grandjackal Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) 1. Let's not cry over a spilt H. 2. Maybe if you had killed Blados in 2 turns, it wouldn't have ever been an issue. 3. Nope, found the one in the house in Belinsk. Now let's move on, shall we? So, I decided to look over Eoleo's stats, and I was amazed by how awful he looked outside of his monsterous HP. Then I checked his equipment and noticed he had the worst equipment I could have possibly imagined. I'll check him out again when I find him equipment that isn't god awful. For now though? Raiding time of Harun! I find an Herb, a Hard Nut, a Mercury djinn Spring (of which I give to Karis), some Crystal Powder, a Nut, 432 coins (they just leave that kind of cash lying around!?), and an Elixer. So I go to the shop and see what I can and can't equip him with. Greatswords and axes he can't equip? That's bizarre. Some pirate you are, fella. Well I bought him the armor I could, and while not the best he already has 3rd highest defense, nearly tied with Sveta, stomping them HP wise as he has without a doubt the best HP. However, 2 things worry me. 1. His weapon choices are subpar. Rapiers and MAces? Really. He's got worse attack than everyone I am maining right now. Another issue is that he's just not that fast. His speed is decent, but that's about it. Looking at his psynergies though, he's got great stuff. Fume, also having a fire version of Plume Edge and hte like, the Beam moves, and Guard/Protect. Maybe I'll slip him onto my team if I find better equipment, but as it stands now? Not happening. So I leave town to the west exit, and I see two places, those being Warrior's Hill and the Harun Channel. I take to the channel first. Harun Channel As I enter, I notice the dark mist of the eclipse. I make note that I might be close to beasts of darkness and move forward, seeing someone passed out a floor below me, and a ladder that cannot be climbed as it stops well before reaching a floor, needing a pillar to complete it. I see a seesaw, and a moveable box that will lead me to a chest, using Crush to catapult me off the Seesaw to get a Lucky Cap. Giving it to Karis because no one else wants it. I catapult myself off the other end of the seesaw to move forward. I notice another point to catapult myself, and since hte way forward is blocked, I take it. I am on the other side of the channel, moving along will I find that pillar for the ladder earlier, and reaching the unconcious man and whoever it is that's helping him. Apparently it's the son and grandson of Ikan, the storyteller of Harun. The father had apparently broken his leg, so Reif heals him. They are amazed by the miracle performed, since it seems that psynergy is something these people lack in Harun. I remember seeing a treasure chest, but I have to pass through the fog. You can end up encountering dark beasts you met in Belinsk while you walk around in it. The chest contains the Muramasa...Which is Cursed. It's not even that good, it's barely any better than the Sylph Rapier. Might be nice for Tyrell, but please. I'm not cursing him for a minor attack boost and having to relearn a whole new weapon. Well whatever, I go back to town and talk to Ikan, who requests he sees the power that healed his son by having me move something. I move a box, and he is amazed that people like us are here. Seeing as both the kid and Ikan saw it, they should be at least capable of psynergy. Or rather, it seems they can see, but are not capable. Which as Kraden points out is weird. Ikan mentions that we must be the ones who will go to the Watchtower at Warrior's Hill, using the weapons that are not weapons, or such was prophesized at least. "When hte light of Luna reaches the sunken tower, all falls into darkness. What began in beauty ends in terror. Shun shadow, walk in light, to escape the Eclipse's blight.". Kraden states that prophecies deal with the future, and this describes the present. Whatever they hoped to accomplish with the Eclipse Tower seemed to have worked too well, something beyond the capabilities of psynergy's elements of Fire/Water/Wind/Earth. Seemingly, they might have been trying to manipulate the properties of Light and Dark. We ask more about the Watchtower, and he describes (after a bit of joking) that they have no clue how it got there. The goal for them was to use akey, of which he hands to us (Watchtower Key). There would be a treasure to be found there, and when found it would guide us along. I head to the inn and rest before heading off to Warrior's Hill. Warrior's Hill I enter the tower, seeing that it takes me downward. I go downward still, as I have nowhere else to go, as to find great machinations similar to the ones found in Eclipse Tower. I go down further, getting a Cookie on my way down, and eventually being forced off to a ground floor. I have no clue where I'm going or what I'm supposed to do, so I just head left until I come out to Harun Channel, knowing that I'm going to break a rock I found earlier. I look abotu the passages I could not explore before, noticing a summon tablet as I look about. I cold snap two puddles and crush the rock, blocking the damming to activate more gears in the Watchtower. I return, just seeing what was to the far right out of morbid curiosity. Just turns out to be a rided back up if I ever wanted to leave, so I did the right thing. I enter a small doorway near the newly activated machinations to find another ride up. I ride it up all the way to the other side to get some Dragon Mail, of which I give to Tyrell, giving the hand-me-down Planet Armor to Eoleo. I ride back up to find a way forward that is blocked by broken ladders, going to the other side of hte room to find stairs going up to a room filled with Zol. I notice stairs going down nearby so I go there to find a missing gear link at the top of the broken latter. I push it down, then I head back down tp get it back in it's rightful place, Activating a giant fan to lift the Zol, and lifting another tower out of the ground. I head up the new stairs and head outside of the new tower, of which the path out is blocked by rocks. I climb a tree and head south to find a Venus djinn. Through violence I convince Chain to join me. I give it to Tyrell, since due to Eoleo joining I suddenly had to be demoted just to fit djinn onto him, so Tyrell's a ninja again. Well, can't do anything else out here, so I head back in, not realizing that lifting the Zol opened another path to me. One last fan to activate from the looks of it. I move a gear thingy down into a hole of which I can catapult onto, finding another belt to ride to the other side, but I miss it just barely, riding it down to find an Aegis Shield. I give it to Matthew, giving hte Aura Gloves to Tyrell, then giving the War Gloves to Eoleo. I ride back up, catapult to the other side of hte room, climb up a ladder to move a new gear in place, activating a third fan and tower. I head up the new stairs, finding a Zol dome with a locked door. I use the watchtower key to remove the Zol door, watching the door float up (that was kinda cool actually), and I head in. Inside, I find...a pebble. With a strange mark on it. The pebble is called The Third Eye. Unusual name. So I leave, and I make sure to nab that summon tablet I saw earlier of which contains Coatlicue. I head back to town and talk to Ikan, hoping he'll have a hint about the Third Eye. He does not. Uhh...I guess I leave? As I sail about, I notice a cave island surrounded by rocks, so I can't reach it at the moment. I realize the Y button is a way to get the world map out, wanting to do so. I see a nearby mass of land near the easter edge of the world, so I figure to head there. Well I would, but as I typed, a freaking whirlwind picked me up and tossed me into the caved island. Uhh...right. Otka Island I have an odd feeling about this place... Uhh...I can't do anything here, so I leave. I'll be sure to come back here though, as Insight had led me to see that some ability is needed, and it looked as though the symbol it showed me was on The Third Eye. Saw a Jupiter Djinn there, so I know I'll be going back. I head once more for that island I mentioned earlier. Yamata City I just realized the island looks like Japan. Then I'm stricken by familiarity by this place. Is this the place where Earth Rock used to be? Oh well, raiding time! I find an Herb, hte new shop has a new awesome weapon for Sveta and a new Spirit Armlet for a mage character, a Jupiter dhinn called Kite that I'm letting Matthew hold onto for the moment being, a Weasal's Claw, some Power Bread, a Sacred Feather, and some Bramble Seeds. I enter the palace, they not seeming to mind as I find another 60 coins, and that's it. My raid ends when I find someone named Susa...That sounds vaguely familiar...Susa's hte guy who originally tried to kill the Earth Serpent, right? Yup, that's him. He and Kraden catch up on old time, Kraden trolls Tyrell a bit to my humor, and raising up the point about the darkness spreading. He will aid how he can, though he can't help much. He says that Kushinada and Himi can, but Himi's in sort of a crisis at the moment. Kushinada prays for her daughter Himi...And the curse spreads to her. Well, ok so it seems we're all gonna be having a crisis pretty soon with this curse. I Insight, seein that I can Spirit Sense some, the queen noting that if Himi's heart had gone. I decide to investigate when suddenly the Third Eye comes out of my pocket and becomes a mark on Himi's forehead. The king gets pissed at me for good reason, because I have no idea what the hell just happaned. Himi awakens though, which I am thoroughly relieved since it seemed the king was about to have me executed. It seems she was chosen by hte watchtower's treasure, so she is quite important by the looks of it. Susa demands an explanation, but then Himi does some weird...posessed stuff, seeming to be looking through her new third eye. She seems to say she needs our help, as the eclipse cannot go unchecked. The Grave Eclipse could chase away all things holy, my encyclopedia saying that the Eclipse Tower doesn't just block light, it absorbs it. That's not a comforting bit of info. She cannot explain how she came to know of such things, but that's how it is. Belinsk, Ayuthay, Champa...When the tower absobs enough light, it will release it all. She says we must amplify the light going in to stop it, perhaps an overload or some sort. But, how do we amplify light? We need the Apollo Lens, of which we seem to have already supplied it with the power it needs. Seems those other alchemy machines were key in that. We must remove some sort of lock, or the machine will not operate. Big problem though, the lock is in the central continent, and we can't exactly just mosey on back to it. We need the Umbra Gear scattered about the darkness, equipment hte Je-Nei used to harness the darkness. We are to guide her, using hte power of her Search Psynergy to aid in finding hte gear. One of Morgal's oldest records include an Umbra Map with the locations. Still not comforting, because Morgal's screwed by being dead center of this problem. Himi joins my team. I rearrange a bit of her djinns, and I find an interesting one with Curse Master. Statistically speaking, she is very fast in her own right, though the look of everything else she is vastly subpar. But no matter what djinn I put on her, she has a lot of psynergy to chose from. I'm not quite sure what to make of her, but I do know her current equipment is sub-par so that could make or break a few things. My team is now complete, and Susa tells me to visit Uzume's grave before I leave. I buy her a Blessed Robe and the Angelic Ankh. She's the most durable mage (unless you count Amiti), and the hardest physical attacker (again, unless you count Amiti). I suppose she could be good, but...I have Amiti. If Amiti weren't on my team I'd gladly use her, but I have Amiti. However, I'm still on hte fense because her psynergies right now are seeeeemingly more powerful than Amiti's, so despite the fact he's a triple classer (has Wish, decent physical prowess thanks to starting with higher weapon mastery for the weapons he has to get his unleashes quicker for some reason AND has at leas decent psynergies), I might just replace him for a dedicated power mage, which it seems I can get out of Himi. I decide to break here. Admiral, if you got anything to tell me that I should know about Eoleo let me know if I'm missing on something. Eoleo looks underwhelming to me, and I'm iffy about putting in a power mage to replace someone with Wish Well and High Impact. Edited December 10, 2010 by Amaterasu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) However, 2 things worry me. 1. His weapon choices are subpar. Rapiers and MAces? Really. He's got worse attack than everyone I am maining right now. Another issue is that he's just not that fast. His speed is decent, but that's about it. Looking at his psynergies though, he's got great stuff. Fume, also having a fire version of Plume Edge and hte like, the Beam moves, and Guard/Protect. Maybe I'll slip him onto my team if I find better equipment, but as it stands now? Not happening. I rearrange a bit of her djinns, and I find an interesting one with Curse Master. Statistically speaking, she is very fast in her own right, though the look of everything else she is vastly subpar. But no matter what djinn I put on her, she has a lot of psynergy to chose from. I'm not quite sure what to make of her, but I do know her current equipment is sub-par so that could make or break a few things. My team is now complete, and Susa tells me to visit Uzume's grave before I leave. I buy her a Blessed Robe and the Angelic Ankh. She's the most durable mage (unless you count Amiti), and the hardest physical attacker (again, unless you count Amiti). I suppose she could be good, but...I have Amiti. If Amiti weren't on my team I'd gladly use her, but I have Amiti. So, she can go leave. Umm, Eoleo can equip Axes. *opens up game* Yep. So I don't know what game you're playing. It doesn't really matter since he can get his mitts on the Phaeton's Blade, the second best sword in the game (Sol Blade is better but that's Matthew only). And it's a light blade. Also, Tyrell has even shittier stats. Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guard 110% 80% 100% 110% 70% 100% Nothing (Tyrell's Base) Soldier 130% 90% 110% 120% 80% 100% 2 Mars Warrior 150% 100% 120% 130% 90% 100% 4 Mars Champion 170% 110% 130% 140% 100% 100% 6 Mars Hero 190% 120% 140% 150% 110% 100% 8 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pirate 110% 90% 100% 100% 90% 120% Nothing (Eoleo's Base) Cannoneer 130% 100% 110% 110% 100% 120% 2 Mars Corsair 150% 110% 120% 120% 110% 120% 4 Mars Pirate King 170% 120% 130% 130% 120% 120% 6 Mars Hull Reaver 190% 130% 140% 140% 130% 120% 8 Mars Yeah... Also, Himi is broken in the Curse Mage class. Speed is meh (Soul Siphon is only 150% and that's 6 Mars and 1 Venus) so give her the Zol Ring to make sure that she acts first. Then use Fear Puppet. Please try this. Results are guaranteed. Oh and Harmony's not supposed to be a mage. Neither is Stella. Harmony is literally Piers all over again and Piers was physical based. Edited December 10, 2010 by Life Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) Double post to keep this organized. Eoleo is one of your top physical tanks. Him, Matthew, Stella and Tyrell all belong in this catagory with Eoleo standing out thanks to his base HP and Def (Stella needs Beastform to keep up and she only has 9 turns max with it on). In a class that uses EPAs, Eoleo will probably be doing more damage than Tyrell at the same level. And there's a way to test. Buy the same weapon for both Eoleo and Tyrell. Equip it on both of them and turn them both into Ninjas (3 Wind, 3 Earth). To get the Djinni to cancel each other out, equip Eoleo with Flower, Bark, Brick, Jolt, Ether and Breath. Tyrell should have Doldrum, Wisp, Fleet, Vine, Garland and Pewter. This gives neither of them a boost in attack. Now go out into the wild and fight whatever you want. Use Death Leap from both of them on the same enemy and record the damage. Rinse and repeat. If Eoleo does more, he's your Fire Adept to keep. To utilize him properly, put him in any of the three advanced classes. Dragoon (3 Earth, 3 Water) gives good attacking psynergy at this stage, Cutting Edge and Wish. Ninja (3 Earth, 3 Wind) helps out Eoleo's speed problems with a 170% boost and gives sick EPAs (Shuriken and Death Leap) along with monster attack (Master gives out 170% which is tied with Chaos Lord for best in the game... except that Chaos Lord is mediocre everywhere else). Samurai (4 Earth, 3 Wind) capitalizes more on Eoleo's tanking abilities with a 190% boost to HP and 140% boost to Def. Attack is still high and you can play around with stuff like Dragon Cloud, Demon Night and Helm Splitter. Demon Spear and Angel Spear (Impact and High Impact) don't hurt his case too. With Fire Adepts, you have to know how to abuse what they're good at. Earth and Wind Adepts can be in any class and they perform well. Not so much with Fire and Water. Edited December 10, 2010 by Life Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 Please try this. Results are guaranteed. Oh and Harmony's not supposed to be a mage. Neither is Stella. Harmony is literally Piers all over again and Piers was physical based. Well, really Piers was a character clearly intended to be physical but much better utilized as a mage (low-powered heal-bot, technically) or "that character that unleashes/sets the same djinn over and over again in tough fights", be it Flash or Lull. Or as a bench warmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) Well, really Piers was a character clearly intended to be physical but much better utilized as a mage (low-powered heal-bot, technically) or "that character that unleashes/sets the same djinn over and over again in tough fights", be it Flash or Lull. Or as a bench warmer. Piers warmed my bench while Isaac fucked everything up in his path. Yet more proof that Harmony is Piers' son. Harmony's boosts for Aqua Squire and all subsequent classes are identical to Piers' boosts for Mariner. Also, to GJ. There's a reason why I picked Ninja. Ninja has a 150% bonus to attack to amplify the difference but it also has a 170% boost to Agl to ensure that you go first and aren't hit with something stupid like Dull. You might find this useful: Fire Adept Classes: Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guard 110% 80% 100% 110% 70% 100% Nothing (Tyrell's Base) Soldier 130% 90% 110% 120% 80% 100% 2 Mars Warrior 150% 100% 120% 130% 90% 100% 4 Mars Champion 170% 110% 130% 140% 100% 100% 6 Mars Hero 190% 120% 140% 150% 110% 100% 8 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pirate 110% 90% 100% 100% 90% 120% Nothing (Eoleo's Base) Cannoneer 130% 100% 110% 110% 100% 120% 2 Mars Corsair 150% 110% 120% 120% 110% 120% 4 Mars Pirate King 170% 120% 130% 130% 120% 120% 6 Mars Hull Reaver 190% 130% 140% 140% 130% 120% 8 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 100% 120% 110% 100% 120% 90% 1 Jupiter Illusionist 120% 130% 120% 110% 130% 90% 2 Jupiter Enchanter 140% 140% 130% 120% 140% 90% 4 Jupiter Conjurer 170% 160% 140% 130% 160% 90% 6 Jupiter, 1 Mars War Adept 190% 170% 150% 140% 170% 90% 7 Jupiter, 2 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Swordsman 100% 90% 110% 110% 90% 120% 1 Mercury Defender 120% 100% 120% 120% 100% 120% 2 Mercury Cavalier 140% 110% 130% 130% 110% 120% 4 Mercury Luminier 170% 130% 140% 140% 130% 120% 6 Mercury, 1 Mars Radiant 190% 140% 150% 150% 140% 120% 7 Mercury, 2 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brute 100% 70% 120% 90% 110% 70% 1 Venus Ruffian 120% 80% 130% 100% 120% 70% 2 Venus Savage 140% 90% 140% 110% 130% 70% 4 Venus Barbarian 160% 100% 150% 120% 140% 70% 5 Venus Berserker 180% 110% 160% 130% 150% 70% 6 Venus, 1 Mars Chaos Lord 200% 120% 170% 140% 160% 70% 7 Venus, 2 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ascetic (W) 120% 140% 110% 120% 140% 120% 6 Mercury Water Monk 150% 160% 130% 140% 160% 120% 7 Mercury, 1 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ascetic (A) 120% 140% 110% 120% 140% 120% 6 Jupiter Fire Monk 150% 160% 130% 140% 160% 120% 7 Jupiter, 1 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dragoon 160% 130% 140% 140% 110% 130% 3 Mercury, 3 Venus Templar 180% 140% 150% 150% 120% 130% 4 Mercury, 4 Venus Paladin 200% 150% 160% 160% 130% 130% 5 Mercury, 4 Venus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ninja 160% 140% 150% 120% 170% 80% 3 Jupiter, 3 Venus Disciple 180% 150% 160% 130% 180% 80% 4 Jupiter, 4 Venus Master 200% 160% 170% 140% 190% 80% 5 Jupiter, 4 Venus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Samurai 190% 130% 150% 140% 140% 90% 4 Venus, 3 Jupiter Ronin 210% 140% 160% 150% 150% 90% 5 Venus, 4 Jupiter I'm currently writing a FAQ for GameFAQs on Battle Mechanics (already submitted Version 0.1) so hopefully I get most of this thing done in a month. Problem is, I need help on hacking DS games... Edited December 10, 2010 by Life Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) Umm, Eoleo can equip Axes. *opens up game* Yep. So I don't know what game you're playing. It doesn't really matter since he can get his mitts on the Phaeton's Blade, the second best sword in the game (Sol Blade is better but that's Matthew only). And it's a light blade. Err...Oh right. *headslaps* He comes equipped with one. I'm a dolt. I just looked around at the equipment I could BUY him at the moment, and the only "good" ones were rapiers and maces. Also, Tyrell has even shittier stats. Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guard 110% 80% 100% 110% 70% 100% Nothing (Tyrell's Base) Soldier 130% 90% 110% 120% 80% 100% 2 Mars Warrior 150% 100% 120% 130% 90% 100% 4 Mars Champion 170% 110% 130% 140% 100% 100% 6 Mars Hero 190% 120% 140% 150% 110% 100% 8 Mars ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pirate 110% 90% 100% 100% 90% 120% Nothing (Eoleo's Base) Cannoneer 130% 100% 110% 110% 100% 120% 2 Mars Corsair 150% 110% 120% 120% 110% 120% 4 Mars Pirate King 170% 120% 130% 130% 120% 120% 6 Mars Hull Reaver 190% 130% 140% 140% 130% 120% 8 Mars Yeah... Ok great, he's better at hogging Mars djinn. Tyrell has Ninja class, so this comparison is way way off. Even if I do give him tyrell's current axe to find him stronger, I still find that Ninja is better than anything Eoleo can do due to Death Plunge. I know he's got Cutting Chop, but I find that Death Plunge's Wind element is a better element to attack with. In fact, I find fire in general to be underwhelming. Most things throughout my adventure have had a tendency to resist it, while nearly everything is weak to wind in some form. Also, Himi is broken in the Curse Mage class. Speed is meh (Soul Siphon is only 150% and that's 6 Mars and 1 Venus) so give her the Zol Ring to make sure that she acts first. Then use Fear Puppet. Suppose I'll do so then. Please try this. Results are guaranteed. Oh and Harmony's not supposed to be a mage. Neither is Stella. Harmony is literally Piers all over again and Piers was physical based. I ought to demote you to Life Corperal. As a Sage, he's fantastic. Well rounded stats, well rounded psynergy pool, and a well rounded equipment options he's proven himself to e a triple classer. Be it using Wish, having the Impact spells, decent offensive psynergies for the net damage (since for the most part I don't need to have everyone on my team casting psynergies since my team is actually great with their physical prowess), or fire off a decent attack along with the fact he seems to be ahead of everyone when it comes to getting unleashes out (for some reason, he starts with some weapon mastery even if it's a brand new equip, it's stange). He can adjust to the situation quite well. He's just good enough at everything to not slow me down an inch, making him quite versatile. I'd definitely keep him in over Reif (More psynergy dependent even though he has plenty of it, simply noticeably weaker all around since his psynergies are barely any better (the Cold Snap series has run it's course as well)), or Karis (who's basically a weaker Amiti without Wish). Only lately have I called it to question, because Himi noticeably stands out due to having seemingly more vastly powerful psynergy than most of my team. She's faster than him, but he's already unquestionably attacking first, so her extra Agi is pointless. Furthermore, Piers didn't have Bows, of which seem to be Wind elemental, and as pointed aobve there is a lot in this game that is weak to wind. Team that up with his tendency to get unleashes quicker...I simply cannot agree with you that he is Piers 2.0. Maybe I'll see what happens when I give Eoleo Tyrell's axe and see if he's in fact stronger, and I might replace Amiti with Himi, but just note this. Up to this point, these two have been great, and I most likely will not replace Tyrell due to Ninja. Only reason I'm even considering replacing Amiti is because Sveta's got Boon, and I'm not finding myself in deep need of Wishers since I technically have two right now. EDIT: Errr hello, seems lke a debate happened while I was typing up this single post. You guys are quick. Also, thanks for that chart. I suppose since it's this late into the game, I won't exactly be needing to hide myself from the class data now that I have all the freedom in the world to flip stuff around. EDIT2: Err...I was unaware that Eoleo and Tyrell basically had all the same stuff aside from 2 things (Different base classes and the fact Tyrell can equip Greatswords). Edited December 10, 2010 by Amaterasu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I ought to demote you to Life Corperal. As a Sage, he's fantastic. Well rounded stats, well rounded psynergy pool, and a well rounded equipment options he's proven himself to e a triple classer. Be it using Wish, having the Impact spells, decent offensive psynergies for the net damage (since for the most part I don't need to have everyone on my team casting psynergies since my team is actually great with their physical prowess), or fire off a decent attack along with the fact he seems to be ahead of everyone when it comes to getting unleashes out (for some reason, he starts with some weapon mastery even if it's a brand new equip, it's stange). He can adjust to the situation quite well. He's just good enough at everything to not slow me down an inch, making him quite versatile. I'd definitely keep him in over Reif (More psynergy dependent even though he has plenty of it, simply noticeably weaker all around since his psynergies are barely any better (the Cold Snap series has run it's course as well)), or Karis (who's basically a weaker Amiti without Wish). Only lately have I called it to question, because Himi noticeably stands out due to having seemingly more vastly powerful psynergy than most of my team. She's faster than him, but he's already unquestionably attacking first, so her extra Agi is pointless. Furthermore, Piers didn't have Bows, of which seem to be Wind elemental, and as pointed aobve there is a lot in this game that is weak to wind. Team that up with his tendency to get unleashes quicker...I simply cannot agree with you that he is Piers 2.0. You misread my point. I said he was like Piers, I didn't say he was Piers V2.0. What you're saying about Hermit isn't Harmony being good, it's Hermit being that damn good. If I were to make Harmony, Stella, Crown and Karis all Sages, Harmony would emerge as the weakest. Look at the class itself for proof. Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hermit 80% 140% 80% 90% 130% 120% 1 Jupiter Elder 90% 150% 90% 100% 140% 120% 2 Jupiter Scholar 110% 160% 100% 110% 150% 120% 4 Jupiter Savant 130% 170% 110% 120% 160% 120% 5 Jupiter Sage 150% 180% 120% 130% 170% 120% 6 Jupiter, 1 Mercury Wizard 170% 190% 130% 140% 180% 120% 7 Jupiter, 2 Mercury 130% Att and 140% Def. Perfect for someone who actually WANTS boosts in those areas. 190% PP is nothing to sneeze at but Harmony doesn't have major problems with PP unless in Aqua Squire. Harmony's far from bad in this game. The problem is that he is meant to be more of a physical fighter and being a Water Adept doesn't let him do that. Cold Snap can be installed on Crown for the same results too, by the way. Exact same, mind you (Psynergy works entirely on Elemental Levels). In short, judge Harmony for Harmony, not Harmony for how good he is as a Hermit with Cold Snap. Since I can bring up a rebuttal using Crown and explaining why Crown is a better choice for Hermit and Cold Snap. It all starts from base PP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 You misread my point. I said he was like Piers, I didn't say he was Piers V2.0. What you're saying about Hermit isn't Harmony being good, it's Hermit being that damn good. If I were to make Harmony, Stella, Crown and Karis all Sages, Harmony would emerge as the weakest. Look at the class itself for proof. Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hermit 80% 140% 80% 90% 130% 120% 1 Jupiter Elder 90% 150% 90% 100% 140% 120% 2 Jupiter Scholar 110% 160% 100% 110% 150% 120% 4 Jupiter Savant 130% 170% 110% 120% 160% 120% 5 Jupiter Sage 150% 180% 120% 130% 170% 120% 6 Jupiter, 1 Mercury Wizard 170% 190% 130% 140% 180% 120% 7 Jupiter, 2 Mercury 130% Att and 140% Def. Perfect for someone who actually WANTS boosts in those areas. 190% PP is nothing to sneeze at but Harmony doesn't have major problems with PP unless in Aqua Squire. Neither do Karis and Reif, your point? Ignoring the fact that Sveta has better things to do, there is very few things seperating them. Cold Snap's the same thing either way, and Amiti has a better equipment selection on top of it. Therefore, he's better than Reif. Karis and Amiti have the same weapon selection, difference being that Amiti can have Cold Snap. Therefore, he is better than Karis. If we take to it that Sage is the best class at their disposal, then logic concludes that Amiti is actually the best of them on the basis he can do what both of them can do at the same time. If we're also concluding that those growths are good for someone who is apparently more physically based, then why is it we're highlighting two chararacters that are either much weaker in those areas on their own with a worse equipment selection, or a character who is the same thing but has less (as in, no Cold Snap access)? Harmony's far from bad in this game. The problem is that he is meant to be more of a physical fighter and being a Water Adept doesn't let him do that. Cold Snap can be installed on Crown for the same results too, by the way. Exact same, mind you (Psynergy works entirely on Elemental Levels). I'm not saying I think you're saying he's bad, I'm just saying I think he's better than you give him credit for. You say we get the same results by equipping Cold Snap to Rief, so tell me: Why are we bothering with Reif when Amiti's got a vastly better equipment selection? All that does is make Amiti sound like a better Reif. Which he is. In short, judge Harmony for Harmony, not Harmony for how good he is as a Hermit with Cold Snap. Since I can bring up a rebuttal using Crown and explaining why Crown is a better choice for Hermit and Cold Snap. It all starts from base PP. And since you say Amiti doesn't really have problems with PP, your point is moot. Why do I care that Reif has more of something I'm never going to run out of in the first place? This is to show the distinction that I AM judging Amiti for who he is. He's a guy who can do Reif and Karis's job at the same time with no real penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 11, 2010 Author Share Posted December 11, 2010 So, I did some rearranging of team and djinn. I saw Matthew as a Berserker and my jaw dropped. Admiral, you are failing to troll me. Mediocre everywhere else? Because to me, he seems amazing everywhere. Great psynergy pool, great durability, great offense, decent speed (Do I still have the Safety Boots on? I need to find new boots), his only problem is he doesn't have the PP to manage. If the growths suck, maybe it's because I spent a lot of time as a Guardian. Planet Driver is Fire, which kinda puts me off, but it seems stronger to make up for it. Revive? Definitely loving it. As for Samurai Tyrell, I am unfamiliar with all the strange sounding abilities, but I welcome elemental variety of which it has, along with the support of Angel Spear. Only thing putting me off a bit is the somewhat weaker attack. I am keeping Himi as Curse Master for now, if only because all I need is a powerful way to nuke something to hell and back, and she fits the bill. I replace Amiti with her, as Amiti I feel has served his purpose. Sveta is staying exactly the same. I give the Zol Ring over to Himi, because I want my nukes hitting first. So I pay my respects to that...God...Damned...DOLL!! *snarls at it and leaves after moving the rock and using Search to find a passage elsewhere* I find two chests, one with a Water of Life, and the MASAMUNE! Damn this thing is powerful! I give it to Matthew, who has a fear-inducing 528 attack with it. I try to go deeper, but it says I need two gems. One path I can't reach, the other says I need a red gem...