Insane Feminist Review on Firefly

[Dark Sage]

That's true I suppose; however, when you look at it that way, Mal is seen as playing along w/ Wash's "competition" over Zoe in any case, which still weakens the author's point.

I agree that the total number of whites in any given field/position would be larger than any other field. I also think that a certain male/female disparity is going to exist as long as we agree that females make better mothers than males. This is an advantage feminists often seem loathe to surrender, and as long as they don't I don't think they can expect income equality in the workplace.

However, the point isn't the total number employed, it is the rate of employment. I agree that the disparities are disperse - in 2000, a larger percentage of black men than white men had full-time employment. However, what I am pointing to is that a RIDICULOUSLY low number of black youth - and these are young blacks seeking jobs, too - are unable to find even part-time employment. I guess it is probably true that it is more of a rich/poor than a white/black thing at this point.

And sorry for being rather insulting in my last post. You responded rather politely all things considered, so the best thing I can do is say sorry.

That's ok. I wasn't bothered at all. You were just looking at it analytically and made a counterstatement. I was vague and did not word it well. You were just a bit blunt. Nothing to apologize for.

[Defeatist Elitist]

1)Ok first, I do know about the poverty trap and how it's caused. I'm betting it may have to do more with the poor-subpar educational system and infrastructure than racism, but I'm not putting past that there are corrupt officials biased against blacks.

The simple definition of racism is mistreatment of people based on race. The major effects include:

-Harrasment by law enforcement

-Unequal civil rights

-Segregation such as ghettos, black water fountains, black seats etc. (this was solved in the late sixties-early seventies)

-Physical, Verbal, or Sexual harrasment based on race

-Unequal wage or refusal of employment based on race

-Laws, rules, and regulations to beat down those of a different race

So as you can see, I understand the terms quite fine.

2)I never said there wasn't racism and the ones on white males is generally minor and not to get worked up about. This may sound contridictory to my previous statements but I don't mean it to be and the racism is only by a few extreme radicals.

Nor did I say it's ALL directed towards whites. For the whole get rid of the majority thing, majority is usually based on population. The fact is, as you said, there are more white people. That's the main reason they're the majority. To get rid of the majority, you'll have to whittle down the white population and make the rest make more babies.

If the employed majority is what you meant, then it's a lose-lose situation. Either you'll leave blacks unemployed or you'll fire people for no reason other than they're white. Of course there is the third option of simply adding new oppurtunities or jobs for employment but for some buisnesses, that may not be possible.

3)Again, I never said blacks didn't suffer racsim. They WERE second class citizens. I know the history. There is a poverty trap as I said before and that there problaby are corrupt racist officials holding them down. A theory I have is part of the poverty trap (around 25-35%, maybe even 40%) is caused unintentionally due an unconcious (racist) belief that ALL blacks are poor and have bad home lives. This is a myth that must be dispelled to help end the poverty trap and I don't think THAT many officials are out to get blacks.

It seems that you assume I'm an entitled white citizen in denial about blacks. I'm not. I believe racism is a horrible thing and that it certainly does exist, but there is definetly less in America. In other parts of the world (but mainly the third) it definetly does and in high quantities.

I know what I'm talking about. I've had the pleasure of meeting a black man named Barry Scott who was a teenager during Martin Luther King Jr.'s stand for civil rights and was bullied by a cop. He has said that things have been a LOT better than 40 years ago and that those who say that it hasn't just thinks that way about himself (I may have gotten the exact quote wrong) and that as with everything, there's always room for improvement. And I've taken those words to heart.

1) I'm still not sure you're following me, let me explain later.

2) What I am saying here is that there are more white people than people of minorities. Therefore racism is stronger towards minorities. Therefore laws are passed in order to bolster the chances of minorities. See what I am saying?

3) Not all black people are poor by any means. However, because black people WERE second class citizens at one point, it has been difficult for them to make it out of poverty. It's a simple fact that black people make up a disproportionately large portion of poor people.

What is it that you propose we do?

[Dark Sage]

1) I'm still not sure you're following me, let me explain later.

2) What I am saying here is that there are more white people than people of minorities. Therefore racism is stronger towards minorities. Therefore laws are passed in order to bolster the chances of minorities. See what I am saying?

3) Not all black people are poor by any means. However, because black people WERE second class citizens at one point, it has been difficult for them to make it out of poverty. It's a simple fact that black people make up a disproportionately large portion of poor people.

What is it that you propose we do?

1) I'm very curious on what you mean. I believe I stated the definition correctly, so I'm interested in what I'm missing.

