Top 5

[Narga_Rocks]

Boyd capping speed is not far fetched at all its not far fetched one bit. and darn it i said P3? i meant P4 sorry.

The point is, some people including myself like having a character like boyd because he's fun to use, and this is opion based so people like myself aren't saying that boyd is always better than gatrie or haar, i think gatrie is a hell of alot better but boyd doesnt suck sack like alot of people say, thats all im trying to get across here. and i dont find training him to be a hassle or cost me extra turns, but what about one thing no one has mentioned, boyd can Triangle Attack. This gives him an advantage not many other characters have.(critical is one hit with boyd....)

Um, we put Boyd in upper mid. someone even posted the list in this topic for you. That's not saying "Boyd sucks sack". That's saying "Boyd's a decent character but there are a lot of GMs (and other units) that are better". It just so happens that there are more than 5 units capable of using axes in second tier that are above him on that list.

What's with all the strawmen today, though, seriously.

It's only a significant advantage if he goes Tibarn's route, really. Also, the triangle attack isn't much help for Boyd seeing as he HAS to wield a crossbow to use it, and... Crossbows aren't much of anything special unless they're getting effective damage or are used for disarming purposes.

Well, pegs are fast enough that only Ike, Neph, Mia, and Nailah are likely to double them (Ike requires good bexp use in part 3 and Neph has 29 coming out of 2nd tier so she needs 2 or 3 levels). Boyd can OHKO. There are a few in 4-1. I think there are a couple in 4-2?

Edited June 16, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Shadow Mir]

Well, pegs are fast enough that only Ike, Neph, Mia, and Nailah are likely to double them (Ike requires good bexp use in part 3 and Neph has 29 coming out of 2nd tier so she needs 2 or 3 levels). Boyd can OHKO. There are a few in 4-1. I think there are a couple in 4-2?

Just how many are there in 4-1 anyway? Because I know for a fact there aren't very many in 4-2 (only 4). Though the chance that Boyd gets to them if he goes to 4-2 is iffy, seeing as Superhawkman is going to be flying around pwning whatever he sees. Also, just how durable are pegasi anyhow?

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Narga_Rocks]

Just how many are there in 4-1 anyway? Because I know for a fact there aren't very many in 4-2 (only 4). Though the chance that Boyd gets to them if he goes to 4-2 is iffy, seeing as Superhawkman is going to be flying around pwning whatever he sees. Also, just how durable are pegasi anyhow?

There are apparently 3 falcos in 4-1 + 1 on turn 5 and 1 on turn 7 (you'll probably never meet this one, though). 4 falcos.

27 as, putting them in "you ain't doublin' this ever" category for most units. 41 hp, 20 def, 22 res. Nobody is getting 61 mt at this point without effective weapons. Urvan and silver forges don't exist yet, so only max str Boyd with an A water/dark/fire support and a steel poleax is pulling 61 mt. Aside from him? Obviously shinon can wield a bowgun to OHKO.

As for magic, Rexcalibur is worth 39 mt so to reach 63 soren only needs 24 magic (easy). But it takes time to get from s to ss so he's likely using Tornado or a forged wind. 27 mt or 30 mt. Meaning he needs at least 33 magic to pull this off. Well, 31 magic and an A support. 30 if he gets fire/water/dark. He begins tier 3 with 29. Also, Tornado probably qualifies under "hookers and blow" for worthwhile purchases. (Interceptor has said in the past that you don't have money issues in FE RD as long as you don't spend it on hookers and blow) Tornado is only available in 3-13.

A wind forge is likely not even in existence. There's probably a thunder forge from part 1 than soren has been burning on wyverns in part 3, and then there is a fire forge (possibly tormod's, maybe not) that soren would be using in part 3 for him more serious attacks. Even if it does exist, that's only 27 mt, so soren needs 36 to OHKO falcos.

All that said, what it means is that unless you double (or your name is rolf/shinon/boyd), you ain't killin' any falcos in one round without proc'ing something.

Well, I suppose Oscar can pick up a steel bow forge or something. Base C bows in tier 3. max mt forge gives 45 mt, so Oscar needs just 16 str (less than his base) to OHKO.

