Wolf and Sedgar

[XxWolfxX]

This is something i've never been clear on, looking at their growths for the first time made me fall over. I read a lot of places that general is the best for both but is that really true? To me using them on wifi is like bring a Dialga to a UU battle in poke'mon. but that set aside i guess i'm just not sure what to do with something that beafy, it almost seems....unfair. thoughts?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Actually, they're not all that great for Wi-fi as they're bound to require multiple stat boosters to fix. I had Sedgar trained as a Hero in the main game but then reclassed to Berserker and gave him the STR stat booster since nobody else needed it. As Generals in Wifi, they're horrible, require the Apotrope card in play and even then, there's still Sages being a serious threat to them.

General and Hero Classes are best for them in the main game, Berserker and Horseman are their better choices for Wi-fi play but should be trained in classes that yield the growths the need most.

[riariadne]

... Honestly, couldn't you just make 1 topic for all of this?

Sedgar and Wolf as General are actually kinda bad on Wifi due to low speed cap. Sure, they can get 30 defense, but so can Paladins and they're much faster. On Single player they're a godsend, but on Wi-Fi, not nearly as much unless you use them as a Horseman or something.

Besides, a lot of Wi-Fi teams are RNG abused or whatever, so any growths that aren't 0 or terrible all around are pretty much viable.

[XxWolfxX]

... Honestly, couldn't you just make 1 topic for all of this?

Sedgar and Wolf as General are actually kinda bad on Wifi due to low speed cap. Sure, they can get 30 defense, but so can Paladins and they're much faster. On Single player they're a godsend, but on Wi-Fi, not nearly as much unless you use them as a Horseman or something.

Besides, a lot of Wi-Fi teams are RNG abused or whatever, so any growths that aren't 0 or terrible all around are pretty much viable.

Yes i suppose i could've combined wolf, sedgar, est, paola, into onto one big cluttered topic of 4-5 paragraphs that probably no one would read but i opted to the orginized route, but thanks for the suggestion.

also the only real threat to wolf/sedgar as a general that i could see is merric with a forged swarm spell and thats only because you cant see him. otherwise a pure water/barrier with gradivus can easily shrug off thoron unless crited twice then "demolish" merric on your turn assuming hes not healed by a second sage. horseman on wifi if caught of guard die a lot faster due to having access to the long bow. though i can see how a berserker/paladin would be better

but *shrugs* thx for the input.

Edited April 14, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Krad]

also the only real threat to wolf/sedgar as a general is merric with a forged swarm spell and thats only because you cant see him. otherwise a pure water/barrier with gradivus can easily shrug off thoron unless crited twice then "demolish" merric on your turn assuming hes not healed by a second sage. horseman on wifi if caught of guard die a lot faster due to having access to the long bow.

Berserker with max STR (30) + Forged Brave Axe (19) = Dead General. 19 x 4 times = 76 DMG, more than the HP cap.

Also a Sage can OHKO any General. Max Magic (30) + Forged Thoron (23) + Weapon Rank Bonus (2) = 55 ATK. 55 - 27 (Max RES for General + Pure Water) = 28. 28 x 3 (Critical) means Dead General. If he doesn't Crit, he's still doing 56 DMG (Sages have 25 SPD and Generals can't get above 21) allowing any unit to finish them off.

Also you can't forge Swarm.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Krad

[Prince of Ravens]

The general consensus is that Generals generally suck.

Wolf's and Sedgar's stats are also hard to work with because they only have so many levels and their growths are so high, their average stats are basically their only stats available to them. They're good, but they can take a whole lot of stat boosters that need to go to other people.

[XxWolfxX]

The general consensus is that Generals generally suck.

Wolf's and Sedgar's stats are also hard to work with because they only have so many levels and their growths are so high, their average stats are basically their only stats available to them. They're good, but they can take a whole lot of stat boosters that need to go to other people.