*keeps the blue gem I already have in mind*. Now I leave proper. I decide to explore the rest of the island, noticing an inactive volcano. Tyrell learns Helm Splitter at lvl 33. Since I figured a strange landmark like this was kinda weird, I decided to do a bit of hoping to find a djinn here, and lucky me I find a Mars djinn! I take it out in one turn because Masamune is straight up retarded in a Berserker's hands. Having done a bit of testing of Curse Master, I can say I am thoroughly unimpressed. It's spells don't do as much damage as I thought they would considering how ludicrously expensive some are, and has no way to make up for it. It's just a waste of PP. I decide to switch about a bit more, and I notice she has access to Templar class. That not only blows my mind, but it's awesome. I switch her to that. I decide to pick up that Jupiter djinn I found while I was checking out Otka Island. While I'm there, I also get another bloc of Quality Zol. Lull is quite a bit hardier than other djinn fights, but he should go down with ease regardless. I give it to Sveta and toss over a Mercury djinn I had sitting on her to one of the others. I canot get into Otka Island proper, so I return to wandering towards this island to the right that's been making me curious. Himi learns Nettle at level 36. Wow, is she seriously lvl 36? Most of my team's only level 33. I must be making good time. Gaia Falls Waterfalls...Why did it have to be waterfalls? I go down the path it forces me essentially. I fid a chest containing an Umbra Cloak-WHAT!? I found one already? That was kinda easy. Seems like armor, and only Sveta can wear it (ok, there is no doubt in my mind I shouldbe using her. I in turn give the Storm Gear to Himi, and the Blessed Robe to no one in particular. I notice a sneaky path that leads up the falls using grip to find a chest and a passageway behind hte falls. I open the chest and DAMMIT it's a mimic. A pretty damn tough one too, lived through a whole turn of maximum unleashes. Gave an Apple and enough experience to level up everybody. Behind hte falls is a Mercury djinn named Shell. I let Karis keep it. After that short little excursion I leave. So, after that I head for my next curiosity, that big patch of wtf near the last village I was at. It involves me going through darkness...Am I brave enough? I make an attempt. Err...turns out it was just a big weird cloud. Not only that, but the enemies here are giving me boatloads of exp. I probably should not actually be here right now. Matthew learns Inferno at lvl 36. Sveta learns Psynergy Surge at lvl 35. Well...Screw it, I'm already this deep into it and most likely gonna be overleveled when I get out. Might as well go all the way and explore the cold north. I go through a water maze to find an Iceburg Outpost. Iceburg Outpost I jump around a bit, finding my way into a cabin. The treasure chest seems a bit out of the question out of the moment so I push the drawer out of the way of a doorway, finding a dark room. Some people are in here, someone lighting a gandle. Oh man, Ryu, Zan and Hou! The storm threw you guys out here? Zan does not look in hte best of shape, but he fought off hordes of monsters to protect this place. One got wounded and he mistook it for dead, and...now that we're here, he feels it's time to go. Man, no one should die all the way out here like this...He tells me to take care of them, and passes away. Well...Since we're with these guys, wonder if they have the Morgal Map. Turns out it's one of Ryu's last keepsakes of his father's, and wishes he didn't have to part with it...But he knows if we need it, it would be better to help us than to be selfish. I feel Ryu's grown up a bit since we first met. I notice apath to the side involving trees and a growth vine. I am led to a chunk of Mythril and I accidentally slide down the roof for the Rime djinn, and climbing a tree leads me to a box with some Lucky Pepper. I decide to go back on the roof and attempt hte chimney, of which I fall down. Luckily, my neck broke my fall. Anyways, I nab the last chest of which contains Minerva's Helm, which is a fantastic boost of +13 Def that I give to Tyrell (isn't Minervian stuff usually reserved for females? You now, cause Goddess of the Hunt and all...). The boat that was sparking my interest must have been theirs. Eh...All too unfortunate. I'm told we should go to Tonfon. Where the fuck is Tonfon? Eh, whatever I notice one piece of hte Umbra Gear is on a certain icy path I remember, somewhere deep in hte mainland, and on an island with a spiral on it. Either way, I wanna get the hell out of here real fast. Wait, did I just pass the Mercury Lighthouse?... Anyways, I return, and I find Tonfon. Tonfon Time to raid! I find a Khiren Water, an Herb (Every town...), some Mint, I buy some new weapons for my backup team (even I am paranoid, besides I got more money than god at this point), and some new greaves for Matthew (My speed! It's magically returned to me!), and...Know what? I'm only gonna say the important stuff, because each raid now just gives me shit that just clogs my inventory and does nothing useful. I climb around, and run along the rooftops, because I see a sleeping man I want to slap. He moves his ferry. His removing nets me the Tinder djinn. Amiti's stuck with it. Anyways, I just bolt right to the castle now, not caring to raid anymore. Well ok, the kitchen has a Hard Nut and there's a plant you can Growth to reach a treasure chest a bit later. Meeting with the emperor, seems Lady Hinechou has lost something. Lord Unan recognizes Kraden (though I do not remember Unan at all), and welcomes back Ryu and Hou. Hinechou is pleased to see her children back. Ryu thanks you for seeing them back safely, as does Emperor Unan. I go to leave, but then Unan calls me back. He has things he wishes to discuss, and when I get back from meeting with Hinechou to come back to speak with him. She gives me a gift that has been an heirloom of hers for generations, the Lady Moon's Ring. A +11 Def accessory that also boosts all resists. That is an awesome ring. So, I return to meet with the emperor. He asks if we were looking for hte Apollo Lens. We were, but how the fuck does he know that? Oh, he was informed by Not Alex. Great, so Alex knows exactly what we're doing. He asked the emperor to give us a Red Gem...Weird. I will be needing three treasures, and I already have 2 of them now. I must put the two gems in a statue to reveal the third treasure. Himi goes enlightened and tells us to return to Nihan to visit Uzume's again. Even Kraden's stumped by Alex's motives. The emperor reveals a secret passage, offering us Emperor Ko's Great Hidden Road in order to aid us. The spoils of his predecessor's constant warfare is now at our disposal. I smile big. I receive the Lord Sun's Ring, a Psy Crystal, and UMBRA GAUNTLETS! I equip the Gauntlets to Sveta, and give the Sun Ring to Matthew (Spike Armor+Warrior Helm+Sun Ring=PROFIT!!). I forgot about the chest in hte back with the vine, so I go back to the lady's tower to go pick it up, getting a Dragon's Bow for my troubles. I hand it to Amiti, handing down hte Yew Bow to Karis. I leave town. I go a bit south trying to avoid the darkness, but see that I inevitably have to. I go into it, finding the immediate way blocked by cliffs and mountains, and as I pass through a forest I run into the Mercury djinn Foam. What the fuck man, now I'm just running into them at random. Oh well, can't complain. I give it to Himi, fully promoting her to Paladin. Hmm...I think I'll take a bit of a break here before venturing into the darkness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 11, 2010 Author Share Posted December 11, 2010 Alright, time to enter the darkness. One thing I'm noticing is a trend among dark enemies is that they refuse to die quickly. I was right in thinking nuking would help. I seem to only have one way to go... The Endless Wall This game's soundtrack is awesome. A dungeon like Endless Wall sounds intimidating. I can only hope it lives up to it. I go to the left to find a way in using Growth, and I enter the wall proper. Inside is a lone fireplace, and the lightning flashes darkness. This place is so atmospheric I love it to death already. I go to the other side and jump out the window for a chest containing Lucky Pepper. I get back in and go to the fire, seeing I can jump to it. I do, and Eoleo says he can take care of it. With it, he uses the fire with his Thermal Psynergy to create a solid updraft of warm air, allowing it to lift us. Funkadelic magic pirate. Weeeeee!! I am risen up to great heights, only to see my way is blocked by a door. I need 3 treasures...Oops. Seems I can't do anything here yet. Guess I should go back to my ship. So uhh...I leave after embaressing myself, and Reif finally asks why his sister's not with Kraden. Seems Nowell has fallen in love with someone-CAPTAIN PIERS!? Seems Nowell loves her some pretty boys. Well, after that bit of mystery clearing (even I forgot about Nowell, though I guess that's because she didn't leave much of an impression), I sail off for the red circle in the south. Most annoying island to circle around ever. Tyrell learns Quick Strike at level 40. Volcano Island The pat is very straightforward. I find a Jester's Armlet for Himi, and the Umbra Knuckles for Sveta (second strongest hitter on my team now. Count it), along with the Mars djinn Flare. I give it to Eoleo so I can scam Matthew a Venus djinn, netting me Chaos Lord. This is madness. He just wrecks stuff now. Ever since I got him hte Tri-crit stuff, I have yet to see him not unleash every attack. I don't care if he has less defense from Spike Set getting a bit outdated in defense, this is wrecking faces. So I leave the island, and see a set of 5 islands to the west that spark my curiosity. I set off for them and see they're nothing but beach. I think this can't possibly just be here for the hell of it, it seems so random. On my hunch, I set about on the bigger island, and surely enough I find a Jupiter djinn Simoom. Weird name, but damn I'm getting good at finding these wild djinn. OH SHIT, RAPTOR KNUCKLES! They gave Sveta the Hokuto no Ken! So, I head back to Yamata as instructed, I remember to go and show the Red Gem, lowering hte sand level. I notice I have a circuit to complete, getting to the upper level to show the Red Gem once more to lower the sand a second time. It reveals something I need true sight for, doing so to make another pad. I rearrange the circuit to reach a chest containing a Thunder Crown. It's cursed, so I bleh at it. It's not even that great a helm. Tyrell's helmet is actually better. Cursed stuff should be unquestionably the best if you have to deal with curse, thems the rules guys! Heading back, I now use the open teleporter to warp me forward. I find another tablet, but I can't seem to do anything about it at the moment, so I move forward. I complete another circuit and lower the sane a third time, using the Blue Gem this time. I use true sight to reveal 2 more teleporters, rearranging the circuit to get to a Venus djinn Hemlock, the bastard haunting Tyrell before I can get my hands on him. I give it to Sveta, who is now a Gladiator and knows Revive. She's not Matthew, but is certainly beating out her other pals. I go back a room and make a quick jump to a Cookie before remembering there was another room further back. The sand...isn't lowered, so I go continue forward once more. I use the blue gem once more to lower the sane one final time, fully revealing the chamber that had been buried. I climb down, going down the newly unburied room (though still seeing a bit more sand could be lowered), and teleport to the top of a giant...Doll. I put the gems in it's eyes, and it's thirdd eye opens to reveal...a Yellow Gem? I guess having Red/Blue/White Gems were taken by some other RPG of some sorts, I forget which. Another teleporter opened, but I remember that bit of sand and the yellow tablet. I go use the Yellow ORb to lower the sand a final time. I navigate to the top of the room at the bottom to find a true sight area, of which I reveal a chest, of which contains the Gaia Blade. I give it to Matthew, even though it would make him weaker since he's the only one who can equip it (it'll get stronger as I master it I'm sure). I give the Masamune to Himi (SHE CAN EQUIP THIS!?), passing the Sylph Rapier to Tyrell. I'm surprised that she even has this thing somewhat mastered. I leave this dump with my treasures in hand, planning to return to the Endless Wall. Endless Wall, Fo' Real This Time So I go back to the door and open it with the gems I should have had a moment ago. I now am on the world map, it having changed (due to now me being in the center of the dark storm), as I traverse the wall. Matthew learns Stone Spire at level 42. I traverse till I see a great whirlwind spinning about a mountain. I find the Apollo Ascent...But I don't think I'm quite prepared for that. I feel some things in hte south I haven't thoroughly explored yet, so I go south to find Ayuthay. I remember I got stuff to forge, and wonder if they ever got that stuff figured out, so I head to Passaj. I find that the master craftsman got killed. I'm angry beyond belief to hear that. I decide to go to the forge instead, hoping maybe forgers are in there. I find old man and what's his face in there, thinking back as to why they (Kaocho) attacked, possibly wanting hte Alchemy Forge. Not much time to worry about that though, as this hell is upon the people of Passaj now that it's engulfed in darkness. Good thing we got the forge running, who knows what would have happened without the walls up. I decide to poke about town a bit to learn more about the situation. Well, the walls did help protect these people, but some still managed to die. Many mourn, others filled with despair. Looking bleak up here on the mountain. I find an old rag oddly enough. I can't think of a possible use for this. However, talking to some random citizen (mourning the death of her love), I am prompted to give her an item. Well...Only thing I got really. She says it looks familiar, Sveta reading her mind to help her remember. She runs off, and I suppose she went to where the rag once was. Apparently the way he got killed when the walls were up was he was saving someone's life (the boyfriend who had died). I talk to the rescued man, and he offers his help to hammer at stuff...Weird. Only thing I can think of is to have him hammer at some Zol before the elevator shaft...??? A Venus dinn? Icy to be specific. Ok, how the fuck? Only reason I even came down here was morbid curiosity. How the fuck would any other person find this thing? This has to be the most out of the way djinn ever. I give it to Eoleo, making him a Paladin. I leave, feeling kind a sour about that. Well fuck, that was stupid. While I'm down here, might as well check out if there's any more junk down here. There isn't, so I head back along hte coast and-wtf? I