Suichimo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Just hope you kill before you need the healing. Do you have any Mist Potions yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Just hope you kill before you need the healing. Do you have any Mist Potions yet? Mist Potions exist in Book 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) And... SUCCESS! This strategy hinges on a couple things, though: 1. He doesn't hit Bind. I've only seen him hit it on Garet but that immediately screws up the entire strategy. He can use it, he just can't connect with it. Not that he usually does anyway. 2. He doesn't use War Rush on someone who hasn't gone yet. This is probably why I used to have trouble on him (94 Agility and War Rush makes that character not perform their action). 3. He cannot kill Isaac or Garet by his third turn (can't heal with Mia since you don't do enough damage) or Mia or Ivan by his second. Setup: Lv13 Ruffian!Isaac (2 Mars, 1 Venus [Quartz]) with Broad Axe for 153 Att and 86 Fire Power. Lv13 Ruffian!Garet (2 Venus) with Arctic Blade for 149 Att and 104 Fire Power. Lv13 Magician!Ivan (2 Jupiter). Lv13 Hermit!Mia (2 Mercury, 1 Jupiter [Gust]) with 114 Water Power. However, I'm having problems doing the math for EPAs. Anyone want to decifer these paragraphs for me? Physical attacks are based on Relative Attack. They have a Base Damage which is equal to (Relative Attack / 2). A short explanation of random damage is now necessary. In addition to any base damage you do, an addition 0 to 3 damage is always done with each attack. Thus, a base damage of 1000 will actually do between 1000 - 1003. Similarly, a base damage of 0 will actually do between 0 - 3. (Note: Any attack that ends up doing 0 damage will do 1 damage instead, unless the attack is evaded.) Special physical attacks take this Base Damage and modify it with two variables: Mult Mod and Add Mod. The formula used is: Base Damage * Mult Mod + Add Mod Critical hits have an inherent Mult Mod of 1.25. In addition to this, they have a variable Add Mod that depends on the target's Level: the formula being Add Mod = Target's Level / 5 + 6. As an example, if the Base Damage was 200, and the target's Level was 47, then the Add Mod would be 15, and the Critical Hit damage would be: 200 * 1.25 + 15 = 265. The random damage would then be applied to this, giving a final damage of 265 - 268. Elemental Physical Attacks are dealt with in the same way, but have the following extra rule; once the Add Mod and Mult Mod have been applied, Relative Power is then used to determine the Elemental Damage. A Power Multiplier is used for this, using the following formula: Power Multiplier = 1 + Relative Power / 400 This Power Mutliplier is multiplied to the damage, giving a range of 50% to 150% for the final value. Weapon Specials, in addition to having their own Mult Mod and Add Mod, always have an element to go with it. Also, some weapons also have their normal attack considered as an Elemental Physical Attack too; Gaia Blade and Crystal Rod being notable examples. Finally, certain spells are also considered to be Elemental Physical Attacks. Edited September 15, 2010 by 4chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) However, I'm having problems doing the math for EPAs. Anyone want to decifer these paragraphs for me? Physical attacks are based on Relative Attack. They have a Base Damage which is equal to (Relative Attack / 2). A short explanation of random damage is now necessary. In addition to any base damage you do, an addition 0 to 3 damage is always done with each attack. Thus, a base damage of 1000 will actually do between 1000 - 1003. Similarly, a base damage of 0 will actually do between 0 - 3. (Note: Any attack that ends up doing 0 damage will do 1 damage instead, unless the attack is evaded.) Special physical attacks take this Base Damage and modify it with two variables: Mult Mod and Add Mod. The formula used is: Base Damage * Mult Mod + Add Mod Critical hits have an inherent Mult Mod of 1.25. In addition to this, they have a variable Add Mod that depends on the target's Level: the formula being Add Mod = Target's Level / 5 + 6. As an example, if the Base Damage was 200, and the target's Level was 47, then the Add Mod would be 15, and the Critical Hit damage would be: 200 * 1.25 + 15 = 265. The random damage would then be applied to this, giving a final damage of 265 - 268. Elemental Physical Attacks are dealt with in the same way, but have the following extra rule; once the Add Mod and Mult Mod have been applied, Relative Power is then used to determine the Elemental Damage. A Power Multiplier is used for this, using the following formula: Power Multiplier = 1 + Relative Power / 400 This Power Mutliplier is multiplied to the damage, giving a range of 50% to 150% for the final value. Weapon Specials, in addition to having their own Mult Mod and Add Mod, always have an element to go with it. Also, some weapons also have their normal attack considered as an Elemental Physical Attack too; Gaia Blade and Crystal Rod being notable examples. Finally, certain spells are also considered to be Elemental Physical Attacks. Sure, if you could just give us the values for Relative Attack, Mult Mod and Add Mod. I can't insert them if I don't know what the character's Attack stat is or what the physical Psynergy is. Edited September 15, 2010 by Proto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suichimo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Mist Potions exist in Book 1? I think they do. I could be mistaken though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I think they do. I could be mistaken though. They don't. Potion is the highest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) Sure, if you could just give us the values for Relative Attack, Mult Mod and Add Mod. I can't insert them if I don't know what the character's Attack stat is or what the physical Psynergy is. Relative Attack is User Attack - Target Defense. Relative Power is User Power - Target Resist (that element). Mult Mod is 1 and Add Mod is 36 for Planet Diver. And I just answered my own question on how to do the math correctly. EDIT: This is the math for a 3 turn kill of the Killer Ape. Narga, this one is for you, hunny. Oh and Mia has 84 Att (Djinn unleashes are calculated like EPAs with specific Add and Mult Mods). Killer Ape: 1000 HP, 49 Def, 25 Fire Resist, 72 Water Resist Turn 1: Mia casts Impact (+38 Att) on Isaac, giving Isaac 191 Att. Ivan casts Impact (+38 Att) on Isaac, giving Isaac 229 Att. Isaac casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 229 Att - 49 Def = 180 RA Relative Power = 86 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 