Life vs. WoMC

[Life]

Just putting the topic up.

[Life]

So we have Canas, the devoted husband and father who dabbles in elder magic, vs. Fiora, the failure Pegasus Knight commander from Ilia. Their description alone makes me think that Canas is the better one but some people are into failures, so who knows?

Anyway, Canas is our lone Shaman in this game and quite a good one too. He joins at level 8 in Port of Badon, a full three chapters before Fiora's arrival in The Dread Isle at level 7. Now before we get into stat comparisons, I'd like to address a couple of things.

1. Canas' level lead over Fiora. Canas is perfectly capable of gaining 1.5 levels in his joining chapter (most of the pirates are about level 17) and another 1.5 by the end of The Dread Isle. Fiora will gain only 1.5 during The Dread Isle which is only 1 for our purposes. Sorry about that, sucks to be Fiora.

2. Weapon levels and Constitution. Fiora has that usual Female Peg Knight problem where her Con is stupidly low and she can't use most heavy weapons effectively. That's 5 Con in her case, meaning that she loses at least 3 AS from anything heavier than a Slim Lance. Including her starting Axereaver which weighs a whopping 11 Wt. Canas also suffers from AS penalties from his weapons but his penalty is only -1 AS with Flux, his main weapon. Luna and Nosferatu are both situational weapons while Eclipse and Fenrir probably never see the light of day. Looks like Canas has less problems in the AS department.

Speaking about weapons, let's talk about weapon levels. Canas starts with B Dark, enough for him to wield Luna and Nosferatu at base level if he was ever going to be an Exp unit. Not only that but the least damage he can do with Luna is 10 damage at base level. Imagine doing that to a lategame boss like Sonia or Limstella. For Fiora to do at least 10 damage at that stage, she needs at least 29 Atk against Sonia and 34 Atk against Limstella. Even after equipping Fiora with a Killer Lance (best weapon that base Fiora can use), she's still missing 11 Atk to at least tie Canas' damage output against these bosses. In fact, even if Fiora gets a critical hit with the Killer Lance, she still needs 5 extra Atk to best Canas at his worst. Not to mention that Luna can critical too (it only has 20 Crit against the KL's 30 but it's a guaranteed 30 damage if it sticks while Fiora needs training to even scratch Sonia).

In case the purpose of that last paragraph flew over your head, I'll summarize it for you. Canas doesn't need any training to still be effective in the end of the game when you're scraping for Exp to ensure the S Rank. Fiora does just to even the playing field. Advantage: Canas.

3. Utility. This is Canas' ability to heal after promotion against Fiora's flight. They're about even since Canas directly helps the Exp rank without even needing to fight, allowing another unit (possibly an unpromoted one) to take a kill if needed to maximize Exp while Fiora's flight indirectly helps the Tactics rating.

If we were arguing efficiency, I'd say that Fiora's ability to fly is a huge obstacle that Canas cannot overcome. But this is in regard to S Ranking HHM. And when Canas can help a rank directly via utility while Fiora helps another one indirectly for longer, I'd say that they cancel each other out in the debate of which one is better.

Based on the above points alone, I'd love to conclude that Canas > Fiora... What's this? It's not enough evidence?! Oh dear, what shall we do? Let's observe them in action, in that case. How about... Imprisoner of Magic (19x) as a comparison point?

Canas - Level 11 Shaman - B Dark
Flux: 18 Atk, 8 AS, 104 Hit, 5 Crit, 24 Avo, 8 CEva
23 HP, 6 Def, 9 Res

Fiora - Level 8 Peg Knight - C Lance
Iron Lance: 15 Atk, 10 AS, 107 Hit, 6 Crit, 26 Avo, 6 CEva
Javelin: 14 Atk, 7 AS, 92 Hit, 6 Crit, 20 Avo, 6 CEva
22 HP, 6 Def, 7 Res

This is a shitstomping right here for several reasons:

1. Canas attacks Res while Fiora attacks Def. While Fiora has 2 more AS with an Iron Lance, she also has 3 less Atk against a Def amount that is significantly higher than Res for most enemies. If a random generic enemy has 6 Def and 2 Res, Fiora does 18 damage if she doubles while Canas does 32 if he doubles. If that enemy has 5 or 6 AS, Fiora's in luck... if not for her next problem.

2. Canas has inherent 1~2 range while Fiora doesn't. If Fiora wants 1~2 range, she has to switch to the Javelin which not only knocks Fiora's Atk down by 1 but also takes her AS to below Canas'. Going back to that same enemy, Fiora can double from range for 16 damage while Canas does double that.

A shitstomping indeed.

In any case, Canas and Fiora fight and grow up in Hector's army. And then we arrive at Unfulfilled Heart (26) with these stats:

Canas - Level 19 Shaman - A Dark
Flux: 22 Atk, 11 AS, 111 Hit, 6 Crit, 32 Avo, 10 CEva
Nosferatu: 25 Atk, 5 AS, 101 Hit, 6 Crit, 20 Avo, 10 CEva (Drains)
Luna: 15 Atk, 7 AS, 126 Hit, 26 Crit, 24 Avo, 10 CEva (Attacks HP directly)
29 HP, 8 Def, 13 Res

Fiora - Level 18 Peg Knight - B Lance
Iron Lance: 19 Atk, 15 AS, 120 Hit, 9 Crit, 39 Avo, 9 CEva
Killer Lance: 22 Atk, 14 AS, 110 Hit, 39 Crit, 37 Avo, 9 CEva
Javelin: 18 Atk, 12 AS, 105 Hit, 9 Crit, 33 Avo, 9 CEva
29 HP, 8 Def, 12 Res

Now, these numbers look impressive towards Fiora, but why don't we disect them to determine the real story?

1. Nosferatu and Luna. Canas' AS appears to take a nosedive upon equipping these tomes. 5 AS gets doubled by a lot of things and 7 isn't much better. However, remember what I said about both Luna and Nosferatu being situational? Nosferatu is fantastic for tanking an enemy phase if you need Canas to (since he'll heal back about 20 or so damage at a time) or healing Canas up and not having an available healer. By attacking and healing in the same action, Canas allows other units to proceed and do their thing instead of running back to protect a weakened Canas and not killing a certain enemy that needs to die for one reason or another. Luna is fantastic for bosses too. Canas sports 26 Crit against 0 Luck enemies and if he criticals, that's 45 damage right there. Fiora needs to be attacking a guy with 7 Def or less with the Killer Lance in order to replicate those numbers.

2. Defense. Looks even, right? They tie HP and Def while Canas leads by 1 in Res. But here's the thing. They're not even. Canas has inherent 1~2 range. He can hide behind his units and snipe away with his 22 Atk. If Fiora tries doing that, she's only got 18 Atk against Def while Canas attacks Res. So as a result, her best damage comes from 1 range... which means counters by enemies. Canas' defence numbers don't really matter since dondon has proved time and time again in his 0% growth videos that 2 range is key (check out his SoS videos for proof). Fiora's actually matter since to replicate Canas' damage, she needs to be face-to-face with her enemy.

So, time goes on and both of our friends promote. They keep competing until they arrive at Victory or Death (32) with the intention of killing Nergal.

Canas - Level 9 Druid - S Dark, D Staff
Flux: 26 Atk, 18 AS, 120 Hit, 8 Crit, 48 Avo, 12 CEva
Nosferatu: 29 Atk, 12 AS, 110 Hit, 8 Crit, 36 Avo, 12 CEva (Drains)
Luna: 19 Atk, 14 AS, 135 Hit, 28 Crit, 40 Avo, 12 CEva (Attacks HP directly)
39 HP, 12 Def, 19 Res

Fiora - Level 8 Falcoknight - S Lance, D Sword
Silver Lance: 29 Atk, 19 AS, 127 Hit, 11 Crit, 50 Avo, 12 CEva
Killer Lance: 25 Atk, 20 AS, 122 Hit, 41 Crit, 52 Avo, 12 CEva
Short Spear: 24 Atk, 17 AS, 112 Hit, 11 Crit, 46 Avo, 12 CEva
Steel Sword: 23 Atk, 18 AS, 127 Hit, 11 Crit, 48 Avo, 12 CEva
40 HP, 12 Def, 19 Res

Well, these stats are almost identical. Canas loves the 4+ AS boost that he gets from promotion (3 Spd and 1 Con) while Fiora enjoys the boost in attacking power from the 2+ Str given to her. But that being said, Canas is still winning in combat. At 2 range, he beats Fiora by 2+ Atk (before the difference of Def and Res is added), 1+ AS, 8+ Hit and 2+ Avo. These might seem like marginal wins and they are... for the most part. The only important thing to note is that Canas is still beating Fiora in raw attack power. And I cannot help beating the drum about Res being lower than Def for most enemies but unfortunately, it's kinda true.

