Ike VS. Marth

[Knife]

Those are good points but you also have to throw in the fact that he has a horrible recovery. Also, Wolf isn't a heavyweight. I think he's in the middle near Mario. People just think he's a heavyweight because he's heavy compared to the other Star Fox characters.

[_____]

Those are good points but you also have to throw in the fact that he has a horrible recovery. Also, Wolf isn't a heavyweight. I think he's in the middle near Mario. People just think he's a heavyweight because he's heavy compared to the other Star Fox characters.

At least Ike's recovery is basically Kirby's. The only difference there is that Kirby can actually fly, which is made up for by the fact that Kirby's so light.

[Raven]

I'll let you know what I think two weeks tomorrow... But just out of personal preference, I am going to say Ike. I have yet to vote though... Maybe Marth will be more like Roy from SSBM, in which case I will main with him...

[Blue Knight]

Ike rocks he is so powerful and marth looks like a trans. (side note when I got melee someone said marth was roy's girlfriend)

[Higgins Von Higgings]

Those are good points but you also have to throw in the fact that he has a horrible recovery. Also, Wolf isn't a heavyweight. I think he's in the middle near Mario. People just think he's a heavyweight because he's heavy compared to the other Star Fox characters.

Yah but wolf hits ridiculously hard and fast >_>;...

His Side B is a GREAT recovery, His UP B can actualy come out from under the stage a bit and goes up enough to help in most cases..

[Knife]

Yah but wolf hits ridiculously hard and fast >_>;...

His Side B is a GREAT recovery, His UP B can actualy come out from under the stage a bit and goes up enough to help in most cases..

No, his recoveries are easily edgehoggable. No character is completely cheap, even if some characters are better than others.

[Serene]

Yah but wolf hits ridiculously hard and fast >_>;...

His Side B is a GREAT recovery, His UP B can actualy come out from under the stage a bit and goes up enough to help in most cases..

You can easily stop Ike's side B recovery by letting your self get hit by it, or air doging it. Ike will be in a helpless state

[Higgins Von Higgings]

That is true, however you don't know when the player will react, and even if he does hit you, unless you were out pretty far he can still fall some to the stage. And you might not be able to make it in time (EX: You hit him to the opposite side)

Edited June 13, 2008 by Copain

[Rehab]

Wolf does not have a great recovery. His attack stops at the very end of his kick and the very edge of his side b, so he can be edgehogged in a lot of situations. He also falls like a rock, and he has a harder time grabbing the edge when he's right on it than other people do. Wolf fears being off the edge more than a lot of people.

That set of nitpicks aside, Marth can run circles around Ike and juggle him. He has little trouble avoiding close to anything Ike does, and his attacks come out faster, plus he has enough KO power to finish Ike. Any Ike has to be very precise fighting a good Marth, or he'll be punished like hell.

[_____]

[Knife]

Hell yeah, Ike is teh roxxor.

[_____]

[CGV]

that pic ftw

[_____]

that pic ftw

Totally.

[Princess Kilvas]

Totally.

I agree.

Anyway, as a character. I prefer Ike because I'm more familiar with him. But As a fighter, normally, I'd put speed before power, but personaly, I choose Ike again. I find him easy to control and his attacks can be devastating. But Marth is really good too. But I'm just better with Ike, I guess it doesn't really matter 'cause I prefer Pit over both. I dig the wings ;P

[Zanarkin]

Ike is the best his power is outstanding

[Zanryu]

No, NO. Ike's speed in no way makes him "not able to be cheap" the whole point is his speed LETS HIM be cheap. Gannondorf's attacks are MUCH MUCH harder to land than Ike's, and barely stronger, infact, some aren't stronger (like his Side B ). Ike and any slow character can get out of Pit's arrows easily, because Pit can only use them at about half (or more) the speed of a ray gun, meaning he can't spam it enough to keep you from reacting. Ike's AIR attacks like his A can send someone FLYING who's light, even if it's close to the start of a match (while other heavy characters just move the people a bit with less of a thud than Ike's attacks). Ike is probably the fastest heavy hitter out there (outside of cheap ones like Wolf), His Smash A can one hit people, and it goes off faster than Gannondorf's B attack, which has about the same hitting power, and less range and a longer charge up. Ike has the greatest Side B recovery of the heavy people, reching about twice the range of Gannondorf's side B and farther than (unless you have some nice momentum) Dedede's Up B. Ike can own people just playing with Kirby's Down B since he can just charge up an attack by them, by the time theyget out of the rock or he leaves it normaly, Ike has them because of his attack's range. Ike's down B guards all attacks, all of them, while Pit's Down B not only only guards front attacks but upper front attacks can still hurt him, and it's a breakable reflector. Ike's UP B can stop Final smashes, and his Final smash can one hit a lot of characters (While you can actualy hit pit's away and guard or avoid his attacks while he's launched them, and you get a large amount of time to prep since his FS takes a it, and you see where the units come in). On top of all his attacks, Ike doesn't have a long pause time in his attacks like others do. Dedede takes a bit to recover from his Up B, long enough for people to jump and hit him (and he will go flying if Ike is used) before he can do anything.