missed a town. Cahmpa Camp? I guess Champa got wrecked. Eoleo: Home...Sweet Home? Everyone's shocked to see him, because last time they heard about him was he being executed via being boiled like a lobster. People bring up Briggs...Yeah, touchy subject. So I go to see the weapon shop, shocked to see a Mars djinn there. Insight says to slap it, and I do. I lol as I knock it silly into the sand. I wrap around to go get it, nabbing Fugue. I give it to Amiti, because I don't care about my other party at this point, and the djinn are a mess over there anyways. They say Obapa is back in the actual Champa. *Sigh* guess I'mma go get her. Luckily it's nearby... ...and on fire, apparently. Champa's bigger than I remember it. I do a bit of searching down by the docks to find a neat little passage. The door is locked however, so I go back to my search for Obapa. I enter the fortress, searching about I find some Water of Life in a pot. This place is a wreck, it's burning from the inside out, the dead are down to the bones and scattered about. I even decide to read the spirits of a few dead. One of them committed suicide. This is a sort of dark I was not expecting from Golden Sun. I eventually find the key, so I head back down to unlock the door. I stop by the graveyard, cause now I'm just morbidly curious. It seems a huge wave crashed at first, having killed some. One dead spirit seems weird, confused about the darkness, only visiting hte material world for some sunshine. One of the spirits curious on how to haunt someone, cause it sounds sweet. One is pissed that even in death he can't get a song out of their head. I stop reading hte dead, going to unlock the door. Inside I find 6 coins, 8 coins, and 88 coins, along with a pushable torch with a Thermal fire on it. So, I use Thermal to see what the real deal with this place is. I find one lone chest carrying GOLD BULLION! Actually no, it's ORICHALCON so it's just as awesome. I return to where I was, meeting with Obaba...To think she outlived her grandson. Eoleo and she have a reunion, recognizing Kraden. He relays to her that Briggs had died. She shows frustration to the situation, and causes her to view her own mortality, knowing she can't possibly have much longer herself. She offers to forge me stuff (YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHH!!). I give her the Orichalcon to work on. I get the Hercu-*cough*EXCALIBUR*cough*. Gave her my Quality Zol and got a Zol Tia-*cough*ZOLRINGAND2ZOLGREAVES*cough*. So yeah...After that, I take a bit of a break. *Goes to strangle someone* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Neither do Karis and Reif, your point? Ignoring the fact that Sveta has better things to do, there is very few things seperating them. Cold Snap's the same thing either way, and Amiti has a better equipment selection on top of it. Therefore, he's better than Reif. Karis and Amiti have the same weapon selection, difference being that Amiti can have Cold Snap. Therefore, he is better than Karis. If we take to it that Sage is the best class at their disposal, then logic concludes that Amiti is actually the best of them on the basis he can do what both of them can do at the same time. If we're also concluding that those growths are good for someone who is apparently more physically based, then why is it we're highlighting two chararacters that are either much weaker in those areas on their own with a worse equipment selection, or a character who is the same thing but has less (as in, no Cold Snap access)? Ok. Let's get something straight here. Weapons have nothing to do with Psynergy damage. Nada. Zip. Zero. Look at the formula for proof. Relative Power: Relative Power = (User's Power - Target's Resist). If (Relative Power < -200), Relative Power = -200. If (Relative Power > 200), Relative Power = 200. Basic Psynergy Attacks: Psynergy has own Base Damage Damage = [Psynergy Base Damage * (1 + Relative Power / 200)] Curative Psynergy: Psynergy has own Base Healing Healing = [Psynergy Base Healing * Caster's Power / 100] Area Reduction: Basic Area Psynergy is reduced by the ratio: 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20%, 10%. Do you see anywhere where Attack is referred to in the above formula? No. Therefore, Harmony = Crown when both are Hermits. He is not better and not worse. He is perfectly equal. Second point. Because of the above point (psynergy and summons having no reliance on Attack), Harmony cannot use his higher (and still mediocre) Attack unless he does one of three things. 1. Attack (Weapon Unleashes are unreliable, even with multiple in this game, not to mention that Harmony has no access to a class that boosts his attack more than 140%), 2. EPA (Cavalier and Aqua Squire are the only classes that Harmony has EPAs and both are a downgrade) and 3. Djinn Unleashes (Kills Harmony's stats and a single downgrade in class gives Crown a major advantage). Therefore, unless you switch Harmony's class, you have no business crediting him for being "stronger" since Crown does the EXACT same amount of damage. Last point. Karis vs. Harmony. I had a better version of this argument posted but I'll just quickly summarize it. Harmony wins thanks to Frostbite (only if he has the Ice Queen) which probably has 150 Dam. This happens until Karis hits level 44 (very possible level in this game) and gains Tempest in a much better Wind Seer class (the fact that she's fighting for Jupiter Djinni is another story) than past games (basically because she has a diluted version of Wish). So what have we learned here? Harmony = Crown unless you're using Crown to do physical things, to which I'll say "you're doing it wrong". It's like using Lucius to juggernaut through an army. And with regards to Karis vs. Harmony, Harmony gets the win if you favour him but once we get to the real strong Psynergy, Tempest and Spark Plasma blow him out of the water. I'm not saying I think you're saying he's bad, I'm just saying I think he's better than you give him credit for. You say we get the same results by equipping Cold Snap to Rief, so tell me: Why are we bothering with Reif when Amiti's got a vastly better equipment selection? All that does is make Amiti sound like a better Reif. Which he is. The reason why we bother with Crown is that if Crown is good, Harmony isn't obsolete. If we have Hermit!Crown with the Ice Queen, we can make Harmony into a Cavalier (E) to gain Wish, Revive, Cutting Edge (note that CE is the key) and Briar for mob control. Harmony's decent attack and strong bows can be used to power Cutting Edge. But we can't say the same about Crown if we reverse the scenarios because Crown has the worst Att in the game. A really good Crown and good Harmony are much better for the team than a really good Harmony and a shit Crown. Unless you have the perfect idea to remedy Crown. And since you say Amiti doesn't really have problems with PP, your point is moot. Why do I care that Reif has more of something I'm never going to run out of in the first place? This is to show the distinction that I AM judging Amiti for who he is. He's a guy who can do Reif and Karis's job at the same time with no real penalties. Fuck man, a 190% PP bonus turns even fucking Tyrell into a PP god. 190% PP is overkill and not needed for either Crown or Harmony. In fact, if Harmony has a 150% bonus in PP, he'll never have PP problems. That's why I said that Harmony never has PP problems. My whole point here is that you're denying Crown everything that you're giving Harmony and then claiming that Harmony is better. With regards to Psynergy, they are perfectly even and as for Attack, Harmony has to be in a class that actually lets him use it properly before you can claim that Harmony is a stronger mage than Crown. So, I did some rearranging of team and djinn. I saw Matthew as a Berserker and my jaw dropped. Admiral, you are failing to troll me. Mediocre everywhere else? Because to me, he seems amazing everywhere. Great psynergy pool, great durability, great offense, decent speed (Do I still have the Safety Boots on? I need to find new boots), his only problem is he doesn't have the PP to manage. If the growths suck, maybe it's because I spent a lot of time as a Guardian. Planet Driver is Fire, which kinda puts me off, but it seems stronger to make up for it. Revive? Definitely loving it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brute 100% 70% 120% 90% 110% 70% 1 Mars (Matthew only) Ruffian 120% 80% 130% 100% 120% 70% 2 Mars Savage 140% 90% 140% 110% 130% 70% 4 Mars Barbarian 160% 100% 150% 120% 140% 70% 5 Mars Berserker 180% 110% 160% 130% 150% 70% 6 Mars, 1 Venus Chaos Lord 200% 120% 170% 140% 160% 70% 7 Mars, 2 Venus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Samurai 190% 130% 150% 140% 140% 90% 4 Mars, 3 Jupiter Ronin 210% 140% 160% 150% 150% 90% 5 Mars, 4 Jupiter Speaks for itself. Edited December 11, 2010 by Life Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Wow, Life Admiral. What happened to your post? That's all GJ's stuff and nothing from you. Also, GJ, assuming there are similar +power items as in TLA, wouldn't some of the wind or water adepts have access to +mercury power items and some not? That would make those that can into better healers (wishers, anyway) than those that can't. Unless that type of stuff doesn't exist in Dark Dawn, in which case it doesn't matter since they'd all have the same power healing. Edited December 11, 2010 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Wow, Life Admiral. What happened to your post? That's all GJ's stuff and nothing from you. My post died, Narga_Rocks. That's a subtle hint not to call me Life Admiral and just Life like always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) My post died, Narga_Rocks. That's a subtle hint not to call me Life Admiral and just Life like always. It's actually a good thing you added that second sentence. I don't mind being called either "Narga" or "Narga_Rocks" so it wouldn't even register as anything odd. In fact, it didn't until I read that second sentence. I actually had to look back at the first sentence after reading the second to even properly notice. Yeah, I know, I'm oblivious sometimes. Subtlety is frequently lost on me. Okay, Life it is. Oh, and I wish I had a DS so I could play this (I don't want to emulate new games). In GS and GS:TLA, wrecking everything (but bosses) with djinn unleashes is generally a superior strategy. Get your agi up and you go first in round 1 anyway, and the enemies shouldn't even make it to round 2. When there are enough enemies they can make it to round 2, but usually even after the unleashes in round 1 a couple of your characters (possibly all of them) will still be faster than the enemy anyway. Now, sure, you have to reset your djinn after each battle, but at least you don't have to care about running out of TP ever. Since the Golden Sun games (unlike most FFs) don't tend to have a cheap way to recover your TP just before a boss, I find that nice. This isn't FFV where you can Syldra everything to death in a dungeon and then Tent/Cottage your way to full MP just in time for the boss. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brute 100% 70% 120% 90% 110% 70% 1 Mars (Matthew only) Ruffian 120% 80% 130% 100% 120% 70% 2 Mars Savage 140% 90% 140% 110% 130% 70% 4 Mars Barbarian 160% 100% 150% 120% 140% 70% 5 Mars Berserker 180% 110% 160% 130% 150% 70% 6 Mars, 1 Venus Chaos Lord 200% 120% 170% 140% 160% 70% 7 Mars, 2 Venus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Samurai 190% 130% 150% 140% 140% 90% 4 Mars, 3 Jupiter Ronin 210% 140% 160% 150% 150% 90% 5 Mars, 4 Jupiter Speaks for itself. Yeah. Chaos Lord is faster and stronger so I like it more. Sure, less luck (I do hate certain status effects, I'll admit) and def and hp and pp, but that attack and speed is what I like to see. Edited December 11, 2010 by Narga_Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 11, 2010 Author Share Posted December 11, 2010 Ok. Let's get something straight here. Weapons have nothing to do with Psynergy damage. Nada. Zip. Zero. Look at the formula for proof. Do you see anywhere where Attack is referred to in the above formula? No. Therefore, Harmony = Crown when both are Hermits. He is not better and not worse. He is perfectly equal. Yes, they are the same psynergy-wise, I am aware of that. I'm just saying that as the class, they are identical aside from their own base stats. So, if Amiti has better bases, he simply wins because Reif's lead is in a stat that no one ever has problems with (PP), and Amiti has a better weapon selection on top of all of that, then Rief can go piss off. I'm not saying physical prowess had anything to do with psynergy, but it does have to deal with what one character has over another. So, again, by virtue of weapon selection, Reif is just Amiti with worse weapons. Second point. Because of the above point (psynergy and summons having no reliance on Attack), Harmony cannot use his higher (and still mediocre) Attack unless he does one of three things. 1. Attack (Weapon Unleashes are unreliable, even with multiple in this game, not to mention that Harmony has no access to a class that boosts his attack more than 140%), 2. EPA (Cavalier and Aqua Squire are the only classes that Harmony has EPAs and both are a downgrade) and 3. Djinn Unleashes (Kills Harmony's stats and a single downgrade in class gives Crown a major advantage). Therefore, unless you switch Harmony's class, you have no business crediting him for being "stronger" since Crown does the EXACT same amount of damage. Decent is not Mediocre, because bows for the most part hit Wind, which as I mentioned before is a very common weakness in this game. It picks up the slack you are imagining is there. Reif's attacking qualifies as mediocre. Besides, if we're tossing out the physical aspect and just saying they're the same, then where is your argument that Reif is somehow better?He can't be better if he is the same while ignoring an aspect that puts Amiti ahead in the argument. Last point. Karis vs. Harmony. I had a better version of this argument posted but I'll just quickly summarize it. Harmony wins thanks to Frostbite (only if he has the Ice Queen) which probably has 150 Dam. This happens until Karis hits level 44 (very possible level in this game) and gains Tempest in a much better Wind Seer class (the fact that she's fighting for Jupiter Djinni is another story) than past games (basically because she has a diluted version of Wish). I am pretty sure I am nearing the end of this game, and I am just hitting 40. If I hit 44, it will be when I'm knocking on the final boss's front door. I am not impressed. This is also implying that I am keeping Amiti on my team the whole game, of which I am not. Himi is clearly superior as she has access to better classes (like Paladin) and seemingly more weapon selection. So yeah, Karis might beat Amiti out at very high levels very very late into the game, but I am not using Amiti the entire game. Amiti's served his purpose well, but then I find people who are actually immediately better in Himi. So what have we learned here? Harmony = Crown unless you're using Crown to do physical things, to which I'll say "you're doing it wrong". It's like using Lucius to juggernaut through an army. And with regards to Karis vs. Harmony, Harmony gets the win if you favour him but once we get to the real strong Psynergy, Tempest and Spark Plasma blow him out of the water. Which by then I'll have no use for any of these people, just opting for Himi as her spell selection is no laughing matter, and has even better equipment to use. Besides, why not factor attack into it? It's not like we'll all die if we don't spam psynergies all the time, and it has yet to slow me down until I start venturing into the dark, where swarms of enemies actually exist. The reason why we bother with Crown is that if Crown is good, Harmony isn't obsolete. If we have Hermit!Crown with the Ice Queen, we can make Harmony into a Cavalier (E) to gain Wish, Revive, Cutting Edge (note that CE is the key) and Briar for mob