So that's where we stand. If both Canas and Fiora are trained, Canas > Fiora overall. If neither of them are trained, Canas > Fiora for lategame Exp usage. Clearly our scholar of the dark arts is much better than that failure Peg Knight commander from Ilia.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Life Admiral

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Are you finished with your opener?

[Life]

EDIT: Opener is done.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Life Admiral

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

As his name suggests, Canas is a can of ass in the shadow of Fiora, pegasus commander of Ilia. It's clear that if you compare their lives, Fiora actually went somewhere with hers while Canas has no real world sense, like how he doesn't know what a wyvern is. That ignorance is dangerous to have on the battlefield.

Onto to gameplay:

Canas joins in 17x and immediately you'll notice that he is inadequate to handle the lvl 17 wall blocking you from Fargus with 21 hp, 5 def, and 8 res. Most of those pirates have atk ranging from 23-25, which is a 2HKO on Canas, and there's also the Devil Axe pirate, who pulls a OHKO, and possibly a Killer Axe pirate, who doubles Canas. Even the Killer Bow archer (21 atk), Elfire mage (21 atk), and Nosferatu shaman (23 atk) 2HKO him, and so Canas dies in the chokepoint combo. You may say that the more efficient way to use Canas is to put him behind a tank, but eventually, that tank will need to healed, and Canas is going to have to get out of the way.

As for the other, lvl 4 pirates, most of the time, they will trade 2HKO's with Canas when you have other units like Raven, who can plow through and end up better.

0 levels for him here.

In 18, Canas still isn't gaining levels. Though there's no enemy stats for 18, since in 17, the mercs would double him, naturally they still will in 18. Shamans also work counter to the def-res gap, and Canas's res isn't fantastic either, so fighting against them will give little return. Aside from those enemies, there's the pegs, and it's too easy for Canas to get swarmed to death with little protection.

Maybe 1 level total

So then we get to Fiora's join and have a more accurate direct comparison:

Level 7 Fiora: 21 hp | 8 str | 11 skl | 13 spd | 6 lck | 6 def | 7 res | 5 con | 7 mov
Level 9 Canas: 22 hp | 10 mag | 9 skl | 8 spd | 7 lck | 5 def | 8 res | 7 con | 5 mov

Mostly, their stats look similar besides the +5 spd Fiora has, and while you may point to con, let's look at combat stats:

Fiora with Iron Lance: 15 atk | 10 AS | 105 hit | 26 avo
Slim Lance: 12 atk | 13 AS | 110 hit | 32 avo
Javelin: 14 atk | 7 AS | 90 hit | 20 avo
Axereaver: 18 atk | 7 AS | 95 hit | 20 avo (~50 with WTA)

Canas with Flux: 17 atk | 7 AS | 101 hit | 21 avo

You'll notice how Fiora has 4 weapons to work with while Canas is stuck with 1; this goes to show that Fiora has more versatility and is prepared for different situations while Canas has to work with one option to fit everything. Even later, Canas may pick up other tomes, but they either nerf his AS or are Eclipse, that he's still inflexible.

It may seem Canas's generally higher atk combined with def-res gap gives him the win, but first of all, for enemies that are not wyverns or knights the def-res gap at the time is about 2-3 and 6 for cavs. In fact, the reverse def-res gap for mages and shamans is about 4-6 and even greater for monks. Therefore, Fiora's AS lead will gradually lead to more damage output.

The chapters following Fiora's join work heavily in her favor. In 19, she can easily take her axereaver and go to work on pirate reinforcements, where her durability is helped with superior avoid. If chapter 21 is any indication, pirates will have about 75 hit, which translates to 25 displayed, 12.75 true. 1.5 levels is easy for her, while Canas doesn't have an effective way to fix durability, seeing as this is FoW with nomads who double him and pegrushes.

19x has lots of magic types and that big magic seal thing, which really rains on Canas's parade, even though there are knights to take advantage of. Fiora can gain another two levels, while at the same time, Canas has gained, like 2 levels over the course of his existence, so Fiora is starting to open up a level lead.

20 seems more in Canas's favor, with chokepoints and cavs to take advantage of def-res gap, but there are so many other units you're sending over in that cramped area (includes cavs, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Erk, Lucius, Oswin) that Canas isn't likely to see much action there. Meanwhile the middle room spawns mercs and dark mages, some of the units Fiora does best against. What really makes this chapter of note is the secret shop containing killers. Then the game becomes auto-win for Fiora.

Is Luna really that awesome for Canas?

Compare: Canas with Luna to Fiora with KL

Canas: loses 4-5 AS, +20 crit, often does less than Flux since enemy res is usually below 7, worth 5250

Fiora: loses 3-4 AS, +30 crit, same mt as steel, worth 1200 and also buyable

Is this even close? On top of this, seeing as Fiora has +5 speed on Canas at base and +15% growth, if we give both 10 levels, Fiora will have a +7.5 AS lead, which means that she's practically doubling what Canas is getting doubled by. At this point, killer lance chance to crit alone becomes 51%. Killer lance wtfrapes Luna.

Since this opener is kind of awkwardly written between week breaks and in half-response to your opener, I'll go ahead and deny Nosferatu as a viable option for Canas.

Nosferatu drops Canas's AS by 6-7, which means that even after the nice +4 AS boost from promotion, he's still sporting a whopping 9 AS at 20/1, which wouldn't even double most enemies in chapter 12. Assuming Canas is level 16 in 24 Linus, going Nosferatu means 4 AS, which is doubled by most everything on land, and since he gets 2HKO'd by most of the wyverns/other non-doublers, one miss and he's still screwed. You could say promotion could pad his AS, but even that wouldn't stop the promoted enemies from doubling him and in return for coping against the non-promoted enemies, he kills exp rank.

Eclipse is lol. Fenrir is more lol. You're not using Gespenst so basically, Canas is stuck with Flux for life.

Back to how the chapters work in Fiora's favor, I'll fast forward through some of the highlights.

21 - Monks are pretty hilarious for anyone not named Canas. Oh wait. Also Fiora is the master village visiter here, freeing up your Ravens and Guys to actually fight since around this time, deployment spots are in low supply.

22 - Nothing major to either side. I'll give Canas wyverns and knights, but it's easy for Fiora to WTC and there's a magic rush near the bottom, perfect for Fiora's physical/high speed/high res combo.

23 - Despite magic walking, Fiora still wins mobility due to ignore cliffs and circulating enemies. She's also essential here for tossing the thieves around to get all those goods. This chapter alone ensures Fiora wins funds.

23x - This map was made for Fiora. While Canas is useless in the magic seal, hits res in a res heavy map, and gets doubled if he tries Luna, Fiora packs good res augmented by Barrier/Pure Water and killer lance doubling against the better side of the def-res gap for exactly what you need in this map. Killing 4 promoted units with Fiora should be easy, and this will net her about 3 levels. Feeding Fiora more kills is also a good idea for the exp rank.

24 - Assuming Linus, Fiora has WTA over all the mercs, can go Axereaver against the pirates, and visits villages like a pro.

25 - The strategy for this map is pretty simple; send your units where they perform best. This means wherever Canas goes, he is simply outperformed by axes/high def through the cavs, swords in the lower left, and monkfest is simply not an option. It does work for Fiora though, where she's pretty much invincible and one rounds everything with just a javelin. Flight and high res here combine for a boost to the exp and tactics ratings.

26 - Flight allows Fiora to grab the Hammerne and swing all over the place to where the action is, though Canas does hit wyvern res.

27 - As these maps get larger, higher mov becomes more important, and is especially noticeable with terrain ignore. 5 starring tactics is not a joke, and even if you can 5 star it comfortably with lesser move units, the extra turns cut from better mobility can be converted into exp.

28 - Zephiel demands high movement. By the way, I think you can totally ignore Maxime in this map, and he gives crappy exp for some reason, so that's random.

28x - This is obvious. Flight saves like 10 turns here.