61 RP Base Damage = 180 RA / 2 = 90 Damage Modified Base Damage = 90 Damage * 1 + 36 = 126 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 61 RP / 400 = 1.1525 Theoretical Damage = 126 Damage * 1.1525 + 0-3 Damage = 145-148 Damage Actual Damage: Isaac casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 148 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 852 Garet casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 149 Att - 49 Def = 100 RA Relative Power = 104 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 79 RP Base Damage = 100 RA / 2 = 50 Damage Modified Base Damage = 50 Damage * 1 + 36 = 86 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 79 RP / 400 = 1.1975 Theoretical Damage = 86 Damage * 1.1975 + 0-3 Damage = 103-106 Damage Actual Damage: Garet casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 105 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 747 Turn 2: Mia casts Impact (+37 Att) on Garet, giving Garet 186 Att. Ivan casts Impact (+37 Att) on Garet, giving Garet 223 Att. Isaac casts Planet Diver (145-148 damage)! Killer Ape takes 147 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 600 Garet casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 223 Att - 49 Def = 174 RA Relative Power = 104 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 79 RP Base Damage = 174 RA / 2 = 87 Damage Modified Base Damage = 87 Damage * 1 + 36 = 123 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 79 RP / 400 = 1.1975 Theoretical Damage = 123 Damage * 1.1975 + 0-3 Damage = 147-150 Damage Actual Damage: Garet casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 148 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 452 Turn 3: Mia unleashes Sleet. Relative Attack = 84 Att - 49 Def = 35 RA Relative Power = 114 Water Power - 72 Water Resist = 42 RP Base Damage = 35 RA / 2 = 18 Damage Modified Base Damage = 18 Damage * 1 + 30 = 48 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 42 RP / 400 = 1.105 Theoretical Damage = 48 Damage * 1.105 + 0-3 Damage = 53-56 Damage Actual Damage: Mia unleashes Sleet! Killer Ape takes 53 damage! Killer Ape HP = 399 Ivan uses an Oil Drop! Killer Ape takes 111 damage!!! 111 damage + 25 Fire Resist = 136 Base Damage from Oil Drop (need confirmation) Killer Ape HP = 288 Isaac casts Planet Diver (145-148 damage)! Killer Ape takes 146 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 142 Garet casts Planet Diver (147-150 damage)! Killer Ape takes 147 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = -5 You felled Killer Ape! Like... Fuck, that's close. Without random damage, the Killer Ape would be left standing with 4 HP after Turn 3. Anyone here know how to hack this game? I wanna try a 0% Growths run ala dondon. It would be fun as hell. Edited September 15, 2010 by 4chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 They don't. Potion is the highest. Potion was ALWAYS the highest. Mist Potion's specialty was to heal the whole party. But yeah, I never saw Mist Potion in Book 1. Relative Attack is User Attack - Target Defense. Relative Power is User Power - Target Resist (that element). Mult Mod is 1 and Add Mod is 36 for Planet Diver. And I just answered my own question on how to do the math correctly. EDIT: This is the math for a 3 turn kill of the Killer Ape. Narga, this one is for you, hunny. Oh and Mia has 84 Att (Djinn unleashes are calculated like EPAs with specific Add and Mult Mods). Killer Ape: 1000 HP, 49 Def, 25 Fire Resist, 72 Water Resist Turn 1: Mia casts Impact (+38 Att) on Isaac, giving Isaac 191 Att. Ivan casts Impact (+38 Att) on Isaac, giving Isaac 229 Att. Isaac casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 229 Att - 49 Def = 180 RA Relative Power = 86 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 61 RP Base Damage = 180 RA / 2 = 90 Damage Modified Base Damage = 90 Damage * 1 + 36 = 126 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 61 RP / 400 = 1.1525 Theoretical Damage = 126 Damage * 1.1525 + 0-3 Damage = 145-148 Damage Actual Damage: Isaac casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 148 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 852 Garet casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 149 Att - 49 Def = 100 RA Relative Power = 104 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 79 RP Base Damage = 100 RA / 2 = 50 Damage Modified Base Damage = 50 Damage * 1 + 36 = 86 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 79 RP / 400 = 1.1975 Theoretical Damage = 86 Damage * 1.1975 + 0-3 Damage = 103-106 Damage Actual Damage: Garet casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 105 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 747 Turn 2: Mia casts Impact (+37 Att) on Garet, giving Garet 186 Att. Ivan casts Impact (+37 Att) on Garet, giving Garet 223 Att. Isaac casts Planet Diver (145-148 damage)! Killer Ape takes 147 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 600 Garet casts Planet Diver. Relative Attack = 223 Att - 49 Def = 174 RA Relative Power = 104 Fire Power - 25 Fire Resist = 79 RP Base Damage = 174 RA / 2 = 87 Damage Modified Base Damage = 87 Damage * 1 + 36 = 123 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 79 RP / 400 = 1.1975 Theoretical Damage = 123 Damage * 1.1975 + 0-3 Damage = 147-150 Damage Actual Damage: Garet casts Planet Diver! Killer Ape takes 148 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 452 Turn 3: Mia unleashes Sleet. Relative Attack = 84 Att - 49 Def = 35 RA Relative Power = 114 Water Power - 72 Water Resist = 42 RP Base Damage = 35 RA / 2 = 18 Damage Modified Base Damage = 18 Damage * 1 + 30 = 48 Damage Power Multiplier = 1 + 42 RP / 400 = 1.105 Theoretical Damage = 48 Damage * 1.105 + 0-3 Damage = 53-56 Damage Actual Damage: Mia unleashes Sleet! Killer Ape takes 53 damage! Killer Ape HP = 399 Ivan uses an Oil Drop! Killer Ape takes 111 damage!!! 111 damage + 25 Fire Resist = 136 Base Damage from Oil Drop (need confirmation) Killer Ape HP = 288 Isaac casts Planet Diver (145-148 damage)! Killer Ape takes 146 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = 142 Garet casts Planet Diver (147-150 damage)! Killer Ape takes 147 damage!!! Killer Ape HP = -5 You felled Killer Ape! Like... Fuck, that's close. Without random damage, the Killer Ape would be left standing with 4 HP after Turn 3. Anyone here know how to hack this game? I wanna try a 0% Growths run ala dondon. It would be fun as hell. Those calculations require quite a bit of luck from the random damage. So if the RNG really hates you, he'll still survive at the end of Turn 3. 