Heart Gold | Soul SIlver Tier List

[grandjackal]

Gah, forgot about Mareep being available early on. There's also Butterfree too, I guess. But, it takes two turns to give it a status effect, and Flaafy takes 2x damage from Rollout, that doesn't sound like a great idea. But eh, either way is good, and it doesn't really negate anything I'm saying.

Rollout is a Rock move, not Ground. Flaafy takes no weakness damage.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

Oh and dont forget that Bellsprout can learn the powders as well

[grandjackal]

Chika's got poisonpowder early on, meaning it can actually do well against the gyms before they start using full restores. Sure as hell helps against Whitney's Miltank, for instance.

Lum Berry+Rollout pretty much GGs Chikorita's entire defensive strategy (unless I forgot Rock is weak to grass). I'd rather rely on Paralysis as to interrupt Rollout potentially.

[dondon151]

-Milk Drink ensures less visits to the pokecenter, and can keep itself alive mid-battle.

You have an unlimited supply of potions. Tauros hits harder and faster than Miltank.

[grandjackal]

You have an unlimited supply of potions. Tauros hits harder and faster than Miltank.

Miltank is able to hit weaknesses where Tauros can't normally, nor can Tauros potentially deal with ghosts (thanks to Scrappy), and can deal with rock types easier (thanks to Zen Headbutt). If we got Thick Fat instead of Scrappy, this only serves to be Pryce bane, as she'd just Rollout sweep him.

Money I save from not having to buy potions, I could buy a TM, or X Attacks, possibly even an extra stat-up.

Faster? Just slightly, apparently.

[Ansem]

Ok why is there a tier list for Pokemon?

There is no being efficent in Pokemon

Your game time does not effect your end result

Edited March 17, 2010 by Kai

[Colonel M]

Just a fyi GJ: it has Pursuit.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

Considering how Metapod's highest stat is regular Defense and Peck uses the regular Attack stat, that's no surprise. It's Sp.ATK moves you should be using against such.

I know this, but Scyther took out my Cyndaquil and I had no revives

[Florete]

Considering Bayleef is my favorite Pokemon I can't believe I'm saying this, but is the opportunity cost of giving up another starter factored into their positions? Obviously this wouldn't likely have a great effect on Cyndaquil, and maybe not too much for Totodile either (although considering Feraligatr and Gyarados are both physical attack-based water types...), but it might be cause for Chikorita to drop.

I've also never dealt with Pokemon tiers before, so let me know if there's anything I'm missing or seeing in the wrong way.

[The Divine Swordmaster]

Considering Bayleef is my favorite Pokemon I can't believe I'm saying this, but is the opportunity cost of giving up another starter factored into their positions? Obviously this wouldn't likely have a great effect on Cyndaquil, and maybe not too much for Totodile either (although considering Feraligatr and Gyarados are both physical attack-based water types...), but it might be cause for Chikorita to drop.

I've also never dealt with Pokemon tiers before, so let me know if there's anything I'm missing or seeing in the wrong way.

You may be right. Choosing Chikorita/Totodile prevents us from getting Cyndaquil (and vice versa) who is the only fire pokemon availiable until just before Ecruteak City and those pokemon need fire stones (eevee, growlithe, vulpix) to go to their final forms Ponyta comes late. But there is Magmar who comes around the same time Growlithe/Vulpix does.

But yeah not choicing Cyndaquil forces us to not have access to fire until the 4th gym

[General Spoon]

Dratini is buyable at the Goldenrod Gamecorner. You should probably include it in the list.

[Colonel M]

Considering Bayleef is my favorite Pokemon I can't believe I'm saying this, but is the opportunity cost of giving up another starter factored into their positions? Obviously this wouldn't likely have a great effect on Cyndaquil, and maybe not too much for Totodile either (although considering Feraligatr and Gyarados are both physical attack-based water types...), but it might be cause for Chikorita to drop.

I've also never dealt with Pokemon tiers before, so let me know if there's anything I'm missing or seeing in the wrong way.

