What if wind affinity gave +AS?

[grandjackal]

I might as well try out some numbers.

Keiran upon rejoining probably could have Resolve slapped on him, but in my wildest dreams he will most likely need to be at 21 HP to do this. Let's see what we get.

31 "Skill", 30 "Speed", topped off with 16 Luck

78 base hit, 76 avoid.

Throw in a C support (let's say Marcia), we got 83 hit, 78 avoid. Add Ike's leadership, that's 98 hit, 93 avoid.

Killer Axe has 75 hit, so 173 hit, 30 crit stacked on his 31 "skill" for 45 crit.

Now, cut 173 in half and we are left with 86 hit. *Looks at the enemy avoid for chapter 3-11*

...Yeah, fuck this skill. The best you're going to see is 40 displayed when Keiran's at best bio and the enemy is at worst. Maybe if you gave him a really really really really really really really awesome forge, he could possibly get up to 70 displayed (We're basically asking for a max might, hit AND crit forge of an iron axe). Since a Killer Axe has no way in hell of seeing real use (with a forge, you need Biorythmn on your side), he'd have 30 crit instead. If it doubles BEFORE factoring in dodge, he'd have an average displayed crit of 43. If after, 26. Luckily, the 35 might and doubling under Resolve would cut the mustard for most enemies, but let's review what we're asking of Keiran.

A 3,400 forge, to be in Resolve health, to HAVE Resolve, all for at BEST a coinflip to land a crit on top of still shaky accuracy when under best bio when the enemy is at worst.

This is entirely theoretical, because on top of it I can't actually FIT Resolve on Keiran unless I crown him!

I just thought you all would like to appreciate just how much Gamble sucks balls, because even under the BEST circumstances it's still an incredibly shaky move.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Cait Sith

[Narga_Rocks]

Why can't you fit Resolve on him? He gets Gamble for free. He has 30 capacity in tier 2 and loses 10 to canto. 20 remaining, Resolve is 15. No problems.

In fact, basically any foot unit can have Resolve + Gamble in tier 2 since they get 25 capacity and Gamble costs 10 on non-Kieran units.

Laguz that aren't birds can get it at level 15 as well, only they generally have 0 crit on enemies. 0 crit x 2 is zero. Woohoo. Even if you double their ~15 crit before enemy luck, that's still 30 - 15 = 15 crit, which is quite bad. Well, I suppose their crit goes up a bit if you are giving them resolve (the cats and tigers), but even so.

If you supported Janaff with Heaven for +27 hit, combined with his skill and high-hit beak and insight, he'd probably still not go above 80 hit on enemies, (though after hitting level 30 if you gave him resolve instead of tear for some strange reason I suppose Resolve might just allow him to have 100 hit). Still won't have much in the way of hit.

[grandjackal]

Why can't you fit Resolve on him? He gets Gamble for free. He has 30 capacity in tier 2 and loses 10 to canto. 20 remaining, Resolve is 15. No problems.

*Scritches head*

...Oh! I didn't notice you got +10 capacity upon reaching tier 2. I thought it was just 5.

In fact, basically any foot unit can have Resolve + Gamble in tier 2 since they get 25 capacity and Gamble costs 10 on non-Kieran units.

Laguz that aren't birds can get it at level 15 as well, only they generally have 0 crit on enemies. 0 crit x 2 is zero. Woohoo. Even if you double their ~15 crit before enemy luck, that's still 30 - 15 = 15 crit, which is quite bad. Well, I suppose their crit goes up a bit if you are giving them resolve (the cats and tigers), but even so.

If you supported Janaff with Heaven for +27 hit, combined with his skill and high-hit beak and insight, he'd probably still not go above 80 hit on enemies, (though after hitting level 30 if you gave him resolve instead of tear for some strange reason I suppose Resolve might just allow him to have 100 hit). Still won't have much in the way of hit.

Well, the cats do have plenty of Skill with +Hit affinities outside of Lyre even more reason to fail. Ranulf with it under Resolve would have about 177+30 hit from Lethe, add +15 from leadership and at Gamble we would have 111 hit. I think it would still be a matter of Bio, but the crit he would have is 24 under resolve.