control. Harmony's decent attack and strong bows can be used to power Cutting Edge. But we can't say the same about Crown if we reverse the scenarios because Crown has the worst Att in the game. When did Cavalier end up in this argument? Why the hell are we arguing Amiti an Reif with the mindset they're going to be on hte same team? Why are we acting like they can just get away with any class they want? Relating to my first question: Really, I don't think arguing that Amiti has access to better classes is helping your argument for trying to help Reif. Second question: I suppose you are arguing in this mindset because if we compared people as to who deserves a slow on the main team and only 1 slot, the only reason he doesn't automatically lose that argument is because he has Frostbite over Karis. But then Svetka shows up, of which I replace Reif with her and toss Frostbite over to Amiti because any hint that Reif is still good for the team has vanished with her arrival. Why? Cause for a good portion of time between Amiti and Svetka, enemies are weak enough that spamming PP is not justifiable. Essentially, spamming PP is just wasting PP at that point of the game. But Reif with Frostbite is better than Karis at that job. But then I get Svetka, and things change. No way in hell I'm letting both Reif AND Amiti stay in over her, so I dump Reif and make Amiti into the guy who can bust out a nuke when necessary, but again it's not crucial that I nuke at this point. This is why I've been bringing up Amiti having a better attack: Using a nuke for a good portion of the game is unnecessary force, so he having hte better attac actually matters. Third question: Because voids help Reif's situation. This is the reason I've been bringing up Sage constantly. The way the rest of my team will want their djinn set up might not allow the freedom for Hermit or Cavalier. Under best circumstances, whoever's got the last slot is going to have to be a Sage, of which is a perfectly good class. Since the two trying to get the slot are going to be the same class, and Amiti's just the same with a better attack... This also turns back to eat your own argument. If we are buying the idea that the two can just get whatever class they want, I would vouch for hte one with better classes. I would not consider Cavalier vs Hermit in Reif's favor until later on, and he is easily replaceable with Himi in that aspect. A really good Crown and good Harmony are much better for the team than a really good Harmony and a shit Crown. Unless you have the perfect idea to remedy Crown. I do, it's called getting Reif off my team when Svetka shows up and giving Frostbite to Amiti right after. Fuck man, a 190% PP bonus turns even fucking Tyrell into a PP god. 190% PP is overkill and not needed for either Crown or Harmony. In fact, if Harmony has a 150% bonus in PP, he'll never have PP problems. That's why I said that Harmony never has PP problems. No one has PP problems, so wherever you were going with this is irrelevant. My whole point here is that you're denying Crown everything that you're giving Harmony and then claiming that Harmony is better. With regards to Psynergy, they are perfectly even and as for Attack, Harmony has to be in a class that actually lets him use it properly before you can claim that Harmony is a stronger mage than Crown. There is a reason 'm comparing the two as the same class, and that's because the rest of my party's not just gonna let me get away with whatever I want with those two. Even if I did, why would I ever pick Hermit Reif over Cavalier Amiti? Both have Wish, both have access to Frostbite, and now you're arguing Amiti in a class that puts his phsyical stats to better use. Maybe if Frostbite didn't exist, Reif would have a point with being able to say his better movepool at that point in time would actually means something, because with Frostbite all he has to his advantage is more PP. Amiti's advantages are everywhere else. Maybe if Reif had a class that actually boosted the power of psynergies I would not be arguing, but there is no such class so.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brute 100% 70% 120% 90% 110% 70% 1 Mars (Matthew only) Ruffian 120% 80% 130% 100% 120% 70% 2 Mars Savage 140% 90% 140% 110% 130% 70% 4 Mars Barbarian 160% 100% 150% 120% 140% 70% 5 Mars Berserker 180% 110% 160% 130% 150% 70% 6 Mars, 1 Venus Chaos Lord 200% 120% 170% 140% 160% 70% 7 Mars, 2 Venus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Samurai 190% 130% 150% 140% 140% 90% 4 Mars, 3 Jupiter Ronin 210% 140% 160% 150% 150% 90% 5 Mars, 4 Jupiter Speaks for itself. Where did the better movepool and better bases go? Also, from the looks of this, the only wins here are 20% more HP (lulz), 20% more PP (Super lulz), and 20% more Luck (hardyhar). Chaos Lord seems to win 20% more Strength and 20% more speed. On top of having a better movepool, why would I ever take Ronin over Chaos Lord? As a note, I know that there could be better growths and stuff for all the classes below Berserker there. But, the magic of this game is that I don't have to stick with the entire class set to eventually get into Chaos Lord. I just switch djinn around and presto! I have a Chaos Lord who's benefited from better growths for all this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narga_Rocks Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 two things: All Mercury Adepts should be able to grab 6+ Venus or Mars djinn and go Cavalier as long as they have more Venus (or Mars) than 5+ however many Mercury they have. This was true for both Piers and Mia, so it should be true for both of these guys. I don't get why you are frequently having the issue that two adepts of the same type don't have the same class list (except rare exceptions like base class for some (Jenna/Garet and Piers/Mia) and maybe something else in this game for all I know). I think you had that issue before with one of the other characters. (I'll grant that the guy with better weapons and natural atk would obviously make a better Cavalier due to Cutting Edge relying on attack, but I'm just saying they can both be the same class) Where are you getting 20% more hp and 20% more atk/spd? 210 is 10 better than 200 (that was hp) and 170 is 10 better than 160 (that was atk) and 160 is 10 better than 150 (that was spd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 12, 2010 Author Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Continuing on. So, it dawns on me that I completely forget about the spot marked in the upper left corner of the map for the Umbra Gear, so I sail up there to get it. I'm surprised I actually come out the other end of hte darkness to find light once more. I suppose now I head for that structure I thought was Mercury Lighthouse. Well first I make my way around a mountain range to find a cave I need true sight for. Snowdrift Shrine I head to the right for a cave, fighting a Grizzly and getting a rare lucky drop in the form of Chronos Mail that I give to Tyrell. I find a chest finding a rather predictable Mimic, getting a Hard Nut, then I leave to go back outside. I climb up to find a Mercury djinn, and I slide down to go after it. Geyser get! I rearrange some dinn so that Amiti can now become a Wizard. I do a bit more sliding to find a Mist Potion, some Crystal Powder, and the Phaeton Blade. I give the blade to Eoleo because Titan Blade and Excalibur are miles ahead. I then slide down the middle, use True Sight to reveal a teleporter, and inside the chamber I find the Umbra Goggles. I leave the place. I also discover that my way to the Mercury Lighthouse is blocked, so I suppose I must now continue to the Endless Wall. I rest up at Chinatown and head for the endless wall. But first I go to the pond that is in the middle of the red circle, using true sight to reveal a bridge, knowing the final piece is there. Lonely Island Ruins The adept must control emotion to maintain discipline and focus. Immediately I find 2 chests, one containing money that is now useless to me, and the other containing Ashura's Armor of which Chronos Mail and Dragon Armor outclass, and since it's not awesome like Spiked Set, it's pretty much junk. Another chest contains a Vial. The path's pretty easy. Then I see three tablets. Douse the fire of my rage. Blow away the mists of my longing. Dry the tears of my sadness. Clearly the guy carving these tablets was a bit emo at the time. I slap the statue, and it's eyes glow red, setting fire to torches. I take the hint and douse the fires. I slap the nose again, it's eyes glow blue. It begins to cry and fill a pool. I go over and scorch the bowl of water to drain it, going back to the statue to slap it again. It turns one last time to have dark clouds form above it. I cold snap a puddle, move a pillar and use Whirlwind to dispel it. It lowers, revealing the path to a treasure containing the Umbra Cowl. I give it to Sveta, handing the Jeweled Crown to Himi. I'm now decked out, let's do this. I traverse the Endless Wall, and finally I reach... The Apollo Ascent I climb up the waterfall to find a rock to smash, smashing it to find...A familiar statue. I know I've seen this somewhere before. It extends it's hand out, and I climb over to the other side of the waterfall, continuing forward. I find a rock to crush for some Mythril, of which I do not give a flying damn about. The path is again pretty straightforward. You can smash a rock for an Aeolian Cassock for Himi. Another rock contains the Valkyrie Mail, so I hand that right over to Matthew as it's a better Spiked Set. The door inward requires I set the 4 elements to work, filling a bowl with Douse, lighting a torch with Fireball, spinning a pinwheel with Whirlwind. But I have to do it in order of torches, water than whirlwind, then use Scent to take the path it gives me. Annoying, but it gets the stairs down. I ascend... Apollo Sanctum Like the Aleph Sanctum? First thing I see is a statue of the Wise One, so I pray to heal back up and save. The door will only open when the emblems are correctly aligned. This place is beautifully made. I head left as it's my only option until I find Mint. A cool moment of having to run past archers or else I get shot down to the lower end. I run past, Crush a pillar to release the fire wheel of which rolls after me, and I run back to push down a button to allow the fire wheelto move towards the emblem I saw earlier to open the way. Well, a path to the right opens up rather. Now this one's a bit more simple, just blow some wind, move some stuff, get a Psy Crystal. I move the weel to align back with the wall, opening another path to the left. The chest here contains a Hard Nut, and again is a pretty simple room compared to something like the fire room. I align the water wheel, now opening a last path to the right. I notice one last djinn in this room, the Mars djinn Aurora. I rearrange the djinn for Karis and Reif, making them a Scholar and Guru respectively. Matthew shows off some impressive acrobatics as he flips over to the other side to let the wheel pass. I align it to open the wall. Death is the dark reflection of life. To enter, create my dark reflection. I reallign the wheels, and my mind is blown that the goddess statues that I found so familiar are the combined image of the elements. I get the feeling I'm about to enter somewhere finalizing, so I save. As we enter, we learn why the Umbra Gear is important. Without it, we would be swallowed by the power of the light. It is here we reach a familiar point with a guage telling us we can't be in the light too long. We play as Sveta guiding us, and we go into the light, using hte three gems to show the way ahead. Or rather, it unlocks a sword...Could it be? Yes it is! THE SOL BLADE!! YEEEEEEE!! Removing it activates machinations that seem to...Make a gun, with Apollo at the core. This thing is beastly in Matthew's hands, getting above 700 Atk out of it. I save before entering hte core of Apollo...The Sol Blade is used to open the door, which I swear I've seen before. I enter the core. I crush pillars into place, and I activate gears. The gear motions activate to have Apollo amplify them on machinations outside, making a ...satellite dish? I turn the last gear, and I turn the lens (which still looks like a cannon. The thing starts to activate, and Apollo is disassembled for a darker body, the dishes magnifying it with the power of the gems, and it laucnhes it's power into the lens/cannon thing. Not Alex seems to have gotten here quite quick, asking if we had finished with the perperations. This is the one time Matthew actually speaks, and it's bleeped out because it's a cursing. He teleports before us, being the troll we know him to be. Kraden points out it's Alex (THANK YOU), he says "what makes you think I am this "alex?"", as if we're that stupid. As for the name Arcanus, it imvolves a deck of cards used to tell fortunes, the cups and swords similar to Blados and Chalis, Arcanis being the most important card in the deck (If he's talking about Tarot, I do not know of this Arcanus card at all, though he's right about the swords and cups.).Alex would love to have his ego stroked a bit more, but he's pressed for time. The Tuaparang want him to hurry up, and it's then I remember about them as they do an airdrop on me. Blados and Chalis show up once more, evesdropping and finding his name, of which he finds rude of them. Reif tries to convince them that Alex is a lying backstabbing snake (a true statement), and Karis mentions that it can't be Alex. Alex tried to use the Golden Sun to become immortal, but was killed when the damned mountain fell on him. That interests me quite a bit because that's the entire reason I was stunned by the announcement of a Golden Sun 3. Blados talks shit to Alex, Chalis tells him to cool it while Alex keeps his swagger. It seems that loyalty is not common among these three...Alex wishes to untangle the final webs of deception. Blados andChalis are scions of the Umbra Clan, Dark Adepts if you will. The empyror had sent Alex to make sure the Lens was well an active, rather than Blados and Chalis, showing doubt in their loyalty (how the fuck does Alex get away with this shit!?). Alex then asks one thing. Those soldiers in the airdrop. Were they really Tuaparang soldiers? It seems that they either want to aim at Sol Sanctum, or the Tuaparang. Alex says he will distract Blados and Chalis, while we throw the switch. Uhhh...Shit. Am I really helping Alex against something more evil than he? Am I about to nuke Sol Sanctum? Tua Soldiers are jokes. They give a lot of EXP and Waters of Life on top of it. If you need to grind, do it now. We reach the Apollo Statue only to find a Chaos Hound stop us, but it stops short of Sveta. I think I know who this is. She slaps it out of reactionary fear, but then realizes odd emotions form it. Reading it's mind, she finds out it's Volecheck. It's bizarre to see her treating her brother as though a mad dog, commanding him not to attack us. It tries to fight the darkness that has infected him. Tried telling him to hold on, but then Chalis comes in...Did they actually beat Alex? Blados comes in as well, with the teleporting light Alex normally has...That's not good. It seems we're going to have to go through Volecheck...Though Blados says they'll deal with the eclipse when they're quite well and ready to. Well...Guess this is it. Boss Fight: Blados, Chalis and Chaos Hound One round of Protector and Angel Spear, going Beastmode to Psynergy Surge, everyone else attacks normally aside from Himi who just nukes. Psynergy Slam Beast Mode hits the hardest of any attack. Blados goes down easy, and Chalis does next to nothing. Chaos Hound does a Dark Blow, of which does 111 damage to Beast Mode Sveta, so I can instantly see it's deadly to anyone mortal. I manage to down the Chaos Hound, of which then the fight ends (Had I known that's all I needed to do...). So it seems that Blados and Chalis planned to escape, but they did not realize the power of the beast, as Volecheck uses the power of the eclipse to draw them in and absorb them. Aw shit, here