[Shadow Mir]

There are apparently 3 falcos in 4-1 + 1 on turn 5 and 1 on turn 7 (you'll probably never meet this one, though). 4 falcos.

27 as, putting them in "you ain't doublin' this ever" category for most units. 41 hp, 20 def, 22 res. Nobody is getting 61 mt at this point without effective weapons. Urvan and silver forges don't exist yet, so only max str Boyd with an A water/dark/fire support and a steel poleax is pulling 61 mt. Aside from him? Obviously shinon can wield a bowgun to OHKO.

As for magic, Rexcalibur is worth 39 mt so to reach 63 soren only needs 24 magic (easy). But it takes time to get from s to ss so he's likely using Tornado or a forged wind. 27 mt or 30 mt. Meaning he needs at least 33 magic to pull this off. Well, 31 magic and an A support. 30 if he gets fire/water/dark. He begins tier 3 with 29. Also, Tornado probably qualifies under "hookers and blow" for worthwhile purchases. (Interceptor has said in the past that you don't have money issues in FE RD as long as you don't spend it on hookers and blow) Tornado is only available in 3-13.

A wind forge is likely not even in existence. There's probably a thunder forge from part 1 than soren has been burning on wyverns in part 3, and then there is a fire forge (possibly tormod's, maybe not) that soren would be using in part 3 for him more serious attacks. Even if it does exist, that's only 27 mt, so soren needs 36 to OHKO falcos.

All that said, what it means is that unless you double (or your name is rolf/shinon/boyd), you ain't killin' any falcos in one round without proc'ing something.

Well, I suppose Oscar can pick up a steel bow forge or something. Base C bows in tier 3. max mt forge gives 45 mt, so Oscar needs just 16 str (less than his base) to OHKO.

27 AS? Whoa. 41 LP, 20 def, and 22 res? Zoinks! Also, are you sure you didn't mean "silver poleax" when you said steel? Because a Steel Poleax only has 15 Mt.

Speaking of "hookers and blow"... Longbows are even worse - outright ripoffs. But man oh man... Pegasi are quite durable in RD it seems - a far cry from the GBA games where taking them out was as easy as pie.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Narga_Rocks]

27 AS? Whoa. 41 LP, 20 def, and 22 res? Zoinks! Also, are you sure you didn't mean "silver poleax" when you said steel? Because a Steel Poleax only has 15 Mt.

yeah, I mean silver. 40 + 3 + 18 = 61. Oops on saying steel, but I was thinking silver. Thanks for the clear up.

Speaking of "hookers and blow"... Longbows are even worse - outright ripoffs. But man oh man... Pegasi are quite durable in RD it seems - a far cry from the GBA games where taking them out was as easy as pie.

They aren't weighed down in RD. That's the difference. In GBA almost anyone can double. How many people actually OHKO the things in the GBA games? Well, probably more than none like RD, but not everyone. They just all happen to double and 2HKO. As you can tell by their stats in RD, nearly anyone should be able to 2HKO since it only takes 41 mt.

[Shadow Mir]

yeah, I mean silver. 40 + 3 + 18 = 61. Oops on saying steel, but I was thinking silver. Thanks for the clear up.

They aren't weighed down in RD. That's the difference. In GBA almost anyone can double. How many people actually OHKO the things in the GBA games? Well, probably more than none like RD, but not everyone. They just all happen to double and 2HKO. As you can tell by their stats in RD, nearly anyone should be able to 2HKO since it only takes 41 mt.

No problem.

Well, the ones in 1-6-1 are weighed down but not by the obscene amounts they were in the GBA games. As for GBA characters that can one-shot pegs... Well, I'm not sure if you're talking about falcos or pegs and falcos. Though you never saw that many falcos in FE6 or FE8.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, the ones in 1-6-1 are weighed down but not by the obscene amounts they were in the GBA games. As for GBA characters that can one-shot pegs... Well, I'm not sure if you're talking about falcos or pegs and falcos. Though you never saw that many falcos in FE6 or FE8.

