S Rank Tier List for FE7

[frat_tastic]

It would be interesting, for sure. I don't think they belong on this tier list though. I would totally be into a tier list for the terrain tiles though, if we made one.

[-Cynthia-]

Perhaps the title should be changed to "S Rank Unit Tier List FE7" to avoid confusion and not havign to tier non-characters like terrian tiles, Merlinus etc.

[Rewjeo]

I wouldn't want to add tiles to this tier list (I've already explained why Merlinus is a unit, at least IMO) but I think it would be really interesting to have another tier list for tiles.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I wouldn't mind tiering the tiles. Like I said, Vendor vs Secret Shop could be a pretty interesting debate. It would breathe some new life into the discussions around here, after all, FE7 Ranked has been picked over by various communities for around 5 years now. Pretty much everything traditional has been done.

Fellow Convoy Coalition Members, what do you make of Interceptor's demand here? I think it's reasonable, and he would be a valuable ally in our crusade to defend Merlinus's right to be tiered.

Well, I was accounting for the possibility that your answer might differ from mine, but I guess you have a point. In the future, perhaps I will just assume that what I suspect is probably right, and keep my thoughts to myself.

Both intelligent and humble. I can see why Professor Smash holds you in such high regard.

CATS for top of the Passive Aggressive Tier List!

[Life]

Figure I might comment on Merlinus after finishing my S Rank run (ENM but I'm talking about Merlinus so it applies).

If we do tier him, we have to give him his own tier above Top with possibly an empty tier in between him and Top. And I'm dead serious about this. The Funds rank almost broke me in my ENM run. During the last couple chapters, every slot that Merlinus had was filled up and most of the slots on my units were too (I think I had something like 10 open slots left). What I'm saying is that it is impossible to S Rank with him. Not very hard but impossible.

If we don't use Raven, it makes our run harder but not impossible. If we don't use Matthew to steal the Silver Card, it makes our run harder but not impossible. But if Merlinus (Convoy) didn't exist, S Ranking HHM would be impossible. It cannot be done.

If you guys want Merlinus on the list, then he has to auto-top it based on the fact that you can't S Rank without him and his stuff isn't storyline based. I'm still not for it but what the hell, right?

[CATS]

I really don't believe that it's impossible to S Rank without him. You're going to have to explain why you needed almost 200 inventory slots to S Rank Funds.

[Integrity]

Wouldn't the Funds rank be rather MORE likely to break you in a NM run, on account of the Silver Card doesn't exist so you can't double all your cash in 31x?

[Life]

Wouldn't the Funds rank be rather MORE likely to break you in a NM run, on account of the Silver Card doesn't exist so you can't double all your cash in 31x?

Opposite way. You buy more items when you have the Silver Card to double your funds.

In my ENM run, it doesn't matter how much liquid cash I have. In fact, I don't have to spend a penny in 29x because I don't gain anything. I did because I needed the weapons but I didn't need to.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Integrity]

Opposite way. You buy more items when you have the Silver Card to double your funds.

In my ENM ru , it doesn't matter how much liquid cash I have. In fact, I don't have to spend a penny in 29x because I don't gain anything. I did because I needed the weapons but I didn't need to.

wh...what? That's exactly what I said. Because there's no Silver Card in NM, you can't exploit it for double-value in shops, and therefore it's harder to attain Funds.

[Life]

wh...what? That's exactly what I said. Because there's no Silver Card in NM, you can't exploit it for double-value in shops, and therefore it's harder to attain Funds.

The idea is to have even more items when you have the Silver Card. Ergo, the need for more room.

[frat_tastic]

You don't need tons of room though if you purchase your items wisely. For instance, you can buy a Fell Contract in the VoD secret shop. Purchasing really expensive items like this maximizes how much funds you add into your pool. Merlinus, like the Silver Card or Raven, isn't necessary, he just adds more flexibility and makes our lives easier, since we don't HAVE to waste money on items like Fell Contracts and such to help us S-Rank funds.

[Narga_Rocks]

Besides, even if you want to credit Merlinus for the "send to merlinus" option, that still doesn't mean you have to credit him for holding 100 items. If you never have to deploy him for this benefit, why give him credit? Unlike other arguments for tiering the fe9/10 convoy crew that don't work because Merlinus does something that is different from them, this isn't different at all.

Merlinus not deployed: 100 item slots

Convoy Crew not deployed in fe9? 100 (or was it 200?) item slots

the fact that one can be deployed and one can't be deployed doesn't change that these two statements are exactly the same and apply to both equally. Therefore, if he gets credit for the 100 items then they should get tiered with that same credit. He does more, of course, because he is a sucky convoy type that needs to be deployed to do his job properly, but the holding items functionality, at least, is something both do precisely the same. If he's worth, say, an 8 based on all his functions, including holding 100 items, then they could be, say, a 3 for holding items in PoR. The remaining 5 points of his worth are from the added value of holding items in a ranked game and from the other stuff he does.

[CATS]

Besides, even if you want to credit Merlinus for the "send to merlinus" option, that still doesn't mean you have to credit him for holding 100 items. If you never have to deploy him for this benefit, why give him credit? Unlike other arguments for tiering the fe9/10 convoy crew that don't work because Merlinus does something that is different from them, this isn't different at all.

Yeah, this was my original argument, but obviously it was ignored or had little effect. If you credit him just for holding stuff, then those FE9 convoy guys should be tiered as well, since they do that too.

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah, this was my original argument, but obviously it was ignored or had little effect. If you credit him just for holding stuff, then those FE9 convoy guys should be tiered as well, since they do that too.