29 - Holy shit 23 AS valks. Good thing Fiora also has awesome AS, has awesome res, can go mostly anywhere, and gets the good end of the def-res gap. Basically, the only thing stopping her are those bullshit 29 mag druids. Meanwhile Canas is bogged down by what's in front of him, though high res applies for him too.

30 - Probably not for either.

31 - Maybe Canas wins here.

31x - Obviously, Fiora has a crushing win here.

32 - All the terrain works in Fiora's favor. In addition, this map is heavily reliant on combat skills, which I'll look into later.

32x - If you're going, magic seal.

Final - I'll give Luna its props here, but Fiora is still cool against top left and lower left rooms.

That was longer than expected. Now that I'm done with how the chapters work in Fiora's favor, I'll do some combat comparisons.

Linus 24

Fiora level 18 C Florina
29 hp | 12 str | 17.5 skl | 18.5 spd | 9 lck | 8 def | 12.5 res
With KL: 23 atk | 14.5 AS | 115 hit | 44 crit | 38 avo
With Iron: 20 atk | 15.5 AS | 125 hit | 14 crit | 40 avo
With Javelin: 19 atk | 12.5 AS | 110 hit | 14 crit | 34 avo
With Axereaver: 23 atk | 12.5 AS | 115 hit | 19 crit | 34 avo

Canas level 16
27 hp | 13.5 mag | 12 skl | 11 spd | 9 lck | 7 def | 11.5 res
With Flux: 20.5 atk | 10 AS | 109 hit | 6 crit | 29 avo
With Luna: 13.5 atk | 6 AS | 124 hit | 26 crit | 21 avo

The first thing that I notice is that Fiora has at least a 44% chance to instantly kill any unpromoted enemy, since 23 atk catches the 33 hp/12 def wyverns and seeing as also she doubles them, her crit chance goes up to 68.64%. Meanwhile, Canas can double and one round the slower wyverns, but only he catches 18/44 wyverns assuming equal distributions of AS values, which is only 40.91%.

Against the corsairs, Fiora doubles and ORKO's everything, and can go Axereaver against most of them to sport ~64 avo, which averages around displayed hit in the 10's. In comparison, Canas can only double 6/13 axers and does not have the benefit of WTC.

Against the mercs, Fiora can double and ORKO the 30 hp/11 AS/6 def ones with iron and a level up during the map means she can double the 12 AS ones too, which is effectively all but two. Canas doubles nothing, and if he tries to crit with Luna, he gets doubled and raped. Also, WTA makes a difference here since Canas gets 3-4 HKO'd while Fiora gets 4-6 HKO'd.

Also of note is that Fiora can rush ahead to kill the Sage when he's trying to Bolting your frails.

And later, in 28x,

Fiora level 20/4 B Florina C Sain C Kent

37 hp | 15.5 str | 20.5 skl | 21 spd | 11 lck | 11+1 def | 17+1 res
with Killer: 29.5 atk | 18 AS | 134 hit | 57 crit | 49 avo
with Iron: 26.5 atk | 19 AS | 144 hit | 27 crit | 51 avo
with Javelin: 25.5 atk | 16 AS | 129 hit | 27 crit | 45 avo
with Axereaver: 29.5 atk | 16 AS | 134 hit | 32 crit | 45 avo

Canas level 20/1

33.5 hp | 15.5 mag | 14 skl | 15 spd | 10 lck | 10 def | 15 res
with Flux: 22.5 atk | 15 AS | 113 hit | 7 crit | 40 avo
with Luna: 15.5 atk | 11 AS | 128 hit | 27 crit | 32 avo
with Nosferatu: 25.5 atk | 9 AS | 103 hit | 7 crit | 28 avo

With 18 AS with the killer lance, Fiora doubles everything but one hero, and so has an 81.41% to crit; this combined with her 29.5 atk allows her to at least hit and crit even the wyvern lord with 51 hp/16 def. Canas meanwhile, misses doubling 9 enemies, cannot ORKO the generals and snipers, gets the crap end of the def-res gap against the sages, druids, bishops, and pegs/falcos, isn't fighting the archers anyway because the map is like that, AND has to deal with Silence as well as Sleep. On top of this, Fiora has leads across the board in durability, and simply auto wins because of flight skipping.

More issues will be covered later, but I need to end this post.

Fiora > Canas. Maybe if his name was Canbadas or something.

Edited for code mode.

Edited September 6, 2010 by WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Life]

As his name suggests, Canas is a can of ass in the shadow of Fiora, pegasus commander of Ilia. It's clear that if you compare their lives, Fiora actually went somewhere with hers while Canas has no real world sense, like how he doesn't know what a wyvern is. That ignorance is dangerous to have on the battlefield.

I'm sorry, Canas lost his life trying to stop an avalanche. Fiora ran away the second her troops got slaughtered by enemies. You tell me who actually deserves a medal for their bravery.

You could also say that Canas will open a can of whoop-ass on his enemies but that sounds a wee bit corny.

Canas joins in 17x and immediately you'll notice that he is inadequate to handle the lvl 17 wall blocking you from Fargus with 21 hp, 5 def, and 8 res. Most of those pirates have atk ranging from 23-25, which is a 2HKO on Canas, and there's also the Devil Axe pirate, who pulls a OHKO, and possibly a Killer Axe pirate, who doubles Canas.

Normally, I don't stop paragraphs halfway through like this. But this is just dumb.

May I have a reason for WHY any of these listed pirates would be attacking Canas at 1 range? It's nice and dandy to play the "no defense" card but the problem here is that Canas cannot possibly be hit by any of these pirates.

Even the Killer Bow archer (21 atk), Elfire mage (21 atk), and Nosferatu shaman (23 atk) 2HKO him, and so Canas dies in the chokepoint combo. You may say that the more efficient way to use Canas is to put him behind a tank, but eventually, that tank will need to healed, and Canas is going to have to get out of the way.

Now you're talking sense. But take a look at the map. This is ENM I believe so imagine about 4 more pirates to the south west and 2 more to the north.

Now, we can field 5 units and Hector. Then we get Canas on Turn 1. If we field Florina, Raven, Oswin/Marcus, Serra/Prissy and Guy/Lyn, a couple of things happen.

1) If Raven goes north, Guy/Lyn sits in the northern house route and Oswin/Marcus with a Horseslayer stops at the spot that is 1 SW of the Devil Axe house, we still have one extra person who is fully healed that can ward off attacks. If Guy/Lyn gets injured, they move back and Hector takes the spot while the healer heals the injured unit. And Canas didn't even have to move if he's parked right behind Guy/Lyn. This is a tactitian thing and any bullshit about Canas needing to move leads me to think that you're subpar at this game while trying to pass it off as one of Canas' weaknesses.

2) There are ~10 pirates rushing you from the west, probably 7 since I think the southern 3 don't move. The AI moves the Pirates before the Mage, Shaman and Archer and will block off 2 range spots just for a Pirate to get closer to your troops. As a result, we don't even need to worry about the 2 range units until at least Turn 4. Don't believe me on this point? Try it out for yourself. Pirates move first.

As for the other, lvl 4 pirates, most of the time, they will trade 2HKO's with Canas when you have other units like Raven, who can plow through and end up better.

Canas doesn't need to bother himself with small fries.

0 levels for him here.

Whoa, this is absolutely wrong. Lemme pull up my 16x info from my EHM S Rank run.

Canas      9.83  |22|11| 9| 8| 7| 5| 8|

I said 1.5 and I was being nice. I finished this chapter on Turn 6 with still a bunch of enemies to go AND I was under the Tactics count of 10 turns. It is completely fair to assume at least 1 level if not 2 for Port of Badon.

Also, this isn't a case of personal experience. This is me bring solid data to the table and explaining why you're wrong.

In 18, Canas still isn't gaining levels. Though there's no enemy stats for 18, since in 17, the mercs would double him, naturally they still will in 18. Shamans also work counter to the def-res gap, and Canas's res isn't fantastic either, so fighting against them will give little return. Aside from those enemies, there's the pegs, and it's too easy for Canas to get swarmed to death with little protection.

Maybe 1 level total

Again, from where are you getting this assumption that Canas always gets attacked from 1 range? This is what I call "tactical ineptitude", not "durability problems". If Canas gets fielded here, he's sitting at level 10 minimum. If he doesn't (not that I expect him to), he's at least level 9.5, possibly still level 10.

