Fans of Micaiah, Convince Me

[EnzanIjuuin]

I just completed Radiant Dawn. I have to admit, I was very disappointed at the sight of Micaiah when I first started the game. As I played through it, I found very little that would endear her to me, and even now that I've finished, I can't seem to like her all too much. And since I normally like every character (to various degrees, with various exceptions), it's a bit of a shock to me.

So I'm hoping that someone out there has caught something about Micaiah that I actually missed. Something that makes her a great character, personality wise. Or gameplay wise....I mean, the fact that my Micaiah is totally RNG-screwed and that she kept on dying doesn't help. XD;;

*rant removed because my intentions behind it seemed misphrased*

Edited September 15, 2010 by EnzanIjuuin

[RNG Princess]

she's not interesting at all personality-wise but as a unit she's actually more than decent, I find her good actually. Simply for sacrifice, staves, Thani, and utility convenience. She's not a front line fighter but she's excellent for range attacking. Sacrifice + Wrath can make her more valuable as a fighter in Part 1 although you'd have to be more careful with her, but its not like she's already dying anyways. Then you don't have to bring an extra healer for endgame because she's likely reached S rank in staves and she can do all the work as a healer instead and so you get to bring another fighter.

Personally I like having Micaiah fight Ike in that chapter prior to 3-E and I personally like that she's a mage lord since sword lords are overused. However she's such a Mary Sue.

Still you can't compare someone like Ike to Micaiah or vice-versa because their way of helping out the team is useful but different (except his combat is probably more helpful here).

They should make female lords more interesting next time. Lyn was quite boring IMO. Eirika was the best and my favorite so far but she could have been developed a little bit more ;). idk about that other girl from the second game and idk if Elincia would count as a lord (if she does she's the best <3)

Edited September 15, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[chococoke]

I always thought Micaiah was interesting. Don't get me wrong, her personality is about as interesting as a sack of bricks. However, she's the first lord I've noticed that doesn't become h4x by endgame... She's a magic using main lord, the first (for me, anyway.)

She's a staff user. Her magic stat usually always caps given that it's one of her highest growths, so if you use BEXP on her, her magic will be shooting up. Her durability is crap, but that's kind of interesting in a sick way. She's a main lord that needs protecting, kind of how you'd imagine most main lords should be.

I still hate her.

[Anouleth]

Micaiah, I'm sorry, but you're just not appealing yourself to me. Somewhat boring personality, horrible stats, horrible growth (well, perhaps it's just because RNG hates her) and blah. If I could do without her in the field, I actually would.

Then you're wrong. Micaiah is not a combat master like Sothe, Nolan, Jill or Zihark, but she has decent offense and utility in the form of healing. She's not supposed to take hits.

Chapter 3-6

Micaiah is really, really terrible. I seriously do not see what is so great about her. Sure, she cares for the people of Daein. Sure, she wants to save everyone, perhaps even at the cost of her life. And she's loyal to her leaders, even when they're giving horrible and stupid orders? Simply because they're the leaders and she owes them allegiance?

She's read Pelleas' mind. Accordingly, she believes that he will be the one to lead Daein towards a better future, and trusts him. iirc, she doesn't obey him unquestioningly, but she does obey him. It's an interesting example of how Micaiah's visions can sometimes lead her to perform the incorrect action.

Micaiah would hardly be the first FE character to do stuff out of loyalty, either. The series is full of such characters. Camus, one of the most popular FE characters, continues to fight on for Grust, even when all hope seems lost. Selena took orders that she knew she was insane because she was personally loyal to Vigarde. It's just that typically, such characters are antagonists instead of protagonists (but Micaiah plays at being both).

What's worse is that no matter how much she cares for her 'people', apparently Sothe is not a part of that. He's perfectly willing to give up everything for her, and she KNOWS that. Yet she would force him to fight against his past comrades? She 'gave him a way out', but deep inside, she should KNOW that Sothe would never leave her.