we go! Final Boss: Chaos Chimera Ok, thins got creepy all of a sudden. It grew the arms of Blados and Chalis, even keeping Blados's long-ass sword along with a pair of wings. It hits decently hard (100 damage about to Matthew), and can attack twice (It has psy grenades!? Shit!). I'm sorry, it attacks 3 times! It has a Psy Shield of which can reduce attacks pretty hard, and Dark Clash-GAAAAAAAHHH FUCK!! Around 400 damage nuke! Yeah, this is a final boss alright. Seriously, what took them so long? This may be the first truly challenging thing this game threw at me. It really loves abusing that Shield, it's like it has one of those Aura Protecting abilities djinn normally have. He then uses Retribution-FUCK! He hits everyone and can insta-kill!? Gaahh, Haunting Breath, Chaos Upheaval! This thing devestates! After a couple of surprises (namely, getting my 2 of my revivers killed, and the third got their djinn blasted, followed by ome unlucky Retributions, actually having to switch to my other team because of three turns of straight up horrid luck), I finally kill the damned beast. First time I actually had to bust out my djinn. Saved by Sveta's beastmode, making her beastly. So we mourn a bit for Volecheck, who had apparently saved himself. So what I thought was more just the three bastards using him when he was right for capture turned out to be Volecheck's own damned fault. As Volecheck is now a creature of darkness, ending the Eclipse will bring fourth the light and kill him. We can't fix him back either, as his body has already gone through too much. Sveta accepts it, knowing her brother would understand. Kraden asks us to kindly throw the switch (Kraden's played some Bioshock lately I see...) I try to climb the ladder to flip the switch, but I get knocked off my block by the light. Oh dear, Sveta has to do this? ;;>> I feel Sveta will carry a lot of emotional baggage in her future. Well...I guess I should try again? Get knocked on my ass again. This time, Alex stops me and tells me I cannot do this through telekenesis. I try again, getting knocked on my ass. Blados tells me to give up, and I promptly give him the finger. In fact, they were gonna send Volecheck up there to mess the thing up themselves, since it seems that it is an impossible situation to survive. It could be a trap...Sveta tells me to give her my strength to do it herself, but she seems a bit too weak... Will I help her? I'm actually prompted with this. I just shat a brick, I have to decide if it's Matthew or Sveta who dies? FUUUUUU-....I say no, and it tells me she cannot walk without my strength...Fuck. I hit yes, as she's not giving me a choice. Oh shit, I'm with her and if I do this...We both die!? Gaah, give me a heart attack why don't ya!? Damned game's tense ending. It's then that I'm knocked off the top of hte machine by Volecheck (You were on your ass a second ago!). It's then that Kraden asks what the lens is aimed at exactly. Volecheck in what remaining moments of sanity he can grasp at activates the lens and fires the cannon at the Eclipse Tower (Which I just realized is like point blank). It shoots a beam of light to the heavens to pierce the darkness...The light bizarre, but inducing of peace. Volecheck just saved the world for us. Now we're back in Belinsk! Yaaaayyy!! It's nice and happy, has that jazzy music, and out of the front of the castle we see Matthew pacing about waiting for Sveta out there with Tyrell and Karis. Matthew gets axious, Tyrell gets impatient. Seems they already made her queen. Man they move quick. Guards say she went into town, so I shrug and go looking for her. I ask the band to play some Lady Moon, and I like the calmer toon. I check out some Rainbow over Koba. I love Rainbow Over Koba Desert the most, as it has a distinct melody to it, and fits the town well. I talk to some of the people about town, and one kid says something that just surprises me. Apparently they have become adepts, but not for things like Fire and Wind, but rather for Light! Awesomesauce. After a good eon of trying to search through town (and most of it is behind locked doors), Karis pipes up about wondering where everyone is, we decide to head for the town gates to see Eoleo, seeing us off as we return home. Unfortunate we could not meet Svetka one last time. Ahh, actually seems the rest of the group is here to see us off. Even Vande and the band stops by to thank us, giving us a hero's sending off. I get offers to stay in Belinsk though, and we are certainly made bashful by all of it. But we have to remember why we originally came all the way out here. All this for a damned feather! So we go off on our own paths... So ends Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, and I had a blast. It's easily better than Lost Age, and I struggle to decide if I like it even more than the original! I think my only criticism about this game is that most of the dungeons seem a bit too straightforward (you'll notice I said that word a lot through this log), which can sort of kill the puzzle aspect of the game, but not so much as to make it feel more of an obvious chore the game is making me do. I also recall back in the old games, and how positive I would think about how constraining hte djinn are in this game compared to the original two. This is due to characters joining in steadily instead of mostly having only 4 characters, which forces your djinn to equialize out at constant steps, of which was not the case in the other two of which you could just freely psycho power your guys immediately. Another benefit of characters coming in steadily: Freedom of classes. There is less hogging for specific djinns to force your other team mates into classes they may or may not want to be. Thus your team feels much more freely constructed, and of course it just helps with the flow of the game. The story I felt had kept the mystery and suspense that Golden Sun is known for, and it is much more beautifully flushed out, along with presented in a more satisfying way while keeping to the Golden Sun fashion. It feels a bit easy though, but Golden Sun's not exactly hard. I wonder if it will have a hard mode like Lost Age did, because that would be awesome. Maybe it was because I did something other than the base classes (of which I hear suck, but I went base classes in the past Golden Suns so perhaps that's why I feel the old games were "harder"). Well,it was harder until the end. Volecheck stomps nuts as the final boss, and kicks Fusion and Doom Dragons ass as one. The dragons couldn't possibly insta-kill a group, nor did they have a way to drain your PP, and they didn't have an "an aura protects you during your 3 attacks a turn!". It's like he's using djinn hacks against you. The world is great, and it gave me a bit of time to figure stuff out for myself for once when I got the boat. A bit late in the game for htat, but I appreciate the thought. Love what they did with unleashes. Just wish monsters were stronger to go against it. I'll talk more about the story in the next posts, and also my character reviews. Until then, seems I get back with my folks still living in the cabin (did I just say my folks about Garret and Isaac?...). I'd be glad to be home, if there wasn't a giant-ass black hole just above the bridge. I knew there were some things left open, such as the Mourning Moon, what the hell happened to Alex, and what of the Tuaparang with their Dark Adepts, and of course the emergence of Light Adepts. I am so hyped for the sequel already. I wants mah Light and Dark Adepts and their Light and Dark djinn! Oh cool, seems it sent me to Tonfon with all the stuff I got out of the Sanctum! Guess I'm not done yet exploring the rest of the magic this world has to offer... Until then, I thank you all for the help, and for reading over my own little playthrough of an incredible game. EDIT: To answer your questions, Narga. 1. Does it really matter if I can? Amiti's still just Reif with better stats and better weapons. 2. Whoops, misread the charts. Edited December 12, 2010 by Amaterasu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 13, 2010 Author Share Posted December 13, 2010 Suppose I should give this game a final review. Gameplay: 4/5 When it comes to your own team, you are given a lot more freedom with how you set yourself up thanks to the fact you get a 5th member early, and it goes on from there as to better suit your djinn setting needs. You can be as powerful, as versatile, or as gimmicky as you want to be. While some are powerful and others are weak, no one in particular seems overpowered or useless (as much as I can exaggerate in an argument). With how the game flows, it's easy to see that you will use all your members at least once (And now thinking about it, I don't think I'd have been too hurt with Eoleo taking Amiti's place during the brief time frame between getting him and getting Himi, and I can think of a few reasons why that might be a close argument). More or less, the characters and the classes all function quite fine, and you are free to do whatever you want with it, providing a great opportunity to mix it up every playthrough. However, I cannot give this game a perfect in this department. Why? It's way too easy. There's never really a part where it feels dangerous. Enemies are rather weak, and I felt like I was a lawnmower to grass. Even bosses weren't threatening, and the only time I ever felt threatened was with the final boss, since he had a couple hax abilities (a nuke attack that has a chance to OHKO the group it touches, an Aura of Protection move similar to the one your djinn give. Beats whatever Fusion and Doom Dragon had). Now I would not normally find this a problem. I can enjoy an easy game. This was a perfectly enjoyable game regardless, it's just I feel it could have been harder. Come on Camelot, no Hard Mode? You did it for Lost Age, why not here? I know Golden Sun is not a game known for difficulty, but it's just be nice to be thrown a bone here, because this is like the only flaw I can find. This goes for the puzzles as well, along with the dungeon design. Atmospherically it's fine, but I just remember back to the other two games where you had to actually explore the dungeon. Dungeons in this game feel too straightforward. Also, I found the length of the game perfectly fine. I've been hearing complaints about how this game is "short", when to me it feels no shorter than the other 2 games. The game paces itself well, and I appreciate it. Story: 5/5 I found everything acceptable, and nothing came out at me as weird or off (Well, aside from how Bilibin in 30 years became a power nation that enslaved a race that just EVOLVED, then those slaves fought and won their independence through a civil war, AND built their OWN power nation, but I'll let that slide under the basis of "Golden Sun is funky like that" ). Now obviously it's riddled with cliches, but Golden Sun has a ack for taking cliches and making them cool again. The aspects of the Light and Dark psynergies (Light and Dark often being something touched upon in just about every RPG) did not feel gimmicky or forced, and I in fact found cool and intense as they were introduced. The beastmen (furries) was a weird turn of events, but at least it gives an explanation I can live with (though again, evolving, then being enslaved, then getting independence through war, and THEN building your own power nation in the span of 30 years? Bit of a stretch), and can be glad they didn't take anything too far with it (They have heightened senses and can slap things with their minds, the end). The characters had a lot more personality, both in main characters and NPCs. Alex is trolling on a masterful level, and Chalis/Blados make Saturos and Minardi look incompetent (Face it, the only thing that went wrong with their plan to satisfy the orders of their Empyror was that you were unkillable, it's the one part of their scheme that didn't work out. Only point of incompetence was the Chaos Hound absorbing them at random, and they weren't prepared for that. Then again, they didn't even know it could do that, so I could still let it slide. How many problems did Saturos and Minardi have to deal with? They could only barely get halfway through their mission). But I think the main reason the story feels so tight and good is that nothing seems like padding or unecessary. Granted in GS1, the unecessary stuff was more a traditional RPG sense that you are miracle workers saving those that cannot save themselves, and GS2...GS3 just seems far more solid in making every bit matter, and is executed handily. It's not like a story that will change your outlook on the world of course, but it should certainly hold your interest. Hmm, would that make it a 4/5 then? Regardless, it's solid. Presentation: 5/5 It retains it's Golden Sun style, but also takes the new things a real 3D environment gives us to make the game feel more satisfying or atmospheric. The music is also amazing, best soundtrack of the three. Everything about this game melds well together to make for a satisfying experience. Everything is lush, cold, warm, dark, bright, sunny, happy-go-lucky and/or doom-and-gloom as it needs to be, precisely when it needs to. Weyard's as fun a place to be in, and it may be even moreso than in the last games. Overall: 4.5/5 If you don't have this game, go get it. Like, right now. It's refreshingly awesome. Now on a more gameplay standpoint, I will review the characters next post, along with maybe looking into their personalities of them and the NPCs. 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Life Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Balance wise through the characters, best game that exists. I'm doing another runthrough (collecting data for my guide) and fuck, Karis is weak in midgame while being a beast up to Konpa and after the Eclipse. That being said, I pulled off a hilarious victory against Ku-Tsung and Ku-Embra by powering up Harmony's Diamond Dust (yes, I had him in Aqua Squire) with Nereid and Poseidon for the lulz. But yes, this game is stupidly easy. There are only 2 fights where I legitimately had problems while just trying the beat the game normally. The Stealthy Scout battle and the final boss (3 Outer Spaceish moves in a single turn isn't fair). If I die elsewhere in the game, it's either me being stupid (Karis in the Ku fight) or a OHKO move connecting on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 Aqua Squire and Mariner are classes I want to like, but are unfairly meh. It has awesomeness like Diamond Berg, and the two characters had personality (Well, Piers had personality compared to the rest of his group). But no,it's just a meh combat class. Bastard move. Man, I'm actually thinking of picking this game right back up from the start again to do a Base Class runthrough. Just like the good ol' days when I didn't know any better. Now, the character ratings. Matthew Our protagonist. Silent as always, but you're given a bit more freedom to make personality for him. However, I found the Emotional Choices disappointing since they didn't always correctly reflect what you thought they might mean. Hell, even the game knows it since eventually they just stop popping up. I do appreciate the ability to be a dick to people I hate in the game though. Despite the gimmicks, it's impossible not to like him. Had the most dialogue of all the main characters (while they were the star of their games mind you), in that he had 1 line of actual spoken dialogue, and that was bleeped out because it was a curse. In-game performance speaking, I find him kinda meh at the start. Karis has better magic and Tyrell hits harder. Not to say he drags the team down, but he doesn't have much to speak out with to show he's his own person in the team. That changes once you get the Jupiter djinn near Kaocho. Then he sort of puts on the god mode, able to do essentially everything. He feels a brief bit of superhero powers until Amiti comes along. Not that Amiti outclasses him, but rather by then the others start getting some of their better psynergies and balance him