Yeah, I guess fe6 was different from many of the other fe games I've played. Even in chapter 23 (24 is practically the end, for any reading that don't know) you get more unpromoted than promoted for the wyverns. 4 to 1 ratio, actually. In this game, I don't think you'll find any tier 1s or (pseudo) tier3s in the GM part 3. You get some tier 1s in the DB and CRK parts, but not the GMs. And there are no tier 2s in part 4, period. Though (sp) guys are more like tier 2.5 if anything.

[Anouleth]

Why do people care about Boyd being on lots of lists? This is a topic to talk about favourite characters...

I'm not seeing how the Tornado tome is in 'hookers and blow' territory. This is the DB we're talking about, they can afford a 2800 gold cost. Interceptor had over 10000 gold at the end of Part 3 with the DB, and we certainly don't need to worry about funds in Part 4.

Axes

1. Silver Poleaxe

2. Tarvos

3. Urvan

4. Tomahawk

5. Iron Poleaxe

Lances

1. Wishblade

2. Brave Lance

3. Spear

4. Silver Lance

5. Iron Lance

Swords

1. Steel Blade <3

2. Caladbolg

3. Tempest Blade

4. Silver Blade

5. Ettard

Bows

1. Killer Bow

2. Arbalest

3. Silver Longbow

4. Silver Bow

5. Silencer

Knives

1. Silver Knife

2. Steel Knife

3. Iron Knife

4. Bronze Knife

5. Baselard

Tomes

1. Thani

2. Shine

3. Bolganone

4. Rexaura

5. Thoron

Staves

1. Hammerne

2. Rescue

3. Rewarp

Skills

1. Reinforce Wrath

2. Nullify

3. Colossus

4. Celerity

5. Galdrar

[RNG Princess]

Way to miss the point. Boyd's chance of capping speed in PoR is 17%.

I thought you meant his speed transfer was iffy as in useless ^_^

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm not seeing how the Tornado tome is in 'hookers and blow' territory. This is the DB we're talking about, they can afford a 2800 gold cost. Interceptor had over 10000 gold at the end of Part 3 with the DB, and we certainly don't need to worry about funds in Part 4.

Okay, how about their 79 avo?

20/4 soren (generous) has 27 skill and let's give him 19 luck due to some bexping after capping stuff.

Tornado has 80 hit.

54 + 19 + 15 + 80 = 168 hit.

Let's make 20/2 Boyd. Round up skill, down luck. 28 skill, 18 luck.

56 + 18 + 15 + 100 = 189 hit.

You may notice that even when the falco is two steps up on Boyd's bio (like, best over neutral, or neutral over worst) that Boyd still has 100% hit. And even when Boyd is worst and the falcos are best he still has 90 listed, more than soren has neutral to neutral. Oh, and Boyd's affinity guarantees that +8 hit will be an option. soren is dark, so he'd have to support a +hit affinity to get more accurate.

Boyd wins. Don't you just love bowgun's accuracy? (okay, sure, an arms scroll likely solves soren's accuracy problems and the question of whether he has enough mag, but Rexcalibur still only has 15 uses before 4-E-3. Oh, and soren starts at A. fire forge > wind forge, so soren may or may not actually reach s rank by 4-1. It's possible he could still be A and need two scrolls.)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

I said that Tornado was affordable, not that Soren was good with it (or good with anything, for that matter).

[Fenrir]

I thought you meant his speed transfer was iffy as in useless ^_^

so you are dumb(sarcasm)cause you missed the point of a pointless arguement. :D

i thought this was pretty cool idea...

Axes

1. Steel poleaxe

2. short axe

3. brave axe

4. Tarvos

5. Urvan

Lances

1. Steel greatlance

2. short spear

3. brave lance

4. killer lance

5. wishblade

Swords

1. Ragnell

2. Brave sword

3. Amiti

4. caladbolg

5. Vauge katti

Bows

1. Silencer

2. Lughnadsagh

3. brave bow

4. steel bow

5. killer bow

Knives

1. Beast killer

2. Silver knife

3. Silver dagger

4. Baselard

5. Peshkatz

Tomes

1. Thani(sadly it is)

2. Elwind

3. Rexflame

4. Elthunder

5. Rexcalibur

Staves

1. Physic

2. Mend

3. Fortify

4. Rescue

5. Heal

Skills(no masteries)

1. Adept

2. Imbue

3. Celerity

4. Resolve

5. Wrath

[Narga_Rocks]

I said that Tornado was affordable, not that Soren was good with it (or good with anything, for that matter).