Ya.. i suppose that sums them up the best out of all of this. I personally just ignored them so i was just curious as to how to well they worked. usually when i get them i feed them to the wolves due them being prepromotes, (unless on H5 obviously). (also i know that sounds crazy but there are just others i prefer to use)

that being said i'll try wolf as a hero/horseman cuz that sounds best just because of the anti-berserker synergy.

Also the one time i ever used swarm was to get gotoh to 20, though getting it to endgame i suppose it would only make sense that you can't forge it *facepalm*

otherwise i like getting nagi

Edited April 14, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[riariadne]

Yes i suppose i could've combined wolf, sedgar, est, paola, into onto one big cluttered topic of 4-5 paragraphs that probably no one would read but i opted to the orginized route, but thanks for the suggestion.

also the only real threat to wolf/sedgar as a general that i could see is merric with a forged swarm spell and thats only because you cant see him. otherwise a pure water/barrier with gradivus can easily shrug off thoron unless crited twice then "demolish" merric on your turn assuming hes not healed by a second sage. horseman on wifi if caught of guard die a lot faster due to having access to the long bow. though i can see how a berserker/paladin would be better

but *shrugs* thx for the input.

You cloud call it Wi-Fi character topic or something. It's sort of more organized, but it's a pain to go through all of the topics instead of just one topic with all of it.

It's not defense or res that's really the problem, it's just that Generals have a terrible speed cap and if they're up against a forged Brave weapon they're kinda screwed. Plus, it doesn't help that they can't really shrug off Thoron seeing as it's probably forged and unless they reclassed they're stuck with lame resistance, even with a pure water boost. I really don't see how Horsemen aren't as good seeing as they don't get doubled nearly as much and they also have access to Longbow and can snipe stuff without being seen if it's forged.

[XxWolfxX]

You cloud call it Wi-Fi character topic or something. It's sort of more organized, but it's a pain to go through all of the topics instead of just one topic with all of it.

It's not defense or res that's really the problem, it's just that Generals have a terrible speed cap and if they're up against a forged Brave weapon they're kinda screwed. Plus, it doesn't help that they can't really shrug off Thoron seeing as it's probably forged and unless they reclassed they're stuck with lame resistance, even with a pure water boost. I really don't see how Horsemen aren't as good seeing as they don't get doubled nearly as much and they also have access to Longbow and can snipe stuff without being seen if it's forged.

is it more of a pain then reading through 5 paragraphs then responding to said paragraph as opposed to choosing fhe topic you want to respond to?

and i was under the impression only archers, hunters, and snipers could equip the longbow...

[Sylvan]

Growths mean nothing on wifi. It's their level 20/20 stats that matter. Wolf and sedgar are pre-promotes, meaning they only have 20 levels to work with, instead of 40. So even with their good growths, they don't usually catch up to other characters.

That's pretty much it.

As a side note, horsemen can't use the longbow, nor can generals and warriors.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Sylvan

[XxWolfxX]

Growths mean nothing on wifi. It's their level 20/20 stats that matter. Wolf and sedgar are pre-promotes, meaning they only have 20 levels to work with, instead of 40. So even with their good growths, they don't usually catch up to other characters.

That's pretty much it.

As a side note, horsemen can't use the longbow, nor can generals and warriors.

ya i didn't think horseman could use longbow =/ apparently hunter's can't either.

and while growths don't directly effect team, they do increase a given successful reclassing options, so in that respect growths do matter for wifi.

Edited April 14, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Windsage]

Berserker with max STR (30) + Forged Brave Axe (19) = Dead General. 19 x 4 times = 76 DMG, more than the HP cap.

Also a Sage can OHKO any General. Max Magic (30) + Forged Thoron (23) + Weapon Rank Bonus (2) = 55 ATK. 55 - 27 (Max RES for General + Pure Water) = 28. 28 x 3 (Critical) means Dead General. If he doesn't Crit, he's still doing 56 DMG (Sages have 25 SPD and Generals can't get above 21) allowing any unit to finish them off.

Also you can't forge Swarm.

Pure water can't increase res past the cap, so Sages will actually ORKO a General no matter what. Pretty much anything that can double a General has the potential to ORKO it somehow without a crit, with the exception of snipers.