out by catching up. From there, he has the distinction of being the tanky guy of the team as a Cavalier, takes the hits and dishes them out. He retains this role for a good amount of time until lategame where godly equpment show up, and there starts to be access to the higher classes. This is when Matthew becomes among the best on your team, if not the best. It starts when he becomes a Berserker, allowing him to put the best strength behind the best weapons like the Titan's Blade and Sol Blade being weapons unique only to him. Berserker to Chaos Lord is the equivelent of him experiencing The Quickening. His offensive psynergies are balls, but considering you probably only need one team member with a good nuke to get by effortlessly, he's perfectly fine with retaining just the ability to Revive someone. Sol Blade Berserker with all the Crit boosting equipment is just too frightening. While he was not the best person on my team from time to time, there was never any real question to switch him out. There's no real reason to replace him with anyone else. Tyrell As a character, I hate this kid and Garret should be ashamed to call him his son. He's dumb like his dad, but his dad was a lovable oaf who had moments of awesomeness. Tyrell on the other hand is a raging douchebag who has hissy fits whenever someone mentions he's a moron (which he is, constantly). Though I suppose in personality, it did make him gutsier than his dad. His dad was more a sidekick while Tyrell was more obviously his own man. He was still a sidekick, but at more times than not he's more than happy to speak for himself. There were times I even agreed with him, though still hating him. So despite how much I dislike Tyrell, I can't say he's a bad character. As far as in-game performances go though, he may be one of the best, if not the best. That sorta pissed me off to find out. Early on, he is distinct form Matt and Karis in that he hits the hardest, of which comes of benefit that he makes the best use of some early djinns. This changes at the time you start getting more into dual-element classes (notably Kaocho's jupiter djinn making Matthew awesome) giving characters more variance, but he is still your hardest hitter, along with the fact that not far off is Arid Scorch. Arid Scorch is hilariously powerful for the time you get it, and spamming it during boss fights proved to be more effective than any seriously dedicated spellcaster could muster. Arid Scorch remains good until you start getting equal to higher powered psynergies, which point it just sorta dies off (Cause Fire is an awful psynergy to use constantly, as most enemies I have found tend to resist fire). Regardless, he consistently gets the best equipment to share with Matthew, and does not ever really face competition for being hte master of your team until Svetka shows up. I'll get to her when I do, but Tyrell when she's on the team is still a powerful force thanks to his superb equipment selection. Then you get the Orichalcon, and while forging Excalibur is annoying, it's worth it if only for Tyrell to be awesome. He never shows a sign of weakness, and at worst he will be the 3rd best on your team. That is a huge amount of standing power he has throughout the game. Karis Personality-wise, she probably stands out the most due to her brilliance. She has dialogue that is not once wasted, being able to outthink situations, be supportive, or keep members in check (most notably, Tyrell). Quite a bit would be lost without her clarity and intelligence. She's as outspoken as Tyrell (ok, maybe not AS much), but she is far better in getting her thought across. It's almost a stark contrast to her quite father Ivan. Ivan is brilliant in his own way, but he never really shined out like Karis did. Karis is hard to hate imo. In-game performance speaking...Well, early on she is easily your best, having the best psynergies (and they're wind elemental, which is great since most enemies are weak to wind) of which to make battles cake. This trend continues...Until Amiti comes along. Amiti can essentially do anything Karis can do while being a bit better physically, and it becomes a choice on who you put in the last slot between her and Reif. It is a tough competition, as Reif can equip Frostbite to free up Amiti to do something like add on more damage than Karis would do, or free him up to do Wish. However, she is not beaten just because Mercurians gained a powerful nuke, as Water is also sorta meh to have to deal with resistances, while Wind is godlike in how many weaknesses it can hit, and Amiti can just equip Frostbite anyways. Only real problem is that Karis and Amiti might fight for equipment a bit since they for the most part have the same exact equipment selection. It's only when Svetka shows up that Karis just cannot compete anymore. But that is not to say that her power early on does not speak volumes for how utilic she is in earlygame. Reif Reif doesn't really stand out much. He can be talkative at times, and he seems knowledgeable. He's sort of like a mini-Kraden. This would be cool, if Kraden didn't just show up. ThenReif just sort of fades into the backround. In fact, he doesn't even bring up concern for her sister too often. He's smart, but absent minded and introverted. Not much else I can say about him, really. In-game, Reif may be the worst character on the team. He's only on the team for a brief moment before Amiti shows up, and during that time he does not stand out much at all. Then Amiti shows up, and s him with not only better stats (unless you count Luck, which I don't because status is like non-existent in this game until really late into it), but better equipment selection. Amiti's definitely going to be on the team, so it's between him and Karis. The big difference between them is that Reif has Wish, while Karis helps dish out more damage. This helps somewhat during a boss fight, but during normal fights where you're never going to die unless you're stupid, Reif is incredibly lackluster and can't exactly do anything that Karis or Amiti can do better. Bad weapon selection to top it all off, Reif is a character who is simply just outclassed. Amiti As acharacter, it's hard not to like Amiti for being awkward among the normal folk. He has guts when he absolutely shouldn't (I would think talking shit to piraets when they completely surround you and your friends is a bad idea), and generally is more formal than the rest of your group (as shown by talking to Laurel and Tret in Kolima). However, he's proabbly the most noteworthy character in that his story is one of self-improvement, feeling he has to earn his right to the throne for the people he shows concern for throughout the game. He's a bit introverted like Reif is, but not so much that he seems non-existent. Gentle, devoted,and simple. In fact, it's sort of a calling point with how simply he views the world for when the pirates get involved. Looked upon briefly, but the point was made. In-game performance, he is sort of a triple classer, being able to heal, fight and nuke while not doing spectacular in any of the cases (Aside from Nuke, thank you Frostbite). Being decent physically while having Frostbite is really what makes him stand out for when you get Frostbite, as it cements his place in the group until it weakens out. His existence is what changes the game up about midway through, and he has a good chance of staying on the team until Eoleo or Himi shows up. He's versatile for mid game, but by lategame his standing power weakens a bit too much. He's great for mid, but I would not put money on his long run. Sveta Personality-wise, she is what I would call a bit strange. She's straight to the point and can easily have a clear understanding of any situation. She has a deep concern about her brother and hte kingdom of Belinsk, but when it falls she seems to remain silent about it. She understands, but it seems more bottled up than anything. While she is often not that talkative, you feel that her lack of speaking says more than words, perhaps showing that the situation that has befallen her nation and family has scarred her. She knows there'sa greater threat out there, and will even give her life if it means the end of the problem. She doesn't seem it, but she is tough stuff. Speaking of tough, Svetka when she shows up is absolutely bonkers. Her stats are all around impressive and outperforming everyone in your team, has great EPAs of multiple elements, and even has Beastform for bosses. I am positive fights would go on longer without her, most notably Blados and Chalis. 4 turns? That's stunning.While she is not around for the earlygame and joins late in the mid, the impact she makes at that time is astounding. She and Tyrell are hte only people I can name off the top of my head that make such an impact during certain points of the game. Even in lategame, while stats tend to balance out a bit and people get more psynergetic variance, she's still great in her own right thanks to Umbra Gear, and Beastmode is still insane for a boss fight. I'm talking keeping up with Sol Blade Megiddo good. I think her only weakness is not having a Wish spell (I thought Boon was, turns out it's a weaker Ply). Oh well, at least she has Revive. Eoleo Personality wise, he's the weakest. Not a lot of screen time, and he doesn't show much personality for the little time he has. He just makes remarks of things really. Not much to say. In-game performance I did not use him, but I think I can make a judgement call. He's one of the characters that replaces Amiti for the lategame. Essentially he's a Tyrell clone with a worse weapon selection, and has to deal with sharing equipment with Tyrell AND Matthew. He comes at a time for when a dedicated mage is more called for, and he's not that. Having only hand-me-downs and weaker weapons is not a good way to go into things, and he has to deal with it his whole existence. All he really has to his name is that he hits harder with Masamune than Himi would, and is significantly tougher, along with having access to classes like Ninja and Samurai. I think the classes can make or break the choice between Himi and Eoleo, but I feel that Himi is better just on the fact she has no one to compete for her equipment. Though I recall hearing you could get another piece of Orichalcon somehow. If you can, he can have a better edge in weaponsby getting a Titanic Axe Himi She has very little screen time, but I find it funny how they made her rather important in that time by making her like a sort of golden child scion. I again can't say much, but unlike Eoleo who has SOME time to make himself noticeable, Himi just has no time at all. In-game, she has to compete with Eoleo in who replaces Amiti. She has an easier time being a class who has healing spells like Wish, but what seperates her more is offensive psynergies. While Eoleo can be another hardass with Samurai or Ninja (I'd opt for whatever Tyrell isn't), she can choose to have a class with more varied and powerful psynergies on top of healing (that is, she has more to say than Reif would with Karis earlier on). Her equipment selection at the time is probably better than Eoleo's. While Eoleo could put the Masamune to better use, Himi doesn't have to compete for her armor, and as such could boost her performance through indirect means. I suppose they're interchangeable. So, if I had to make tiers for these characters, it would be like this. Top Tyrell Svetka Mid Matthew Karis Amiti Low Himi Eoleo Bottom Reif Impressions of NPCs may follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Time for me to call bullshit on your ratings. But hey, to each their own, right? Formulae here so that you know what I'm talking about. [spoiler=Formulae from GS2 but apparently still relevant]Relative Attack: Relative Attack = (User's Attack - Target's Defense). If (Relative Attack < 0), Relative Attack = 0. Relative Power: Relative Power = (User's Power - Target's Resist). If (Relative Power < -200), Relative Power = -200. If (Relative Power > 200), Relative Power = 200. Basic Physical Attack: Base Damage = Relative Attack Critical Hits: Damage = [base Damage * 1.25] + [Target's Level / 5] + 6 Special Physical Attacks: Damage = [base Damage * Mult Mod] + Add Mod If Elemental, Damage = [Damage * (1 + Relative Power / 400)] Basic Psynergy Attacks: Psynergy has own Base Damage Damage = [Psynergy Base Damage * (1 + Relative Power / 200)] Curative Psynergy: Psynergy has own Base Healing Healing = [Psynergy Base Healing * Caster's Power / 100] Area Reduction: Basic Area Psynergy is reduced by the ratio: 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20%, 10%. Diminishing Area Psynergy is reduced by the ratio: 100%, 50%, 30%, 10%, 10%, 10%. Summons are reduced by the ratio: 100%, 70%, 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%. Physical Attacks are never reduced. A(ll) Target Psynergy is never reduced. Abilities that don't do normal damage are never reduced. Random Damage: All attacks with Random Damage have a number between 0 to 3 added to them Status Damage: Poison deals 10% of Max HP in damage per turn Deadly Poison deals 20% of Max HP in damage per turn Haunt causes you to randomly take 25% of the damage you dealt an enemy whenever you attack In-game performance speaking, I find him kinda meh at the start. Karis has better magic and Tyrell hits harder. Not to say he drags the team down, but he doesn't have much to speak out with to show he's his own person in the team. That changes once you get the Jupiter djinn near Kaocho. Then he sort of puts on the god mode, able to do essentially everything. He feels a brief bit of superhero powers until Amiti comes along. Not that Amiti outclasses him, but rather by then the others start getting some of their better psynergies and balance him out by catching up. From there, he has the distinction of being the tanky guy of the team as a Cavalier, takes the hits and dishes them out. He retains this role for a good amount of time until lategame where godly equpment show up, and there starts to be access to the higher classes. This is when Matthew becomes among the best on your team, if not the best. It starts when he becomes a Berserker, allowing him to put the best strength behind the best weapons like the Titan's Blade and Sol Blade being weapons unique only to him. Berserker to Chaos Lord is the equivelent of him experiencing The Quickening. His offensive psynergies are balls, but considering you probably only need one team member with a good nuke to get by effortlessly, he's perfectly fine with retaining just the ability to Revive someone. Sol Blade Berserker with all the Crit boosting equipment is just too frightening. While he was not the best person on my team from time to time, there was never any real question to switch him out. There's no real reason to replace him with anyone else. I can actually agree with most of this rating except with you claiming Chaos Lord as being Matthew's niche class instead of Master. Let's first look at the stats. Class HP PP Att Def Agl Lck Required Djinni ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chaos Lord 200% 120% 170% 140% 160% 70% 7 Mars, 2 Venus Master 200% 160% 170% 140% 190% 80% 5 Jupiter, 4 Mars If you thought Chaos Lord was balling, try Master. That's just stats. Then you can look at the Psynergy and start crying. Chaos Lord has Planetary (98 Add Mod is sick, don't get me wrong) and Revive but nothing else that deserve mention (yay Stone Spire in a class with a 120% PP bonus). Master sports 3 elements (Punji Strike, Carpet Bomb and Hurricane all suck but Thunderstorm sports 190 Dam which easily outdamages Stone Spire) and has three EPAs to boot (Death Leap has an Add Mod of 110 and I said that 98 for Planetary was nuts while Shuriken hits 3 people with a Mult Mod of 0.8 and Annihilation can OHKO an enemy on top of a Mult Mod of 1.5). So yeah. Still agree with most of your comments, Matthew is quite weak throughout the early and middle stages of the game. His only possible saving grace during the midgame is Apprentice and there's no chance that he's