Reclassing

[Nephinel]

The Reclass feature from Shadow Dragon, I mean?

I thought it was pretty interesting. It allowed a bit of creativity and strategy in handling your units. My only complaint was that it was kind of broad and unbalanced.

I would like to see the feature make a return in any future Fire Emblem games, but improved and more specialized, using these class sets instead of Male A/Male B/Female:

Class Set A:

-Cavalier

-Wyvern Knight

-Armor Knight

-Pegasus Knight (Female units only)

Class Set A (Promoted):

-Paladin

-Wyvern Lord

-General

-Falcon Knight (Female units only)

Class Set B:

-Mercenary

-Fighter

-Pirate

Class Set B (Promoted):

-Hero

-Warrior

-Berserker

Class Set C:

-Myrmidon

-Soldier

-Archer

Class Set C (Promoted):

-Swordmaster

-Halberdier

-Sniper

Class Set D:

-Mage

-Shaman

-Monk

-Priest

-Troubadour (Female units only)

Class Set D (Promoted):

-Sage

-Druid

-Bishop

-Valkyrie (Female units only)

[Luftwaffe]

so many female-exclusive classes? Anyway, i like Shadow Dragon's set A and set B. I think they should swap myrmidon with fighter and put a few females in class set B.

[Parrhesia]

Yeah, some kind of axeman (pirate!) in set A. Besides Wyvern Knights, of course. And yeah, we need B set females. I want Pirate!Est goddamn it.

[Emperor Hardin]

I don't think Est is muscular enough to be a a pirate.

[General Spoon]

Yeah, some kind of axeman (pirate!) in set A. Besides Wyvern Knights, of course. And yeah, we need B set females. I want Pirate!Est goddamn it.

This is a great reason to not allow female pirates.

[Parrhesia]

I don't think Est is muscular enough to be a a pirate.

Not an effective pirate. But a pirate nonetheless.

[Iced]

personally I hate the reclass feature it takes away all individuality of an already bland cast

[Parrhesia]

It would work better in a game with PoR/GBA supports.

With this, half the cast don't speak lines in the game.

[Iced]

no it takes away a units individuality.

[Parrhesia]

Only when there's nothing else to draw personality from.

Here's an example.

Tomas is 'some archer.'

Shinon is 'a racist, drunken, but skilled archer, with XXXXXX, who does XXXX etc.'

Supports and ..... y'know, HAVING LINES, gives personality, not just class.

[Nephinel]

personally I hate the reclass feature it takes away all individuality of an already bland cast

Never mind that it is completely optional and that it's not like the game is forcing you to use it. <_<

[Parrhesia]

When a character's individuality is what weapons they use, it's too late. Might's'well get some good stats out of it

[El Rey León]

I'm torn on reclassing. One one had it brought great strategic fun in Shadow Dragon, but on the other hand, it only works on characters devoid of personality. Like it or not, most FE characters' personality is tied to their class. It'd be hard to take Boyd seriously as a boisterous bruiser killing machine if you change him to a Priest.

So I'm not sure if I'd like to see reclassing return. Maybe, maybe not.

[tiff]

Like it or not, most FE characters' personality is tied to their class. It'd be hard to take Boyd seriously as a boisterous bruiser killing machine if you change him to a Priest.

pretty much this. class is one of the first things i think of when i think of a FE character, even in the more recent games. Titania is the experienced paladin, Mia the eager swordfighter who's always looking to improve her skills, etc.

it's nice that IS is trying something different, it'd just be nice if it was something that added to the individuality of the characters instead of something that subtracts from it.

[Hero]

I think everybody should be allowed to reclass, but it shouldn't be so easy. It should only be possible in certain places, where the training needed to assume the new class would be available. These spots should be at least as rare as arenas. Like promotion, reclassing should require characters to be at least level ten. There should be some sort of stat penalty, since experience from fighting as a mercenary wouldn't mean much to a cavalier. Perhaps the stats could be regained in the new class with time, I'm not sure what a good mechanism for this would be.

As for what's available to reclass into, I think that characters should be able to reclass into any class that shares at least one weapon type with their current classes. There should be a cost to change classes, though, for the various accessories each one requires. It shouldn't cost much at all to outfit a soldier, but buying armor and a mount for a pegasus knight should put a significant dent in anyone's wallet.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Hero

[Nephinel]

I disagree with that. I should be more free-form like in Shadow Dragon where reclassing occurs during preparation, instead of situational as you described. Honestly, in some situations we would want some units reclassed now, instead of having to wait until level 10 or higher. Especially if they're performing sub-par in their original class or if they need improvement in a particular stat or two.

Also, the stat gain/penalty problem you mentioned has been pretty much addressed in Shadow Dragon. Stat changes from reclassing is equal to the new class's base stats minus the original class's base stats. Any weapon EXP carries over from class to class, but if a unit cannot use a weapon type in their new class, but could in their original class, that weapon type's level is lost.