So then we get to Fiora's join and have a more accurate direct comparison:

Level 7 Fiora: 21 hp | 8 str | 11 skl | 13 spd | 6 lck | 6 def | 7 res | 5 con | 7 mov

Level 9 Canas: 22 hp | 10 mag | 9 skl | 8 spd | 7 lck | 5 def | 8 res | 7 con | 5 mov

Mostly, their stats look similar besides the +5 spd Fiora has, and while you may point to con, let's look at combat stats:

Fiora with Iron Lance: 15 atk | 10 AS | 105 hit | 26 avo

Slim Lance: 12 atk | 13 AS | 110 hit | 32 avo

Javelin: 14 atk | 7 AS | 90 hit | 20 avo

Axereaver: 18 atk | 7 AS | 95 hit | 20 avo (~50 with WTA)

Canas with Flux: 17 atk | 7 AS | 101 hit | 21 avo

You'll notice how Fiora has 4 weapons to work with while Canas is stuck with 1; this goes to show that Fiora has more versatility and is prepared for different situations while Canas has to work with one option to fit everything. Even later, Canas may pick up other tomes, but they either nerf his AS or are Eclipse, that he's still inflexible.

It may seem Canas's generally higher atk combined with def-res gap gives him the win, but first of all, for enemies that are not wyverns or knights the def-res gap at the time is about 2-3 and 6 for cavs. In fact, the reverse def-res gap for mages and shamans is about 4-6 and even greater for monks. Therefore, Fiora's AS lead will gradually lead to more damage output

I think you and the English language have different meanings for flexibility.

flex·i·ble   /ˈflɛksəbəl/ Show Spelled[flek-suh-buhl] Show IPA

–adjective

susceptible of modification or adaptation; adaptable:

Canas wielding 1 weapon that does the work of at least 2 that you've mentioned is flexibility, not Fiora using 4 different weapons and failing with each of them. Flux has inherent 1~2 range (maybe you forgot that since you keep mentioning that Canas is constantly getting attacked at 1 range when he isn't) like the Javelin and it basically has the Atk as the Axereaver, Fiora's strongest weapon that you posted. In fact, Canas does MORE thanks to the Def/Res gap which you later claim is negligible (for Pegs and any sort of mage it is, which is only 30% of all of the game's units).

The chapters following Fiora's join work heavily in her favor. In 19, she can easily take her axereaver and go to work on pirate reinforcements, where her durability is helped with superior avoid. If chapter 21 is any indication, pirates will have about 75 hit, which translates to 25 displayed, 12.75 true. 1.5 levels is easy for her, while Canas doesn't have an effective way to fix durability, seeing as this is FoW with nomads who double him and pegrushes.

19x has lots of magic types and that big magic seal thing, which really rains on Canas's parade, even though there are knights to take advantage of. Fiora can gain another two levels, while at the same time, Canas has gained, like 2 levels over the course of his existence, so Fiora is starting to open up a level lead.

20 seems more in Canas's favor, with chokepoints and cavs to take advantage of def-res gap, but there are so many other units you're sending over in that cramped area (includes cavs, Hector, Lyn, Eliwood, Erk, Lucius, Oswin) that Canas isn't likely to see much action there. Meanwhile the middle room spawns mercs and dark mages, some of the units Fiora does best against. What really makes this chapter of note is the secret shop containing killers. Then the game becomes auto-win for Fiora.

Canas can easily see action in 19 and HAS seen action on my run in that chapter. There's lots of forests and and low Res things called Cavs and Nomads roaming the southern end. Canas has similar durability to someone like Florina (who gets fielded to recruit Fiora) so he has all the business in the world to be there.

I'll give you the point on 19x but Fiora doesn't have a level lead. After 4 chapters, Canas is a mandatory field in 17x and probably does the best out of all your magic users in 18 (Erk suffers from WTD while Lucius is underleveled at this point) and 19 (most durable magic unit on the field). He's getting fielded in at least one of these chapters. Canas being at Level 11 after 19 is done is very possible and very likely if you're using him fairly and not trying to shaft the bastard.

Now let's look at Fiora. She gets about 1.5 levels in 19 if my math is right (4 Pirates vs. Axereaver). Now IF she is fielded in 19x (I didn't field her on my EHM run), she's getting 2 levels max thanks to everyone else competing for experience. That leaves her at... level 10. Canas is level 11.

Now, not only does Fiora NOT have a level lead, Canas is actually leading her. Please do not claim silly things like "Fiora has a level lead after 19x" in the future, ok?

Is Luna really that awesome for Canas?

Compare: Canas with Luna to Fiora with KL

Canas: loses 4-5 AS, +20 crit, often does less than Flux since enemy res is usually below 7, worth 5250

Fiora: loses 3-4 AS, +30 crit, same mt as steel, worth 1200 and also buyable

Is this even close? On top of this, seeing as Fiora has +5 speed on Canas at base and +15% growth, if we give both 10 levels, Fiora will have a +7.5 AS lead, which means that she's practically doubling what Canas is getting doubled by. At this point, killer lance chance to crit alone becomes 51%. Killer lance wtfrapes Luna.

what is this, i dont even

I don't understand 2 things.

1) Why you're comparing Luna (a situational weapon that I have SAID is a situational weapon) to the Killer Lance (a regular combat weapon that can critical).

2) Why you're assuming that we waste Luna on a regular mook.

Why don't we look at Luna in its proper use, shall we? We'll take Chapter 21 as a comparison point since it's the first chapter where we can feasibly use both Luna and the Killer Lance.

Oleg has 48 HP, 8 AS, 3 Luck, 13 Def and 8 Res. Oh and he has WTA on Fiora with a Killer Axe. Fuck, sucks to be her. Canas can be sitting at about level 12 by now, maybe even level 13 if you gave him a round in the arena (I did that to Rebecca, Lucius, Legault and Raven on EHM without really losing turns). That translates to... about 12 Atk with Luna or 11 with Flux. Yeah, let's take Luna. He also has 22 Crit. He 2RKOs Oleg with a single crit (17% of the time) or 4RKOs him without. Oleg has 28 Atk with the Steel Bow against Canas' 24 HP and 6 Def, also resulting in a 2RKO (he doesn't double Canas since Canas sports 5 AS, just enough to escape the double).

Now let's look at Fiora with the Killer Lance. Fiora will reasonably be a level lower than Canas so 11~12 fits the bill here. That gives her about 19 Atk against 13 Def... Oh. That's 6 damage a hit... Wait, don't forget about Critical! The KL gives her 34 Crit, doing 18 damage. So at best, she 2RKOs Oleg with 2 criticals on 4 hits (also happens about 5% of the time) and at worst 4RKOs him. So no better than Canas, even after doubling. On the flipside, Oleg has 31 Atk against Fiora's... 24 HP and 7 Def... Oh shit, that's a OHKO.

Luna is a fantastic boss weapon. It can hit from 2 Range, it can critical and it ignores Res. Oleg's a Warrior and has naturally low Res. If I took someone like Linus who has similar Def/Res counts, you'd see a big difference in what Canas can achieve without even trying and what Fiora has to reach just to match him. Oh and it also worked out that Fiora gets OHKO'd up close and at range by a moving boss in FoW. I guess Fiora's not getting fielded in this chapter since "keep her out of his range" isn't a viable defense.

Nosferatu drops Canas's AS by 6-7, which means that even after the nice +4 AS boost from promotion, he's still sporting a whopping 9 AS at 20/1, which wouldn't even double most enemies in chapter 12. Assuming Canas is level 16 in 24 Linus, going Nosferatu means 4 AS, which is doubled by most everything on land, and since he gets 2HKO'd by most of the wyverns/other non-doublers, one miss and he's still screwed. You could say promotion could pad his AS, but even that wouldn't stop the promoted enemies from doubling him and in return for coping against the non-promoted enemies, he kills exp rank.

Eclipse is lol. Fenrir is more lol. You're not using Gespenst so basically, Canas is stuck with Flux for life.

You do realize that AS isn't everything, right? That same level 13 Canas from above sports 22 Atk with Nosferatu or "effectively heals about 18 damage every time he hits with Nosferatu". If Canas is hurt, I can have him heal himself to full HP with Nosferatu on a Player Phase. If he gets attacked on the enemy phase, he takes x damage, heals it back up while doing damage to the attacker and takes x damage again. If Fiora is hurt, I have to heal her up with a healer (when I could be healing a more useful unit) or get her to use a vulnerary which wastes that phase. If she gets attacked on the enemy phase, she takes x damage and does damage to the attacker.