So Ike's being slow makes him cheap now? Sure he isn't hellishly slow, but he's slow enough that it makes a HUGE difference, which is a huge downside for him.

And no, they CAN'T get out of Pit's arrows easily, trust me. I've been put against spamming Pits as all sorts of characters, and once they trapped me in his arrows, even mashing the jump button didn't help me get out fast enough. They make you stagger for too long, and by the time they've recovered, you take too long to jump and get smacked again. Eventually you'll be far enough back that you can get out, but if you're not that far, you're stuck.

Yeah, that's LIGHT characters. All in all, it doesn't matter about the weight. Ike can send them a good distance, but Marth can get out his aerials two or three at a time before landing, so he can keep the enemy flying and racking up more damage than Ike all in all, AND he doesn't let them react.

His forward smash can be an OHKO in most cases, but it's REALLY predictable and VERY easy to dodge, unless you trick someone into rolling behind you and you use it in the reverse direction, because it looks like he'll strike forward at first, but then he reverses and strikes hard. That's the only way where it's easy to smack someone with it.

Ike's Quick Draw has phenomenal range, but it can be stopped with ease, either by getting hit with something, or colliding with a player, and then he drops like a sack of potatoes, and his chances of grabbing the edge drop dangerously low. On top of that, the distance is mediocre at best without being charged, so if you're level with the platform and you're a far distance, you're done. There's also the topic of Marth's Shield Breaker. Granted the charge time is a little long, and it holds nothing for being too low (unless you can pull off two uncharged ones and recover, which isn't too difficult), but if you fully charge it, you can go VERY far, and you can Counter an incoming attack straight out of SB, which could easily save your life.

That's pitting someone against a specific character, so that's nulled. I'm sure everyone knows Ike is a better character than Kirby because of Kirby's inaccurate moves with decent recovery time.

Ike's Counter doesn't stop grabs, and it goes up slower than Marth's. If you pit an Ike and Marth against each other, Ike would be helpless once Marth starts grabbing and pulling off juggling air combos. Then all it would take is an uncharged forward smash tipper to kill Ike, or put him too far to recover easily. And by the time he's able to, Marth could be in his face Countering or taking a hit from Quick Draw, stopping Ike in his tracks.

Ike's Final Smash can OHKO a lot (20% +), but it's not easy to hit with necessarily. It's easily sidestepped or dodge rolled, or jumped over even. A quick ^B from Marth would put him clear off Ike's FS upon initiation, all you need is a good reaction time. And although Ike can stop SOME Final Smashes, there are a lot where he can't, and if he gets hit by one of them, he'll take a hard hit, or he'll be blasted to Hell and back.

Ike may not have recovery time like SOME heavy weights, but the recovery time is still rather horrendous, especially for some of his better moves (Eruption, FSmash, USmash). His fastest move is his BAir, which is only useful if you can master rushing with it, or you're sent flying and end up with your back to your opponent. Otherwise it's practically useless, and all his other attacks will leave him sitting there (his A combo being an exception to this, but the only way he has any knock back to consider is if he finishes it, which leaves decent recovery time).

Marth can't super armour anything, but his Dolphin Slash is enough to evade most of them, and he's fast enough to run from some others. He also only has any real recovery time from his DAir, FSmash, DSmash and UB. Otherwise there's nothing to worry about. Another bonus for Marth is he can use his FAir at least twice in one short hop, so if he can SH,FAir,FAir and repeat a few times, that's a bunch of easy damage with no recovery time.