Nah, they're given equal weight. Consider it as Bartre and Echinda if it helps (so basically something like your mind is set on using that Pokemon). Otherwise Totodile would drop and Chikorita might as well not exist.

Didn't mean to forget Dratini, so I'll add that. Also added Eeveelutions.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Salad Utensil]

Ok why is there a tier list for Pokemon?

There is no being efficent in Pokemon

Your game time does not effect your end result

Even though I agree with you at this level and that the tier list at Smogon holds more meaning to me compared to efficiency at Pokemon at least, don't argue against a tier list's existence just because you dislike the way they are ranking things. Even if you also disagree with the tier list you could either argue for change so that endgame holds all the weight or not post rather than get flamed and get your intellect questioned by one of the heads in this tier list...

I also think that endgame is the only thing that matters in pokemon as well, but this might be a better list if you prefer something like that: http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/,

BTW to stay on topic this link should be looked at anyway for people to stop making error based arguments: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page though its kinda slow at this point because of HG/SS coming out...

Edit: BTW I recommend you rename the tiers so that references to fire emblem are removed to make shady connections eliminated to avoid confusion...(just a suggestion you can ignore if you want).

Edited March 18, 2010 by Brighton

[Colonel M]

Don't worry, I renamed the tiers in the Smogon list. Top is "Garchomp with Tyranitar Support" and bottom is "Electivire", for my kiddish reasons.

[Momo]

Rollout is a Rock move, not Ground. Flaafy takes no weakness damage.

Was thinking rock did 2x to elec, I blame lack of sleep.

Oh and dont forget that Bellsprout can learn the powders as well

My main point reminds unchanged. Only a handful of pokes can do this, Chika being one. Bellsprout might not even be a high enough level to use Stun Spore yet.

[Dat Nick]

um what how did I help with this at all outside of saying "hey vanilla gyrados should be on"

And Colonel, I still heavily protest the banning of evolution trading. Most of the people who have a DS also have wifi, and it isn't like we're trading to get Mewtwo or Paras or wtfe here. It's just evo trading that you get right back. Really, what's the big deal? Who cares if it's an outside source? When Mekkah made the GSC tier list it had to be assumed that you either had to have a friend who had the game (which considering it's pokemon is not that hard of a task but whatever I'll bite) or another gameboy/pokemon game, but with this, you need nothing, so I don't care for "But Mekkah didn't consider it!" as justification.

also

Giving a Pokemon a TM like the Dig in RBY cannot simply be assumed as there is likely lots of competition for it.

dude dig sucks nobody wants it lol

Edited March 18, 2010 by s Portsman

[HongLei]

K I know nothing of tiers but why is poliwag in a low tier he is amazing he learns hypnosis early on I haven't played hg/ss yet but can u get poli early like in crystal or do u have to wait if u can get him early he should be a tier or two up

edit: y ban evo trading u just trade to get gengar or machamp it's not like your asking your friend for a lv 100 beast or taking tms or items off dp. Evolving like that should be fine as long as it is straight to them and strait back so u only get an evo not a free item or uber

Edited March 18, 2010 by rslfan

[Don Draper]

Poliwag has a potential late evolution, since getting elemental stones in this game is somewhat unpredictable. However, it looks like you can catch one with the Old Rod as soon as you get the Old Rod (and then you just have to backtrack to Route 31). It comes at Level 10, which probably isn't that far behind your other Pokemon. It learns Water Gun in one level, its stats aren't terrible (more speed then Totodile, but less Atk/Def) and by the time Croconaw learns Ice Fang at Lvl 21, Poliwag will at least know Body Slam. It all depends on when it gets that water stone. So yeah, its move pool isn't quite as diverse as Totodile's (And it ends up having a bit less str/def), but it looks like a decent replacement. I could actually seeing it rising all the way to high if we're allowing resets for the prize at the bug catching contest.

EDIT: wtf at Diglett that high, you can only get him after Waterfall, and even then he's at Level 20. Lower Mid seems more fitting.