Note the fact that Canas allows my healer to heal another unit and doesn't need to waste his phase with a vulnerary. That allows for tactical flexibility, a word you seem to confuse with nightmare when talking about Fiora.

And so what if I'm not using Eclipse or Fenrir? What's wrong with Flux? It only costs 900G (less than that Killer Lance that Fiora wastes on mooks), has 1~2 range (what was the weapon that Fiora needed to achieve that... oh yeah, that shitty Javelin with 65 Hit, 11 Wt and 20 uses), 7 Mt (Lucius needs Divine to be using a better weapon), has 45 uses (most uses in the game for a single weapon) and attacks Res. Flux fulfills Canas' needs better than 4 weapons fulfill Fiora's. So why don't we start respecting Flux, eh?

21 - Monks are pretty hilarious for anyone not named Canas. Oh wait. Also Fiora is the master village visiter here, freeing up your Ravens and Guys to actually fight since around this time, deployment spots are in low supply.

*Looks at map*

I count 3 ballistas in FoW. Yeah... I'm trusting Fiora here. And I also see constant reinforments from Turn 7 onwards of Wyvern Knights and Knights, stuff that has high Def and low Res. And then there's Oleg who OHKO's Fiora from a distance no matter her level and has a chance to OHKO up close if he doesn't do it already with his 31 Atk. And so you know, "Refuerzos" means "reinforcements".

22 - Nothing major to either side. I'll give Canas wyverns and knights, but it's easy for Fiora to WTC and there's a magic rush near the bottom, perfect for Fiora's physical/high speed/high res combo.

23 - Despite magic walking, Fiora still wins mobility due to ignore cliffs and circulating enemies. She's also essential here for tossing the thieves around to get all those goods. This chapter alone ensures Fiora wins funds.

23x - This map was made for Fiora. While Canas is useless in the magic seal, hits res in a res heavy map, and gets doubled if he tries Luna, Fiora packs good res augmented by Barrier/Pure Water and killer lance doubling against the better side of the def-res gap for exactly what you need in this map. Killing 4 promoted units with Fiora should be easy, and this will net her about 3 levels. Feeding Fiora more kills is also a good idea for the exp rank.

24 - Assuming Linus, Fiora has WTA over all the mercs, can go Axereaver against the pirates, and visits villages like a pro.

25 - The strategy for this map is pretty simple; send your units where they perform best. This means wherever Canas goes, he is simply outperformed by axes/high def through the cavs, swords in the lower left, and monkfest is simply not an option. It does work for Fiora though, where she's pretty much invincible and one rounds everything with just a javelin. Flight and high res here combine for a boost to the exp and tactics ratings.

26 - Flight allows Fiora to grab the Hammerne and swing all over the place to where the action is, though Canas does hit wyvern res.

27 - As these maps get larger, higher mov becomes more important, and is especially noticeable with terrain ignore. 5 starring tactics is not a joke, and even if you can 5 star it comfortably with lesser move units, the extra turns cut from better mobility can be converted into exp.

28 - Zephiel demands high movement. By the way, I think you can totally ignore Maxime in this map, and he gives crappy exp for some reason, so that's random.

28x - This is obvious. Flight saves like 10 turns here.

29 - Holy shit 23 AS valks. Good thing Fiora also has awesome AS, has awesome res, can go mostly anywhere, and gets the good end of the def-res gap. Basically, the only thing stopping her are those bullshit 29 mag druids. Meanwhile Canas is bogged down by what's in front of him, though high res applies for him too.

30 - Probably not for either.

31 - Maybe Canas wins here.

31x - Obviously, Fiora has a crushing win here.

32 - All the terrain works in Fiora's favor. In addition, this map is heavily reliant on combat skills, which I'll look into later.

32x - If you're going, magic seal.

Final - I'll give Luna its props here, but Fiora is still cool against top left and lower left rooms.

That was longer than expected. Now that I'm done with how the chapters work in Fiora's favor, I'll do some combat comparisons.

I don't see a reason to specifically reply to every chapter listed above. Apparently both Florina and Heath (and Vaida to an extent) don't exist in this game since Fiora's doing EVERY flying job available. But let me mention a few things.

31x: Fiora doesn't have a CRUSHING win in that chapter. The only person of note in this chapter is Jaffar who has Ninian dancing his ass every turn so that he hits the arena 10 times. Silencer was made for this chapter.

Fiora has major wins against Canas in 23x, 28x and 29. That's about it. Everything else is some sort of bullshit reason that you've made up. How does Fiora autowin Funds by flying around in 23? If you look at this map, you'll see Archers, Mages, Wyvern Knights and 2 bosses with axes in the middle of the fucking map. Oh and it's FoW. You expect me to fly Fiora through that? Keep in mind that Pent is on the other side of the map and isn't God (unfortunately).

And you're wrong about 5 starring Tactics. It actually is a joke. Look at my EHM run (linked a couple times in this post) for proof. When I was at VoD, I had 40 extra turns. 40 FUCKING EXTRA TURNS and I wasn't playing efficiently. My problem was Exp (a nightmare of a rank), something that a promoted Canas excels at because he has his own personal Exp pool when using staffs. He's not taking from other units, unlike Fiora who has to steal kills in order to keep her Exp flowing. Last I checked, you don't get Exp for rescuing a person or flying over a cliff. You do for healing a person.

Linus 24

Fiora level 18 C Florina

29 hp | 12 str | 17.5 skl | 18.5 spd | 9 lck | 8 def | 12.5 res

With KL: 23 atk | 14.5 AS | 115 hit | 44 crit | 38 avo

With Iron: 20 atk | 15.5 AS | 125 hit | 14 crit | 40 avo

With Javelin: 19 atk | 12.5 AS | 110 hit | 14 crit | 34 avo

With Axereaver: 23 atk | 12.5 AS | 115 hit | 19 crit | 34 avo

Canas level 16

27 hp | 13.5 mag | 12 skl | 11 spd | 9 lck | 7 def | 11.5 res

With Flux: 20.5 atk | 10 AS | 109 hit | 6 crit | 29 avo

With Luna: 13.5 atk | 6 AS | 124 hit | 26 crit | 21 avo

The first thing that I notice is that Fiora has at least a 44% chance to instantly kill any unpromoted enemy, since 23 atk catches the 33 hp/12 def wyverns and seeing as also she doubles them, her crit chance goes up to 68.64%. Meanwhile, Canas can double and one round the slower wyverns, but only he catches 18/44 wyverns assuming equal distributions of AS values, which is only 40.91%.

Against the corsairs, Fiora doubles and ORKO's everything, and can go Axereaver against most of them to sport ~64 avo, which averages around displayed hit in the 10's. In comparison, Canas can only double 6/13 axers and does not have the benefit of WTC.

Against the mercs, Fiora can double and ORKO the 30 hp/11 AS/6 def ones with iron and a level up during the map means she can double the 12 AS ones too, which is effectively all but two. Canas doubles nothing, and if he tries to crit with Luna, he gets doubled and raped. Also, WTA makes a difference here since Canas gets 3-4 HKO'd while Fiora gets 4-6 HKO'd.

Also of note is that Fiora can rush ahead to kill the Sage when he's trying to Bolting your frails.

First note: Where are you getting level 18 from? You pulled this number completely out of your ass. Here's the proof.

Eliwood   18.38  |34|12|19|12|12|12| 8| 
Rebecca   16.25  |27|12|13|16|10| 4| 6| 
Matthew   19.23  |36|11|10|20|14| 6| 4| 
Guy       13.95  |30| 8|16|16|10| 7| 2| 
Priscilla 14.38  |20|11|12|14|15| 4| 8| 
Raven     14.64  |33|11|15|17| 4| 7| 3| 
Lucius    14.11  |26|13|12|13| 3| 2|14| 
Dart      14.86  |39|16| 8|12| 4| 7| 1| 
Fiora     13.71  |26|11|16|16| 8| 8| 9| 
Ninian    11.01  |21| 0| 1|19|20|10|12| 
Isadora    1.82  Base 
Heath     14.37  |34|13|11| 9| 9|12| 1| 
Geitz      3.71  Base

Aside from Eliwood, Rebecca is the highest combat level AFTER finishing this map (Matthew went from 13.95 to 19.23 thanks to the arena) thanks to her ORKOing Wyverns without batting an eyelash and she's only level 16. Fiora's sitting at level 13.71. Granted, I could give her a couple of levels from Heath but her max level is then 15. Canas will also be 15 if you're using him constantly (I basically dropped him in this run so that he could be a lategame Exp unit) and Fiora has 0 level lead. Level 18 my ass... Have you even TRIED to S Rank HHM? What about EHM? Fuck, with a level 18 Fiora at this point in the game, the best you'll manage for Exp is 3 stars, never mind 5.