0% growths run? Good luck beating Navampa. Or Satrage, or even Azart, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) Those calculations require quite a bit of luck from the random damage. So if the RNG really hates you, he'll still survive at the end of Turn 3. 0% growths run? Good luck beating Navampa. Or Satrage, or even Azart, for that matter. I need a better idea for what Mia should do for damage but I think Sleet's her only option. Hi there summon rush? I can always beat them to the ring, the question is whether or not I can tack on 820 damage against Navampa's 90 Resist (across the board). Edited September 15, 2010 by 4chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suichimo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I'm not even sure how a 0% run would work in this. Its not like Fire Emblem where you have the chance to gain no stats. You get one of two numbers in this for a particular stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I need a better idea for what Mia should do for damage but I think Sleet's her only option. Hi there summon rush? I can always beat them to the ring, the question is whether or not I can tack on 820 damage against Navampa's 90 Resist (across the board). I don't think she does. Her classes aren't known for having high Attack and she likely won't have any of the particularly heavy-hitting Psynergy that's accessible to her (I'm thinking Cutting Edge) Turn 1 Navampa attacks! Isaac took XXX damage! Isaac was downed... Aside from the Colosso though, it just MIGHT be feasible, since you'll still have Djinn, equipment and advanced Psynergy. Besides, you can lose to Navampa anyway. I'm not even sure how a 0% run would work in this. Its not like Fire Emblem where you have the chance to gain no stats. You get one of two numbers in this for a particular stat. It might still be possible to rig it somehow. But I have absolutely no idea on Golden Sun hacking. This is the first time I ever thought about a Golden Sun hack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suichimo Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 You could just hack the game to give no experience. I just watched a video where someone did that and still took out Dullahan, everyone was at their minimum level and the highest level was 18(Piers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 You could just hack the game to give no experience. I just watched a video where someone did that and still took out Dullahan, everyone was at their minimum level and the highest level was 18(Piers). I think he still wants to access the good Psynergy though. Does this mean that there are hackers that can disable experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) Potion was ALWAYS the highest. Mist Potion's specialty was to heal the whole party. But yeah, I never saw Mist Potion in Book 1. Those calculations require quite a bit of luck from the random damage. So if the RNG really hates you, he'll still survive at the end of Turn 3. It would have to really really hate you. There are 7 attacks that appear to be affected by randomness. Assuming uniform distribution, that's an equal chance of 0, 1, 2, or 3 for each of them (25% each). On average, you are looking at 10.5 damage. For him to live you need to do 3 or less total damage. but then, as you level the game can randomly give you a little extra power, right? So it's a little tougher to say how much extra damage you need to cause. But going off his power levels, the RNG would have to hate you a ton for it to not kill the thing. I'm not going to bother calculating the chance of doing 3 or less since it would be too much of a pain. And yeah, to emulate dondon's 0% growths runs I see no reason not to allow the characters to learn psynergy like normal. Edited September 15, 2010 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) It might still be possible to rig it somehow. But I have absolutely no idea on Golden Sun hacking. This is the first time I ever thought about a Golden Sun hack. I know exactly what you'd have to change. I just have no clue about hacking stuff. Gaining stats in this game works on a goal system. The game sets a goal of how much HP or whatever you need by level 19 and you gain a certain amount of that stat until you get to that goal at that specific level. All you need to do is change the goals to match the base stats of each character and off you go. You still gain the Psynergy at whatever level since you get Exp, you just don't gain stats. On this type of run, Psynergy, defensive Djinn and Summons would be god. None of those three care about growths that you get in the game since they're all based on elemental levels which have a base of 76 at the least and a max of 139 if you've gone mono-element. The real problems would be EPAs and Djinn attacking. However, Granite (divide all damage by 2) would make most of the early and midgame pretty easy (from Kolima Forest to about Lamarkan Desert at least) and combining that with Torch would break the last couple of places (divide all damage by 10) for sure. Shade (GS2) is another one of those game-breaking Djinn in this kind of run. Edited September 15, 2010 by 4chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 I know exactly what you'd have to change. I just have no clue about hacking stuff. Gaining stats in this game works on a goal system. The game sets a goal of how much HP or whatever you need by level 19 and you gain a certain amount of that stat until you get to that goal at that specific level. All you need to do is change the goals to match the base stats of each character and off you go. You still gain the Psynergy at whatever level since you get Exp, you just don't gain stats. But don't different classes have different goals? Which means, you'll have to change the goals for every single class combination in the game for every single character. On this type of run, Psynergy, defensive Djinn and Summons would be god. None of those three care about growths that you get in the game since they're all based on elemental levels which have a base of 76 at the least and a max of 139 if you've gone mono-element. The real problems would be EPAs and Djinn attacking. However, Granite (divide all damage by 2) would make most of the early and midgame pretty easy (from Kolima Forest to about Lamarkan Desert at least) and combining that with Torch would break the last couple of places (divide all damage by 10) for sure. Shade (GS2) is another one of those game-breaking Djinn in this kind of run. Flash, not Torch. You're gonna have to use summons a whole lot then. And with base defenses and HP, it might be difficult to survive. Also, once you get Flash in Suhalla Desert, the rest of the game immediately becomes really really easy, because you'll then be able to use a barrier Djinn every