[Serene]

If someone can get a good combo started on a heavy like Ike, he can juggle him for about 100% and then just set him up for the Ken Combo (F-air followed by D-air, making the D-air spike)

There's no question who has the most power, that's Ike. But power is nothing if you can't actually hit the character you're trying to hit, Marth has the speed. Marth's lag times after he uses a move (though are noticeable) is not as laggy as most (if not all) of Ike's attacks.

Raw power=Ike

Greater recovery chance=Marth. This is true because Aether is Edgehogable, and the Quick draw can be interrupted by someone airdodging or taking a hit while he recover's, and if Ike isn't high enough to grab ledge, it's game over.

Speed=Marth

Airial ablity=Marth, though Ike has the strenght he has on ground in air, Marth still has his speed, which makes it easier for him to disturb an Ike attack

FS=Marth, Seriously Great Aether is cool, but if you want a guarenteed kill on contack, go with Marth

Best taunts/victory lines=Marth

I don't want to hear "I fight for my friends, I think that's becomeing a new term for gay.

In short Ike is a step up from Roy in Melee, but if you can't get Ike 1-1 mastered (which most don't) you can beat a Marth in tournament play (which I'm basing my opinion off of)

[Zanryu]

Oh yeah, another plus for Marth: He can short hop to DAir spike if someone's coming up for the ledge, because his spike can be angled a bit. Ike's however, can't do that, because his DAir has too much lag before the actual contact, and his spike is straight down. He can do his DTilt, but that's far more inaccurate.

[Higgins Von Higgings]

So Ike's being slow makes him cheap now? Sure he isn't hellishly slow, but he's slow enough that it makes a HUGE difference, which is a huge downside for him.

And no, they CAN'T get out of Pit's arrows easily, trust me. I've been put against spamming Pits as all sorts of characters, and once they trapped me in his arrows, even mashing the jump button didn't help me get out fast enough. They make you stagger for too long, and by the time they've recovered, you take too long to jump and get smacked again. Eventually you'll be far enough back that you can get out, but if you're not that far, you're stuck.

Yeah, that's LIGHT characters. All in all, it doesn't matter about the weight. Ike can send them a good distance, but Marth can get out his aerials two or three at a time before landing, so he can keep the enemy flying and racking up more damage than Ike all in all, AND he doesn't let them react.

His forward smash can be an OHKO in most cases, but it's REALLY predictable and VERY easy to dodge, unless you trick someone into rolling behind you and you use it in the reverse direction, because it looks like he'll strike forward at first, but then he reverses and strikes hard. That's the only way where it's easy to smack someone with it.

Ike's Quick Draw has phenomenal range, but it can be stopped with ease, either by getting hit with something, or colliding with a player, and then he drops like a sack of potatoes, and his chances of grabbing the edge drop dangerously low. On top of that, the distance is mediocre at best without being charged, so if you're level with the platform and you're a far distance, you're done. There's also the topic of Marth's Shield Breaker. Granted the charge time is a little long, and it holds nothing for being too low (unless you can pull off two uncharged ones and recover, which isn't too difficult), but if you fully charge it, you can go VERY far, and you can Counter an incoming attack straight out of SB, which could easily save your life.

That's pitting someone against a specific character, so that's nulled. I'm sure everyone knows Ike is a better character than Kirby because of Kirby's inaccurate moves with decent recovery time.

Ike's Counter doesn't stop grabs, and it goes up slower than Marth's. If you pit an Ike and Marth against each other, Ike would be helpless once Marth starts grabbing and pulling off juggling air combos. Then all it would take is an uncharged forward smash tipper to kill Ike, or put him too far to recover easily. And by the time he's able to, Marth could be in his face Countering or taking a hit from Quick Draw, stopping Ike in his tracks.

Ike's Final Smash can OHKO a lot (20% +), but it's not easy to hit with necessarily. It's easily sidestepped or dodge rolled, or jumped over even. A quick ^B from Marth would put him clear off Ike's FS upon initiation, all you need is a good reaction time. And although Ike can stop SOME Final Smashes, there are a lot where he can't, and if he gets hit by one of them, he'll take a hard hit, or he'll be blasted to Hell and back.

Ike may not have recovery time like SOME heavy weights, but the recovery time is still rather horrendous, especially for some of his better moves (Eruption, FSmash, USmash). His fastest move is his BAir, which is only useful if you can master rushing with it, or you're sent flying and end up with your back to your opponent. Otherwise it's practically useless, and all his other attacks will leave him sitting there (his A combo being an exception to this, but the only way he has any knock back to consider is if he finishes it, which leaves decent recovery time).