2) Yup. Makes sense. It's not like I'm objecting to that.

3) Agreed.

What I think what we should do is to first fix the economy. I'm not going to get into a discussion about it because there's a chance we disagree and I could be wrong. A good economy can boost the black's chances. I also say we should set up orginazations to help teach poor people the skills they need to get out of poverty and lead a successful life.

My point is that while there is indeed racism all around the world, the western world doesn't have it so bad. We are aware of the dangers of racism and try to curb it, but we may not succeed all the time. Sometimes there are people who go overboard and demand their version of equality (i.e, they dominate the men, or the whites, or the asians, or whoever) and can act snobby and condescending not only to the people they're speaking against, but also indirectly for the people they're fighting for.

A lot of racism is usually done in the Third World, but we should clean up our own messes before we interfere with another country's.

[Defeatist Elitist]

1) I'm very curious on what you mean. I believe I stated the definition correctly, so I'm interested in what I'm missing.

2) Yup. Makes sense. It's not like I'm objecting to that.

3) Agreed.

4)What I think what we should do is to first fix the economy. I'm not going to get into a discussion about it because there's a chance we disagree and I could be wrong. A good economy can boost the black's chances. I also say we should set up orginazations to help teach poor people the skills they need to get out of poverty and lead a successful life.

My point is that while there is indeed racism all around the world, the western world doesn't have it so bad. We are aware of the dangers of racism and try to curb it, but we may not succeed all the time. Sometimes there are people who go overboard and demand their version of equality (i.e, they dominate the men, or the whites, or the asians, or whoever) and can act snobby and condescending not only to the people they're speaking against, but also indirectly for the people they're fighting for.

A lot of racism is usually done in the Third World, but we should clean up our own messes before we interfere with another country's.

1) What I meant was that you seemed to not quite understand how minorities/majorities worked. I then pointed out what I meant, which was that when there is a MAJORITY, there are MORE, therefore the majority suffers less racism, and deals out more racism, if we assume that people are, on average, equally racist. I think you understood it after that post, but perhaps you didn't.

2)Alright.

3)Excellent.

4)The thing is though, even if we "fix the economy", unconscious/"background level" racism will still exist, and there will still be more people from certain minorities who are poor. I think that the first world still does have problems with racism and sexism to overcome, and while I agree somewhat that it sometimes can be against men, white people, and whatnot, there still exists a fair amount towards the traditional recipients.

[Dark Sage]

1) What I meant was that you seemed to not quite understand how minorities/majorities worked. I then pointed out what I meant, which was that when there is a MAJORITY, there are MORE, therefore the majority suffers less racism, and deals out more racism, if we assume that people are, on average, equally racist. I think you understood it after that post, but perhaps you didn't.

2)Alright.

3)Excellent.

4)The thing is though, even if we "fix the economy", unconscious/"background level" racism will still exist, and there will still be more people from certain minorities who are poor. I think that the first world still does have problems with racism and sexism to overcome, and while I agree somewhat that it sometimes can be against men, white people, and whatnot, there still exists a fair amount towards the traditional recipients.

Yup. I understand how majority/minorities work.

I never said fixing the economy would solve everything, or it's the only solution, just that it would help out. The unconscious racism does need to be solved, though I'm not exactly sure how. Yes, there will be certain minorities who will be poorer than whites, but don't forget about individual or specific reasons. Some may be out do to being born poor or racism as you say, but there may be homeless blacks because they're thrown out for being gay, made a bad descison, suffering from addiction or illness, bad luck, criminal past, whatever. There's always going to be a certain amount of poor people around, both blacks and whites (and asians, and mexicans, and indians, and whoever).

We have many issues we still need to iron out with racism and sexism, but we seem to be on the right track and it's still not as bad as some radical extremists make it out to be. It's not gone, but we're aware and we're trying to get rid of it and that should count for something.

Sometimes though, it's often members of the race themselves who are their worst enmies.

For instance, they sometimes judge or bully their fellows for being too white, or

being too black. Sometimes, they can be racist towards other groups and come up

with deragratory names for them (like cracker), which hurts their cause.

This is not exclusive to blacks by any means (it happens more with the Japanese),

but since they're apparently the poster boy victims for racism, I'm just using

them as an example.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Dark Sage

[Death']

I never said there wasn't racism and the ones on white males is generally minor and not to get worked up about. This may sound contridictory to my previous statements but I don't mean it to be and the racism is only by a few extreme radicals.