As for the actual combat stats, I'm not going to talk about them since they're already mentioned in my opening post with me explaining why Canas is better. When the pair are at reasonable levels, Canas is the better combatant. When their levels are inflated worse than the US Dollar with Fiora being given an arbitrary higher level just because she can have one, obviously she does a bit better than Canas.

And later, in 28x,

Fiora level 20/4 B Florina C Sain C Kent

37 hp | 15.5 str | 20.5 skl | 21 spd | 11 lck | 11+1 def | 17+1 res

with Killer: 29.5 atk | 18 AS | 134 hit | 57 crit | 49 avo

with Iron: 26.5 atk | 19 AS | 144 hit | 27 crit | 51 avo

with Javelin: 25.5 atk | 16 AS | 129 hit | 27 crit | 45 avo

with Axereaver: 29.5 atk | 16 AS | 134 hit | 32 crit | 45 avo

Canas level 20/1

33.5 hp | 15.5 mag | 14 skl | 15 spd | 10 lck | 10 def | 15 res

with Flux: 22.5 atk | 15 AS | 113 hit | 7 crit | 40 avo

with Luna: 15.5 atk | 11 AS | 128 hit | 27 crit | 32 avo

with Nosferatu: 25.5 atk | 9 AS | 103 hit | 7 crit | 28 avo

With 18 AS with the killer lance, Fiora doubles everything but one hero, and so has an 81.41% to crit; this combined with her 29.5 atk allows her to at least hit and crit even the wyvern lord with 51 hp/16 def. Canas meanwhile, misses doubling 9 enemies, cannot ORKO the generals and snipers, gets the crap end of the def-res gap against the sages, druids, bishops, and pegs/falcos, isn't fighting the archers anyway because the map is like that, AND has to deal with Silence as well as Sleep. On top of this, Fiora has leads across the board in durability, and simply auto wins because of flight skipping.

Umm... no. Just no. You're almost as bad as Inui at inflating levels. Proof is here again.

Eliwood     20.00  |36|13|20|13|13|14| 8| 
Rebecca      1.70  |34|17|18|19|13| 6| 9| 
Priscilla    2.31  |26|15|16|19|19| 6|14| 
Lyn          1.00  |32|16|22|20|13|12| 8| 
Florina     18.21  |26|12|15|20|16| 6| 6| 
Canas       15.74  |24|13|12|10| 7| 6|12| 
Fiora       19.84  |30|11|19|20| 9| 9|14| 
Legault     19.52  |31|13|15|20|15|12| 7| 
Ninian      17.28  |26| 0| 2|24|25|12|17| 
Geitz        5.92  |42|18|12|14|11|11| 3| 
Nino        13.33  |24| 8|15|15|16| 5|13| 
Jaffar      15.12  |36|19|27|24|10|17|12|

Heath promoted at the end of last chapter but I was using an unpromoted Florina and Fiora, both nearly at 20/0. Canas and Fiora are both 20/1 MAX (imagine Canas being Rebecca) at this point, not 20/4 to start the chapter.

Read my above comment about combat stats. But I do want to mention supports (since I forgot to in my first post).

With regards to C Sain C Kent, that's not exactly happening. C Sain I can buy but Kent is a support pimp with Lyn wanting the man badly. Like "hi there Anima so I get Def and Avo to pad my paper defense" badly. She'll be taking C Kent in 20 turns (by the end of 20 or so) and B Kent after that. Fiora need about 27 turns for C Kent and loses out on B Kent because Lyn wants him that badly and has a headstart. Florina's always available but that's a B at most too since Lyn has the A support locked up. Sucks to be Fiora, huh?

Canas doesn't need supports, he's already married with a family. Seriously, his suck. Plain and simple. But he's great without any so I don't see a problem.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Life Admiral

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I'm sorry, Canas lost his life trying to stop an avalanche. Fiora ran away the second her troops got slaughtered by enemies. You tell me who actually deserves a medal for their bravery.

1. It was continuity errors a snowstorm. Much less epic.

2. That's not brave, that's just dumb. Seriously, what the fuck?

3. Fiora is clearly doing the smart thing. Basic decision making skills right here.

You could also say that Canas will open a can of whoop-ass on his enemies but that sounds a wee bit corny.

Nonsense.

Normally, I don't stop paragraphs halfway through like this. But this is just dumb.

Normally, I don't stop paragraphs halfway through like this, but oh wait I just read the rest of the paragraph.

1) If Raven goes north, Guy/Lyn sits in the northern house route and Oswin/Marcus with a Horseslayer stops at the spot that is 1 SW of the Devil Axe house, we still have one extra person who is fully healed that can ward off attacks. If Guy/Lyn gets injured, they move back and Hector takes the spot while the healer heals the injured unit. And Canas didn't even have to move if he's parked right behind Guy/Lyn. This is a tactitian thing and any bullshit about Canas needing to move leads me to think that you're subpar at this game while trying to pass it off as one of Canas' weaknesses.

This is irrelevant to the fact that moving Canas away to put a healer behind your tank works too. Hector will likely not be pulling the same offense as your fast sword user, which will in turn slow you down. In addition, I do not understand the purpose of fielding Florina if we're fighting, which allows us to bring another unit, such as Erk or Lucius, who can do the same, but are at lower levels/turn out better.

2) There are ~10 pirates rushing you from the west, probably 7 since I think the southern 3 don't move. The AI moves the Pirates before the Mage, Shaman and Archer and will block off 2 range spots just for a Pirate to get closer to your troops. As a result, we don't even need to worry about the 2 range units until at least Turn 4. Don't believe me on this point? Try it out for yourself. Pirates move first.

Sure, but after turn 4?

Whoa, this is absolutely wrong. Lemme pull up my 16x info from my EHM S Rank run.

Okay, let's ignore the fact that EHM is easier than HHM, namely EHM enemies don't get HM bonuses, there are less enemies, and that they are typically of an easier to deal with class.

I said 1.5 and I was being nice. I finished this chapter on Turn 6 with still a bunch of enemies to go AND I was under the Tactics count of 10 turns. It is completely fair to assume at least 1 level if not 2 for Port of Badon.

By my calculations, Canas getting to 9.83 requires killing 3 lvl 17 pirates and a lvl 4 pirate in 5 player phases. There are 5 lvl 17 pirates on the map. Why are we giving him this many?

Also, this isn't a case of personal experience. This is me bring solid data to the table and explaining why you're wrong.

What the hell. This is the definition of personal experience.

Again, from where are you getting this assumption that Canas always gets attacked from 1 range? This is what I call "tactical ineptitude", not "durability problems". If Canas gets fielded here, he's sitting at level 10 minimum. If he doesn't (not that I expect him to), he's at least level 9.5, possibly still level 10.

As opposed to Canas getting attacked from 2-range? Simply playing this chapter reveals that blockading does not work and undercuts the exp potential here, due to pegrushes and that your blockers are probably going to be Marcus/Oswin. In the open field, Canas has to lag behind because he cannot survive the brunt of enemies.

Canas wielding 1 weapon that does the work of at least 2 that you've mentioned is flexibility, not Fiora using 4 different weapons and failing with each of them.

Please show how Flux can rape axes and double more enemies. If Fiora is failing with each of her weapons, Canas with Flux is IS trolling us and succeeding in your case.

Flux has inherent 1~2 range (maybe you forgot that since you keep mentioning that Canas is constantly getting attacked at 1 range when he isn't)

I still don't get it. If he's not getting attack at one range, it's probably because he has at least two bodyguards on him at once, which is just hampering two of your best units at this point since deployment spots are limited for Canas's benefit. Even still, he'd be getting attacked by nomads in this chapter.

In fact, Canas does MORE thanks to the Def/Res gap which you later claim is negligible (for Pegs and any sort of mage it is, which is only 30% of all of the game's units).