single turn. You'll have to keep two people occupied for that though, but it's definitely worth it. In a normal run, even Deadbeard and Fusion Dragon have no way of breaking through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 But don't different classes have different goals? Which means, you'll have to change the goals for every single class combination in the game for every single character. Here's what I know from GS2. I figure it's the same way in GS1. At the start of Lost Age, your characters are given the following base stats: HP PP Att Def Agi Lck Isaac 30 20 13 6 8 3 Garet 33 18 11 8 6 2 Ivan 28 24 8 4 11 4 Mia 29 23 9 5 7 5 Felix 32 19 13 6 7 2 Jenna 29 21 10 5 8 4 Sheba 28 24 8 4 10 5 Piers 30 19 11 7 6 3 These are the characters' Level 0 stats. The very base they start from. As soon as you hit New Game, they are then levelled up to the following levels: Isaac: L28 Felix: L 5 Garet: L28 Jenna: L 5 Ivan: L28 Sheba: L 5 Mia: L28 Piers: L18 The way characters' level up bears looking at at this point. It is done via a Goal system; each character has a stat value at specified goal levels that gives them a rough path to follow. However, there is a slight random variation to it. Let us go through an example. An L0 Isaac's last goal was his base, which was 30 HP. His next goal target is at L19 is 182. That's a difference of 152 HP. This 152 is the magic number. The game divides this difference over 20 levels (it doesn't matter that you only get 19 levels between L0 and L19, it's still divided by 20). So, 152 divided by 20 gives us 7.6 per level. This is where the random variance comes in. The fractional part of the division we did just a second ago is your percentage chance that you will actually round up instead of down. You have a 60% chance of getting 8 during a level up during that period between L0 and L19. It follows, of course, that you have a 40% chance of getting a 7 instead. This goes for all the characters with all the stats. You always have a percentage chance of either rounding up, or rounding down. One slight technicality that should be mentioned is that although I said a percentage chance, this is actually a chance out of 256. So it isn't *exactly* 60%. Because of this, the chances are often slightly skewed one way or another. Let's summarise through some formulas: Let x = Last Goal Let y = Next Goal Difference = d = (y - x) Base Growth per Level = b = [d / 20] Chance of gaining additional +1 = c = (d - 20b) * 256 / 20, rounded to out of 256 nearest integer So, looking at our last example: x = 30 y = 182 d = (182 - 30) = 152 b = [152 / 20] = [7.6] = 7 c = ((152 - 20*7) * 256 / 20) = (12 * 256 / 20) = 153.6 = 154 after rounding to nearest integer Thus, we discover there is exactly a 154/256 chance of getting a 8 rather than a 7 when Isaac levels up between L0-L19. We shall now move on to the important data. The first set of tables will show the goal points for *each* stat for all characters. This could be said to be the *average* stat that character should have at that level. (Note, however, that because the first section only covers levelling up to levels 1-19, that the true average will be the goal value minus the average level up value from L0-19) The second set of tables will be more focused on the actual levelling up, informing you of the minimum stat up and chance to hit the maximum for each stat for each character. Luck will be absent from both the first and second tables, since the L0 value was given above and it stays the same through all level ups. The third and final set of tables will simply give the full range and average stat each character will have at the start of Lost Age. Let's begin. GOAL VALUES =========== __HP________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 30 182 334 486 638 790 Garet 33 191 351 510 670 830 Ivan 28 166 304 442 581 719 Mia___________29________173________317________462________606________751___ Felix 32 187 342 498 654 810 Jenna 29 177 326 474 622 770 Sheba 28 169 311 452 593 735 Piers 30 184 337 491 644 798 ========================================================================== __PP________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 20 80 130 170 210 250 Garet 18 76 124 162 200 238 Ivan 24 92 150 196 242 288 Mia___________23_________90________146________190________235________280___ Felix 19 78 127 166 205 244 Jenna 21 85 138 180 223 265 Sheba 24 91 148 193 238 284 Piers 19 79 129 168 208 248 ========================================================================== _Att________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 13 86 162 237 313 388 Garet 11 83 156 228 301 373 Ivan 8 76 144 211 277 344 Mia____________9_________79________150________220________289________359___ Felix 13 87 164 240 316 392 Jenna 10 81 153 224 295 366 Sheba 8 78 147 215 283 351 Piers 11 82 155 226 298 370 ========================================================================== _Def________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 6 38 69 102 134 166 Garet 8 41 75 110 144 179 Ivan 4 35 65 95 124 155 Mia____________5_________37_________68________100________131________163___ Felix 6 38 70 103 135 168 Jenna 5 37 69 101 132 165 Sheba 4 36 66 98 128 159 Piers 7 39 72 106 139 173 ========================================================================== _Agi________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 8 86 163 241 318 396 Garet 6 76 144 212 281 349 Ivan 11 91 173 255 337 419 Mia____________7_________80________152________224________296________369___ Felix 7 83 158 232 307 382 Jenna 8 85 162 238 315 392 Sheba 10 88 168 248 328 407 Piers 6 78 148 218 289 359 ========================================================================== LEVEL UP TABLES =============== Under each column, the leftmost number is the base growth (B), and the rightmost number is the chance out of 256 © of getting 'b+1' in this level range. A row of dashes ('---') means that the chance of getting a higher value than the base growth is 0. __HP___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) Garet 7 (230) 8 --- 7 (243) 8 --- 8 --- Ivan 6 (230) 6 (230) 6 (230) 6 (243) 6 (230) Mia_____________7_( 51)_____7_( 51)_____7_( 64)_____7_( 51)_____7_( 64)___ Felix 7 (192) 7 (192) 7 (205) 7 (205) 7 (205) Jenna 7 (102) 7 (115) 7 (102) 7 (102) 7 (102) Sheba 7 ( 13) 7 ( 26) 7 ( 13) 7 ( 13) 7 ( 26) Piers 7 (179) 7 (166) 7 (179) 7 (166) 7 (179) ========================================================================== __PP___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 --- 2 (128) 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- Garet 2 (230) 2 (102) 1 (230) 1 (230) 1 (230) Ivan 3 (102) 2 (230) 2 ( 77) 2 ( 77) 2 ( 77) Mia_____________3_( 90)_____2_(205)_____2_( 