Nor did I say it's ALL directed towards whites. For the whole get rid of the majority thing, majority is usually based on population. The fact is, as you said, there are more white people. That's the main reason they're the majority. To get rid of the majority, you'll have to whittle down the white population and make the rest make more babies.

If the employed majority is what you meant, then it's a lose-lose situation. Either you'll leave blacks unemployed or you'll fire people for no reason other than they're white. Of course there is the third option of simply adding new oppurtunities or jobs for employment but for some buisnesses, that may not be possible.

I live in Asia where white people are the minority, and they STILL act superior.

because of them, I (secretly) have an intense hatred for middle class white men. It's unfair but I can't help it because I've only ever met the snotty ones who look down on us.

I hate them more than silly feminists if that means anything. :3

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I (secretly) have an intense hatred for middle class white men.

90% of this forum consists of middle class white men.

Although, are you sure they act superior?

[Death']

90% of this forum consists of middle class white men.

Although, are you sure they act superior?

Oh.

well I like most of the people here.

Yeah. I generalised too much there. And I think I might've meant Upper class.

What I meant was more like, the people who have higher status all the way around even though they don't deserve it. If that makes sense. Most of the foreigners here are the rich ones so, for example, they tend to disrespect the culture, mock the accents even though people here try so hard to learn english, demolishing old traditional buildings to make pubs or something. Put it this way, some people think they are worth a lot of money just because they have it. and it really bothers me.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Oh.

well I like most of the people here.

Yeah. I generalised too much there. And I think I might've meant Upper class.

What I meant was more like, the people who have higher status all the way around even though they don't deserve it. If that makes sense. Most of the foreigners here are the rich ones so, for example, they tend to disrespect the culture, mock the accents even though people here try so hard to learn english, demolishing old traditional buildings to make pubs or something. Put it this way, some people think they are worth a lot of money just because they have it. and it really bothers me.

Yeah I understand, basically people who were born into rich families. And yeah, that is pretty messed up. Although it's mainly the Americans who are like this. A lot of Europeans have a huge distaste for American foreigners as well and Europeans are mainly white-dominated. So I really wouldn't say it's white people in general that's doing this as it's probably just the Americans.

[Original Alear]

This is kinda off topic and also necroposting, but since I'm not the first I'd like to join in the discussion while it's ongoing.

6669, could you share what country (or countries) in asia you live (or have lived) in? I understand if you're not interested in sharing, but if you don't mind sharing I'd be interested in finding ok.

Yeah I understand, basically people who were born into rich families. And yeah, that is pretty messed up. Although it's mainly the Americans who are like this. A lot of Europeans have a huge distaste for American foreigners as well and Europeans are mainly white-dominated. So I really wouldn't say it's white people in general that's doing this as it's probably just the Americans.

I'm under the impression from my bro, and other people who were abroad in Japan for long periods of time, that the people who

tend to disrespect the culture, mock the accents even though people here try so hard to learn english,

were mostly Australian. For instance when he did JET, the instructors who were actively against bothering to learn any Japanese were Australians (no, you don't need to learn japanese to teach english in japan).

(I've actually been told there's a western guy who immigrated to japan, got married and got citizenship. He is obtrusively disrespectful in situations where he feels there's prejudice against immigrants, effectively practicing civil disobedience. For instance, although japanese police aren't supposed to ask you for identification without cause, they will sometimes approach you and ask (very politely) to check your passport, although they won't force the issue if you make it clear you know you don't have to give it to them. I don't think this is what 6669 was talking about)

I don't know much about caucasian tourists in Asia generally, but do you have any particular proof that americans are larger "sources of rudeness" towards asians or asian culture when in an asian country? It is worth saying that when I was in Japan w/ my bro, we met a french dude who communicated w/ my bro in japanese mostly. He complained that Japanese people assumed he was american and would speak english to him. The following statement itself is quite rude, but I don't think that asians complaining about "american" tourists generally would be a particularly good source, because they might assume all westerners are americans. I'm definitely under the (admittedly uneducated) impression that there seem to be more european expats in Asia than american expats - this is mostly from the fact that I hear about British and German people who were raised in westerner communities in Asia a lot more than I hear about Americans doing so, i.e. from specific examples rather than aggregates.

[Narga_Rocks]

This is kinda off topic and also necroposting, but since I'm not the first I'd like to join in the discussion while it's ongoing.

Actually, feb 28 to march 27 means she just barely made it. And now I've given this an extra ~20 days of life beyond the April 27 it would have reached. Yay me. Just want to make sure people are understanding that necro = 1 month or more.