Paragon, Blossom, and Nihil

[whase]

I've tried gamble against ashera with Mia once.

if I remember correctly, her hit rate was below 50 and her crit was 0.

Mia was 20/20/20 with (almost) every stat capped, using the SS sword (forgot the name, not alondite)

[NinjaMonkey]

Mia was 20/20/20 with (almost) every stat capped, using the SS sword (forgot the name, not alondite)

Vague Katti.

Does anyone know if Nihil nullifies the er, Nullify skill?

[whase]

I guess it should, nullify is a battle skill for as far as I know

vague katti, thanks. so that's why the manni katti was in my head.

[Fayt Zelpher]

So I still wonder wheter Gamble which activates before Nihil would add crit % on an mantle enemy. Or would the added crit% be negated too?

If things in this topic up to now are to be true it would halve your accuracy and then negate all crit including the Gamble Crit.

Indeed. The only way to get a critical on a mantle enemy is via triangle attacks. Yes, they still work.

[Integrity]

Indeed. The only way to get a critical on a mantle enemy is via triangle attacks. Yes, they still work.

what.

YES.

I shall be deploying all four pegasuses in my next endgame run.

[Ether]

But wouldn't Fortune be negated by Nihil?

[Narga_Rocks]

But wouldn't Fortune be negated by Nihil?

I'd assume Fortune, like class crit bonuses, are "innate" or "passive" and thus is not blocked by nihil. Ditto nullify, actually.

[Rewjeo]

What about Parity? Since it also affects supports and terrain, might it effect the passive/innate skills?

[Interceptor]

Parity does impact the dragon tides, as far as I can remember, so that's one non-terrain/support difference between that and Nihil.

[Narga_Rocks]

Parity does impact the dragon tides, as far as I can remember, so that's one non-terrain/support difference between that and Nihil.

Yeah, Parity affects more. I think it may be harder to guess just what. It would be interesting to make a max crit forge with +10 crit from a card and see if Parity lets you have crit on mantle enemies. However, I'd assume that Mantle/Nihil/Parity/Fortune are all on the "lowest level", if you will, and nothing can cancel those. The level above that has all the other "innate" things that Nihil doesn't block but Parity does, like supports, dragon tides, that type of thing, and then the level above that you get what Nihil blocks. I could be wrong, though.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Yeah, Parity affects more. I think it may be harder to guess just what. It would be interesting to make a max crit forge with +10 crit from a card and see if Parity lets you have crit on mantle enemies. However, I'd assume that Mantle/Nihil/Parity/Fortune are all on the "lowest level", if you will, and nothing can cancel those. The level above that has all the other "innate" things that Nihil doesn't block but Parity does, like supports, dragon tides, that type of thing, and then the level above that you get what Nihil blocks. I could be wrong, though.

Also, Paragon and Blossom should be impossible to cancel as well since they don't activate until after the battle is over.

Does Parity block the Class Critical bonuses?

[Narga_Rocks]

Also, Paragon and Blossom should be impossible to cancel as well since they don't activate until after the battle is over.

Does Parity block the Class Critical bonuses?

That should be easy to determine by sticking Parity on a unit with +crit and activating it.

And yeah, Paragon and Blossom are probably not blocked by Parity. It is possible, though, considering it blocks other things. However, since they don't affect the battle itself, you could probably place Paragon and Blossom on the bottom layer.

[Anouleth]

I'd assume Fortune, like class crit bonuses, are "innate" or "passive" and thus is not blocked by nihil. Ditto nullify, actually.

I wouldn't be so sure. Nihil negates Dragonfoe (preventing the possibility of 1-rounding Dheginsea with the Arbalest, natch), so it may negate Fortune and nullify too. Obviously not class crit bonuses, Nolan and Calill presumably still face normal crit.

[Narga_Rocks]

I wouldn't be so sure. Nihil negates Dragonfoe (preventing the possibility of 1-rounding Dheginsea with the Arbalest, natch), so it may negate Fortune and nullify too. Obviously not class crit bonuses, Nolan and Calill presumably still face normal crit.

Nah, I wouldn't expect Nihil to negate fortune and nullify. Parity actually has a chance, though. The foe skills are interesting, though. They would make more sense in the "innate" or "passive" category, but Nihil blocks them. They don't activate, do they? Is there any glowing that happens, or does it just do more damage?

Well, "foe" skills are basically the exception to "Nihil doesn't touch passive abilities". I don't think there are any other exceptions, though.

Also, I think it is not possible to test if nihil blocks nullify without hacking. You could do like Goldie and have Ilyana attack Haar while he has nullify and she has nihil. But otherwise?

Plan: get sothe to Lethe in 3-6. steal nullify scroll. Equip in 3-12 or 3-13 (alternative: steal nullify in 3-12 off Kieran or Tanith or sigrun and equip in 3-13). Give Calill's nihil to soren (or use Ilyana or Heather to get the DB's nihil from Nolan to the GMs). Give soren only thunder weapons at the end of 3-11. Have Jill attack soren in 3-13.

Use Ilyana to get the 1-E Parity to the GMs. Give to soren or ilyana for 3-E and use Parity to attack Jill with thunder.

And thus both are tested. I don't think there are any nihil enemies with thunder magic or wyrmslayer or bows or other anima magic so you can't test like that. And no other enemies have nullify so you can't do that.