51)_____2_( 64)_____2_( 64)___ Felix 2 (243) 2 (115) 1 (243) 1 (243) 1 (243) Jenna 3 ( 51) 2 (166) 2 ( 26) 2 ( 38) 2 ( 26) Sheba 3 ( 90) 2 (218) 2 ( 64) 2 ( 64) 2 ( 77) Piers 3 --- 2 (128) 1 (243) 2 --- 2 --- ========================================================================== _Att___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 (166) 3 (205) 3 (192) 3 (205) 3 (192) Garet 3 (154) 3 (166) 3 (154) 3 (166) 3 (154) Ivan 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 ( 90) 3 ( 77) 3 ( 90) Mia_____________3_(128)_____3_(141)_____3_(128)_____3_(115)_____3_(128)___ Felix 3 (179) 3 (218) 3 (205) 3 (205) 3 (205) Jenna 3 (141) 3 (154) 3 (141) 3 (141) 3 (141) Sheba 3 (128) 3 (115) 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 (102) Piers 3 (141) 3 (166) 3 (141) 3 (154) 3 (154) ========================================================================== _Def___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 1 (154) 1 (141) 1 (166) 1 (154) 1 (154) Garet 1 (166) 1 (179) 1 (192) 1 (179) 1 (192) Ivan 1 (141) 1 (128) 1 (128) 1 (115) 1 (141) Mia_____________1_(154)_____1_(141)_____1_(154)_____1_(141)_____1_(154)___ Felix 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (166) 1 (154) 1 (166) Jenna 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (141) 1 (166) Sheba 1 (154) 1 (128) 1 (154) 1 (128) 1 (141) Piers 1 (154) 1 (166) 1 (179) 1 (166) 1 (179) ========================================================================== _Agi___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 (230) 3 (218) 3 (230) 3 (218) 3 (230) Garet 3 (128) 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 (115) 3 (102) Ivan 4 --- 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) Mia_____________3_(166)_____3_(154)_____3_(154)_____3_(154)_____3_(166)___ Felix 3 (205) 3 (192) 3 (179) 3 (192) 3 (192) Jenna 3 (218) 3 (218) 3 (205) 3 (218) 3 (218) Sheba 3 (230) 4 --- 4 --- 4 --- 3 (243) Piers 3 (154) 3 (128) 3 (128) 3 (141) 3 (128) ========================================================================== LOST AGE STARTING STATS ======================= Start HP PP _Name____Level_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg________Luck______________ Isaac 28 226-254 (243) 95-104 (100) 3 Garet 28 238-257 (255) 74-102 ( 95) 2 Ivan 28 196-224 (221) 99-127 (115) 4 Mia________28______225-253_(231)_____98-126_(112)_________5_______________ Felix 5 67- 72 ( 71) 29- 34 ( 34) 2 Jenna 5 64- 69 ( 66) 36- 41 ( 37) 4 Sheba 5 63- 68 ( 63) 39- 44 ( 41) 5 Piers 18 156-174 (169) 73- 73 ( 73) 3 ========================================================================== Start Attack Defense Agility _Name____Level_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg_________ Isaac 28 97-125 (117) 34- 62 ( 50) 92-120 (117) Garet 28 95-123 (112) 36- 64 ( 55) 90-118 (103) Ivan 28 92-120 (103) 32- 60 ( 47) 123-132 (124) Mia________28_______93-121_(107)____ 33- 61_( 49)_____91-119_(109)________ Felix 5 28- 33 ( 31) 11- 16 ( 14) 22- 27 ( 26) Jenna 5 25- 30 ( 28) 10- 15 ( 13) 23- 28 ( 27) Sheba 5 23- 28 ( 26) 9- 14 ( 12) 25- 30 ( 29) Piers 18 65- 83 ( 75) 25- 43 ( 36) 60- 78 ( 71) ========================================================================== If you have transferred data from the original Golden Sun, then Isaac, Garet, Ivan and Mia will have stats reflecting exactly what you transferred over. However, if you used a Bronze Password, note that Isaac's party will only have their *levels* updated. Their stats will instead be within the ranges defined above. This can have advantages or disadvantages, depending on what level your party was when you transferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Here's what I know from GS2. I figure it's the same way in GS1. At the start of Lost Age, your characters are given the following base stats: HP PP Att Def Agi Lck Isaac 30 20 13 6 8 3 Garet 33 18 11 8 6 2 Ivan 28 24 8 4 11 4 Mia 29 23 9 5 7 5 Felix 32 19 13 6 7 2 Jenna 29 21 10 5 8 4 Sheba 28 24 8 4 10 5 Piers 30 19 11 7 6 3 These are the characters' Level 0 stats. The very base they start from. As soon as you hit New Game, they are then levelled up to the following levels: Isaac: L28 Felix: L 5 Garet: L28 Jenna: L 5 Ivan: L28 Sheba: L 5 Mia: L28 Piers: L18 The way characters' level up bears looking at at this point. It is done via a Goal system; each character has a stat value at specified goal levels that gives them a rough path to follow. However, there is a slight random variation to it. Let us go through an example. An L0 Isaac's last goal was his base, which was 30 HP. His next goal target is at L19 is 182. That's a difference of 152 HP. This 152 is the magic number. The game divides this difference over 20 levels (it doesn't matter that you only get 19 levels between L0 and L19, it's still divided by 20). So, 152 divided by 20 gives us 7.6 per level. This is where the random variance comes in. The fractional part of the division we did just a second ago is your percentage chance that you will actually round up instead of down. You have a 60% chance of getting 8 during a level up during that period between L0 and L19. It follows, of course, that you have a 40% chance of getting a 7 instead. This goes for all the characters with all the stats. You always have a percentage chance of either rounding up, or rounding down. One slight technicality that should be mentioned is that although I said a percentage chance, this is actually a chance out of 256. So it isn't *exactly* 60%. Because of this, the chances are often slightly skewed one way or another. Let's summarise through some formulas: Let x = Last Goal Let y = Next Goal Difference = d = (y - x) Base Growth per Level = b = [d / 20] Chance of gaining additional +1 = c = (d - 20b) * 256 / 20, rounded to out of 256 nearest integer So, looking at our last example: x = 30 y = 182 d = (182 - 30) = 152 b = [152 / 20] = [7.6] = 7 c = ((152 - 20*7) * 256 / 20) = (12 * 256 / 20) = 153.6 = 154 after rounding to nearest integer Thus, we discover there is exactly a 154/256 chance of getting a 8 rather than a 7 when Isaac levels up between L0-L19. We shall now move on to the important data. The first set of tables will show the goal points for *each* stat for all characters. This could be said to be the *average* stat that character should have at that level. (Note, however, that because the first section only covers levelling up to levels 1-19, that the true average will be the goal value minus the average level up value from L0-19) The second set of tables will be more focused on the actual levelling up, informing you of the minimum stat up and chance to hit the maximum for each stat for each character. Luck will be absent from both the first and second tables, since