I remember that there was an argument against crediting his item holding ability, but I forgot what and who made it. Basically what is up for debate here if Merlinus were to be tiered (and given credit for everything with a somewhat reasonable argument for doing so) is how useful "send to merlinus" and pulling from the convoy mid-battle are in comparison to the pains of keeping him out of combat to prevent damage to the combat rank and tactics rank where applicable. Does he even do anything else? He can't do anything else, right? Once he can move after promotion, can he start visiting villages and shops or is that still beyond his abilities?

[Life]

I remember that there was an argument against crediting his item holding ability, but I forgot what and who made it. Basically what is up for debate here if Merlinus were to be tiered (and given credit for everything with a somewhat reasonable argument for doing so) is how useful "send to merlinus" and pulling from the convoy mid-battle are in comparison to the pains of keeping him out of combat to prevent damage to the combat rank and tactics rank where applicable. Does he even do anything else? He can't do anything else, right? Once he can move after promotion, can he start visiting villages and shops or is that still beyond his abilities?

I said that. Too lazy to read the rest of you post, though.

EDIT: Apparently you can trade items with him but I can't for some reason. So I'd say that it's pointless to have him visit villages.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Narga_Rocks]

I said that. Too lazy to read the rest of you post, though.

said what? Considering you are wanting to credit him for holding 100 items, I don't think you'd be the one to make an argument against doing that.

EDIT: Apparently you can trade items with him but I can't for some reason. So I'd say that it's pointless to have him visit villages.

In the item menu in the base, apparently. At least, from what's been said here. If you aren't needing the item until next chapter, it's fine and it lets you not spend the turn of a combat unit/healer/dancer to grab an item from a village, if there are any after he promotes.

[Florete]

EDIT: Apparently you can trade items with him but I can't for some reason. So I'd say that it's pointless to have him visit villages.

Start here:

Find his item here:

Trade here:

Profit.

[Dat Nick]

The combat rank is lol and I can't imagine how deploying Merlinus ever could possibly harm the tactics rank. If protecting him is going to waste time, don't do it.

Oh, and I'm getting sick of talking about Merlinus. I'm just about ready to make a tier list for dog shit, that would probably spark more interesting discussion.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Detective Badd

[CATS]

Then maybe it's time to do away with the FE7 tier list entirely. Boring as he may be, Merlinus obviously remains far, far more interesting than anything else that's come up recently, considering how much discussion has been centered on him rather than more traditional discussions.

[grandjackal]

Then let's bring up something different right now.

Lucius>Pent. My reasoning is that while Lucius might cost us a guiding ring, he also is one of our best at padding out the EXP rank thanks to his low base level (even if you did Lyn'smode, he can't do much to get his levels extraordinarily high, thanks to having only 1 tome). Pent comes free and as versatile as he is, but I think EXP is apparently more a problem than Funds.

Even when promoted, he's nearly got Pent's staff utility as well, due to starting with C rank. Might not be as nice as Pent's rank for physic, but it's close enough.

Maybe I'm stretching it, but I figured I should start some form of discussion outside of "Hey, let's talk Merlinus until we all have migraines from yelling at eachother over mundane details".

[Rodykitty]

Then maybe it's time to do away with the FE7 tier list entirely. Boring as he may be, Merlinus obviously remains far, far more interesting than anything else that's come up recently, considering how much discussion has been centered on him rather than more traditional discussions.

It would be a huge waste to throw away a now accurate tier list, and if it isn't accurate then it is wrong to say that there is no more discussion.

[frat_tastic]

I'd rather we came to some sort of conclusion before we just decide to not talk about Merlinus. I've been seeing more people who are in favor of tiering him than those who aren't in favor.

Also we can handle more than one topic at a time. Not everyone has to talk about every topic, and we can certainly multitask.

[Anouleth]

I think that whatever the outcome, a decision should be made regarding Merlinus. This discussion has been going on for more than ten pages, and I don't think we've gotten any further than we were at the beginning of this topic.

Then let's bring up something different right now.

Lucius>Pent. My reasoning is that while Lucius might cost us a guiding ring, he also is one of our best at padding out the EXP rank thanks to his low base level (even if you did Lyn'smode, he can't do much to get his levels extraordinarily high, thanks to having only 1 tome). Pent comes free and as versatile as he is, but I think EXP is apparently more a problem than Funds.

Even when promoted, he's nearly got Pent's staff utility as well, due to starting with C rank. Might not be as nice as Pent's rank for physic, but it's close enough.

I think that if Lucius joining at a higher level is actually an issue, we can just use him less in LM. It depends on whether you think he gains more from contributing extra to the EXP rank or from joining at a higher level. No special demands are made on our LM run apart from S Ranking it, which is easy enough, so within reason we can tweak Lucius' joining level to suit us. In a way, this benefits us since we can level Lucius to compensate for whatever Rank we care most about.

[CATS]

It would be a huge waste to throw away a now accurate tier list, and if it isn't accurate then it is wrong to say that there is no more discussion.

I was simply commenting on someone's opinion that the Merlinus discussion is boring, by noting that it's probably been the biggest single discussion I've ever seen for anything about FE7, on this site at least.

[Rodykitty]

I think that whatever the outcome, a decision should be made regarding Merlinus. This discussion has been going on for more than ten pages, and I don't think we've gotten any further than we were at the beginning of this topic.

BB is just going to bring up the topic yet again because he feels that it's hypocritical that FE6 Merlinus exists on a tier list but not FE7 Merlinus.

I was simply commenting on someone's opinion that the Merlinus discussion is boring, by noting that it's probably been the biggest single discussion I've ever seen for anything about FE7, on this site at least.

That's because Merlinus discussion trolls people into responding. Edited April 6, 2010 by Ilyana