True, but whether Boyd wins due to Tornado being a waste of money or wins due to bowgun making him superior to Tornado!soren, the main point is still the same. Boyd is pretty good at that job. Too bad he's only likely to meet 4 in the entire game. Also, Generals having 23 to 27 spd in 4-4 is a major problem for him.

14 Generals in 4-4.

23 spd:   1
24 spd:   3
24.5 spd: 1
25 spd:   4
26 spd:   4
27 spd:   1

28 spd just to reliably double 4 of them. 20/6 or 20/7. If you want to get 9 of them? 29 spd. 20/9.

Yeah, there's a reason we don't have him very high. (also, I should note that 19 mt is a silver forge. +3 from top supports, that's 59 mt at 20/9, so he actually can ORKO them if he doubles. It's just, he's probably not doubling. However, wing or transfer Boyd actually might get a decent number. 9 of the 14 are 2HKOd by 55 mt or less. 34 str, any A support, max mt forge, 20/4 or 20/5 and he 2HKOs. 2 more fall to 56 mt, so 35 str same conditions. All but one falls to 57 mt. 36 str, A support without extra mt, 20/7 or 20/8. A wing at 20/7 makes 30 spd and he ORKOs all but one General. Go Boyd.)

[Killer Poleax]

And that's based on Hard mode, where a lot of the units above him that would be doubling on Normal mode, don't. On Normal, Boyd's non doubling relative to them would push him lower.

I think he would be much higher on normal cause he can double much easier. I've got him to double in 3-2 in about 10 different playthroughs on normal (with speed transfer and/or speedwing) and it's really amazing how different he is compared to hard mode.

[Tables]

I think he would be much higher on normal cause he can double much easier. I've got him to double in 3-2 in about 10 different playthroughs on normal (with speed transfer and/or speedwing) and it's really amazing how different he is compared to hard mode.

On Hard, most of the axe users above him, heck, most of the units above him aren't doubling consistently. In the GMs, Ike (at first) and Mia is really about it for doubling most of the time, with Nephenee coming later. On Normal, almost everyone is doubling most of the time, except Boyd. I don't care if he doubles a lot when you give him blatant favouritism, if we're going by that, then my Titania with a speedwing and Imbue was awesome too, ORKOing everything and being basically invincible. And actually, doubling in 3-2 even with a speedwing or SPD transfer doesn't sound too likely - assuming he's about level 12, then he'd have about 22 SPD - enough to double Generals and that's about it. Hmm.

[Anouleth]

Enemy AS is lower in NM. Boyd isn't realistically going to start doubling that early and he never doubles Swordmasters, but he will double through most of Part 3 with a transfer.

Besides, NM Part 3 is a joke. I'd say it's worth putting up with Boyd just so he can rape face in Part 4.

[Narga_Rocks]

On Hard, most of the axe users above him, heck, most of the units above him aren't doubling consistently. In the GMs, Ike (at first) and Mia is really about it for doubling most of the time, with Nephenee coming later. On Normal, almost everyone is doubling most of the time, except Boyd. I don't care if he doubles a lot when you give him blatant favouritism, if we're going by that, then my Titania with a speedwing and Imbue was awesome too, ORKOing everything and being basically invincible. And actually, doubling in 3-2 even with a speedwing or SPD transfer doesn't sound too likely - assuming he's about level 12, then he'd have about 22 SPD - enough to double Generals and that's about it. Hmm.

Um, speedwing Titania isn't exactly "favouritism". It's "optimal use of resources". Imbue is debatable, but the wing is just "playing well". Maybe NM it isn't as necessary for efficiency, but on HM it is not favouritism.

[Tables]

Um, speedwing Titania isn't exactly "favouritism". It's "optimal use of resources". Imbue is debatable, but the wing is just "playing well". Maybe NM it isn't as necessary for efficiency, but on HM it is not favouritism.