[XxWolfxX]

Pure water can't increase res past the cap, so Sages will actually ORKO a General no matter what. Pretty much anything that can double a General has the potential to ORKO it somehow without a crit, with the exception of snipers.

was there really a point in reiterating that? I mean, I just got lechured by Nagra about antogonizing, yet you guys just keep repeating yourself, like a friggin broken record.

thanks for the input chief. call that a flame if you want, but its just getting really old. talk about shooting a dead horse.

edit: sorry if i sound like an ass, its just your bringing up a ppint thats been made already sage > general in wifi. duely noted, the entire topic moved on but now that you bumped with that its just going to get flooded with the same stuff over again, just let it die...

Edited April 15, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[AstraLunaSol]

Pure water can't increase res past the cap, so Sages will actually ORKO a General no matter what. Pretty much anything that can double a General has the potential to ORKO it somehow without a crit, with the exception of snipers.

One thing that is really nice however is keeping the res right at the cap for the amount of turns until it decreases. It's nice when you're 1 Res point off and you can just keep it at the cap for 7 turns without having to worry. =P

[Narga_Rocks]

was there really a point in reiterating that? I mean, I just got lechured by Nagra about antogonizing, yet you guys just keep repeating yourself, like a friggin broken record.

thanks for the input chief. call that a flame if you want, but its just getting really old. talk about shooting a dead horse.

edit: sorry if i sound like an ass, its just your bringing up a ppint thats been made already sage > general in wifi. duely noted, the entire topic moved on but now that you bumped with that its just going to get flooded with the same stuff over again, just let it die...

Going over the same points, making corrections in this case, is way different from flame-baiting. If it had just been stating more things that kill Generals then that would be one thing (since it was replying to something like 10 posts buried and with everyone accepting the issues of Generals), but pointing out that pure water does not, in fact, go over the cap is new info to this topic. In fact, since I've never played this game I find it quite shocking. Pretty sure it lets you go over the caps in most other fe games.

You might also notice that Windsage hadn't posted (at least in this topic) since Krad's comment until the post you complained about. It may even be that he wasn't online in the ~8 hours between Krad's post and his. Come online, see something you want to respond to. What's the harm in that? It may seem like he's shooting a dead horse to you, but he was actually adding something to the discussion by making the post, even if you don't like it. All of his post was new info, not just "repeating" previous statements. Even if it had been merely repeating other arguments, that's hardly antagonizing unless a person is easily antagonized. "thanks for the input chief" is on a whole 'nother level for antagonistic statements.

Basically, the discussion goes a lot nicer if you aren't trying to make people feel bad about themselves. Just ignore it if you think they are "shooting a dead horse". This may come as a shock, but his post contributed a lot more to the topic than yours did because it pointed out that pure waters can't raise res above a cap. If you have such an issue with people "reiterating", in your opinion, previous points then I must ask why they can't reiterate stuff but you can make otherwise inconsequential posts complaining about them reiterating stuff.

And so to modify your words:

"was there really a point in posting that?"

[XxWolfxX]

Going over the same points, making corrections in this case, is way different from flame-baiting. If it had just been stating more things that kill Generals then that would be one thing (since it was replying to something like 10 posts buried and with everyone accepting the issues of Generals), but pointing out that pure water does not, in fact, go over the cap is new info to this topic. In fact, since I've never played this game I find it quite shocking. Pretty sure it lets you go over the caps in most other fe games.

You might also notice that Windsage hadn't posted (at least in this topic) since Krad's comment until the post you complained about. It may even be that he wasn't online in the ~8 hours between Krad's post and his. Come online, see something you want to respond to. What's the harm in that? It may seem like he's shooting a dead horse to you, but he was actually adding something to the discussion by making the post, even if you don't like it. All of his post was new info, not just "repeating" previous statements. Even if it had been merely repeating other arguments, that's hardly antagonizing unless a person is easily antagonized. "thanks for the input chief" is on a whole 'nother level for antagonistic statements.