Perhaps she does know that Sothe cares for her, and not so much for Daein. And perhaps she doesn't care and wants to fight for Daein anyway.

Somewhere in chapter 3:

Because really, MICAIAH AND PELLEAS. You two are Ab. So. Lute. Ly. FOOLISH. I STILL don't hate you guys, because I can sort of see the very few good points in you. Kindness, for example. Loyalty to your country, for example. But STILL. You guys are FOOLISHLY FOOLISH FOOLS WITH A CAPITAL F.

Daein joining Begnion in the war is just crap. I thought Micaiah was a fool to blindly follow orders from Pelleas back when we had no explanation for Pelleas' command. It's the whole Flynn Scifo thing again, following orders Simply Because They Are From the Higher Ups, without any care as to what is truly right and just. "I trust my king" and all that stuff are CRAP. How can one trust a king who has absolutely no idea how to rule a kingdom? How can one trust a king who was never raised to take responsibility for himself? How can one trust a king who throws everything into the hands of his advisor? More importantly, how can one trust a king who has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the war to reclaim his own country, only a few chapters ago?

Sometimes it seems like Micaiah does all these because she doesn't even have a mind of her own. We never actually heard her views on laguz. All we saw was a bit of stumbling over the words sub-human, switching to laguz pretty quickly... but there was no reaction whatsoever towards Rafiel, Nailah, and all. Even if she was 'keeping an open mind', meeting those two (and Volug) should taught her that the laguz are not what Daein was told to believe. So that should be a pretty big objection against siding with Begnion.

Since Micaiah is a Branded, it would be irrational of her to bear prejudice against laguz.

I don't see what her views on laguz have to do with siding with Begnion. She is ordered to do it, and even though she has moral qualms about fighting with their former enemy, she does it because she has faith that Pelleas is doing the right thing. Clearly, you haven't played through the rest of Part 3, so I won't spoil anything though.

(Finally, it seems wrong to suggest that Micaiah has no mind of her own. She argues with Izuka, multiple times, when she objects to his methods. She goes off to help the prisoners in Shifu Swamp on her own, against the wishes of Tauroneo.)

After that, most of what we see of Micaiah seems to be mainly her transforming into one of those Classic Hero-type personality. Normal, and somewhat boring. "I want to save the people I love". And so on. She still doesn't seem to have much of her *own* personality.

So, Micaiah fans, prove me wrong. Show me that the Dawn Priestess, the leader of the Daein army, the new Queen of Daein, is not a foolish little girl that is just another simple character in a story. Show me her good points, her bad points, her worthiness as an FE character. Argue with my words if you need to, raise points I never noticed but would love to, quote evidence from the game when necessary... just convince me that Micaiah is a worthy protagonist of a Fire Emblem game.

And "She's very pretty" is not a reason, by the way. I already know she's quite pretty. XD

I personally think that Micaiah is actually quite interesting. She's almost a subversion of the typical Fire Emblem hero, especially Ike (the similarities are pointed out in game). An unknown citizen rallies together a liberation army and brings a scion of the royal family to power against the evil occupation? Except that Micaiah actually has to make difficult decisions that cost lives. That kind of negative aspect is never explored in other fire emblems.

Besides, it's not like 'protagonist of a fire emblem game' is some sort of gold standard of deep character development. Most FE main characters have little to no personality (see Marth, Roy, Eliwood, Eirika),

[whase]

-----------------------

Daein joining Begnion in the war is just crap. I thought Micaiah was a fool to blindly follow orders from Pelleas back when we had no explanation for Pelleas' command. It's the whole Flynn Scifo thing again, following orders Simply Because They Are From the Higher Ups, without any care as to what is truly right and just. "I trust my king" and all that stuff are CRAP. How can one trust a king who has absolutely no idea how to rule a kingdom? How can one trust a king who was never raised to take responsibility for himself? How can one trust a king who throws everything into the hands of his advisor? More importantly, how can one trust a king who has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the war to reclaim his own country, only a few chapters ago?

following orders from higher up is just something they did in this kind of times, and don't forget

Micaiah is heron branded, she can feel how someone thinks about a matter. she must've known Pelleas was doing it for the good of Daein.

also, I don't think Izuka would've let Pelleas fight when there are other lives to sacrifice for his cause.

