so saying they're sexist because girls are mostly in lower tiers is a pretty silly thing to do IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I don't think anybody is being serious about it, kirsche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Well, the extent to prove that they are sexist leads me to think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) It is a JRPG, so I feel like this is not very surprising. lol at you people using tiers to determine that Intelligent Systems is sexist It could very well be that IS thinks the various female characters who are good if babied (for instance nino, who is considered pretty awful) are good characters on account of the fact that they turn out good if used. Also, the Est archetype units (Lilina, Fir, Sophia and Fa) are lower in the tiers and in initial usefulness but become very good units with a bit of training. Watching out for and training these characters also reintroduces a certain dimension of strategy that Fire Emblem games tend to lose after the first several chapters. There aren't very many male characters in this archetype, all I can think of for FE6 is Oujay and he fits the archetype almost as imperfectly as Wendy. I think that using these characters is generally looked upon as a mistake by those trying to get high ranks or low turncounts, since you often have to hand them a kill and then put a wall in front of them to keep them from getting attacked. But yes, it's very possible that IS thought these were good characters. At the same time, IS doesn't really have anything that rewards you for having the strongest and most leveled party (except maybe multi-player for SD and transfers to RD in POR) - for the most part, the strongest metric for how well you did the game provides is turncount, and these female units that can become good are very mediocre in helping you achieve better turncounts. Cormag > Syrene But Vanessa > cormag and Eirika!Tana is close to Eirika!Cormag. Any cavalier in the CRK in FE10> Astrid But Titania > any other cavalier in FE10. (And FE9 too I think?) Moar like men are superior because there are no such thing as female Berserkers and Berserkers fucking rule and you people know it, mirirte? I still don't understand these two very well. i doubt IS really makes a point of making female units bad (which is one of the reasons i think tier lists are the wrong way to go about this). it's probably part bad balancing, with a few stereotypical views thrown in that happen to work against women (like female class caps tending to trade STR and DEF for a few useless points of RES). But sometimes also for spd, which can actually be a good thing. (Aran's caps > Neph's caps for this reason IMO) Why does the enemy army almost always go out of its way to avoid using female units? Note the mostly terrifyingly ugly boss portraits (with the exception of the beautiful gheb) and you have your answer. They CAN'T get female units. Meanwhile the pimpmaster lords you control in FE games are great at getting "all the pretty girls". See, IS probably didn't plan on the tiers. Heck, they were probably trying (but failing miserably) to make this game as balanced as possible. So they obviously didn't count for the tiers, so saying they're sexist because girls are mostly in lower tiers is a pretty silly thing to do IMO. Well, there is a general tendency (as has been noted in this topic) for female units of a particular class to have lower bases and end up better after a long period of time. Perhaps IS didn't realize that those slightly better endpoints are, for the most part, not worth achieving when trying to minimize turncount. Edited December 10, 2009 by SeverIan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonEvil Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Also don't forget that Japanese has a Fetish with Girls being with the GOOD GUYS. LAWL Though the only time a girl was on the bad guy side was Amelia and she was awesome as whatever class you turned her into. =P Though General is the only great class for her. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm sure IS planned on some grouping system. You don't make a game that unbalanced and call it an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Women are superior because there are no such thing as a male Pegasus Knight and Peg Knights fucking rule and you people know it. Moar like men are superior because there are no such thing as female Berserkers and Berserkers fucking rule and you people know it, mirirte? Erk/Pent > Nino lolno. Have you seen Nino's caps?! They're ridiculous. What good will Nino's caps ever do? Erk and Pent maybe more useful, but Nino is still technically the best mage in the game. You just contradicted yourself horribly. Est archetype units (Lilina, Fir, Sophia and Fa) Wait a second. Fa's a Chiki. Also don't forget that Japanese has a Fetish with Girls being with the GOOD GUYS. LAWL Though the only time a girl was on the bad guy side was Amelia and she was awesome as whatever class you turned her into. =P Though General is the only great class for her. lol She's actually bottom tier. Also, let me direct your attention to Fir, Ilyana, even Chiki. Edited December 11, 2009 by Naglfar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 On the other hand, most games have Females on the high ranks. Brenya, Ursula, Selena, Sonia(to a certain extent), Hilda, Ishtar... There is a trend here. All of them (Except Sonia and Brunya) are terrible. And the only females I have ever seen that aren't bosses are healers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 And the only females I have ever seen that aren't bosses are healers. You've never seen generic enemy pegasus knights before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Major trend: Nearly all Ests are bottom Tier. And, excluding Pelleas and, of course, Est, are magic using females. A quick list: Est, Sofiya, L'arachel, Miranda, Nino, and Sara. EDIT: I haven't seen many enemy Peg Knights to begin with. Edited December 11, 2009 by Sedgar the Hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Nearly all Ests are bottom Tier. Um, no shit? I haven't seen many enemy Peg Knights to begin with. They're pretty damn common. :/ There is a trend here. All of them (Except Sonia and Brunya) are terrible. None of those bosses listed even comes close to being terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Note the mostly terrifyingly ugly boss portraits (with the exception of the beautiful gheb) and you have your answer. They CAN'T get female units. Meanwhile the pimpmaster lords you control in FE games are great at getting "all the pretty girls". But what is stopping them from recruiting ugly women. Its not as if the women in the army have to be in a relationship with their boss anyway. They're pretty damn common. Enemies prefer wyverns but I think every game has enemy pegasus knights at one point even if they're extremely rare. I was kinda hoping Begnion in Radiant Dawn would use mostly pegasi for their aerial forces but alas they switched to wyverns. Edited December 11, 2009 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Nearly all Ests are bottom Tier. Um, no shit? I haven't seen many enemy Peg Knights to begin with. They're pretty damn common. :/ There is a trend here. All of them (Except Sonia and Brunya) are terrible. None of those bosses listed even comes close to being terrible. 1. Well, it sounds good on paper; we just need to get an Est with acceptable base stats and a SLIGHTLY earlier joining time. Solvlem Probled. 2. I mean unique, unrecruitable Peg Knights. 3. Selena isn't terrible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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