FE5 Tier list, AA Ranked

[Rodykitty]

That's nice. Ask as many times as you want. You're getting the cold shoulder every time, starting now.

Like I said before, all of the negative portion comes from before Xavier is recruited, and since Xavier doesn't exist at this time, he is not directly contributing to this negative.

I am fine with accepting that Xavier and his buddies are overall negatives, but I don't think it's accurate to call an entire tier full of conditional units as "negative utility", because negative utility is too broad of a term for such a specific category of units that are screwed over into non-existence rather than hampering your team while existing.

[Mekkah]

How do you plan to bosskill during warpskip if Asvel is considered negative utility?

Hicks doesn't cost you any turns to recruit, how is he negative utility?

Am I missing something about Homer? He has no significant staff rank and his combat contributions are nothing special until he's been given ample training, whereas Salem/Linoan/Karin have no real opportunity cost for their contributions through healing/flying.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Hicks doesn't cost you any turns to recruit, how is he negative utility?

Am I missing something about Homer? He has no significant staff rank and his combat contributions are nothing special until he's been given ample training, whereas Salem/Linoan/Karin have no real opportunity cost for their contributions through healing/flying.

You have to save some kid in 4x.

Resire probably.

[Dat Nick]

@ FE3 Player: That's nice.

@ Mekkah: It's more like you have to go to 4x in the first place, which the pegasus knight run skips.

And I'd question even resire, since it's pretty bleh offensively. Homer resiretanking isn't clearing chapters any faster.

As for Linoan, realize that she can also easily reach B by the time Sara joins as well.

She can get 50 WEXP in 2 chapters (one of in which the warpskip button might be pressed?) Sorry, I'm kind of doubting that.

Sara needs to be trained at some point too so if you just LOLOLOL warpskip all the chapters once Safy reaches A she isn't going to get those 2 levels you claim she can get until than this list suggests.

Then how on earth are Seiram OR Linoan getting them? This damages them even worse because they start further away from A staves.

Eyvel only exists for 4.2 chapters while Sety exists for 2. But I'd contend that Sety's contributions in the 24 and Finale is so ridiculously broken that it outweighs the 5-6 turns Eyvel can save you through what puts her apart from other characters in her first few chapters. Lol that was vague. But I think videos that I didn't make would be better proof than a theory based argument:

My main problem with your post was putting Sety above one earlygamer and not the other. It's either above or below both Eyval and Dagda, the two of them are really too close to create a gap.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Detective Badd

[Rodykitty]

@ FE3 Player: That's nice.

Cool. So I'm guessing the tier name will be changed?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Sara needs to be trained at some point too so if you just LOLOLOL warpskip all the chapters once Safy reaches A she isn't going to get those 2 levels you claim she can get until than this list suggests.

B rank staves + Elite means you can have her use nearly any staff there is and she'll get lots of EXP for it.

[Dat Nick]

What "that's nice" means is that you're being ignored.

And what Sara having Elite means is that she can finish most stuff and instant-level off of it.

[Don Draper]

And I'd question even resire, since it's pretty bleh offensively. Homer resiretanking isn't clearing chapters any faster.

Favourtism etc, but Homer is one of your most reliable units to sit on the throne in C14, getting him a ton of exp. This was elite mode, but even in normal play he'll be levelled enough to promote and pretty much accomplish anything that Aszel could do.

He's facing very low hit rates, and OHKOs back. Considering this is a unit with no training required beforehand, and is able to substitute for Azvel later, I think his position is justified.

I'm also thinking that Kein/Alva should go to bottom tier. They really have next to no opportunities to level in this type of play. Ralph needs to shoot up too, he's basically a 15/1 Havan without the training.

[Dat Nick]

Everything Asvel can do except Grafcalibur. :P

and yeah, visiting houses/distracting stuff in their join chapter seems to be about the same level of usefulness as an extra flier. And I've never understood Ralph's position to begin with. Look at all the clowns in Lower Mid he's BELOW.

Tanya

Xavier

Dalshien

Fred

Misha

Eda

Joining late-midgame with 38 hp/12 str/14 spd/9 def and a solid growth spread doesn't sound like Lower Mid to begin with. 14 build doesn't hurt either (he's 10 WEXP away from B Axes which opens up all sorts of goodies)

[Salad Utensil]

She can get 50 WEXP in 2 chapters (one of in which the warpskip button might be pressed?) Sorry, I'm kind of doubting that.