Basically, the discussion goes a lot nicer if you aren't trying to make people feel bad about themselves. Just ignore it if you think they are "shooting a dead horse". This may come as a shock, but his post contributed a lot more to the topic than yours did because it pointed out that pure waters can't raise res above a cap. If you have such an issue with people "reiterating", in your opinion, previous points then I must ask why they can't reiterate stuff but you can make otherwise inconsequential posts complaining about them reiterating stuff.

And so to modify your words:

"was there really a point in posting that?"

well, you know what i'm friggin sorry okay? i'm just not going to bother making threads anymore...

on virtually every thread i've made, every response i've gotten was how my idea is a bad idea, or how i'm wrong, or some other means of indirectly condensending my ideas, yes maybe i'm taking it to personally, i'm sure that not everyones out to get me. but thats just how it seems when no one supports your ideas what-so-ever.

did you guys stop and think for a second that maybe the wifi for this game was ruined because everyone uses like the same team +/- 1 or 2 characters.

so i post a few topics to get creative ideas flowing and all i get is shot down. i now see why this section of the forum had such pitiful activity.

Edited April 15, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Narga_Rocks]

on virtually every thread i've made, every response i've gotten was how my idea is a bad idea, or how i'm wrong, or some other means of indirectly condensending my ideas, yes maybe i'm taking it to personally, i'm sure that not everyones out to get me. but thats just how it seems when no one supports your ideas what-so-ever.

did you guys stop and think for a second that maybe the wifi for this game was ruined because everyone uses like the same team +/- 1 or 2 characters.

so i post a few topics to get creative ideas flowing and all i get is shot down. i now see why this section of the forum had such pitiful activity.

I'm sure you are right about the wifi thing. I can't argue that it's not worthwhile brainstorming new ideas. Applaudable, really. But the thing about brainstorming is that not all ideas are great. I'm all in favour of you coming up with stuff, and this particular forum has seen more activity in the last 2 days than in weeks. For that I thank you. But some things just don't work. I'm sure you'll hit on something that others think works if you keep shooting, though.

I understand it takes effort to come up with this stuff and you want your effort to be appreciated rather than shot down, but people aren't just going to support an idea because of the effort it took for someone to come up with the idea, though.

Anyway, maybe you should have a chat with Grandjackal. Goes by "Cait Sith" now.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showuser=941

He's one of my favourite people here because he just keeps trying. The number of times people have shot down his ideas. He has had good ones from time to time, though. The fact that he's wrong sometimes and we tell him that doesn't at all stop him from trying again (and again). and again

Ask him how he handles the rejection.

[XxWolfxX]

thx ill do just that :3

[Meteor]

As stated before, Generals aren't a good idea for Wi-Fi, but that doesn't mean Wolf/Sedgar can't use other classes.

Sedgar is the only one who's really worthwhile, though, with 2 extra levels and better Def. (Wolf's higher speed growth is inconsequential.) He'll need 5 stat boosters to hit some magic numbers, but that's really no different from anyone else if you choose not to RNG abuse.

Horseman until 0/16 reclassed to Berserker until 0/20 is probably his best route. That yields:

HP  Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
56  23  0   20  22  8   22  0

Give him 2 Str and 3 Spd boosters.

56 HP/22 Def means he can take 2 hits from a 30 Str Brave Axe.

23+4 Str means he can OHKO a max Def Horseman with a Poleax. (except those on +Def terrain, so give him the Lightsphere)

22+6 speed keeps him from being doubled by anything, and guarantees he will 4x (ORKO) Dracoknights.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Meteor

[grandjackal]

Anyway, maybe you should have a chat with Grandjackal. Goes by "Cait Sith" now.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showuser=941

He's one of my favourite people here because he just keeps trying. The number of times people have shot down his ideas. He has had good ones from time to time, though. The fact that he's wrong sometimes and we tell him that doesn't at all stop him from trying again (and again). and again

Ask him how he handles the rejection.

Oh Narga, you make me blush.