Marth can't super armour anything, but his Dolphin Slash is enough to evade most of them, and he's fast enough to run from some others. He also only has any real recovery time from his DAir, FSmash, DSmash and UB. Otherwise there's nothing to worry about. Another bonus for Marth is he can use his FAir at least twice in one short hop, so if he can SH,FAir,FAir and repeat a few times, that's a bunch of easy damage with no recovery time.

Thats not corny at all, its the truth shadrach

For Pit's arrows, it's called the R button, Learn it. I've never been caught in a volly and not been able to react, ever. Beecause it's not laser gun speed which is just before you can react.

Ike IS NOT AT ALL AS SLOW AS THE OTHER HEAVY WEIGHTS. Please get that through your head. Go run around with Gannondorf then run around with Ike, please tell me who lands a hit faster and Runs faster. Take that with other heavy Characters and Ike is the Heaviest hard hitter out there wand he can move fast.

The "Ken combo" or whatever that thing is, isn't really exactly easy to do. You can't keep saying Marth can non stop juggle someone, because, he can't. People CAN get out of his moves, or, everyone would be Marth and just air combo you, and I've never had that happen, you can try it though, I'll be happy to counter rather than taking 50 hits.

Yes, his forward Smash is easy to see, however it has surpisingly long range that can hit people at about a 90+ degree anglee from him, and it reaches far. Most people tend to Jump over smash attacks or Charge in to land a blow before a slower char can land it, but because of it's range and power it sends them flying in more cases than they dodge it. Yes it takes a bit to prepare, but after the charge up stance it launches almost instantly.

Quick Drawl isn't as easy ans you claim to couynter, there are a lot of cases where the other player can't reach him, or the player simply waits tell the person trying to block the move falls down to launch it. If your Eye level with the stage, it's easier to go under the stage and use B-up rather than try yo ue his Side-b which is illogical.

I have no idea idea as to which part you are reacting to when you say I'm pitting him to a specific character... but even so the point is valid as the instance happens.

Aye, Ike's goes up lower than Marths, so you'd be better off using R dodge in cases, however it's still short enough to counter a Smash attack before the person charging it up lands it. No guard guards Grabs, not even Kirby's Rock. As I said before, you can't just Claim that people are going to land all these hits when I've faced Countless Marth characters and I've always reacted rather than put my Controller down and letting them hit me. Do to the change in weight from character to character and damage, they can't easily be juggled. As for Marth countering Ike's attacks with Counter or hitting him with tip attacks, Look on it on the Flip side, Ike can just hit Marth in the same fashion, and He can just sit there wand wait for Marth's counter to go down to attack (and Marth can't put another one up right away).

I don't see how you can jump over Ike's FS considering it's instant, meaning if your in front of him when the player launches it, you don't have time to move, and all it takes is the guy not to stand still or use it right off for him to get an easy opening to use an INSTANT attack.

Down B also has recovery time, not hte whole time tat he is in the stance can he counter, and hteres the time he goes back to normal, and if even if you use his UP B you can't move much after words, if your directly above Ike on Final Destination after it gets used up, you can't move enough out of the way to avoid his Up smash, and you can't do anything to get out of that fact. And Marth has quite a few Revoery time needing things, not a lot, but still enough to land a quick hit from Ike who has abut the same recovery time. His up Air Does an up slash, then about a sec or two later he has to do a flip, THEN you can use another attack.

[Serene]

For Pit's arrows, it's called the R button, Learn it. I've never been caught in a volly and not been able to react, ever. Beecause it's not laser gun speed which is just before you can react.

Ike IS NOT AT ALL AS SLOW AS THE OTHER HEAVY WEIGHTS. Please get that through your head. Go run around with Gannondorf then run around with Ike, please tell me who lands a hit faster and Runs faster. Take that with other heavy Characters and Ike is the Heaviest hard hitter out there wand he can move fast.

The "Ken combo" or whatever that thing is, isn't really exactly easy to do. You can't keep saying Marth can non stop juggle someone, because, he can't. People CAN get out of his moves, or, everyone would be Marth and just air combo you, and I've never had that happen, you can try it though, I'll be happy to counter rather than taking 50 hits.