I don't really think FE10 gives any character a lot of story/personality. the FE9 characters we already got to know, so it isn't a disaster for them. but the new characters on the other hand....

as a fighter she is okay to begin with, she just has some late promotions and some tough part 3 chapters that bring her down a bit. though Thani really helps, and so does sacrifice for some free extra xp.

she's a bit of a roy for late promotion, by the time she promotes, everyone is already way better. (Roy being slightly more dramatic *cough*.) by stats she's like lilina, high magic low speed. though BEXP can solve this for Micky, lilina actually needs a speedwing or be overleveled.

btw; high magic gives high healing, maybe that's just what she's ment to do?

[Pitbuller26]

Somewhere in chapter 3:

Because really, MICAIAH AND PELLEAS. You two are Ab. So. Lute. Ly. FOOLISH. I STILL don't hate you guys, because I can sort of see the very few good points in you. Kindness, for example. Loyalty to your country, for example. But STILL. You guys are FOOLISHLY FOOLISH FOOLS WITH A CAPITAL F.

Daein joining Begnion in the war is just crap. I thought Micaiah was a fool to blindly follow orders from Pelleas back when we had no explanation for Pelleas' command. It's the whole Flynn Scifo thing again, following orders Simply Because They Are From the Higher Ups, without any care as to what is truly right and just. "I trust my king" and all that stuff are CRAP. How can one trust a king who has absolutely no idea how to rule a kingdom? How can one trust a king who was never raised to take responsibility for himself? How can one trust a king who throws everything into the hands of his advisor? More importantly, how can one trust a king who has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the war to reclaim his own country, only a few chapters ago?

Sometimes it seems like Micaiah does all these because she doesn't even have a mind of her own. We never actually heard her views on laguz. All we saw was a bit of stumbling over the words sub-human, switching to laguz pretty quickly... but there was no reaction whatsoever towards Rafiel, Nailah, and all. Even if she was 'keeping an open mind', meeting those two (and Volug) should taught her that the laguz are not what Daein was told to believe. So that should be a pretty big objection against siding with Begnion.

Ctrl+F Blood Pact not found. What is a king and commander to do if their citizens' lives are at stake? If they don't fight Daein people will die cumulatively, if they do fight their soldiers' lives will be lost. For the reasoning you provided above, you should hate Naesala too.

About Micaiah's views on Laguz, she views them the same as Beorc. Her being a Daein citizen and always saying Laguz and not sub-human should've been a clear sign of her stance.

[EnzanIjuuin]

Hm, it appears that I quite a few of my words have their meaning misunderstood. But I'm not going to get all defensive. Though I think a defensive reaction (on Micaiah's part) is what I seem to have raised with some of my words, but I meant no malicious intent with those. Anyway!

Some of you have raised some valid points. The situation in which Micaiah had been put in *is* a lot crazier than what most other protagonists were forced into, and no matter how easily the rest of us criticise them for their actions, the difficult part is in actually making a decision in that situation, and going through with it.

I would not say that Micaiah made many *wrong* decisions, because really, what's right to one person may be wrong to another. I disapprove of her actions, mainly because I would have picked a different road, but that's why I'm not Micaiah.

Man, sidetracked.

Mr. Know-it-all-something: Points taken. Though I seem to have misphrased some of my sentences and caused you to react in kind. But never mind. Micaiah's blind faith can be taken as pure loyalty of the highest degree, which is a pretty strong point. Yet that blind faith is what many may call foolishness (as I sort of did). Though one may argue that faith and trust are supposed to be unconditional and impulsive, anyway.

pitbuller: Micaiah was calling them sub-humans. I distinctively remember that. And technically, it's not her fault; like Jill, she was raised to believe that sub-humans are filth. I sort of did mention the blood pact thing, but it's in the journal and not here because that's Pelleas' problem, not Micaiah.

