FE4 Gen 2 All-Subs All-A rank Tier List

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

[spoiler=the list]

Elite

Celice

Aless

Shanan

Borderline Elite

Leaf

Good

Fin(reasonably leveled upon joining)

Laylea

Oifaye

Altenna

Julia

Hawk

Mediocre

Dimna

Janne

Johan(Johalva is irrelevant if he is used)

Tristan

Linda

Femina

Mana

Johalva(makes Johan irrelevant)

Radnay

Roddleban

Asello

Amid

Sub-par

Sharlow

Daisy

Hannibal

I get to watch from Hell my brother get it on with the girl I love

Johalva (if Johan is recruited)

Johan (if Johalva is recruited)

Caveat about this Tier List

This tier list engages in retrospective analysis of characters and how well they help fulfill certain playthrough criteria, which in this case are fulfilling the ranks needed to all-A rank FE4. The order attempts to rank how much each character provides "utility" in relation to others. "Combat awesomeness" order is not necessarily reflected accurately in this list.

I also have not attempted such a run, so there's a strong speculative element in this list, especially for the mediocre tier.

Assumptions:

Leaf starts with the Pursuit Ring and whatever else Ethlin could afford. That means he has Pursuit for all of his existence.

Celice starts with a loaded storage.

Aless gets the Thief Ring.

Fin starts with a boatload of Lances.

Julia w/ Resire(lolobvious)

Reasonably obtainable stat enhancements are to be included.

Things to iron out:

Inheritance

Leaf is one of two viable candidates for the Bargain Ring. It allows him to buy a ton of stuff for him and gives him earlier access to the Elite Ring. Shanan is his only competition for that ring. Celice has so much stuff from Sigurd that money simply cannot be an issue for him and thus has no need for the rings.

Celice and Leaf compete over a lot of other items that you want earlier than if they aren't passed down or that are lost if not passed down. Examples of the former include the Wind Sword and the Knight Ring and Defender Sword fall into the latter category.

Leaf also has dibs on the Skill, Magic, and Barrier Rings, but the Magic and Skill Rings are droppable items from Liza and Jabarro, respectively, and the subs could use the extra revenue.

After Leaf has his time in the sun with the Pursuit Ring, there are plenty of guys(and one gal) who a both good at combat and need the boost in offense Pursuit provides. Johan, Femina, and Tristan all fit this profile. Amid and Linda could use it, but their contribution would still be much smaller than the aforementioned three due to their lack of move.

LINDA is ABOVE Femina

Edited May 17, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[Mekkah]

Is it assumed Gen 1 is completed efficiently/with regard to ranks? Because it's like impossible to get Dew to the Wind Sword in Ch3 if you're playing low on turns.

Can't comment on much else because ranked (particularly EXP rank) is silly.

[Mousefire]

How could Julia get resire if you recruit Johan?

[Fia]

How could Julia get resire if you recruit Johan?

You can do that. Just let the enemies take over Isaac castle.

As long as you are NOT conquering Sophara before Isaac, you can get both Rezire and Johan.

[BBM]

Recruiting Johan means the guy guarding his castle becomes a green unit, which means the Axe Knights + the Great Knight sent from the main castle will seize Johan's castle.

Johalva, however, is not on the list.

Also, I'd say that Linda > anything Asaello can do. She has Elite + Wrath, IIRC, so she can snipe from behind lines, and OHKO. Asaello has... a guaranteed ORKO in Wyvern land once a turn. That's about it; I'm pretty sure that he stops ORKOing in Chapter 10 and F.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Gen 1 is completed with regards to ranks. Wind Sword takes about ten turns or whatever. If you go 13/32/37/32/38/26 in the first 3 chapters and Prologue and 35/50/32/32/32/35 in gen 2, that is 178 turns burned in gen 1 and 216 burned in gen. 2. You would have a 6 turn buffer.

I forgot to mention conquering Sophara is being skipped because it's a really useless waste of time.

Recruiting Johan means the guy guarding his castle becomes a green unit, which means the Axe Knights + the Great Knight sent from the main castle will seize Johan's castle.

Johalva, however, is not on the list.

Also, I'd say that Linda > anything Asaello can do. She has Elite + Wrath, IIRC, so she can snipe from behind lines, and OHKO. Asaello has... a guaranteed ORKO in Wyvern land once a turn. That's about it; I'm pretty sure that he stops ORKOing in Chapter 10 and F.

Well, address the following:

Linda's inferior move.

Linda's nonexistent durability if one is to assume one lets her die in the arena so she can UNLEASH THE FURY, so to speak. She's not going to be avoiding things reliably at all with her sub-20 avoid, so she is also reduced to "one-and-done" combat as well.

Both of them make a large contribution to the EXP rank, so that is essentially a draw.

A separate list can be made for Johalva. You can put them in the same list, but one is always going to contribute nothing to the team if you choose the other one. Basically, a "nonexistent for playthrough" tier would need to be created and then folks argue which one of the two should be in there. I'm not totally closed to the thought, though.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[Bryan]

Gen 1 is completed with regards to ranks. Wind Sword takes about ten turns or whatever. If you go 13/32/37/32/38/26 in the first 3 chapters and Prologue and 35/50/32/32/32/35 in gen 2, that is 178 turns burned in gen 1 and 216 burned in gen. 2. You would have a 6 turn buffer.