That makes sense - I don't follow tier lists or resource allocation topics very much so I don't really know. Doesn't really change my point though.

[Anouleth]

Titania doesn't need a Speedwing in Normal Mode. She promotes quickly enough that she never misses it.

[Narga_Rocks]

Titania doesn't need a Speedwing in Normal Mode. She promotes quickly enough that she never misses it.

That's why I said maybe she doesn't need it, though I'd still like to point out that until promotion (5 levels away) she isn't likely to top 23 spd without boosters of some sort (either a wing or something to cap other stats for easier bexping for spd). And it could take a fair amount of time, too. Now, EM I'll give you. No need for a wing there. But NM there is still some benefit. I haven't played part 3 NM recently enough to comment on whether her wing contribution is greater than other units, though.

[Killer Poleax]

On Hard, most of the axe users above him, heck, most of the units above him aren't doubling consistently. In the GMs, Ike (at first) and Mia is really about it for doubling most of the time, with Nephenee coming later. On Normal, almost everyone is doubling most of the time, except Boyd. I don't care if he doubles a lot when you give him blatant favouritism, if we're going by that, then my Titania with a speedwing and Imbue was awesome too, ORKOing everything and being basically invincible. And actually, doubling in 3-2 even with a speedwing or SPD transfer doesn't sound too likely - assuming he's about level 12, then he'd have about 22 SPD - enough to double Generals and that's about it. Hmm.

actually the paladins and dragonmasters in 3-2 have 17 or 18 AS. the only thing he's not doubling is the swordmasters, halberdier (19 speed) and the boss (20 speed). I don't remember the sages speeds

and he can have both a speed transfer and a speedwing. yeah it's probably favouritism but it's well worth it. my point is he can double much earlier in normal mode

Edited June 18, 2010 by Killer Poleax

[Narga_Rocks]

actually the paladins and dragonmasters in 3-2 have 17 or 18 AS. the only thing he's not doubling is the swordmasters, halberdier (19 speed) and the boss (20 speed). I don't remember the sages speeds

and he can have both a speed transfer and a speedwing. yeah it's probably favouritism but it's well worth it. my point is he can double much earlier in normal mode

If he has a spd transfer then he's actually worth a speedwing and it becomes a 3 person competition for 2 wings (Haar, Titania, Boyd). Without the transfer, no wing.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Axes

1. Haar

2. Titania

3. Nolan

4. Jill

5. Boyd

Lances

1. Nephenee

2. Gatrie

3. Marcia

4. Oscar

5. Aran

Bow

1. Shinon

Swords

1. Ike I guess...

2. Zihark

3. Stefan

4. Renning

5. Black Knight

Also, try not to derail the topic with things that would be more appropriate in the tier lists.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Sykil]

It really is, at least when compared to the other SS weapons. 18 MT as opposed to 20-22, no 1-2 range, no stat bonus...All it really has is a fairly average 15 crit, which I suppose is nice for Volke on top of his base 43, but I'd rather have a bit more versatility, especially when Sothe and Heather don't have innate crit past Skl.

A tad late, but Baselard!Volke with Gamble is pretty effective. In fact, Volke with the Baselard is probably the only good use of Gamble since he can get 65+% (displayed) hit and nearly 100% crit when trained a little. Plus, I find Sothe's Str cap limiting, and Bane is a rather frustrating skill.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Sykil

[Shadow Mir]

A tad late, but Baselard!Volke with Gamble is pretty effective. In fact, Volke with the Baselard is probably the only good use of Gamble since he can get 65+% (displayed) hit and nearly 100% crit when trained a little. Plus, I find Sothe's Str cap limiting, and Bane is a rather frustrating skill.

To be honest, Gamble's pretty impractical, really. As I see it, halving my accuracy in a game where enemies actually have good stats is like robbing a police station - you just don't do it. Also, with the fact that enemy luck is actually existent in this game, good luck getting nearly 100% crit. In fact, the only thing he can feasibly get near 100% crit on is dragons, and taking them out isn't THAT difficult.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Ein Lanford