Reverse Mafia

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Tables, stop misrepping the situation. There is one post where I gave my reasoning, and most of your posts have contained something along the lines of me being aggressive, which I'm not (see SSBM, for example, where I am aggressive), as I have simply outlined my reasoning, and since I believe you made a slip, it is not something you can really defend yourself from, except with the appropriate reaction, which I have not seen. I will change my mind if I see something that warrants a change (see Proto in AW mafia), and just because you responded to my points does not change who you are (see how Bizz was just lynched).

Question is still live.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I think that... oh, I don't know... 15 hours should suffice as a hard deadline. Highest vote total gets lynched by... being impaled with the Master Sword.

[Zanarkin]

First quote:I was chatting on IRC with Snike that we were killing Core the night before he was found dead. I thought that proved I was mafia, so I though Snike would back me up.

Who needs to be modkilled, and on what grounds do you make this accusation?

I think this is what IET means.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I think this is what IET means.

Ah, I see. Well, rules are rules. So, any last words before your execution, Psychout?

[Tables]

Who needs to be modkilled, and on what grounds do you make this accusation?

First quote:

I was chatting on IRC with Snike that we were killing Core the night before he was found dead. I thought that proved I was mafia, so I though Snike would back me up.

Second quote:

If you'll notice, that post listed from most to least. Ether hadn't bothered me at that point, Ulki was fine to me, and Ninji was my partner. Snike still seemed suspicious, but I thought he could stand to wait till tomorrow once you and Raymond are gone.

Third quote:

I wanted this day over so I joined to help the majority get along. I convinced Snike to help me get rid of you, and protect himself on IRC, so I joined Weapons to get more votes.

That one.

Tables, stop misrepping the situation. There is one post where I gave my reasoning, and most of your posts have contained something along the lines of me being aggressive, which I'm not (see SSBM, for example, where I am aggressive), as I have simply outlined my reasoning, and since I believe you made a slip, it is not something you can really defend yourself from, except with the appropriate reaction, which I have not seen. I will change my mind if I see something that warrants a change (see Proto in AW mafia), and just because you responded to my points does not change who you are (see how Bizz was just lynched).

Question is still live.

...

[spoiler=Long list]

##Vote: Kleine

All Kleine's posts this game have been void of content which may help mason/cult hunt, a type of behavior mason/cult would have seeing as they are just trying to be cautious/lurk.

Also suspicious of Tables for speculating the mason powers specifically that much.

Sorry for making sense of the information in front of me. Was I right about my guesses though, WoMC ()? And actually, I wasn't very specific... I just made the suggestions that came to my head first.

I think I agree with the suspicion on Kleine, though. It's almost like he's trying to evade adding much into the game, which... I dunno, just doesn't feel right. Asides from that... eh, let's go through the list of players with my thoughts again (with a rating from 1-5 of how likely I think they are to be anti-mafia - 5 = likely mason/cult, 3 = neutral, 1 = likely mafia/traitor):

Balcerzak - Not suspicious of at all. 1

Ninji - Hmm... not sure. 3

SlayerX - Still not comfortable about him. 4

Psychout50 - Meh. 3

WoMC - He's looking fairly okay to me, right now. 2

Kleine - As mentioned above. 4

Snike - Hmm... still feel fairly neutral. 3

Raymond - I dunno... one part of me is telling me he's town, and a smaller part is seeing the scumtells. 2.5

So bearing that in mind, I think ##Vote: Kleineis good for today.

Tables, I mean why did you only speculate into the mason roles and not the cult?

No real reason, I just typed as I thought, really, and I moved from thinking the Cult had some role to the Mason having something for balance purposes, then I actually mentioned afterwards, in my psuedo thought-retcon that the text was likely about cult conversion rules, so I kinda moved it.

Basically, I typed as I thought without working out a clear direction . It gets my honest opinions down, at least, right?

I still think it's very odd the speculation was that one-sided.

##Unvote, Vote: I Eat Tables

Was there a night 0 with night actions?

And the Snike reasoning is based on alcohol. Do not support.

But I did speculate just as much about the cult...

Quote

Actually, considering it's location, the smudged out text probably refers to what happens if they recruit a mafioso or a mason. In which case, we can presume that something will happen, possibly a kill, possibly a recruit.

Your argument doesn't seem to make sense any more.

No, you speculated about the cult and masons in different areas. That does not equalize them, it indicates you know the threats differently, which is a way someone from either faction would act seeing as they know their own side has what they have.

I Eat Tables, on 24 July 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Huh. Okay, there's a few interesting things to note about this. One of them I'm not going to point out, because it hurts the traitors to tell the cult/masons.

