Dragonite and Tyranitar

[General Herpus Derpus]

Are they overkill,because they do have epic moves and stats?

Discuss.

[Cryptic]

Have they become Uber tier yet?

[Zanarkin]

why would they? they aren't that strong.

[Chocolate Kitty]

Yeah, and they have killer weaknesses.

Dragonite(Drg/Fly) vs ice = quick kill

Tyranitar(Rck/Drk) vs fighting = quick kill

[shroudening]

Salamence became uber, not too long ago. He must have some advantage over Tyranitar and Dragonite to move up in tier.

[AstraLunaSol]

IIRC one of the main factors was because Latias moved to Uber, making it too strong for OU.

At least that was when I checked on Pokemon battling 2 months ago.

[Magna]

Salamence over-centralized the OU tier. Every team revolved around it, being it by using it or for countering it. Latias was a good check and moving it to Ubers was probably the final push necessary for Salamence to be banned to Ubers.

Now it's Scizor who dominates OU until the 5th fifth gen is implemented...

[Zanarkin]

Stealth Rock over-centralizes every tier. Every team revolves around it, being it by using it or for countering it.

I'm still amazed how it hasn't been baned >_>

[Magna]

That's why it hasn't been banned, it's even in every tier while Mence isn't. I would blame more the mechanic behind SR of applying weakness and resistance rendering some pokes completely overwhelmed but, then again, Spikes would have to be reformuled too.

[Zanarkin]

I hate it too. I don't think it's overpowered though, but it plays too much of a role in deciding how useful a Pokemon is. e.g. Every single Fire type from OU got pushed down except a few that are ALL neutral to Stealth Rock (Infernape and Heatran). The only reason Charizard is NeverUsed is because of that stupid rock. It's just totally unfair to ignore all of the merits of a Pokemon and put them in a huge disadvantage solely because they're weak to Rock.

That move should be banned imo.

this was from proto.

my thoughts exactly and my response to that post....

Edited September 26, 2010 by SlayerX

[Magna]

I agree with both of you wholeheartidly. However, the way I see things is that SR came in response to Spikes. See it as a complement, while spikes don't affect Flyers and Levitators, GameFreaks probably thought of SR for a way to balance things. The problem is that SR, contrary to Spikes, kept its Rock typing in full effect, while Spikes, doesn't apply 4x weaknesses iirc. IMO, this is a contradiction and SR should have worked in a similar fashion to Spikes, by layers, the more rocks there are floating, the harder is to avoid being crushed by them.

This is what I really blame, not the move per se. I also think Smogon and other competitive battlers should have made more efforts in really seeing if SR should really have been banned or not. I can't remember when and how they responded to everyone who criticized the move.

[Zanarkin]

I agree with both of you wholeheartidly. However, the way I see things is that SR came in response to Spikes. See it as a complement, while spikes don't affect Flyers and Levitators, GameFreaks probably thought of SR for a way to balance things. The problem is that SR, contrary to Spikes, kept its Rock typing in full effect, while Spikes, doesn't apply 4x weaknesses iirc. IMO, this is a contradiction and SR should have worked in a similar fashion to Spikes, by layers, the more rocks there are floating, the harder is to avoid being crushed by them.

This is what I really blame, not the move per se. I also think Smogon and other competitive battlers should have made more efforts in really seeing if SR should really have been banned or not. I can't remember when and how they responded to everyone who criticized the move.

I agree, its not the move itself, its the mechanics of the move. I mean seriouls 50% against a 4x weak pokemon just for coming in... thats just not right. I think it shouldn't have a place in gen 4 competitive battling. Don't know about 5th.