the L0 value was given above and it stays the same through all level ups. The third and final set of tables will simply give the full range and average stat each character will have at the start of Lost Age. Let's begin. GOAL VALUES =========== __HP________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 30 182 334 486 638 790 Garet 33 191 351 510 670 830 Ivan 28 166 304 442 581 719 Mia___________29________173________317________462________606________751___ Felix 32 187 342 498 654 810 Jenna 29 177 326 474 622 770 Sheba 28 169 311 452 593 735 Piers 30 184 337 491 644 798 ========================================================================== __PP________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 20 80 130 170 210 250 Garet 18 76 124 162 200 238 Ivan 24 92 150 196 242 288 Mia___________23_________90________146________190________235________280___ Felix 19 78 127 166 205 244 Jenna 21 85 138 180 223 265 Sheba 24 91 148 193 238 284 Piers 19 79 129 168 208 248 ========================================================================== _Att________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 13 86 162 237 313 388 Garet 11 83 156 228 301 373 Ivan 8 76 144 211 277 344 Mia____________9_________79________150________220________289________359___ Felix 13 87 164 240 316 392 Jenna 10 81 153 224 295 366 Sheba 8 78 147 215 283 351 Piers 11 82 155 226 298 370 ========================================================================== _Def________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 6 38 69 102 134 166 Garet 8 41 75 110 144 179 Ivan 4 35 65 95 124 155 Mia____________5_________37_________68________100________131________163___ Felix 6 38 70 103 135 168 Jenna 5 37 69 101 132 165 Sheba 4 36 66 98 128 159 Piers 7 39 72 106 139 173 ========================================================================== _Agi________L__0_______L_19_______L_39_______L_59_______L_79_______L_99___ Isaac 8 86 163 241 318 396 Garet 6 76 144 212 281 349 Ivan 11 91 173 255 337 419 Mia____________7_________80________152________224________296________369___ Felix 7 83 158 232 307 382 Jenna 8 85 162 238 315 392 Sheba 10 88 168 248 328 407 Piers 6 78 148 218 289 359 ========================================================================== LEVEL UP TABLES =============== Under each column, the leftmost number is the base growth (B), and the rightmost number is the chance out of 256 © of getting 'b+1' in this level range. A row of dashes ('---') means that the chance of getting a higher value than the base growth is 0. __HP___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) 7 (154) Garet 7 (230) 8 --- 7 (243) 8 --- 8 --- Ivan 6 (230) 6 (230) 6 (230) 6 (243) 6 (230) Mia_____________7_( 51)_____7_( 51)_____7_( 64)_____7_( 51)_____7_( 64)___ Felix 7 (192) 7 (192) 7 (205) 7 (205) 7 (205) Jenna 7 (102) 7 (115) 7 (102) 7 (102) 7 (102) Sheba 7 ( 13) 7 ( 26) 7 ( 13) 7 ( 13) 7 ( 26) Piers 7 (179) 7 (166) 7 (179) 7 (166) 7 (179) ========================================================================== __PP___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 --- 2 (128) 2 --- 2 --- 2 --- Garet 2 (230) 2 (102) 1 (230) 1 (230) 1 (230) Ivan 3 (102) 2 (230) 2 ( 77) 2 ( 77) 2 ( 77) Mia_____________3_( 90)_____2_(205)_____2_( 51)_____2_( 64)_____2_( 64)___ Felix 2 (243) 2 (115) 1 (243) 1 (243) 1 (243) Jenna 3 ( 51) 2 (166) 2 ( 26) 2 ( 38) 2 ( 26) Sheba 3 ( 90) 2 (218) 2 ( 64) 2 ( 64) 2 ( 77) Piers 3 --- 2 (128) 1 (243) 2 --- 2 --- ========================================================================== _Att___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 (166) 3 (205) 3 (192) 3 (205) 3 (192) Garet 3 (154) 3 (166) 3 (154) 3 (166) 3 (154) Ivan 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 ( 90) 3 ( 77) 3 ( 90) Mia_____________3_(128)_____3_(141)_____3_(128)_____3_(115)_____3_(128)___ Felix 3 (179) 3 (218) 3 (205) 3 (205) 3 (205) Jenna 3 (141) 3 (154) 3 (141) 3 (141) 3 (141) Sheba 3 (128) 3 (115) 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 (102) Piers 3 (141) 3 (166) 3 (141) 3 (154) 3 (154) ========================================================================== _Def___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 1 (154) 1 (141) 1 (166) 1 (154) 1 (154) Garet 1 (166) 1 (179) 1 (192) 1 (179) 1 (192) Ivan 1 (141) 1 (128) 1 (128) 1 (115) 1 (141) Mia_____________1_(154)_____1_(141)_____1_(154)_____1_(141)_____1_(154)___ Felix 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (166) 1 (154) 1 (166) Jenna 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (154) 1 (141) 1 (166) Sheba 1 (154) 1 (128) 1 (154) 1 (128) 1 (141) Piers 1 (154) 1 (166) 1 (179) 1 (166) 1 (179) ========================================================================== _Agi___________L 0-19_____L 20-39_____L 40-59_____L 60-79_____L 80-99____ Isaac 3 (230) 3 (218) 3 (230) 3 (218) 3 (230) Garet 3 (128) 3 (102) 3 (102) 3 (115) 3 (102) Ivan 4 --- 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) 4 ( 26) Mia_____________3_(166)_____3_(154)_____3_(154)_____3_(154)_____3_(166)___ Felix 3 (205) 3 (192) 3 (179) 3 (192) 3 (192) Jenna 3 (218) 3 (218) 3 (205) 3 (218) 3 (218) Sheba 3 (230) 4 --- 4 --- 4 --- 3 (243) Piers 3 (154) 3 (128) 3 (128) 3 (141) 3 (128) ========================================================================== LOST AGE STARTING STATS ======================= Start HP PP _Name____Level_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg________Luck______________ Isaac 28 226-254 (243) 95-104 (100) 3 Garet 28 238-257 (255) 74-102 ( 95) 2 Ivan 28 196-224 (221) 99-127 (115) 4 Mia________28______225-253_(231)_____98-126_(112)_________5_______________ Felix 5 67- 72 ( 71) 29- 34 ( 34) 2 Jenna 5 64- 69 ( 66) 36- 41 ( 37) 4 Sheba 5 63- 68 ( 63) 39- 44 ( 41) 5 Piers 18 156-174 (169) 73- 73 ( 73) 3 ========================================================================== Start Attack Defense Agility _Name____Level_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg_____Min_Max__Avg_________ Isaac 28 97-125 (117) 34- 62 ( 50) 92-120 (117) Garet 28 95-123 (112) 36- 64 ( 55) 90-118 (103) Ivan 28 92-120 (103) 32- 60 ( 47) 123-132 (124) Mia________28_______93-121_(107)____ 33- 61_( 49)_____91-119_(109)________ Felix 5 28- 33 ( 31) 11- 16 ( 14) 22- 27 ( 26) Jenna 5 25- 30 ( 28) 10- 15 ( 13) 23- 28 ( 27) Sheba 5 23- 28 ( 26) 9- 14 ( 12) 25- 30 ( 29) Piers 18 65- 83 ( 75) 25- 43 ( 36) 60- 78 ( 71) ========================================================================== If you have transferred data from the original Golden Sun, then Isaac, Garet, Ivan and Mia will have stats reflecting exactly what you transferred over. However, if you used a Bronze Password, note that Isaac's party will only have their *levels* updated. Their