I forgot to mention conquering Sophara is being skipped because it's a really useless waste of time.

Well, address the following:

Linda's inferior move.

Linda's nonexistent durability if one is to assume one lets her die in the arena so she can UNLEASH THE FURY, so to speak. She's not going to be avoiding things reliably at all with her sub-20 avoid, so she is also reduced to "one-and-done" combat as well.

Both of them make a large contribution to the EXP rank, so that is essentially a draw.

A separate list can be made for Johalva. You can put them in the same list, but one is always going to contribute nothing to the team if you choose the other one. Basically, a "nonexistent for playthrough" tier would need to be created and then folks argue which one of the two should be in there. I'm not totally closed to the thought, though.

Johan and Johovala both have minor holy blood, which is better than nothing.

[BBM]

Gen 1 is completed with regards to ranks. Wind Sword takes about ten turns or whatever. If you go 13/32/37/32/38/26 in the first 3 chapters and Prologue and 35/50/32/32/32/35 in gen 2, that is 178 turns burned in gen 1 and 216 burned in gen. 2. You would have a 6 turn buffer.

I forgot to mention conquering Sophara is being skipped because it's a really useless waste of time.

Well, address the following:

Linda's inferior move.

Linda's nonexistent durability if one is to assume one lets her die in the arena so she can UNLEASH THE FURY, so to speak. She's not going to be avoiding things reliably at all with her sub-20 avoid, so she is also reduced to "one-and-done" combat as well.

Both of them make a large contribution to the EXP rank, so that is essentially a draw.

A separate list can be made for Johalva. You can put them in the same list, but one is always going to contribute nothing to the team if you choose the other one. Basically, a "nonexistent for playthrough" tier would need to be created and then folks argue which one of the two should be in there. I'm not totally closed to the thought, though.

The difference is, Linda actually OHKOs until the end of the game. I'm pretty sure Asaello stops being able to ORKO consistently after leaving Thracia. Linda with Tron and half HP OHKOs nearly every non-boss enemy, IIRC. Aside from Asaello in Thracia and Hawk, she's the only sub who can do so with that success rate. And how the hell is Asaello making as much of a contribution to the EXP rank as Linda? Linda has Elite, so she gains double experience, and can thus gets to 30 quicker than him. Then, Asaello comes 6 levels higher, which means 600 less even if they both hit 30. EXP is a win for Linda. I'm not seeing the one movement make that much of a difference for Tactics, especially as they're both ranged attackers anyways, and when Linda promotes, she'll get 6 movement as well. Not to mention, she comes one chapter earlier. The only real thing Asaello has over her is the ability to take a hit before dying. But since he shouldn't be getting attacked, it doesn't mean much.

I'd say Linda > Swordfighters too. Under the mounties and healers. No one should be above her only for combat reasons other than Hawk, and he's got other stuff going for him too.

I would say either have one of them or neither. Putting one in there is stupid.

Edited May 16, 2010 by BigBangMeteor

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

The difference is, Linda actually OHKOs until the end of the game. I'm pretty sure Asaello stops being able to ORKO consistently after leaving Thracia. Linda with Tron and half HP OHKOs nearly every non-boss enemy, IIRC. Aside from Asaello in Thracia and Hawk, she's the only sub who can do so with that success rate. And how the hell is Asaello making as much of a contribution to the EXP rank as Linda? Linda has Elite, so she gains double experience, and can thus gets to 30 quicker than him. Then, Asaello comes 6 levels higher, which means 600 less even if they both hit 30. EXP is a win for Linda. I'm not seeing the one movement make that much of a difference for Tactics, especially as they're both ranged attackers anyways, and when Linda promotes, she'll get 6 movement as well. Not to mention, she comes one chapter earlier. The only real thing Asaello has over her is the ability to take a hit before dying. But since he shouldn't be getting attacked, it doesn't mean much.

I'd say Linda > Swordfighters too. Under the mounties and healers. No one should be above her only for combat reasons other than Hawk, and he's got other stuff going for him too.

I will point out that it is the number of level-ups that is counted, not the amount of EXP. So, the extra 34 EXP of a unit at level 29 won't count towards anything.

Most the enemies are arranged in such a manner that Linda cannot safely attack without being countered if one is to assume her having Wrath. Chapter 8 is her first shot at real action, and all the armies have powerful ranged attackers that WILL finish her if not protected. Muhammad's army has a Lance Armor being backed up by a Bow Armor and male Thunder Mage. Ovo's army has Lance Knights and even the freaking Troubadors have Slim Swords. Then Blume and his army has Thunderstorm. Linda only has around 14ish evade assuming that she is in the aforementioned level range. Basically, she can only handle one enemy attack to drop her into Wrath range and not much else. For all of her early join time, she sure isn't going to do much because she's like glass at that juncture in the game. She may have 2 or 3 kills on that Tron tome at best by the time Asaello joins, and there is no Libro or Reserve to bail her out until Chapter 9.