Except that again, def-res gap for mercs, myrms, pirates, fighters, nomads, bandits, and archers is about 3, which Fiora doubling more than makes up for. For pegs/mage types, we're looking at ~5 for the res-def gap.

Canas can easily see action in 19 and HAS seen action on my run in that chapter. There's lots of forests and and low Res things called Cavs and Nomads roaming the southern end. Canas has similar durability to someone like Florina (who gets fielded to recruit Fiora) so he has all the business in the world to be there.

cool

I'll give you the point on 19x but Fiora doesn't have a level lead. After 4 chapters, Canas is a mandatory field in 17x and probably does the best out of all your magic users in 18 (Erk suffers from WTD while Lucius is underleveled at this point)

Meaningless seeing as he's still shit in this chapter. On one side he's not killing anything and on the other, his 7 AS is getting doubled and ORKO'd by mercs with steel, and on either side he can get stabbed to death by pegrushes. On top of this, there are only 6 deployment spots, IIRC. And if anything, the underleveledness is an advantage.

and 19 (most durable magic unit on the field).

Again, meaningless seeing as 2RKO = 2RKO in the south, and pretty much everyone else can double. Meanwhile, nomads from FoW still limit where Canas can go. Also, pegrushes still exist and make life difficult.

He's getting fielded in at least one of these chapters.

17x

Canas being at Level 11 after 19 is done is very possible and very likely if you're using him fairly and not trying to shaft the bastard.

Actually, despite your errors, that's only a level up on my estimation. But it's still from errors, so we're looking at Canas borderline level 9/10.

Now let's look at Fiora. She gets about 1.5 levels in 19 if my math is right (4 Pirates vs. Axereaver). Now IF she is fielded in 19x (I didn't field her on my EHM run), she's getting 2 levels max thanks to everyone else competing for experience. That leaves her at... level 10. Canas is level 11.

See above.

Now, not only does Fiora NOT have a level lead, Canas is actually leading her. Please do not claim silly things like "Fiora has a level lead after 19x" in the future, ok?

Naw, see Fiora is like Chuck Norris, in that if she's at level 10, and you're at level 10, she's at a higher level than you.

But in seriousness, despite the apparent tie level, it is a general trend in FE that due to increased mobility (more enemy exposure) and superior combat, Fiora will quickly start to open up a level lead. Fiora has a level lead after 19x.

what is this, i dont even

I don't understand 2 things.

1) Why you're comparing Luna (a situational weapon that I have SAID is a situational weapon) to the Killer Lance (a regular combat weapon that can critical).

2) Why you're assuming that we waste Luna on a regular mook.

Advantage Killer Lance. That's like, over 90% of enemies that Killer Lance doesn't apparently even have competition against. Unless you want to go into KL vs Flux.

Oleg has 48 HP, 8 AS, 3 Luck, 13 Def and 8 Res. Oh and he has WTA on Fiora with a Killer Axe. Fuck, sucks to be her. Canas can be sitting at about level 12 by now, maybe even level 13 if you gave him a round in the arena (I did that to Rebecca, Lucius, Legault and Raven on EHM without really losing turns). That translates to... about 12 Atk with Luna or 11 with Flux. Yeah, let's take Luna. He also has 22 Crit. He 2RKOs Oleg with a single crit (17% of the time) or 4RKOs him without. Oleg has 28 Atk with the Steel Bow against Canas' 24 HP and 6 Def, also resulting in a 2RKO (he doesn't double Canas since Canas sports 5 AS, just enough to escape the double).

First thing I notice is, what the fuck happened to all the other enemies?

Let's try again:

2x Archer lv 9 (Poison Bow)

12-13 atk, 6-7 AS, 81-83 hit, 4 crit; 27 HP, 5 def, 2 res, 12-14 avo

1x Brigand lv 9 (Poison Axe)

16 atk, 68-70 hit, 7-8 AS, 2-3 crit; 30-31 HP, 4-5 def, 1-2 res, 14-16 avo

1x Brigand lv 9 (Hand Axe)

20 atk, 72 hit

1x Brigand lv 9 (Hammer)

21 atk, 63 hit, 4 AS; 8 avo

6x Monk lv 9 (Shine)

11-12 atk, 3-4 AS, 100-102 hit, 10-11 crit; 24-25 HP, 1-3 def, 9-11 res, 6-8 avo

1x Monk lv 9 (Lightning)

10 atk, 7 AS, 103 hit, 7 crit; 14 avo

1x Monk lv 14 (Shine)

11 atk, 6 AS, 106 hit, 12 crit; 27 HP, 2 def, 12 res, 12 avo

5x Pegasus Knight lv 9 (Poison Lance)

12-13 atk, 7-9 AS, 85-87 hit, 5 crit; 20-23 HP, 4-5 def, 6-8 res, 14-18 avo

4x Wyvern Rider lv 8 (Poison Lance)

16-17 atk, 8-10 AS, 79-81 hit, 3-4 crit; 28-31 HP, 10-11 def, 1-2 res, 16-20 avo

1x Oleg lv 5 (Killer Axe/Steel Bow)

29/27 atk, 8 AS, 86/91 hit, 35/5 crit; 46 HP, 13 def, 8 res, 19 avo

Reinforcements

Turn 4

1x Brigand lv 9 (Poison Axe)

Turn 5

1x Brigand lv 9 (Poison Axe)

1x Monk lv 6 (Lightning)

7 atk, 5 AS, 103 hit, 7 crit; 22-23 HP, 2-3 def, 9 res, 10 avo

1x Monk lv 6 (Shine)

10 atk, 2 AS, 100 hit, 10 crit; 4 avo

Turn 6

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Javelin)

18-19 atk, 8-9 AS, 77-81 hit, 3-4 crit; 30-31 HP, 11-13 def, 2-3 res, 16-18 avo

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Steel Lance)

22-23 atk, 5-7 AS, 84-86 hit; 10-14 avo

2x Wyvern Rider lv 5 (Poison Lance)

15 atk, 7-8 AS, 77-79 hit, 3 crit; 27-28 HP, 10 def, 0-2 res, 14-16 avo

Turn 7, 8

1x Knight lv 7 (Poison Lance)

13-14 atk, 1-2 AS, 73-75 hit, 2-3 crit; 25-26 HP, 11-13 def, 2 res, 2-4 avo

1x Knight lv 7 (Steel Lance)

20 atk, 80-82 hit

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Javelin)

2x Wyvern Rider lv 5 (Poison Lance)

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Steel Lance)

Turn 9

1x Knight lv 7 (Poison Lance)

1x Knight lv 7 (Steel Lance)

2x Wyvern Rider lv 5 (Poison Lance)

Turn 10

1x Knight lv 7 (Poison Lance)

1x Knight lv 7 (Steel Lance)

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Steel Lance)

1x Wywern Rider lv 9 (Poison Lance)

16 atk

Turn 11,12

1x Wyvern Rider lv 9 (Steel Lance)

1x Wywern Rider lv 9 (Poison Lance)

I count 51 (that's a lot) enemies you just discarded, though we probably won't be fighting the latter reinforcement, so it only gets dropped to I'll say ~40 (that's still a lot).

Canas has a shot at doubling the Hammer Bro and the Shine monks, but 9-11 res and WTD means he still sucks against those. Meanwhile, with the KL, at level 12, with C Florina, Fiora has 21 atk, enough to kill every enemy except the most hardy knights and wyverns. She doubles and ORKO's monks, archers, likely the brigands, likely the pegs with iron, and has chances to crit against most of the reinforcements with speed proc.

Now let's look at Fiora with the Killer Lance. Fiora will reasonably be a level lower than Canas so 11~12 fits the bill here. That gives her about 19 Atk against 13 Def... Oh. That's 6 damage a hit... Wait, don't forget about Critical! The KL gives her 34 Crit, doing 18 damage. So at best, she 2RKOs Oleg with 2 criticals on 4 hits (also happens about 5% of the time) and at worst 4RKOs him. So no better than Canas, even after doubling. On the flipside, Oleg has 31 Atk against Fiora's... 24 HP and 7 Def... Oh shit, that's a OHKO.

How do trying to kill him as fast as possible and S-Rank go together? Oleg is an example of the surround with WTA and beat to death slowly method, which Fiora can do because of the Axereaver. And WTA only gives +1 to atk; 29+1=30. Not that it matters.