[/Quote]

Whatever a C is perfectly viable for supporting the team, I'm not seeing your point. Even if she doesn't get A until later, she will get a guarenteed B and likely A by chapter 21. Sara being able to warp a few more chapters is the only difference, Linoan gains points for helping your team longer so a tier gap isn't justified IMO.

Then how on earth are Seiram OR Linoan getting them? This damages them even worse because they start further away from A staves.

Reread my quote where I gave a perfectly valid strategy to get Sairem to A staves by chapter 15. You can't warpskip chapter 14 and its the perfect opportunity to raise Sairem's staff rank.

My main problem with your post was putting Sety above one earlygamer and not the other. It's either above or below both Eyval and Dagda, the two of them are really too close to create a gap.

They are completely different. Eyvel only exists for 4ish chapters, Dadga exists for almost the whole game.

Favourtism etc, but Homer is one of your most reliable units to sit on the throne in C14, getting him a ton of exp. This was elite mode, but even in normal play he'll be levelled enough to promote and pretty much accomplish anything that Aszel could do.

http://www.youtube.c...1CgM-9Q#t=8m02s

He's facing very low hit rates, and OHKOs back. Considering this is a unit with no training required beforehand, and is able to substitute for Azvel later, I think his position is justified.

I'm also thinking that Kein/Alva should go to bottom tier. They really have next to no opportunities to level in this type of play. Ralph needs to shoot up too, he's basically a 15/1 Havan without the training.

Its not like a lot of characters can't do the same thing. Machua and Havan for example can use ambush and slayer weapons effectively in that strategy if you have enough. Even if the hit rates were low the dude got lucky. Also its not like Homer is your only boss killer right, even if he is magical based?

B rank staves + Elite means you can have her use nearly any staff there is and she'll get lots of EXP for it

And what Sara having Elite means is that she can finish most stuff and instant-level off of it.

Where are finding the opportunities to do this when we are warp skipping every chapter possible to accomplish the goal of "minimizing turns"? In chapter 17A, you recruit Sara and you end the chapter, maybe have her use a staff or attack a dark mage and pray she doesn't die or possibly get a kill if one was attacked already. In 18 you have a chance for her to use a staff before you warp skip right? In 19 you mainly do some rescuing and its hard to complete in only 1 turn so she might gain a level. I'm sure she does get to promote at some point, though I disagree that she is THAT much more useful than Linoan to warrant a tier up. Chapter 19 is mostly just B stavers using rescue and lara. Sara's warp doesn't really come into use until chapter 20, which is a defend chapter so you can't really warp skip it. More mobility is nice there I guess, but healing is probably more important there IMO. Linoan reaches A by chapter 21 (if you use her) and has been supporting your team the whole time since chapter 15 with C and then B staves. Therefore they should be in the same tier

Edited April 27, 2010 by Brighton

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Where are finding the opportunities to do this when we are warp skipping every chapter possible to accomplish the goal of "minimizing turns"? In chapter 17A, you recruit Sara and you end the chapter, maybe have her use a staff or attack a dark mage and pray she doesn't die or possibly get a kill if one was attacked already.

Shit like that and her Silence Staff for example.

Linoan is less likely to reach A rank in staves after promotion than Sara.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Dat Nick]

Whatever a C is perfectly viable for supporting the team

Of course it's perfectly viable for supporting the team. An E Staves is perfectly viable for supporting the team. You claimed that Linoan could reach B staves around the same time as Sara in a rather short timespan. I'd like some reasoning to this.

reread my quote where I gave a perfectly valid strategy to get Salem to A staves by chapter 15. You can't warpskip chapter 14

No, you can't, but when most everything else is being speedplayed then it becomes somewhat questionable. Oh, and I couldn't help but notice this.

Give him 14 uses of C staves in chapter 14

You gave him 14 uses of staves in a 10 turn defend map. Explain yourself.

They are completely different. Eyvel only exists for 4ish chapters, Dadga exists for almost the whole game.

Oh, Dagda DOES rejoin in 8 if 8x is skipped. Missed that (because i just always go to 8x). Then yeah. In fact, Dagda definitly seems like high tier material now (and may or may not be a better bosskiller than Othin in some cases, him hammering armors seems a lot more reliable than Othin relying on Puji crits, sometimes two Puji crits)

Edited April 27, 2010 by Detective Badd

[dondon151]

They are completely different. Eyvel only exists for 4ish chapters, Dadga exists for almost the whole game.

I'm pretty sure bblade is skipping 8x, so you don't get Dagda back. He needs to clear up which gaidens are skipped in the OP.