Lowest enemy avoid is about 66, so at neutral it would be about 45. Best to worst, 65. All for about...14 crit. Still not worth it. That is, unless I once again mucked up the hit bonuses with supports).

EDIT: Anyone notice that Nailah under Resolve would have 69 Skill? She'd have about 32 crit, and to go with that...A 69% chance of Savage...

...The Savage 69

Edited March 19, 2010 by Cait Sith

[Narga_Rocks]

*Scritches head*

...Oh! I didn't notice you got +10 capacity upon reaching tier 2. I thought it was just 5.

Micky's the only one that gets +10 capacity. All the other beorc go from 15 to 30, hence +15. They go to 60 in tier 3, but a lot of the mastery skills cost 30 capacity and thus they gain nothing. Colossus, Deadeye, and Stun only cost 25, though, so the classes that use those effectively get +5 capacity for other skills at promotion to tier 3.

Laguz start at 20 when under level 15, then jump to 35 at level 15 (also a jump of 15) and then climb all the way to 70 at level 30.

(and yes, I typed all of that without referencing the rd page, though I did double check one thing after typing the above)

EDIT: Anyone notice that Nailah under Resolve would have 69 Skill? She'd have about 32 crit, and to go with that...A 69% chance of Savage...

...The Savage 69

even without Resolve, Nailah at base level has the highest mastery proc rate in the game. Naesala is the only unit that can ever beat her, since she starts at 46% and tops out at 48% and he can reach 50%. Tibarn caps speed at 23, so he only ever ties her base rate. Giffca with a str transfer ties her at base, and her skl cap is the same as Cain and Giffca's str cap (though they can't boost it in NA and PAL versions of the game like Nailah can with Resolve). So she is in a 3 way tie for the 2nd best possible mastery proc rate in the entire game and owns the best base mastery proc rate of any of the royals. She's a tough woman.

[grandjackal]

even without Resolve, Nailah at base level has the highest mastery proc rate in the game. Naesala is the only unit that can ever beat her, since she starts at 46% and tops out at 48% and he can reach 50%. Tibarn caps speed at 23, so he only ever ties her base rate. Giffca with a str transfer ties her at base, and her skl cap is the same as Cain and Giffca's str cap (though they can't boost it in NA and PAL versions of the game like Nailah can with Resolve). So she is in a 3 way tie for the 2nd best possible mastery proc rate in the entire game and owns the best base mastery proc rate of any of the royals. She's a tough woman.

...And the joke completely flies over Narga's head.

[Narga_Rocks]

...And the joke completely flies over Narga's head.

No, it didn't. I just don't care. That joke is beneath me. I'd rather talk about Nailah without resolve having the best mastery proc in the game (until Naesala is leveled enough)

[grandjackal]

It's just an innuendo joke, chill out man. It's not like I'm unaware of her amazing mastery proc'ing.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Cait Sith

[Original Alear]

I wonder if it would be worth bringing Astrid to 2-3 while going for max BEXP in order to help her get a support with kieran or geoff (who IIRC are borderline doubling some enemies in 3-9). I'm not sure how easy or hard it is to help her survive in that chapter since I've never actually brought her.

It's now a niche affinity that isn't particularly useful for units like Boyd, since +1 AS and +2 AS aren't that significant when you have a base spd of 18 and a 45% growth. But there are some units that benefit a fair amount.

Wouldn't a boyd, or at least a (T) boyd, be able to double a lot more enemies with a point or two of AS? I remember him being at borderline right before doubling in HM most of the time.

[Narga_Rocks]

I wonder if it would be worth bringing Astrid to 2-3 while going for max BEXP in order to help her get a support with kieran or geoff (who IIRC are borderline doubling some enemies in 3-9). I'm not sure how easy or hard it is to help her survive in that chapter since I've never actually brought her.

Wouldn't a boyd, or at least a (T) boyd, be able to double a lot more enemies with a point or two of AS? I remember him being at borderline right before doubling in HM most of the time.

A (T) Boyd should have a wing if you have a T Titania (she doesn't need it). Even emo-sage isn't competition because of bexp-ability. I suppose for the first few chapters he may appreciate wind, but after that its a waste since he'll no longer need it. A normal Boyd is what I was talking about, though. Wind, at best, will allow him to double some Generals and mages that he wouldn't normally. I'm not even sure he'd be able to double paladins with the wind boost.