Luna is a fantastic boss weapon. It can hit from 2 Range, it can critical and it ignores Res. Oleg's a Warrior and has naturally low Res. If I took someone like Linus who has similar Def/Res counts, you'd see a big difference in what Canas can achieve without even trying and what Fiora has to reach just to match him. Oh and it also worked out that Fiora gets OHKO'd up close and at range by a moving boss in FoW. I guess Fiora's not getting fielded in this chapter since "keep her out of his range" isn't a viable defense.

Except that:

1. Bosses are not difficult to defeat. If anything, you'll want to milk them for exp.

2. Canas simply isn't going to fight bosses; let's go down the list from when Luna first shows up:

-Darin: would be cool if Canas wasn't ORKO'd by the hand axe

-Oleg: see above

-Eubans: Canas isn't going anywhere near Eubans

-Paul/Jasmine: would be cooler if A: there weren't bunches of enemies around the one closer to you and B: the other one you smack around with a bunch of sword units; killing in as few rounds as possible is counterintuitive to the S-Rank

-Kishuna: no

-Linus: would be cool if Canas wasn't ORKO'd by the hand axe

-Lloyd: you're not letting him near Canas

-Pascal: simply not Canas's territory

-Vaida: no

-Kenneth: fair enough, but he has low defenses/Purge weight; anyone can kill him

-Jerme: similar to Kenneth

-Maxime: say hello to Harken with the Halberd

-Ursula: mercs say no, she also has terrible durability anyway

-Sonia: would be good until you remember how he's getting there

-Linus/Lloyd: fair enough

-Kaim: no

-Denning: there are many better options

-Limstella: see Sonia

-Kishuna: no

-Endgame: probably the best place for Luna; however, Canas fails to save turns here since Berserk/Athos is better

So there's maybe 5 bosses on one run he's good against, and even then, peoples like Guy/Raven do better and many times you don't want to kill the boss ASAP.

@bold, what are you smoking?

You do realize that AS isn't everything, right?

*waves back*

That same level 13 Canas from above sports 22 Atk with Nosferatu or "effectively heals about 18 damage every time he hits with Nosferatu". If Canas is hurt, I can have him heal himself to full HP with Nosferatu on a Player Phase. If he gets attacked on the enemy phase, he takes x damage, heals it back up while doing damage to the attacker and takes x damage again. If Fiora is hurt, I have to heal her up with a healer (when I could be healing a more useful unit) or get her to use a vulnerary which wastes that phase. If she gets attacked on the enemy phase, she takes x damage and does damage to the attacker.

Except y'know, the part where Canas dies cause he gets doubled/whiffs a hit.

Note the fact that Canas allows my healer to heal another unit and doesn't need to waste his phase with a vulnerary. That allows for tactical flexibility, a word you seem to confuse with nightmare when talking about Fiora.

You already have plenty of healing between Priscilla/Serra/Pent/Erk or Lucius.

And so what if I'm not using Eclipse or Fenrir? What's wrong with Flux? It only costs 900G (less than that Killer Lance that Fiora wastes on mooks), has 1~2 range (what was the weapon that Fiora needed to achieve that... oh yeah, that shitty Javelin with 65 Hit, 11 Wt and 20 uses), 7 Mt (Lucius needs Divine to be using a better weapon), has 45 uses (most uses in the game for a single weapon) and attacks Res. Flux fulfills Canas' needs better than 4 weapons fulfill Fiora's. So why don't we start respecting Flux, eh?

On top of what I said before, show me how Flux has 30 crit attached.

*Looks at map*

I count 3 ballistas in FoW.

What is this bullshit? How are you letting enemy archers onto these things?

I don't see a reason to specifically reply to every chapter listed above. Apparently both Florina and Heath (and Vaida to an extent) don't exist in this game since Fiora's doing EVERY flying job available. But let me mention a few things.

Non-sequitor. They can all do the jobs, and they can all do them together.

31x: Fiora doesn't have a CRUSHING win in that chapter. The only person of note in this chapter is Jaffar who has Ninian dancing his ass every turn so that he hits the arena 10 times. Silencer was made for this chapter.

carsasm

Fiora has major wins against Canas in 23x, 28x and 29. That's about it. Everything else is some sort of bullshit reason that you've made up.

*waves back*

How does Fiora autowin Funds by flying around in 23? If you look at this map, you'll see Archers, Mages, Wyvern Knights and 2 bosses with axes in the middle of the fucking map. Oh and it's FoW. You expect me to fly Fiora through that? Keep in mind that Pent is on the other side of the map and isn't God (unfortunately).

A prime example of Doing It Wrong. Kill the enemies first, then toss Matt/Leggy around. Rescuing Pent isn't going to drastically save exp, but

And you're wrong about 5 starring Tactics. It actually is a joke. Look at my EHM run (linked a couple times in this post) for proof. When I was at VoD, I had 40 extra turns. 40 FUCKING EXTRA TURNS and I wasn't playing efficiently. My problem was Exp (a nightmare of a rank), something that a promoted Canas excels at because he has his own personal Exp pool when using staffs. He's not taking from other units, unlike Fiora who has to steal kills in order to keep her Exp flowing. Last I checked, you don't get Exp for rescuing a person or flying over a cliff. You do for healing a person.

1. lolEHM

2. 0 requirement chapters; that cuts like 25 turns off

3. Less enemies

4. Weaker enemies

5. Tactics can be converted into exp, thus making it your first priority

6. Canas gains 6 exp for healing, whoop-de-doo

First note: Where are you getting level 18 from? You pulled this number completely out of your ass. Here's the proof.

Let's deconstruct this EHM run some more.

Aside from Eliwood, Rebecca is the highest combat level AFTER finishing this map (Matthew went from 13.95 to 19.23 thanks to the arena) thanks to her ORKOing Wyverns without batting an eyelash and she's only level 16. Fiora's sitting at level 13.71. Granted, I could give her a couple of levels from Heath but her max level is then 15. Canas will also be 15 if you're using him constantly (I basically dropped him in this run so that he could be a lategame Exp unit) and Fiora has 0 level lead. Level 18 my ass... Have you even TRIED to S Rank HHM? What about EHM? Fuck, with a level 18 Fiora at this point in the game, the best you'll manage for Exp is 3 stars, never mind 5.

Context

I notice in your post for that you are 2628 (21128/18500) exp over the 5 star average. Hell, if we projected the exp rank out beyond 5 stars (50 more exp per chapter), you'd be 8 starring exp. On top of this, throw in how there are more enemies in HHM and 0 requirement chapters, and you'd be doing even better. Argument defeated.

Legitimate

Meanwhile, note how in an actual HHM S-Rank run, Fiora is at level 18 going into the chapter. No Balcerzak is not my ass.

@bold: obvious projection is obvious

Umm... no. Just no. You're almost as bad as Inui at inflating levels. Proof is here again.

Read

Yes, Fiora is only 1.61 to start the chapter, but she hit level 20 way back in Linus 24, there's three whips by 25, and exp at this point was 28,245/22,900 or 5,345 above the 5 star, or a 10 star exp rank projection. You really don't have to sacrifice everything to go overboard with exp rank; cut it short to make life easier.

Heath promoted at the end of last chapter but I was using an unpromoted Florina and Fiora, both nearly at 20/0. Canas and Fiora are both 20/1 MAX (imagine Canas being Rebecca) at this point, not 20/4 to start the chapter.

With regards to C Sain C Kent, that's not exactly happening. C Sain I can buy but Kent is a support pimp with Lyn wanting the man badly. Like "hi there Anima so I get Def and Avo to pad my paper defense" badly. She'll be taking C Kent in 20 turns (by the end of 20 or so) and B Kent after that. Fiora need about 27 turns for C Kent and loses out on B Kent because Lyn wants him that badly and has a headstart. Florina's always available but that's a B at most too since Lyn has the A support locked up. Sucks to be Fiora, huh?

How exactly did that paragraph support C Sain C Kent not happening? And why do we care what Lyn wants if it means reducing Kent/Florina's use? I'll be generous and just say A Florina C Kent and A Florina B Kent give the same amount of defense for now, so C Kent is only logical for Fiora. Extra supports at this point don't really matter at this point since Fiora's already got a crushing win on offense.

Actually, now that I'm debating against 4chan, I feel like I'm fighting a hopeless argument. Cut the psychotactics.