Now, we know some things. We know a little about how the cult operates. We also know that we don't know something, which is important information in itself. My guess is the missing information pertains to some night ability, although it seems strangely placed considering that. If that's correct, then we should also guess the masons have some kind of night ability. What would be useful for them to have? Some kind of doctor role would obviously be very useful, as would a killing ability, and perhaps some kind of stalker ability, but obviously, I don't know exactly what they have.

Actually, considering it's location, the smudged out text probably refers to what happens if they recruit a mafioso or a mason. In which case, we can presume that something will happen, possibly a kill, possibly a recruit.

We're now facing one cultist and two masons, with two mafioso and four traitors left. There might only be one mason, but that's unlikely.

At the bold, first of all, role speculation is out of place. From my experience setup speculation can be either misleading or very scummy if guessed right. Secondly, this role speculation is very generic, giving roles anyone might've guessed by looking at the OP, which makes the entire statement filler. In other regular games on day 2 you do not try to guess what roles the mafia have, do you? Lastly, as I've said, you guess what roles the masons have, but do not do the same for cult, which indicates you know them differently.

Actually, that's a fairly good point. Unfortunately, it's as I said, I was just typing as I thought. Setup speculation I almost always do, and I've never really found it scummy unless someone focuses on it to the point of neglecting everything else. That post was basically analysing the information from the death scene - which meant it effectively because setup speculation, because that's the information we were given, and that's actually all I've said on the matter all game. I'll admit the role speculation was very generic, which was because of what I said before - typing as I think. There's actually now a whole lot of roles they could have, and in fact, those guesses are probably completely wrong anyway, since if they have anything at all, it's probably a traditionally mafia role, not something like a doctor, although a stalker and maybe a kill are possible.

As for the cult/mason difference, I'm really not sure what to say. I DO know more about the cult. I know this:

Quote

You are the cult leader. Every night, you may attempt to recruit one person to your faction. If your target is a traitor, that person will be converted to a cultist in the morning and will be added to this PM. *Smudged out text*

If you die and there is at least one other cultist left alive, the remaining cultists may vote to elect a new leader. If that person dies, the rest of the cult will die as well.

Your actions take place after the masons, but before the mafia. This means that if both you and the masons attempt to recruit the same person, that person will join your faction. *Smudged out text*

You win if your faction controls at least 50% of the town in the morning

Look at where the *Smudged out text* is. It's on the same line as the recruiting and actions information. It could be that Fayt didn't really think about where he put it, but that indicates primarily to me that the information is something to do with recruiting, and not a night ability. Maybe it's even both, or something. Or even saying who the mafia are. I don't know. I can keep making guesses if you want, but like in the post I made before, there's no point just going through just about everything the cult, or the masons, could have.

Any more questions? Also, you're acting strangely aggressive based on just one post.

I hardly think this is aggressive.

Everyone else, who do you think is cult/mason?

Let me stop for a second right here. Every post I've made about this was in direct reply to one of yours. At this point, you think you're not being agressive. This is the 5th post you've made, focusing on the one point. Moving on...

I'd say a pressure vote is a good idea, except you've given me no pressure to respond to asides from having voted me ¬_¬.

As for WoMC... you've constantly disagreed with my defence, and in fact, just seem to have straw manned a whole post of mine with one sentence. That's not good. In fact, your entire argument seems to be based on something I've explained... what, two, three times? I really don't know what else I can say about it, I already feel like I'm repeating my arguments.

As for me being culted/masoned... I seem to be strangely unpopular for it. I didn't want to say that before, since now I'm a likely target, but because I've pointed that out, maybe I wont be converted and AUGH, WIFOM. But either way, I know that I currently haven't been targeted (or maybe I have and there's a Shrink on some side, but either way, I haven't been converted).

I Eat Tables, on 25 July 2010 - 07:15 PM, said:

I'd say a pressure vote is a good idea, except you've given me no pressure to respond to asides from having voted me ¬_¬.

As for WoMC... you've constantly disagreed with my defence, and in fact, just seem to have straw manned a whole post of mine with one sentence. That's not good. In fact, your entire argument seems to be based on something I've explained... what, two, three times? I really don't know what else I can say about it, I already feel like I'm repeating my arguments.

As for me being culted/masoned... I seem to be strangely unpopular for it. I didn't want to say that before, since now I'm a likely target, but because I've pointed that out, maybe I wont be converted and AUGH, WIFOM. But either way, I know that I currently haven't been targeted (or maybe I have and there's a Shrink on some side, but either way, I haven't been converted).

The greatest slips are the smallest.

But there is no slip. There's just you making a mountain out of a molehill.

In fact, just to throw some (extra) WIFOM into this, if I was Cult/Mason, don't you think that I would be more careful?