As for what's available to reclass into, I think that characters should be able to reclass into any class that shares at least one weapon type with their current classes.

This can be a problem, since it would allow units limitless reclassing options, instead of classes in a specific set. Think about it: the Hero class uses Swords and Axes. By that logic, any class that uses Swords or Axes is fair game. ANY class. So Hero switches to Warrior, giving him access to Bows. Then he reclasses to Sniper, then General, then Paladin, then Swordmaster....see where I'm going with this? It would probably break the reclassing system altogether.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Nephinel

[Intoner Two]

I think by "current", Hero really meant to say their "default" class, with the units that can reclass obviously which would exclude lords and other special classes like manaketes or laguz type classes that are in the FE game in question

[shroudening]

Reclassing was a nice thing to have for me. For an example, who has ever heard of a suicide archer

It really allows you to take full advantage of the Levin Sword though. Raise Merric as a Mag, and when his Magic reaches its highest potential, reclass him to swordmaster and give him a Forged Levin Sword.

It also allows you to use the Peg knight sisters even more effectively in chapters without having to worry about getting shot by an arrow(While in other games, fliers didn't have this problem because they could dismount/mount at will).

And characters who have growths Wolf make great Generals.

[CATS]

imo let everyone reclass to everything, combine str/mag into one stat called pow

[Hero]

I disagree with that. I should be more free-form like in Shadow Dragon where reclassing occurs during preparation, instead of situational as you described. Honestly, in some situations we would want some units reclassed now, instead of having to wait until level 10 or higher. Especially if they're performing sub-par in their original class or if they need improvement in a particular stat or two.

In retrospect the level ten requirement is pointless. It's an artifact of the vision I had when I started writing the post, which was changed when the post came into its final form.

Why should reclassing be more free-form, as in Shadow Dragon? That makes it more open to abuse, and I don't think it's as realistic. Becoming proficient in a new, usually completely different fighting style requires time and specialized training that just isn't there between most chapters in all FE games.

Also, the stat gain/penalty problem you mentioned has been pretty much addressed in Shadow Dragon. Stat changes from reclassing is equal to the new class's base stats minus the original class's base stats. Any weapon EXP carries over from class to class, but if a unit cannot use a weapon type in their new class, but could in their original class, that weapon type's level is lost.

Shadow Dragon isn't quite what I was talking about. I was talking about stat penalties that reflect a units inexperience with actual combat in its new class, not stat readjustments that reflect the varying specializations of different classes.

I think that it's fine to leave weapon levels alone, as Shadow Dragon does.

This can be a problem, since it would allow units limitless reclassing options, instead of classes in a specific set. Think about it: the Hero class uses Swords and Axes. By that logic, any class that uses Swords or Axes is fair game. ANY class. So Hero switches to Warrior, giving him access to Bows. Then he reclasses to Sniper, then General, then Paladin, then Swordmaster....see where I'm going with this? It would probably break the reclassing system altogether.

I don't see why. I meant "current" when I said "current" earlier, although I'm not completely adamant on that point. If anything it may prove too limiting. It would be theoretically possible to have a team full of berserkers (except the special characters of course) in my vision of reclassing, but getting to that point would be prohibitively expensive in terms of stats and money.

Reclassing is a neat idea, but it makes no sense when there's no cost connected to it and artificial limitations are imposed.

imo let everyone reclass to everything, combine str/mag into one stat called pow

Why?

[uguu]

@people who don't like reclassing because it 'takes away personality from characters': Fuck personality, reclassing is good from a gameplay standpoint. You don't play games to read character text. You play them to play them.

[Ike-Mike]

Every point 'n click game and visual novel would like to have a word with you, Hika.

I for one am relieved that after every other FE game having trouble with unit balance, especially the ones with multiple class options, Shadow Dragon was finally a very balanced Fire Emblem.

As for the whole 'personality' thing, make it that each character's outfit changes with the class they choose. I think it would be enough if there'd be only 3 or so outfit styles to cover them all, like normal clothes, armor, robes.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[Defeatist Elitist]

Every point 'n click game and visual novel would like to have a word with you, Hika.

Those are games that practically have no gameplay. The game IS the story. Well, Visual Novels at least.

But his point still kind of works, if slightly modified.

The fixed version:

If people wanted to read character text they would be playing a Visual Novel or point 'n click game.

Edited January 4, 2010 by ZXValaRevan

[Hero]

Those are games that practically have no gameplay. The game IS the story. Well, Visual Novels at least.

But his point still kind of works, if slightly modified.

The fixed version:

If people wanted to read character text they would be playing a Visual Novel or point 'n click game.

Not necessarily. Different people prefer different balances between story/background and gameplay in different genres at different times. Not to mention different types of gameplay, even within a genre.

For this reason Fire Emblem, with its backstory for every unit and its support conversations, fills a niche.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Hero