Yes, his forward Smash is easy to see, however it has surpisingly long range that can hit people at about a 90+ degree anglee from him, and it reaches far. Most people tend to Jump over smash attacks or Charge in to land a blow before a slower char can land it, but because of it's range and power it sends them flying in more cases than they dodge it. Yes it takes a bit to prepare, but after the charge up stance it launches almost instantly.

Quick Drawl isn't as easy ans you claim to couynter, there are a lot of cases where the other player can't reach him, or the player simply waits tell the person trying to block the move falls down to launch it. If your Eye level with the stage, it's easier to go under the stage and use B-up rather than try yo ue his Side-b which is illogical.

I have no idea idea as to which part you are reacting to when you say I'm pitting him to a specific character... but even so the point is valid as the instance happens.

Aye, Ike's goes up lower than Marths, so you'd be better off using R dodge in cases, however it's still short enough to counter a Smash attack before the person charging it up lands it. No guard guards Grabs, not even Kirby's Rock. As I said before, you can't just Claim that people are going to land all these hits when I've faced Countless Marth characters and I've always reacted rather than put my Controller down and letting them hit me. Do to the change in weight from character to character and damage, they can't easily be juggled. As for Marth countering Ike's attacks with Counter or hitting him with tip attacks, Look on it on the Flip side, Ike can just hit Marth in the same fashion, and He can just sit there wand wait for Marth's counter to go down to attack (and Marth can't put another one up right away).

I don't see how you can jump over Ike's FS considering it's instant, meaning if your in front of him when the player launches it, you don't have time to move, and all it takes is the guy not to stand still or use it right off for him to get an easy opening to use an INSTANT attack.

Down B also has recovery time, not hte whole time tat he is in the stance can he counter, and hteres the time he goes back to normal, and if even if you use his UP B you can't move much after words, if your directly above Ike on Final Destination after it gets used up, you can't move enough out of the way to avoid his Up smash, and you can't do anything to get out of that fact. And Marth has quite a few Revoery time needing things, not a lot, but still enough to land a quick hit from Ike who has abut the same recovery time. His up Air Does an up slash, then about a sec or two later he has to do a flip, THEN you can use another attack.

Dude no offense but when I can find gramatical errors and spelling one's something is wrong.

And everyone is breaking the number one rule of debates

Rule #1 of Debates

KEEP IT SHORT AND SWEET

Seriously if I wanted to read a page of someone typing. I'd go rant at Lyle to make another part in his story.

But on subject, don't rip each other's eyese out.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Whats with you guys with this huge and probably boring post of fails. <_< Shouldn't all characters be good depending on how you play? I asked who is better by opinions not general facts.

[Serene]

Whats with you guys with this huge and probably boring post of fails. <_< Shouldn't all characters be good depending on how you play? I asked who is better by opinions not general facts.

Yeah and that pretty much means that were going to hell now. (Not Really).

But yes Logic is right.

[Zanryu]

For Pit's arrows, it's called the R button, Learn it. I've never been caught in a volly and not been able to react, ever. Beecause it's not laser gun speed which is just before you can react.

Ike IS NOT AT ALL AS SLOW AS THE OTHER HEAVY WEIGHTS. Please get that through your head. Go run around with Gannondorf then run around with Ike, please tell me who lands a hit faster and Runs faster. Take that with other heavy Characters and Ike is the Heaviest hard hitter out there wand he can move fast.

The "Ken combo" or whatever that thing is, isn't really exactly easy to do. You can't keep saying Marth can non stop juggle someone, because, he can't. People CAN get out of his moves, or, everyone would be Marth and just air combo you, and I've never had that happen, you can try it though, I'll be happy to counter rather than taking 50 hits.

Yes, his forward Smash is easy to see, however it has surpisingly long range that can hit people at about a 90+ degree anglee from him, and it reaches far. Most people tend to Jump over smash attacks or Charge in to land a blow before a slower char can land it, but because of it's range and power it sends them flying in more cases than they dodge it. Yes it takes a bit to prepare, but after the charge up stance it launches almost instantly.

Quick Drawl isn't as easy ans you claim to couynter, there are a lot of cases where the other player can't reach him, or the player simply waits tell the person trying to block the move falls down to launch it. If your Eye level with the stage, it's easier to go under the stage and use B-up rather than try yo ue his Side-b which is illogical.

I have no idea idea as to which part you are reacting to when you say I'm pitting him to a specific character... but even so the point is valid as the instance happens.