Do take note that I do not hate Pelleas OR Micaiah. I don't actively dislike them, either. I just don't like that as much as I do the other characters, and I'm hoping that someone will be able to change that by giving me different viewpoints.

Thus far, it's working... a little bit.

[whase]

I sort of did mention the blood pact thing, but it's in the journal and not here because that's Pelleas' problem, not Micaiah.

didn't it get to be Micaiah's problem too at the minute he told her?

[EnzanIjuuin]

whase: Yes, but what I meant was that I don't have a bone to pick with Micaiah regarding the blood pact.

Also, those points I scribbled out were just random on-the-spur thoughts. I didn't put down each and every single point of Micaiah's life for someone to give a rebuttal. I hadn't meant for this to be a heated debate to tell me that My-Opinion-of-Micaiah-is-Totally-And-Entirely-Wrong, but it looks like that's what it's slowly resembling. XDDDD

[Anouleth]

Mr. Know-it-all-something: Points taken. Though I seem to have misphrased some of my sentences and caused you to react in kind. But never mind. Micaiah's blind faith can be taken as pure loyalty of the highest degree, which is a pretty strong point. Yet that blind faith is what many may call foolishness (as I sort of did). Though one may argue that faith and trust are supposed to be unconditional and impulsive, anyway.

Her faith is not 'blind'. She doubts and questions her orders, even if she eventually carries them out anyway. Micaiah has a good reason to trust Pelleas.

pitbuller: Micaiah was calling them sub-humans. I distinctively remember that. And technically, it's not her fault; like Jill, she was raised to believe that sub-humans are filth. I sort of did mention the blood pact thing, but it's in the journal and not here because that's Pelleas' problem, not Micaiah.

Micaiah wasn't raised to do anything. She wasn't 'raised' at all, she was an orphan in the slums of Daein that made money off fortune-telling.

That fact remains, that with her ability to see into people and her branded status, she has no reason to have prejudice against laguz. Shihiram specifically raised Jill to be prejudiced against Laguz since both of them are technically foreigners from Begnion and he wanted them to fit in.

[Junkhead]

Just do what you want. Nobody's forcing you to like her.

[Mister Cold]

They should make female lords more interesting next time. Lyn was quite boring IMO. Eirika was the best and my favorite so far but she could have been developed a little bit more ;). idk about that other girl from the second game and idk if Elincia would count as a lord (if she does she's the best <3)

I think the opposite, I prefered Lyn over Eirika. she just looked like a Lyn wanabe >.>, besides the horse on promotion (I have a deep hatred for paladin like chars for some unknown reason, which could be one of the reason why I prefered Lyn)

but I agree on the making female lords more intresting part. hell, make any lord more intresting (Hector was on the right track, so was Micaiah).

I Like Micaiah, I just dislike how they screwed over the mage class (without SS tomes, Micaiah is the fastest Mage class -.-)

[Narga_Rocks]

I hadn't meant for this to be a heated debate to tell me that My-Opinion-of-Micaiah-is-Totally-And-Entirely-Wrong, but it looks like that's what it's slowly resembling. XDDDD

Then try not to say "Convince Me" in your title next time. That might help. Just a thought.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Loki Laufeyson]

However she's such a Mary Sue.

That is actually my biggest beef with Micaiah. Shes a Mary Sue in universe. Everyone says how great she is and everything and no one (except Soren and everyone dismisses this because hes a snarker in the first place) calls her out on her shit. In FE9, Ike gets called out a few times by Nasir and stuff, Hector gets called out by Lyn and quite a few enemies, Innes basically calls Ephraim a dumbass at first, etc. Does Micaiah get this? No. That broke the Willing Suspension of Belief for me for Micaiah. She also doesnt have much character development. Yeah, i liked Yune but that wasnt really Micaiah speaking so yeah. It argued that Ike is a Stu in RD and i can see that point pretty clear but Micaiah takes the taco. I despise her character arc alot because of that.