Edited March 18, 2010 by IOS

[Dat Nick]

Not to mention Dugtrio has kind of a rap for being mediocre, so even when levelled it's not worth that much. I daresay low tier is possible.

Edit: Now I know I was the one who said Shuckle down but COME ON. I know it fails, but still, psuedotanking isn't even in the same league as Ditto/Smeargle/Unown, morons who can't do anything at all.

Edited March 18, 2010 by s Portsman

[Don Draper]

Also, Tentacool to High Top Tier. Seriously.

Comes right after the 1st gym after some fishing at Lvl 10 like Poliwag. Two levels until it gets its first 40 atk STAB attack like pretty much every other Pokemon. Its fast too which is cool. Statistically, its actually not too much of a step down from Totodile. Then at level 19, its gets its second STAB attack with Bubblebeam at 97.5 Base Atk. Totodile actually does not get an attack with this power until Level 50, although it'll probably have Surf before that. Tentacool's Special Atk isn't actually that much lower then Croconaws, and its much faster. When Tentacool evolves, its performing pretty much on par with Feraligatr (and they evolve at the same time). Same special attack (which Tentacruel will be using for most of his attacks), pretty much the same HP, less def for more special def, and much faster. Should I mention that Water/Poison is an amazing combo? Resists Fire, Water, Ice, Fighting, Poison, Bug and Steel. Only weak to Electric, Ground and Psychic. All in all, Tentacool comes early, doesn't need to be babied, and quickly becomes competent.

High Top tier this guy

Edited March 18, 2010 by IOS

[Dat Nick]

holy shit tentacool became something useful

Who'da thunk it

man, totodile, tentacool, poliwag, red gyra...the developer must really like waters

Edited March 18, 2010 by s Portsman

[Don Draper]

You can thank Old Rod being more versatile for that. No more guaranteed Magikarps.

Edited March 18, 2010 by IOS

[Colonel M]

Yeah, Gamefreak likes Water-types too much. srsly.

According to Serebii it says Diglett is available in Route 48. Now, this is right before you enter the Safari Zone too. But he's basically up there because not only is he a free Dig, but he's also quick. I guess he could drop to Cubone's level if I put Diglett over him.

Didn't know that about Tentacool. I'm a little skeptical with Top, but I can probably give you High Tier atm. At least Sludge Bomb is possible to learn (Route 43, which is before Lake of Rage), so it'll have its boss dual STABs pretty fast.

I can raise Poliwag I guess. I want Staryu up with him since, despite not having an earlygame, it actually has a competent movepool and good TM-learnable moves. Then when it's Starmie it basically tears shit apart with its base 100 SpA and access to Recover. I'm still iffy on the Stone mons since I can't really confirm if you can get them before the Nat'l Dex via Bug Catching Contest, but for now we'll go with the flow and say that you can.

And bblade, my problem was still needing an outside source for the evolution, not hinging on "because Mekkah said so".

[Don Draper]

Tentacruel is really pretty much equal with Feraligatr stat wise, and it has dual STABS and better resistances, so I can't see them not being in the same tier.

I read that there is a Lass on Route 34 that will call you to give you Leaf Stones if you get her number. Route 34 is just before Goldenroad, so this is very convenient for Oddish/Bellsprout/Exeggcute. Exeggcute especially, since you can get it from Headbutting trees pretty early, and you don't need to level it at all in order to get Exeggcutor.

Still don't know about Water Stones

EDIT: Fisherman Tully, west of Olivine City will occasionally call you and give you a Water stone. Comes later then Leaf Stones, but better then nothing.

Edited March 18, 2010 by IOS

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Still don't know about Water Stones

EDIT: Fisherman Tully, west of Olivine City will occasionally call you and give you a Water stone. Comes later then Leaf Stones, but better then nothing.

You mean Mahogany town, the route that connects it and Ecruteak. Haven't gotten there yet but you can probably fight this guy as soon as you beat Morty.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Speedwagon