stats will instead be within the ranges defined above. This can have advantages or disadvantages, depending on what level your party was when you transferred. I get it now, thanks. These stats come entirely from the characters alone, right? Which means these values are decided first and AFTER THAT, the class, Djinn, and equipment bonuses are factored in. I knew that equipment and Djinn did not affect the core stats but I incorrectly used to think that stat growths were class-dependent. Thanks for clearing it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) All this serious discussion. Damn, seems like Life is about ready to throw out a tier list for goodness sakes! This will be a fairly short update till the Mercury Lighthouse. And Fia. Full Party Yay! And Cutting Edge! Anyways Chapter 7: Caves and The Cold North. We head into Biblin Cave. See that little sprout? Using growth on it makes it a climbable vine. Leads us to this. Yay. Give to Roxas. Ghouls and a slime. The slime makes copies. Nothing else noteworthy. Pushing that fire towards that ice block melts it. Shade: Is it just me, or is it getting really cold out? Furby: What are you talking about? It feels great outside! Furby, you're a Mars adept. You don't do cold. Furby: Not my problem. The nut 2.0. Heals 500 HP. Endgame item pretty much. Hell, we still have all our nuts! The Elven Rapier's Unleash. Looks sweet, but why is it a slash? Lack of research I assume. Outside we go! New enemies are the bears. Think trolls minus regeneration. Imil. The Mercury Lighthouse is northeast of us. Everyone is goddamn sick. Come on. We cannot even get new weapons and armor which blows. We can get items though, thankfully. I'm... I'm sorry for your loss. Girl: What are you talking about? ... That is kinda sad. Then why the hell are you outside?! Dude: I dunno... Move that snowman to get to a treat. Fever, funny enough, since everyone has one. that's 6 djinn. Actually no I haven't. Why? Girl: You just missed Fia. She went there to help them. How? I wonder... Meet Fia. She knows Ply. She is a Water Adept. Ply is cure +30. Something flashes! Fia: That can't be. Why is it lit? Only I can... Furby: Damn, the lit the lighthouse. Let's move! And she runs out. And that's it for this relatively short update. Next time on Chapter 8: Fia, Lighthouse Climbing, and Revenge! Also I'm grinding to ten before lighthouse, so I match levels with Fia. Now Class reviews! Druid (Seer, Diviner, Shaman, Druid) This class has been really useful on Shade as of late. Strong AGI plus Lots off PP is good for a Mage class. It gets access to the cure and revive family for healing. Fia will even get the wish series to boot! Depending on who has the class; Shade gets the bolt family, while Fia gets the Froth family. Both get the growth family. Shade gets a few buff and debuff psynergy, while Fia gets access to more healing psynergy. Overall, they are a solid class. Early on, Shade makes a great Seer due to a higher PP base, and use of duel elemental attack psynergy. Later on, Fia gets better psynergy. She still keeps the duel attack psynergy, but she gets the wish series, which is better than anything Shade has to offer. The Lost Age: Not much changes, besides the stat boosts being increased. Oracle is the name of the upgrade. Link Play/Arena: Shade should look elsewhere, but Fia would make great use of this class. Overall, this is a solid class. It doesn't have Ply power, but ply is excessive anyway, and both types get Revive. Fia's is a little better due to wish access, but early game is more difficult, so Shade still makes great use of it. I'd say 9.0/10 (Yes it has been that useful. Life my boy, great suggestion.) Conjurer (Apprentice/Page, Illusionist, Enchanter, Conjurer) This is a fun class. Early game Gaia is WTF win. Furby gets the Eruption Family instead. At 11 they get Astral Blast which like Ragnarok and Planet Diver, does damage. Later, to FURTHER augment the ass kicking they dish out, they get the Impact family. They also get a load of debuffing Psynergy for whenever you may need it. Also Psy Drain, which is always a plus. Roxas is a little better due to Gaia, but the Eruption Family is WTF strong. So come endgame they even out. Oddly enough, this family of classes just get better and better as you continue through the game, so it's hard not to recommend them. Also to not, they get High PP AND solid ATT for a physical class, which is awesome to spam Impact and Astral Blast. The Lost Age: War Adepts. MOAR PP and even better ATT. Also, Thunder Mine is sweet as well. Not as strong as others but, I think it hits multiple targets (Could someone check that for me? Also wind, explained below) Loads of HP. What at 90% boost?! Shame the entire family gets a -10% luck or I'd give it a perfect score. Link Play/Arena: Recommended. Lots of PP plus Impact and solid attacking psynergy (Dullahan is weak to wind BTW), means they dish it out. Constantly. Overall: 9.5/10 This class is kicking ass and taking names. Edited September 15, 2010 by IntegerZero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 (edited) Seer: Ward and Resist knock your resistance up which isn't as useful as Guard and Protect if you ask me. But the real problem with this class is its lack of power behind the high level Psynergy. Sure Ivan learns Blue Bolt at 22 and Wild Growth at 29. So what? Wild Growth has a 110 Dam base. Blue Bolt is even worse with a 90 Dam base. You know what's stronger than that? Shine Plasma (100 Dam) and Ivan learns it at 26 as a White Mage, Wind Seer, Hermit or Pilgrim. And I haven't even mentioned Spark Plasma (180 Dam) yet. The Cure series is quite nice for the earlygame along with Revive, though. But we're still talking 8/10 max IMO. Page/Apprentice: There's too many reasons why this class is so good. Astral Blast is the only Wind EPA with an Add Mod of 32. And it only costs 5 PP. Mia and Wind Djinni don't mix well meaning that you'll get a chance to be using this class. Impact (5) and High Impact (21) when you get to Enchanter (remember how I needed to casts 4 Impacts to 3 turn the Killer Ape? With High Impact, it'd take 1 turn). If it hits, Sleep is awesome. Isaac and Garet actually have enough PP to use Grand Gaia and Pyroclasm unlike their base classes. Drain and Psy Drain are low cost HP and PP healing moves. Fuck, this is a 10/10 right here. And if Isaac had access to the Cure series and Revive (earth based), this class would be broken for him. Also, don't forget to do these classes when you can access them: Shaman (Wind) - Isaac Shaman (Water) - Isaac Ascetic (Water) - Garet Ascetic (Wind) - Garet Enchanter (Earth) - Ivan Enchanter (Fire) - Ivan Cavalier (Fire) - Mia Cavalier (Earth) - Mia Dragoon