As a unit, she isnt bad really. Shes pretty useful because she can Thanibomb and her magic growth gets insane. This means that she can really have a lot of range with that physic staff when she can use it. Making her a better healer than Laura. She also has Sacrifice and that can be useful early game. (i dont use it much at all after you get a healer) The only thing i really hate about her as a unit is her shitty speed growth. Yeah it can be fixed by RNG blessings or speedwings but those speedwings can go to other characters (Aran??) So yeah.

As a character, i dont like her one bit. As a unit, shes alright.

[Interceptor]

That is actually my biggest beef with Micaiah. Shes a Mary Sue in universe.

ITT, people who stopped playing the game after 1-Endgame? Had a surrogate play the non-GM Part 3 chapters? Skipped all dialog? Made up their own definition for "Mary Sue"? Inquiring minds aren't really all that interested.

[Narga_Rocks]

ITT, people who stopped playing the game after 1-Endgame? Had a surrogate play the non-GM Part 3 chapters? Skipped all dialog? Made up their own definition for "Mary Sue"? Inquiring minds aren't really all that interested.

Bored minds, on the other hand, very much are.

Though at the moment even I'm not that bored. There are so many different definitions going around for Mary Sue now that people slap that label on pretty much anyone they don't like if that character appears even slightly favoured by the writers. And the character doesn't even need to be favoured in any way. Just needs to have a few moments that some people can choose to interpret as being favoured.

[Loki Laufeyson]

ITT, people who stopped playing the game after 1-Endgame? Had a surrogate play the non-GM Part 3 chapters? Skipped all dialog? Made up their own definition for "Mary Sue"? Inquiring minds aren't really all that interested.

Sorry but...what?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Florina

[Interceptor]

Sorry but...what?

Do you need a translation in another language? A map? I was wondering aloud about potential reasons why people think that Micaiah is a Mary Sue.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Im not gonna get into a "whats a Mary Sue" debate but the signs are there. Character with an odd color (in universe) of hair, has special powers no one else really has, everyone loves her, etc and so forth. The way she found out she was related to the Apostle really bothered me and reeked of Mary Sue. Same with the Galdr of Release thing. It just "comes" to her, no explanation, nothing. Thats lame. Sure people could say thats the fault of the writers but so is writing a Mary Sue. If you dont think she is, thats fine, but no need to be overly snarky about it. Your post seemed pretty incoherent to me, sorry.

[Narga_Rocks]

Im not gonna get into a "whats a Mary Sue" debate but the signs are there. Character with an odd color (in universe) of hair, has special powers no one else really has, everyone loves her, etc and so forth. The way she found out she was related to the Apostle really bothered me and reeked of Mary Sue. Same with the Galdr of Release thing. It just "comes" to her, no explanation, nothing. Thats lame. Sure people could say thats the fault of the writers but so is writing a Mary Sue. If you dont think she is, thats fine, but no need to be overly snarky about it. Your post seemed pretty incoherent to me, sorry.

Interceptor's nickname is snark.

Anyway, how would you have handled the relationship reveal? Also, didn't she hear Mist attempting the song and then copied her? That's hardly "it just comes to her". Now, the sacrifice power is kinda odd, I'll admit. Did they ever say that her grandmother had her power? Since if she did, that's simply being the daughter. Would you say everyone that is the heir to something special is a Mary Sue? If so, then apparently it's bad to have any stories that are like that. RD is far from the only story to have that happen. You must find a lot of Mary Sue's out there. I pity you. It means you must find it a lot harder to enjoy many stories.

[Anouleth]

Im not gonna get into a "whats a Mary Sue" debate but the signs are there. Character with an odd color (in universe) of hair, has special powers no one else really has, everyone loves her, etc and so forth. The way she found out she was related to the Apostle really bothered me and reeked of Mary Sue. Same with the Galdr of Release thing. It just "comes" to her, no explanation, nothing. Thats lame. Sure people could say thats the fault of the writers but so is writing a Mary Sue. If you dont think she is, thats fine, but no need to be overly snarky about it. Your post seemed pretty incoherent to me, sorry.