Aye, Ike's goes up lower than Marths, so you'd be better off using R dodge in cases, however it's still short enough to counter a Smash attack before the person charging it up lands it. No guard guards Grabs, not even Kirby's Rock. As I said before, you can't just Claim that people are going to land all these hits when I've faced Countless Marth characters and I've always reacted rather than put my Controller down and letting them hit me. Do to the change in weight from character to character and damage, they can't easily be juggled. As for Marth countering Ike's attacks with Counter or hitting him with tip attacks, Look on it on the Flip side, Ike can just hit Marth in the same fashion, and He can just sit there wand wait for Marth's counter to go down to attack (and Marth can't put another one up right away).

I don't see how you can jump over Ike's FS considering it's instant, meaning if your in front of him when the player launches it, you don't have time to move, and all it takes is the guy not to stand still or use it right off for him to get an easy opening to use an INSTANT attack.

Down B also has recovery time, not hte whole time tat he is in the stance can he counter, and hteres the time he goes back to normal, and if even if you use his UP B you can't move much after words, if your directly above Ike on Final Destination after it gets used up, you can't move enough out of the way to avoid his Up smash, and you can't do anything to get out of that fact. And Marth has quite a few Revoery time needing things, not a lot, but still enough to land a quick hit from Ike who has abut the same recovery time. His up Air Does an up slash, then about a sec or two later he has to do a flip, THEN you can use another attack.

You have a point about counter, I forgot about that when I mentioned his moves with recovery. That's a mistake on my part. I did say his UB though, and his UAir doesn't have much recovery time at all. Trust me, I use it frequently to juggle.

I never said he was slower than the others, I just said he was slow. I even said he wasn't HELLISHLY slow, but slow nonetheless.

Yes, you can get out, but it's not easy, because once you get out of one set of FAirs, Marth can dodge your break out move and slam you some more. It's not that difficult really.

And if you're facing a spammy Pit, you can't just block one and jump over, because coming out of the shield you'll have no time to jump, and I don't recall if you can jump out of your shield anymore.

Doesn't matter about the range, it's easy to block or side step, end of story. It's too slow to guarantee a hit all the time. The only time someone will run head on into it is if they're not good, or they're experiencing some mad input lag.

Quick Draw IS easy to counter, because you can't charge it too long when you're falling to your death to fake out the opponent, otherwise you'll kill yourself. The only way it's impossible to stop them is if you send them to the other side, but that's a given. Most of the time people aim to kill anyway, so they wouldn't hit to the other side unless it randomly happens due to the placement of their attack OR they're toying with their foe and sending them back and forth.

When I say you're pitting someone against a certain character I'm referring to the Kirby comment.

Half the time people DON'T charge smash attacks, that's the thing. They use them right out of the can to link them to combos quickly either as finishers or to get someone into the air to juggle, so that's not really an issue. And normally smashes can be charged long enough to wait out Ike's counter anyways. So he'll either get smashed right away, or they can wait it out and slam him. Marth isn't really an issue for half of that, as his counter goes up in less than half a second, whereas Ike's takes about a full second to go up. And because of Ike's weight, he CAN be juggled more easily as he doesn't go as far as others from most attacks. Ike's got no sweet spot on his sword, so it doesn't matter if he hits with the tip or not. Marth can rush in and hit at a decent distance, smashing with the tip for extra damage and knock back, and his counter is faster compared to Ike's, so Ike really can't attack in the same fashion. Another thing putting down Ike's ability to "strike in the same fashion", his aerials are far too slow to chain together like Marth's can, so Marth can get more hits in before Ike can get one shot out.

I've gotten over Ike's FS. Once the player grabs it, stay as far as you can. The flames can still get you at a certain point, but as soon as the camera shifts in an odd manner, smash UB and you should be over it. Or you can jump and air dodge right away, which is guaranteed to dodge 90% of the time. That's why I've only been hit by an Ike FS using Marth about four times when I'm not against my friend Peter, and I fight A LOT of Ike players. My friend Peter only gets me because he knows how my mind works (he ought to, been friends for 11 years), otherwise I'd only get hit if I was knocked into it by someone else. One on one he can't get me with it.

Also, if Ike gets knocked too far from FD and is level with it, he won't make it under and then up due to the crap ass horizontal distance of Aether. He'll get close, but he'll fall to his death in the end.

[Serene]

*crunches over* make it stop. Make it stop. I don't want to read one paged essays on this crap anymore, I want to DO A BARREL ROLL