Draft tier list

[Integrity]

Pretending I'd had Muarim instead of Caineghis, Caineghis easily saved me 10 turns in all of 4-E, possibly more. Additionally, Muarim would have to have SS Strike to attain some of the feats Caineghis can do out of the box - and Muarim can never attain the SPD to double the big bosses in 4-E.

Assessing Muarim's contributions to Part 1 turncounts is also tricky. Muarim very very likely wasn't drafted as your only Brigadier, ergo each kill he takes is one kill Nolan/Edward/Jill/Zihark could have used for when they have to solo Part 3. Yes, Muarim *could* rambo 1-E, but so could the Black Knight, albeit with no gain rather than strike gauge gain.

Is Muarim's contributions in Late Part One > Caineghis? I don't feel qualified to make that call. Thought I'd throw my thoughts out, at any rate.

EDIT: @above: Notably, Mist's 2-range is independent of anybody else's, on account of Florete which is actually a pretty spectacular weapon. Yes, the 3-P boss drops a Crossbow, but how long are 35 uses going to last Shinon?

As for money, I transferred roughly all the money I could from the Brigade and transferred all the Knives I could from Part 2 and spent every cent I could on Steel Knives with the Silver Card and then sold it, and I still managed to run out of funds in the deployment for 3-8 and had to revert to Iron Knives.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Integrity

[Naglfar]

Augh. So much to keep track of. Let's see... Sothe above Titania above Ike. Heather above Marcia, she'll probably move again though. Skrimir above the other lions, I'm not sure about Muarim, yet. Yes, Zihark definitely belongs below Volug. Tanith above Ranulf, and I have used Brom on NM before, so he can go below the Black Knight, though perhaps above works. BK is a pain to tier. Oliver below Lehran (I picked him because I wanted to try him out...). Volke and Stefan below Renning. Current problems: Shinon vs Heather, Gatrie's movement. I think that's all. Now I'll get involved.

Shinon doesnt need to counter attack because he has enough dodge

whatwhat. How are these related in any way? There's nothing that directly covers Shinon's lack of 2 range. Dodging certainly won't kill on enemy phase.

Shinon doesn't get to kill much, still, neither does Heather. Her offence relies on Bane quite often, but at least Shinon kills what he attacks quite consistently, with access to both Silencers, the Killer Bow, and whatever else may be of note. 2-3 range means you can position him wherever you like, and effectively gives him 10 spaces of attack range, rivalling Titania & Friends. Crit and Deadeye only make his offence better. He can use Pass + Adept quite early thanks to BEXP vaulting him to third tier, and not many bosses are surviving a round of that plus Killer Bow. In fact, he could probably cede Adept to Ike or whoever and just have Pass + Celerity. On rout maps, he can take Adept back and ORKO pretty much anything on the map on any given turn. 2-3 range also helps him position himself in the edges of 2 range enemies, so in reality, his enemy phase isn't nonexistent, just a bit limited.

Then there's the case of money. Shinon with his starting inventory and the two Silencers are probably lasting all the way up until he gets the Double Bow. That's a flat 16,000G, isn't it? That is a bit expensive. Still, spread out over P3 as they are, affording them shouldn't be a problem.

As for Heather... well, I used her once but I don't remember how good she was. What are everyone's votes, right now?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Naglfar

[Zynac]

Augh. So much to keep track of. Let's see... Sothe above Titania above Ike. Heather above Marcia, she'll probably move again though. Skrimir above the other lions, I'm not sure about Muarim, yet. Yes, Zihark definitely belongs below Volug. Tanith above Ranulf, and I have used Brom on NM before, so he can go below the Black Knight, though perhaps above works. BK is a pain to tier. Oliver below Lehran (I picked him because I wanted to try him out...). Volke and Stefan below Renning. Current problems: Shinon vs Heather, Gatrie's movement. I think that's all. Now I'll get involved.

whatwhat. How are these related in any way? There's nothing that directly covers Shinon's lack of 2 range. Dodging certainly won't kill on enemy phase.

Shinon doesn't get to kill much, still, neither does Heather. Her offence relies on Bane quite often, but at least Shinon kills what he attacks quite consistently, with access to both Silencers, the Killer Bow, and whatever else may be of note. 2-3 range means you can position him wherever you like, and effectively gives him 10 spaces of attack range, rivalling Titania & Friends. Crit and Deadeye only make his offence better. He can use Pass + Adept quite early thanks to BEXP vaulting him to third tier, and not many bosses are surviving a round of that plus Killer Bow. In fact, he could probably cede Adept to Ike or whoever and just have Pass + Celerity. On rout maps, he can take Adept back and ORKO pretty much anything on the map on any given turn. 2-3 range also helps him position himself in the edges of 2 range enemies, so in reality, his enemy phase isn't nonexistent, just a bit limited.