Having an odd hair colour and having special powers and being well-respected does not make you a Mary Sue. Rather, they are symptoms of an inexperienced writer that wants to make a OMG SUPER COOL original character and piles a ton of mismatched powers and abilities into one big mess. I don't get that impression from Micaiah, although obviously it's subjective.

(Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a powerful main character. Many good fantasy books and games have characters with extraordinary powers. It would be boring to follow a talentless nobody around, after all. The problem occurs when the main character feels out of place, or when the way other characters treats them breaks willing suspension of disbelief.)

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well the song, she could hear of course. But the lyrics? They just "came" to her! I could even accept that Yune whispered the lyrics to her in some way but no, thats not how it happens. Its like "Oh its in the blood." uhh weak excuse. If Lehran told her she was related to the Apostles, i could accept that too, but alas!

r. Would you say everyone that is the heir to something special is a Mary Sue? If so, then apparently it's bad to have any stories that are like that. RD is far from the only story to have that happen. You must find a lot of Mary Sue's out there. I pity you. It means you must find it a lot harder to enjoy many stories.

Not really. One can be a Canon Sue and still be likable, enjoyable, and fun to read about. I just didnt get that with Micaiah.

[Junkhead]

Micaiah is Branded. That explains most of her powers and physical appearance.

[RNG Princess]

I think the opposite, I prefered Lyn over Eirika. she just looked like a Lyn wanabe >.>, besides the horse on promotion (I have a deep hatred for paladin like chars for some unknown reason, which could be one of the reason why I prefered Lyn)

but I agree on the making female lords more intresting part. hell, make any lord more intresting (Hector was on the right track, so was Micaiah).

I Like Micaiah, I just dislike how they screwed over the mage class (without SS tomes, Micaiah is the fastest Mage class -.-)

Maybe I like Eirika more because I feel sorry for her she's just so ditzy and stupid. Lyn was too boring like they tried to hard to make her cool. I still like Lyn don't get me wrong Out of the lords the most interesting ones are Ike and Sigurd imo although I don't really like Ike in RD he's just as dull as another.

BTW just to clear it up I didn't mean to say Micaiah was a Mary Sue, I only think she has many traits on her similar to a Mary Sue.

On the other hand Ike is probably the Sue/Stue lord.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a powerful main character. Many good fantasy books and games have characters with extraordinary powers. It would be boring to follow a talentless nobody around, after all.

Rand al'Thor. (Wheel of Time) Only the most powerful channeler in the history of that world (well, hero of time constantly reincarnating type of deal, so I suppose he's in a tie with himself for that title).

Richard Rahl. (Fork Sword of Truth) (I quit around book 4 or 5 and then skimmed the last book at a bookstore just to see how it ends. He still hates his main characters and makes them go through crap before having a happy ending. Sigh. But good ol' Richard is the most powerful wizard in centuries or something like that, at least when he gets the hang of it.)

Jaenelle (Black Jewels Trilogy, and various sequels/sidestories) (has the power to annihilate every living thing in two worlds if she felt like it, and instead uses it to remove the "taint" of particularly bad members of The Blood. 30% of The Blood all die in a day. None of the good ones die from that).

R'shiel Tenragan. (Demon Child Trilogy) (I love this trilogy, but for those that complain about superpowered mains with unique abilities, how about child of the king of a race that seemingly disappeared over a hundred years ago (and happens to be able to call random gods and chat with them, among other things like channeling their power). This race doesn't really do the violence thing only they are powerful (and the royal line is insanely powerful). Only guess what? R'shiel is half-human and so she's actually willing to use that power. Micaiah doesn't really hold a candle to her. Even when Yune wakes up in her, R'shiel could still beat her down in power.)