Once Elwind becomes available, then she becomes slightly more evasive with around 40 avoid on average, but nothing to be particularly confident about as Celice is probably far, far away doing some business seizing a castle and the only other hit and avoid bonus provider is a fragile dancer. If you want Wrath, the normal "toss her into the battle and hope she lives" method likely to fail as the armies are usually arranged in a manner where two units will gang up on your unit. The only other plausible method of getting Wrath activated is to toss her in the arena and let her die so that she is left with 1 HP, which, in essence, makes her have no durability. Without Wrath, her offense falter by the wayside, with only Continue providing hope for doubling, and only after she promotes.

Basically it actually takes to two(or more) units to achieve a successful kill with Linda more often than not. While Linda can ORKO stuff, she can't do it without crapping the combat rank, which is measured by character battle losses, at the same time unless there's a healer and other more durable units to help her survive the enemy phase, and Libro and Reserve aren't available until Ch. 9, and the latter commands a hefty price tag for Mana.

Basically, I'm not seeing how the powerful yet sporadic combat that Linda provides is supposed to trump the more reliable damage from the mediocre Pursuit-bearing foot units. Also, while very much debatable, Radnay, Roddleban, and Asaello can claim a Hero Weapon to use. She does have an edge over the three in a different area though, and that will be the primary reason she'll move up.

I would say either have one of them or neither. Putting one in there is stupid.

Ok, I'll include Johalva, but I'll also implement the "nonexistence" tier.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Sidney Crysby

[BBM]

Asaello can get the Killer Bow. Dimna gets the Hero Bow, because he has a horse. And the Hero Sword, again, goes to the mountie, Tristan.

Sure, the ranged guys will finish her. But they have to attack her first. She just picks off one of the last units in a mob, and OHKOs them, while your other subs can't ORKO for shit, aside from the bow guys in Thracia. You're not dropping Asaello into the mob either. He might be more durable, but he's no tank either. Also, yes, letting her lose in the Arena is a good way for her to get low, but she can still, you know, kill the first few units. She might require some luck on the ones that are faster than her, but she can still get one or two kills there. And I forgot, B staves = Warp, for 120 EXP a cast. 600 EXP, 6 levels, you get the point. Linda wins in EXP.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I was referring to putting Linda on a yellow-green square in which multiple opposing units can attack her in, not sending her into a mob. Asaello may be able to take 3 hits while Linda usually can only take two from physical attackers. She's only good when there's only one or no enemy left after the battle or they are out of range. Asaello can at least take 2 or 3 physical hits and 1 magical hit and can walk around with full HP so Fenrir just kills him at the most inopportune time.

And "the first few" units she faces are Altenna's Javelin Dragon Riders in chapter 9, a collection of Dark Mages, Snipers, and Forrests along with a Dark Bishop blasting Fenrir in chapter 10, and Dark Mages with Sleep in the Epilogue. I can see Linda mopping up a Dragon Knight or a Sleep casting Dark Mage, but not the first Ch. 10 army. Then again, she's already at level 30 in Epilouge, so the Dark Mage kills would be going to someone who really needs the experience.

The Swordfighters have access to the Armor Cutter and Wing Clipper if they really needed to OHKO, aka the "weaken with some strong dude to near death levels" did not get a sufficient number of enemies.

I also will point out that Asaello activating Charge or Critical results in a OHKO.

Experience gains caps at 100 in the game.

I'm moving her up above Asaello anyway because of her healing utility and because Elite makes it easy on the money for her, so this discussion has been fruitful. Talk about having a "Duh!" moment.

I'm still interested in seeing where this combat debate between Asaello and Linda goes and seeing if I'm just talking out of my ass once I do a real run.

[Renall]

I'm not sure Radnay beats Roddlevan. While pretty much any given Lakche beats her brother, I'm not convinced the same applies to the subs, to wit:

• The difference in their stats is incredibly miniscule (2-3 points here and there at max level) other than RES, and neither is surviving magic.
  
• Roddlevan has better bases (admittedly by only a point or two here and there).
  
• Both promote to Forrest (unlike Lakche). So no free Continue for either.
  
• Roddlevan has Ambush. A chance to not eat a counter is better than no chance. I will grant that the circumstances under which Roddlevan is KOing comfortably enough to avoid taking a counter himself are nowhere near as easy to arrange as they are with Aira's kids, but that's why the sub sword kids are godawful.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I'm not sure Radnay beats Roddlevan. While pretty much any given Lakche beats her brother, I'm not convinced the same applies to the subs, to wit:

• The difference in their stats is incredibly miniscule (2-3 points here and there at max level) other than RES, and neither is surviving magic.
  
• Roddlevan has better bases (admittedly by only a point or two here and there).
  
• Both promote to Forrest (unlike Lakche). So no free Continue for either.
  
• Roddlevan has Ambush. A chance to not eat a counter is better than no chance. I will grant that the circumstances under which Roddlevan is KOing comfortably enough to avoid taking a counter himself are nowhere near as easy to arrange as they are with Aira's kids, but that's why the sub sword kids are godawful.

Indeed, they're almost equal enough that I'm tempted to put an = sign for them.