Oh, another way is to give nullify to Lethe/Mordecai and Beastfoe to Nolan. He can fit Beastfoe and Nihil because nihil is free. Then you can see if he has effective damage on Lethe even though she has nullify.

Parity isn't free, so you'd need to fit Parity and Beastfoe on a unit. Except Parity cancels Beastfoe and hence you'd need fire on beasts and you don't have it. Oh, sothe. sothe with Parity and beastkiller. sothe and Nolan can both attack Lethe (equipped with nullify) and see what happens.

[Kinata]

Plan: get sothe to Lethe in 3-6. steal nullify scroll. Equip in 3-12 or 3-13 (alternative: steal nullify in 3-12 off Kieran or Tanith or sigrun and equip in 3-13). Give Calill's nihil to soren (or use Ilyana or Heather to get the DB's nihil from Nolan to the GMs). Give soren only thunder weapons at the end of 3-11. Have Jill attack soren in 3-13.

Oh, another way is to give nullify to Lethe/Mordecai and Beastfoe to Nolan. He can fit Beastfoe and Nihil because nihil is free. Then you can see if he has effective damage on Lethe even though she has nullify.

Why don't you just give the 1-6 hammer to Nolan and Nullify to Gatrie in 3-7 or 3-E?

[Narga_Rocks]

Why don't you just give the 1-6 hammer to Nolan and Nullify to Gatrie in 3-7 or 3-E?

Blind spot? Yeah, that works. Actually, 3-13 might be easier for that goal. (Tier 2 or 3) Jill can take Parity and you can do trades with the hammer to see if Parity does anything in case Nihil doesn't. All you have to do is clear the Laguz and wait till turn 12. I think they (Gatrie and Rhys and Shinon) show up at the end of turn 11. The others at the end of turn 10. Simple enough. Jill has Canto, though, so maybe start out with her having the hammer and use parity then pull a canto afterwards. Also, it isn't as if Jill would actually ever use parity in 3-7 or 3-E so you have to do this while controlling the DB to test both.

[Aether7]

So in summary, these are the skills that Nihil does not cancel:

Shove

Canto

Critical+ (Class skills)

Steal

Smite

Sacrifice

Nihil

Guard

Shade

Wildheart

Imbue

Savior

Celerity

Discipline

Pass

Gamble (Accuracy reduction only?)

Paragon

Parity

Renewal

Flourish ?

Blossom

Provoke

Miracle ?

Mercy ?

Nullify

Daunt

Formshift

Blessing

Boon

Galdrar

Glare ?

Insight

Vigilance ?

Blood tide

White pool

Night tide

Stillness

Mantle

That's a lot that Nihil does not do. Did I miss anything?

[Narga_Rocks]

So in summary, these are the skills that Nihil does not cancel:

Gamble (Accuracy reduction only?)

Ike with killer using gamble against BK. Check it out. It will probably give a crit rate. Mantle comes with Fortune and 2x 0% = 0% so Dheg and seph and auras and ashera aren't really a good way to test whether or not nihil cancels gamble.

No idea on mercy and flourish but those should be simple enough to test. Elincia can KO auras pretty easily. Flourish can be tested on anything with nihil, really. Glare is outside battle so I can't imagine it would get blocked. You just can't really test it on anything. I'd think if it never works on the mantle users it doesn't necessarily mean that nihil is what is blocking it. Could be a boss code or some other aspect of mantle.

[Aether7]

Ike with killer using gamble against BK. Check it out. It will probably give a crit rate.

It might be a situation where it displays a crit rate but does not activate during combat. Something to test out though.

Glare is outside battle so I can't imagine it would get blocked. You just can't really test it on anything. I'd think if it never works on the mantle users it doesn't necessarily mean that nihil is what is blocking it. Could be a boss code or some other aspect of mantle.

Ok, now I really want to see Ashera or Dheg turned to stone!! (Not sure how I will kill them afterwords, but I want to see that)

[Narga_Rocks]

Ok, now I really want to see Ashera or Dheg turned to stone!! (Not sure how I will kill them afterwords, but I want to see that)

I highly doubt it would work, though. I'm sure it simply wouldn't work on certain enemies. But I would think that if you try to Glare them you wouldn't see the enemy activate Nihil at all because it shouldn't be nihil that does the protecting.

[Interceptor]

Well, Glare doesn't work on Jarod, that ought to tell you all that you need to know.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, Glare doesn't work on Jarod, that ought to tell you all that you need to know.

And since he lacks Nihil that would indicate it's some boss thing. Which is odd because some bosses can be slept/silenced, so I would have thought Glare would work, too. Maybe Ike in 3-13 can also be glared, though. Not that it matters considering you never get to use Nailah there.

[Aether7]

That's a bummer. Maybe it has to do with the boss being harder to kill if glare worked sense their defense would be increased. Also it lasts to the end of the chapter, and can't be undone like sleep/silence.

[Narga_Rocks]

That's a bummer. Maybe it has to do with the boss being harder to kill if glare worked sense their defense would be increased. Also it lasts to the end of the chapter, and can't be undone like sleep/silence.

But abusers would have a riot, assuming healing tiles still worked on a glared enemy. Or even non-abusers that just don't care about turncounts but want their mage to KO a boss to get exp. Glare doesn't boost res.