As for Heather... well, I used her once but I don't remember how good she was. What are everyone's votes, right now?

If you notice( looking again i understand how you might miss it...man was that post disjointed...sorry bout that) i kinda realized half way through that shinon's lack of counter attack was a problem of turn count and not survivabilty. so yes you are quite right about dodging not killing enemies( wouldnt that be nice though?)

[Soren37]

Burger King should be in High or Upper Mid. His early game tanking is a god-send, and he stays fairly good until the desert, where enemies can begin to hurt him. Sure his availability is poor, but when he joins, it's in some of the toughest DB chapters, so he's necessary to accomplish a low turn count, which is the point of a draft playthrough.

If you're really worried about Gatrie's movement, you can give him Boots or Celerity. However, those would be better off on other characters, such as the herons.

I still say that Shinon > Heather. As you said, Heather has to rely on Bane to kill effectively. Shinon can pick up a bow and fire away, killing pretty much anything. Heather can find you an Ettard and steal you a Dragcoshield. After that, I can't see her doing much unless you want an Avo tank.

[Zynac]

Burger King should be in High or Upper Mid. His early game tanking is a god-send, and he stays fairly good until the desert, where enemies can begin to hurt him. Sure his availability is poor, but when he joins, it's in some of the toughest DB chapters, so he's necessary to accomplish a low turn count, which is the point of a draft playthrough.

Is there even a way to beat 1-9 without BK? also i agree and he can actually still be an unbeatable tank in the desert especially in NM cuz only mages can hurt him and they barely ever do and he recovers enough per turn hes in no danger. At the same time he isnt around much at all so if he even worth drafting? maybe as a late draft which is why hes low on the list im assuming

[Soren37]

Sure. Hack the game so Micaiah's 3rd tier with 100 SKL.

On EM some of the enemies can hurt him. I remember this clearly. Plus his movement is terrible, and Micaiah needs to talk to him before he can get anywhere.

[Zynac]

Sure. Hack the game so Micaiah's 3rd tier with 100 SKL.

On EM some of the enemies can hurt him. I remember this clearly. Plus his movement is terrible, and Micaiah needs to talk to him before he can get anywhere.

ya he can get hurt, and it does take forever to get him down there but he'll be utterly invincible( one part power one part evade) once he does...that being said, we are looking at double digit turns i believe, so not exactly some one to depend on for low turn count. I think BK's position is actually pretty acurate( and i would lean to put him lower actually but i don't see any of his neighbors as better)

[Zanarkin]

Is there even a way to beat 1-9 without BK? also i agree and he can actually still be an unbeatable tank in the desert especially in NM cuz only mages can hurt him and they barely ever do and he recovers enough per turn hes in no danger. At the same time he isnt around much at all so if he even worth drafting? maybe as a late draft which is why hes low on the list im assuming

I think i recall someone beating that chapter with micaiah only although i'm not too sure. could be my imagination.

[Integrity]

It's probably possible to solo 1-9 with Micaiah (with Resolve, maybe?), albeit slowly. On the other hand, the BK is allowed free for use in that chapter so why?

Plus, his availability is "poor"? If you draft him, you gain - count 'em - two chapters. You can deploy him in 1-E and then you get Lehran. That's it. Expanding it shows that he is available in 1-9 and 3-6 but he's forced for both and allowed for all to use. Even so, his lack of speedy movement means you aren't gaining terribly much time in 1-E over, say, an overleveled Resolve!Nolan (he will be).

"Some of the hardest DB chapters" isn't 1-E and 3-6, especially in a draft. Had I used the BK, I would have shaved two turns off of 3-6, tops. I'd have saved more if I'd gotten Edward or Aran. He's also getting no credit for any time saved in 4-3 on account of being a green unit.

Point is, BK != mid-high. Put it this way: would the eight total turns saved in 1-E and 3-6 be more than what Heather provides? Marcia? Hell, Naesala saves more turns in 4-3 ALONE than the BK ever does.

-

Anyway, I think king of Middle is fine for Heather.

[Zkirsche]

Ranulf and Lyre up, yeah, cat gauge is bad, but having no availability is even worse (pelleas) and in NM we have so much bexp it isn't even funny. Ranulf's 9 mov was a life saver in many situations in my run (well, for the chapters I've done anyway), and having an enemy phase should put him > Shinon, even with gauge.