Ninja Samurai Ranger Medium White Mage Honestly, I love this game. The concepts that it uses are pretty simplistic and yet there's so many options for how to kill enemies best. Want to summon beings far greater than anything your opponents have seen? Bring in Ramses or Artemis or even fucking Boreas and watch things die. What about the Djinn? Use them to buff yourself, attack your enemies and even stop damage. What about powerful magic? We have that right here. And you actually gain PP while you walk (this is something Final Fantasy should have implemented in their games a long time ago, I'm sick of running out of MP for Vivi halfway through a dungeon). And don't forget about weapon roars too. Like I said, I love this game. Edited September 15, 2010 by 4chan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 Also, you forgot that Forge can increase the Party's attack. Would using that mess up your strat against the Killer Ape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 And you actually gain PP while you walk (this is something Final Fantasy should have implemented in their games a long time ago, I'm sick of running out of MP for Vivi halfway through a dungeon). No, they just decided to randomly either give you a somewhat broken spell called Osmose/Aspil/whatever relatively early (ff2, ff6), or make it too weak to do any good (fe4, I think it was really weak there), or make it come really late (ff5), or not give it to you at all (ff3). Don't know how or if it presented itself in 7 to 13. And sometimes they are really nice and give you an item/ability that reduces MP cost to 1. Other games it only gives you the one that cuts cost in half (I forget, does Golden Sun have one of those? I hope so, but don't remember). And don't forget about weapon roars too. Those were fun. Though I prefer Lufia 2's IP attacks. It's still based on your equipment, but you have control over when it happens and your other equipment (not just weapons) can do stuff too. And I guess it's like limit breaks since you need to take damage to build IP (though I assume lufia 2 came before ff7). I prefer IP abilities over unleashes. However, unleashes are cooler than how 80% to 90% of weapons in ff games tend to do nothing but straight damage. Sure, you get things like Illumina/Lightbringer in ff6 that randomly casts Pearl/Holy and stuff like that in most games, but most of the weapons never do anything special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 Since I feel like being awesome. Another update. Massive to boot. Chapter 8: Fia, Lighthouse Climbing, and Revenge! In we go. Empty... That might be handy. Fia is hearing something. We know who it is. Fia: Who could it be? You'll find out I'm sure. She is stuck, so we help out. She freaks out a little. We explain what happened. Yep. I can move things with my mind. Yes they are. They guard this lighthouse. We guard the unadulterated power of alchemy. She is stuck again. Monster this time. ATTACK! Lizard Man are easy. They do water blessing, but it does minor damage. Important later on. Stuck a third time. Another push and... Remember those voices? We're here to stop them. The third time IS the charm. Full party let's go! She comes with one water Djinn by the way. Fizz heals. Some waterfalls you can go through. Not these though. The slimes are not new, but the squid is. Nothing to note either. Pipe puzzles. Exactly the same as log puzzles, but... See the jets? The push you in the direction they go. First Psy Crystal. They fully restore PP of one person. What's nice are that they are an item. Here is Ice. And Frost. Both are fairly weak. Cool note, from here on out, Fia always recovers 4 PP per turn. Nice! Lookie here... Weren't we here before? Shade: Yeah we were. Furby: How are supposed to get off!? Fia: I'll show you. Now the platforms like the one in the middle let us jump across water three times. Furby: Woah! Cool! Sirens. They stare at you to lower attack. They still die quickly. Tundra by the way. More on the next post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegerZero Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 Activate Adept! Another attack! Some chests can be mimics. They progressively get stronger. Think mini-bosses like Djinn. They use a variety of Psynergy. Mostly status Psynergy at the moment. Gave me a Water of Life. Fia's Witch's Wand unleash. Yummy stuff. Furby has the Fur coat (Which he needs for here), so Roxas gets to enjoy the new armor. I sometimes don't remove till much later. 20 PP is THAT important. Drowning for the LULZ. No water means no jumping on the water. In the door is the needed pipe puzzle. That' better. A classic switch puzzle straight from LoZ. Gotta push that statue with the water jets. We move on.. That statue led to another nut. Those water jets can even push walls! Damn Furby: WTF! Shade: Dude that's intense. Fia: Huh, even I didn't know that. The second mercury djinn. Mini-Boss number 2. Uses a large variety of water psynergy. Thankfully not ply. Level 11. That means Cutting Edge. Also 8 Djinn. Astral Blast. Kirby would be proud. And that's why these types of Psynergy rock. That's not even Super Effective damage. Last room before boss. Use Ply on statue. Before though... Djinn Setup. Roxas and Furby both Swordsman for Cutting Edge. Granite goes to Furby, cause he can use it before everything and not lose CE. Shade has Cure and Cure Well. Fia, well. Yeah. Reverse Waterfall FTW! Next post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Overall, this is a solid class. It doesn't have Ply power, but ply is excessive anyway, and both types get Revive. Fia's is a little better due to wish access, but early game is more difficult, so Shade still makes great use of it. imo it's a good thing that this class doesn't have Ply. Because of that, it contains Cure, which could be used by both Shade and Fia (since they both need Venus Djinn to access this class). If the designers decided to put Ply instead of Cure, then Shade wouldn't be able to heal with it. The Lost Age: War Adepts. MOAR PP and even better ATT. Also, Thunder Mine is sweet as well. Not as strong as others but, I think it hits multiple targets (Could someone check that for me? Also wind, explained below) Loads of HP. What at 90% boost?! Shame the entire family gets a -10% luck or I'd give it a perfect score. Nah, Thunder Mine hits one target. I don't think there's ANY EPA in the game that hits multiple targets. Overall: 9.5/10 This class is kicking ass and taking names. I would personally rate the Page version a little less but Apprentice definitely deserves 9.5 imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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