Edited April 27, 2010 by dondon151

[Salad Utensil]

You gave him 14 uses of staves in a 10 turn defend map. Explain yourself.

Lara. Sometime you just need an extra use of physic to heal someone. Its only 4 turns too. And even if you don't let him have any of those turns, I'm not seeing how he can't get them before Sara is even recruited and promoted.

Of course it's perfectly viable for supporting the team. An E Staves is perfectly viable for supporting the team. You claimed that Linoan could reach B staves around the same time as Sara in a rather short timespan. I'd like some reasoning to this.

C is obviously much different from E due to access to mend, Reblow, Mup, Sleep, Torch, Restore, which means she never has to be endangered to contribute. Hmm...maybe she can't reach B in time if all chapters past 14 will be played in 1 turn, but obviously chapter 20 is a defend chapter and Sara still will have some trouble promoting before chapter 19 if 18 is just going to be warp skipped. I'm not saying Linoan>Sara, just saying they should be in the same tier. Also you are stuck with 3 uses of warp forever (unless you repair which costs a turn) and the chapter 17A one will burn to death at some point too unless you recruit Tina so maybe consider bringing her back to her original location, since I have a feeling I know why the SS run was discontinued.

Oh, Dagda DOES rejoin in 8 if 8x is skipped. Missed that (because i just always go to 8x). Then yeah. In fact, Dagda definitly seems like high tier material now (and may or may not be a better bosskiller than Othin in some cases, him hammering armors seems a lot more reliable than Othin relying on Puji crits, sometimes two Puji crits)

If Othin double's with Puji, it is guarenteed to crited unless the enemy has absurdly high luck or something and Othin is lvl 1 or something. Hammer has 50 hit in a 1RN game and the annoying armors are usually on fortresses or have super leadership bonuses so I'd disagreed.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Brighton

[Dat Nick]

Didn't IOS give a list of sample turns and including skipped gaidens? I guess I should add it to the OP if it was missed.

[Don Draper]

Oh, Dagda DOES rejoin in 8 if 8x is skipped. Missed that (because i just always go to 8x). Then yeah. In fact, Dagda definitly seems like high tier material now (and may or may not be a better bosskiller than Othin in some cases, him hammering armors seems a lot more reliable than Othin relying on Puji crits, sometimes two Puji crits)

Dagda is 1/100th as good a boss killer as Othin is. Othin auto criticals on the second hit of a Puji crit automatically, and him getting a crit on the first hit is much more likely then Dagda hitting with Hammer's -30 accuracy over Puji. Then Puji offers flexibility in boss killing due to its range (in case there's somebody standing in front of a boss), and Othin will have much more skill then Dagda. Dagda can't be a boss assassin to save his life.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Dat Nick]

I said in situations. Looking at 16A, Othin needs 16 str (46 hp/28 def means you need 26 atk to orko with a double crit) to ORKO Bluck. He needs to be 20/9 (or 10/14) to accomplish this, which I think is highly unlikely. Str scrolls would help, but probably not enough. You could just give him a str ring and everything would be fine, but they don't seem to exist outside of the secret shop and 24x.

I guess Othin could just use the hammer himself, which would solve that issue anyway.

EDIT: Wait, 16A is Sleuf which means its not getting WSd anyway. Either way I don't really have another example and all it really does is show that effective weapons might have to be used over Puji to ORKO certian bosses which doesn't really say anything about Dagda's ability because Othin should be able to use those weapons too.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Detective Badd

[Salad Utensil]

I said in situations. Looking at 16A, Othin needs 16 str (46 hp/28 def means you need 26 atk to orko with a double crit) to ORKO Bluck. He needs to be 20/9 (or 10/14) to accomplish this, which I think is highly unlikely. Str scrolls would help, but probably not enough. You could just give him a str ring and everything would be fine, but they don't seem to exist outside of the secret shop and 24x.

I guess Othin could just use the hammer himself, which would solve that issue anyway.

EDIT: Wait, 16A is Sleuf which means its not getting WSd anyway. Either way I don't really have another example and all it really does is show that effective weapons might have to be used over Puji to ORKO certian bosses which doesn't really say anything about Dagda's ability because Othin should be able to use those weapons too.

Actually just have Leaf take the warp staff, recruit Sleuf, re-move, kill boss Sluef warp Leaf and take the throne. http://www.youtube.com/user/rairaisword#p/u/3/lHLwD1niSHs

showed that Homeros needs to be used otherwise you are screwed since magic avoids bad hit to some extent