Also, there is no way Astrid will build to a C with either of them in one chapter. Even if you hang around in 2-E long enough I don't think it would work. Maybe, though.

[NinjaMonkey]

Micaiah might double in Part 1

I dunno, I'm sure that 12 AS isn't enough to double anything...

Also, there is no way Astrid will build to a C with either of them in one chapter. Even if you hang around in 2-E long enough I don't think it would work. Maybe, though.

I don't see why not (I can have her have enough support points for a C Makalov by the end of 2-E).

[Narga_Rocks]

I don't see why not (I can have her have enough support points for a C Makalov by the end of 2-E).

That's the main point. You have to go until the last turn of 2-E just to have a chance even though you could finish much earlier. Plus, it's a bit annoying keeping her alive in 2-3 on HM, and you just play EM where it is quite easy to make use of her.

[grandjackal]

I dunno, I'm sure that 12 AS isn't enough to double anything...

Why have Wrath, when you can have Resolve?

[Narga_Rocks]

Why have Wrath, when you can have Resolve?

Basically, she almost makes it to doubling with Resolve. With a starting A support with a wind user, she gets +2 attack speed. Couple that with Resolve's increase to her natural speed and 10 becomes 17 instead of 15, 12 becomes 20, etc. Considering she soon 2HKOs everything under the sun, if she is doubling then everything she attacks on player phase dies.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[NinjaMonkey]

That's the main point. You have to go until the last turn of 2-E just to have a chance even though you could finish much earlier. Plus, it's a bit annoying keeping her alive in 2-3 on HM, and you just play EM where it is quite easy to make use of her.

I dunno, she still blows on EM (she needs a transfer to double/kill even the 1st tier enemies).

[Narga_Rocks]

I dunno, she still blows on EM (she needs a transfer to double/kill even the 1st tier enemies).

But she isn't at constant risk of death in EM if you let her get attacked twice. I'm aware she still can't kill stuff, but at least it is easier to have her follow another unit around and build points.

[NinjaMonkey]

On my current playthrough I'm having her solo 2-3. I did an initial trial run and at the beginning of turn 3 she had only 2HP left...

[Narga_Rocks]

On my current playthrough I'm having her solo 2-3. I did an initial trial run and at the beginning of turn 3 she had only 2HP left...

Oh, she'll still need healing items and all. The difference between EM and HM though is that if you have her follow Mak around and potshot things and heal as necessary, she faces little to no danger of dying. On HM I think many things 2HKO her, so it can be hard to build points with a unit (Mak) that is attempting to fight stuff since she can't safely follow Mak around.

[NinjaMonkey]

Basically, she almost makes it to doubling with Resolve. With a starting A support with a wind user, she gets +2 attack speed. Couple that with Resolve's increase to her natural speed and 10 becomes 17 instead of 15, 12 becomes 20, etc. Considering she soon 2HKOs everything under the sun, if she is doubling then everything she attacks on player phase dies.

Given that she is one-shotted by most (if not all) enemies, how exactly are we gonna get her to resolve health in the first place?

[grandjackal]

Given that she is one-shotted by most (if not all) enemies, how exactly are we gonna get her to resolve health in the first place?

Sacrifice, it exists. In fact, it's one of her defining abilities.

[NinjaMonkey]

Problem is though, if she does get hit..

GAME OVER!

[Anouleth]

Problem is though, if she does get hit..

GAME OVER!

Unless Micaiah is incredibly blessed, that's always true for her. And she's forced into every chapter, so we may as well make the most of her and give her the power to kill everything on the map.

[Narga_Rocks]

Unless Micaiah is incredibly blessed, that's always true for her. And she's forced into every chapter, so we may as well make the most of her and give her the power to kill everything on the map.

Your response is so much nicer than mine.

My response:

DON'T SUCK.

Basically, it is really really easy to go around most part 1 maps and most part 4 maps (also 3-12) and have her attack nearly every player phase and never let her get attacked on enemy phase. It's that simple. Well, also don't attack stuff that can counter her and cause damage, but since she has more res than most mages have attack and there aren't that many crossbow/hand axe/wind edge/javelin type enemies in the game, that's hardly an issue.