You're really over-defending yourself at this point.

Here's where I get suspicious. Now, every post I've made so far, has been a direct reply to one of yours. Explain how I'm over defending myself, and how that same logic doesn't make you over-aggressive.

After that it trails off into other people's discussions and things. But tell me: Asides from the fallacy of me 'over defending' myself and the initial evidence, which as I've said before, isn't even really evidence anyway, where else is the evidence of me being scummy?

As for your most recent post... what the heck does that even mean? The 'appropriate reaction'? Is that me going 'Oh no, you've found me, I'm the cult leader, kill me quickly!' or something? I don't know how to respond to that, and I just checked SSBM. You wern't aggressive at all. You kinda voted a few different people a few times, then died. And as for Proto, he just said exactly what he'd said before, and you changed your vote like there was new evidence. Let's see if it works.

I'm still a traitor.

I bet you're totally convinced now, right? No? I wonder why not? Because your examples were flawed. You're being far more aggressive than you've ever been.

And I don't know what the question is.

[Psych]

ANo PM's or external communication allowed at any time during this game, except for the cult/masons/mafioso.

Is that a loophole for me?

Give Ninji away as well. And everyone should listen to me. >_>

[Fayt Zelpher]

Give Ninji away as well. And everyone should listen to me. >_>

Good night, Psychout.

*Psychout has been dragged down into the abyss, never to be heard from again. All that was left is this Role PM*

You are the mafioso in this game. You do not know who the traitors are in this game. However, you must work with them to eliminate the masons and cult. You win if the masons and cult are eliminated. If for some reason, only traitors are left (you, the masons, and the cult are all eliminated), you will still win the game. In addition, at night, you may jointly agree to shoot one person. Barring any sort of roleblocking or protective power, that person will be dead in the morning. If you two can't come to a conclusion on who to shoot (or to not shoot anyone), *smudged out text*'s vote takes precedence (it had to do with the RNG who was the head mafioso).

*smudged out text*

So, uh, night phase came early on account of cheating. Go do your thing, Cult/Masons/Mafia

[Zanarkin]

dang it >_> read the rules next time Psy

[Psych]

Get rid of Tables for me Ulki.

I could reveal the smudged out parts if I felt like it....

[Zanarkin]

Don't ruin the game for people. TRhere is a reason its smudged out and there is no reason you should reveal it. Don't make things harder for the mod.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Don't ruin the game for people. There is a reason its smudged out and there is no reason you should reveal it. Don't make things harder for the mod.

Thank you. :)

Psychout, consider yourself on thin ice. You're already dead. I don't think you want to also be banned from future games...

[Psych]

That was just me thinking out loud.....>_>

NINJI GO! KILL TABLES THEN RAYMOND! YOU GO TOO SNIKE!

[Fayt Zelpher]

That was just me thinking out loud.....>_>

NINJI GO! KILL TABLES THEN RAYMOND! YOU GO TOO SNIKE!

Just shut up already... Seriously.

[Tables]

He actually was mafia? . Well, at least... um... no, I got nothing good about this to say at all. We've pretty much lost now, unless the other Mafioso can pull a wonder kill on the Cult Leader, and even then, it's 4-3 and we probably have to both lynch correctly AND the mafia have to kill correctly again. We'll see, I guess.

[Fayt Zelpher]

He actually was mafia?

Who knew, right? Well, besides me and *smudged text*

Dang. I really need to write these PM's in waterproof ink next time, eh?

[Snike]

Yeah, laminate them.

Can I assume I get modkilled, as well? If so, can I at least pick my execution?

[Fayt Zelpher]

Can I assume I get modkilled, as well? If so, can I at least pick my execution?

Nah. I don't think it's necessary.

[Psych]

UNFAIR!

Thank you Tables. You damned us all.

[Snike]

You're the one who decided to randomly tell me your role. AND post it in the thread. If anyone's to blame, it's you, for your stupidity.

[Psych]

........>_>

You could have all followed and worshipped me, and we'd have ended up fine.

[Snike]

........>_>

You could have all followed and worshipped me, and we'd have ended up fine.

...

This is the Mafia, not the Cult, Psych.

@ Tables: Technically, if the mafioso shoots a mason, and a mason masons the CL, we have one clean left. But that would take a lot of luck.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Hey, I just think I'll foul up everything you think you know about this game and say this:

There's a very very good chance that this game will be over during night phase and the winner will be known.

[Snike]

That is not good. That is not good. I needs a cross. Brb.

[Ether]

Psychout you moron... *facewall*

[Tables]

I wish I could say I had regrets, but... I don't. I don't like cheating or attempts at cheating.