getting Jupiter Djinni when you have 2 Water Adepts in the party who can both get access to Wish and some really good Psynergy. Side note: Felix had more dialect than Matthew. Aside from "Why?" during Trial Road, he had a couple of lines at the end of the game. Even though Golden Sun likes having silent protagonists, I think that Felix legitimately didn't like talking (he doesn't really talk that much during the first game with comparison to Isaac's chatter in the 2nd and 3rd games). As far as in-game performances go though, he may be one of the best, if not the best. That sorta pissed me off to find out. Early on, he is distinct form Matt and Karis in that he hits the hardest, of which comes of benefit that he makes the best use of some early djinns. This changes at the time you start getting more into dual-element classes (notably Kaocho's jupiter djinn making Matthew awesome) giving characters more variance, but he is still your hardest hitter, along with the fact that not far off is Arid Scorch. Arid Scorch is hilariously powerful for the time you get it, and spamming it during boss fights proved to be more effective than any seriously dedicated spellcaster could muster. Arid Scorch remains good until you start getting equal to higher powered psynergies, which point it just sorta dies off (Cause Fire is an awful psynergy to use constantly, as most enemies I have found tend to resist fire). Regardless, he consistently gets the best equipment to share with Matthew, and does not ever really face competition for being hte master of your team until Svetka shows up. I'll get to her when I do, but Tyrell when she's on the team is still a powerful force thanks to his superb equipment selection. Then you get the Orichalcon, and while forging Excalibur is annoying, it's worth it if only for Tyrell to be awesome. He never shows a sign of weakness, and at worst he will be the 3rd best on your team. That is a huge amount of standing power he has throughout the game. Tyrell has the best earlygame without a doubt. I find it quite alright to snub both Crown and Harmony by denying them Jupiter just so that Tyrell has enough PP to constantly spam Arid Scorch. His lategame is also quite good except that Eoleo actually overshadows him if both are in the same class. You never really used Eoleo so I call bullshit on any attempt to claim otherwise (I call your Excalibur and raise you a Phaeton's Blade with fucking Centurion). Mind you, this isn't me saying that Tyrell sucks. He's still good. Eoleo's just better in the physical classes. In-game performance speaking...Well, early on she is easily your best, having the best psynergies (and they're wind elemental, which is great since most enemies are weak to wind) of which to make battles cake. This trend continues...Until Amiti comes along. Amiti can essentially do anything Karis can do while being a bit better physically, and it becomes a choice on who you put in the last slot between her and Reif. It is a tough competition, as Reif can equip Frostbite to free up Amiti to do something like add on more damage than Karis would do, or free him up to do Wish. However, she is not beaten just because Mercurians gained a powerful nuke, as Water is also sorta meh to have to deal with resistances, while Wind is godlike in how many weaknesses it can hit, and Amiti can just equip Frostbite anyways. Only real problem is that Karis and Amiti might fight for equipment a bit since they for the most part have the same exact equipment selection. It's only when Svetka shows up that Karis just cannot compete anymore. But that is not to say that her power early on does not speak volumes for how utilic she is in earlygame. Karis disappointed me in this game. Let's take a look at why. Cabin - Konpa: High PP count along with good moves (Whirlwind off the bat, Flash Bolt at level 6, Plasma at level 8) allows her to blast through enemies but in the one fight that you'd like Psynergy the most (Stealth Scout), once she's out, she's useless. Ei-Jei: She's your healer with Earth Djinni. She can pull out Flint for moderately OK damage or Flower as a mini-Wish but she doesn't have offense during this period. Morgal: Tyrell has Arid Scorch. Crown/Harmony has Frostbite and either Mars or Mercury (I'll explain why later) while the other one gets Earth Djinni for Wish, Revive and Cutting Edge when you get 6 Earth (this is why Harmony shouldn't be getting Frostbite but I'll cover that later). Matthew and Karis are fighting for the last spot and both are mediocre in their choices until Matthew can whip out Ninja (won't properly happen until Stella joins). Stella COULD go Hermit to whip out Shine Plasma (100 Dam isn't horrible by any means since only Frostbite and Arid Scorch beat it right now) but she's still being out-damaged no matter the weaknesses that she hits. Eastern Sea: Himi gets an auto spot. Matthew/Eoleo/Tyrell gets an auto spot for Ninja/Samurai. That's 2 spots left and Karis is fighting with 5 other Adepts for it. Depending on how much you like Stella, make that 4 other Adepts for a single spot. Suddenly, Shine Plasma ain't so hot (100 Dam vs. much stronger moves available is not good) and her strongest Psynergy is Sonic Slash in the Pilgrim class. 120 Dam. For the rest of the game (barring her hitting 48 which gives way to Pyroclasm but the game's over by then). No. In-game, Reif may be the worst character on the team. He's only on the team for a brief moment before Amiti shows up, and during that time he does not stand out much at all. Then Amiti shows up, and s him with not only better stats (unless you count Luck, which I don't because status is like non-existent in this game until really late into it), but better equipment selection. Amiti's definitely going to be on the team, so it's between him and Karis. The big difference between them is that Reif has Wish, while Karis helps dish out more damage. This helps somewhat during a boss fight, but during normal fights where you're never going to die unless you're stupid, Reif is incredibly lackluster and can't exactly do anything that Karis or Amiti can do better. Bad weapon selection to top it all off, Reif is a character who is simply just outclassed. Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. No. No. No. I'm now going to whip out the excuse that you're doing it wrong. Crown is... good. He's not great during the entire course of the game (reliant on Frostbite for damage) but he's FAR from being the worst person on the team (award actually goes to Karis). Let me point out why. Better Stats: It be nice if you can pull out some proof to this. Simply because Crown is actually a Defensive tank for a proper mage. He's got a Def growth that is about equal to Matthew's (~1.7 Def a level) and Matthew has the highest Def growth out of your first 5 characters. Let that sink in for a minute (I'm currently working on working it out without hacking so I'm not perfect with my numbers but this is quite a reliable one). EDIT: Due to the level up system still working the same as the previous game, I retract my statement of Crown equaling Matthew's Def growth and change it to "Crown has the best Def growth from 1-20 at the very least". Better Weapons and Equipment: As I pointed out earlier, weapons don't mean shit-all for Crown once Harmony joins. Before that, Crown is reliant on Fever and Lava for damage (Lava is quite strong, to be honest) which is about as good as Karis even though it's physical based. After that, we dick around for a bit and get the Ice Queen which goes to Crown, solving any offensive problems from now until the end of the game. On the Equipment side, Crown does get access to some awesome robes (Aeolian Cassock is +15 Wind Power and +50 Wind Resist, Storm Gear is +30 Resist to Fire/Wind/Water, Muni Robe and Magical Cassock restore HP and PP respectively) and gloves (Spirit Armlet and Virtuous Armlet boost Power of all elements combined so pick and choose). Ice Queen: This one deserves its own paragraph. Crown vs. Harmony for the Ice Queen is a very fun debate. Obviously the winner is much stronger but Crown has a lot more incentives going for him. 1. EPAs. 6 Venus/Mars on a Water Adept nets you the Cavalier class, allowing access to Cutting Edge, a Water based EPA with a 32 Add Mod. Harmony is going to love this because it means that his decent Att can now be used for something. Crown does shit damage since his Att is garbage. 2. Mercury Djinni. These guys are actually very superfluous in this game. Tyrell wants Jupiter, Harmony wants anything but Mercury, Matthew is OK with them but probably prefers Mars (first choice is Jupiter for Mother Gaia at 24 and Astral Blast or Venus for Clay Spire at 20 and Ragnarok and he gets neither for the sake of a better team) and Karis likes them. Water Seer's big problem has always been offense since all it can do is heal (it heals quite well). Frostbite turns Water Seer into a near broken class (AKA Hermit in Golden Sun 1) with fantastic healing and fantastic offense along with a big PP boost (Cleric is 150% PP and only requires 4 Mercury) until stronger Psynergy becomes available. But that's still not for a while. 3. A Better Team: Crown is basically unusable without Frostbite. Take this from a guy who denied him Frostbite during his first run. Harmony is NOT unusable without Frostbite since I found myself using Cutting Edge a lot more often (if you check my playthrough, just look at the Mountain Roc battle for proof). A great Crown and good Harmony > A great Harmony and horrible Crown. In-game performance, he is sort of a triple classer, being able to heal, fight and nuke while not doing spectacular in any of the cases (Aside from Nuke, thank you Frostbite). Being decent physically while having Frostbite is really what makes him stand out for when you get Frostbite, as it cements his place in the group until it weakens out. His existence is what changes the game up about midway through, and he has a good chance of staying on the team until Eoleo or Himi shows up. He's versatile for mid game, but by lategame his standing power weakens a bit too much. He's great for mid, but I would not put money on his long run. I agree with your conclusion but not with your method. Outlined above in the Crown section so I'm not going to rehash my words. Suffice to say that he's usable for the entire game but gets overshadowed by the later Adepts. Speaking of tough, Svetka when she shows up is absolutely bonkers. Her stats are all around impressive and outperforming everyone in your team, has great EPAs of multiple elements, and even has Beastform for bosses. I am positive fights would go on longer without her, most notably Blados and Chalis. 4 turns? That's stunning.While she is not around for the earlygame and joins late in the mid, the impact she makes at that time is astounding. She and Tyrell are hte only people I can name off the top of my head that make such an impact during certain points of the game. Even in lategame, while stats tend to balance out a bit and people get more psynergetic variance, she's still great in her own right thanks to Umbra Gear, and Beastmode is still insane for a boss fight. I'm talking keeping up with Sol Blade Megiddo good. I think her only weakness is not having a Wish spell (I thought Boon was, turns out it's a weaker Ply). Oh well, at least she has Revive. Stella - Great in some classes, shit in others. It's important to note that the Umbra Gear is NOT her best available equipment (I believe that the Cursed Claws are stronger, for example) even though it's forced on her for the endgame. Now if we had Arena in this game, Stella's value would drop in an instant. She gets a max of 9 turns as a Wild Beast but suffers from being OHKO material the second that she transforms back (knocked back to base class with no Djinn Set). Scrapper gives her some good EPAs (Psynergy Surge comes to mind) along with single target healing while Beastling makes her the reason of why Karis is mediocre in this game. She gains Sonic Slash at 31 (120 Dam), Destruct Ray at 36 (150 Dam) and Tempest at 44 (160 Dam). Karis is either stuck to Shine Plasma (100 Dam) or Sonic Slash (120 Dam) until Tempest (only in Wind Seer) or Spark Plasma (180 Dam at level 50) kicks in. Conclusion: 1. Stella's fantastic in this game but suffers badly against the final boss (Djinn Storm cripples her more than anyone else and her offense is also limited to 9 turns). 2. Stella makes Karis obsolete. 3. You're a furry but I can't blame you for liking Stella. I'll pass though since I like consistent high damage, something Stella cannot do. In-game performance I did not use him, but I think I can make a judgement call. He's one of the characters that replaces Amiti for the lategame. Essentially he's a Tyrell clone with a worse weapon selection, and has to deal with sharing equipment with Tyrell AND Matthew. He comes at a time for when a dedicated mage is more called for, and he's not that. Having only hand-me-downs and weaker weapons is not a good way to go into things, and he has to deal with it his whole existence. All he really has to his name is that he hits harder with Masamune than Himi would, and is significantly tougher, along with having access to classes like Ninja and Samurai. I think the classes can make or break the choice between Himi and Eoleo, but I feel that Himi is better just on the fact she has no one to compete for her equipment. Though I recall hearing you could get another piece of Orichalcon somehow. If you can, he can have a better edge in weaponsby getting a Titanic Axe. You forgot about the Phaeton's Blade. Centurion is nuts in this game. Also, Tisiphone's Edge's power is almost equal to Excalibur. Eoleo actually pushes Tyrell into a back row slot by being slightly better. But lack of availability kind of sucks, even though he can get instant Samurai when he appears. He's like Galzus, if you ask me. Fantastic when he shows up but the game's almost over at this point. In-game, she has to compete with Eoleo in who replaces Amiti. She has an easier time being a class who has healing spells like Wish, but what seperates her more is offensive psynergies. While Eoleo can be another hardass with Samurai or Ninja (I'd opt for whatever Tyrell isn't), she can choose to have a class with more varied and powerful psynergies on top of healing (that is, she has more to say than Reif would with Karis earlier on). Her equipment selection at the time is probably better than Eoleo's. While Eoleo could put the Masamune to better use, Himi doesn't have to compete for her armor, and as such could boost her performance through indirect means. I suppose they're interchangeable. You played her wrong. That's all I am going to say. Fear Puppet hits 3 enemies. It stuns about 90% of the time. This move is UNIQUE to Curse Mage!Himi. Putting a Zol Ring on her (you get one for free in Passaj) ups her Agl by 1.8x which means that she will act first. Toxic Grit inflicts Venom (works hand in hand with Stun) and Masamune grants Rising Dragon. Icing on the cake. It reverses the fact that she shows up late and MORE. Fear Puppet is essentially using Death in Final Fantasy against enemies that don't have Instant Death protection. Sure it's cheap. But it ends the battle and you still get all of the spoils. So unless you like taking damage, use Fear Puppet. So, if I had to make tiers for these characters, it would be like this. Top Tyrell Svetka Mid Matthew Karis Amiti Low Himi Eoleo Bottom Reif Funny. Mine would look like this: Broken: Himi High: Stella Tyrell Mid: Crown Eoleo Harmony Matthew Bottom: Karis Also, this was my interpretation of each character near the end of the game. It mirrors what I mentioned above but much less in depth. Especially about Harmony and Crown. Character time! My reflections on the party: Matthew: Yeah, he's your only Earth Adept for half of the game. His midgame is horrible and the fact that he's the only Venus won't give him a pass. He starts to shine again once access to Ninja comes but that doesn't happen for a long time. Tyrell: The opposite of Matt. He starts off powerful, gains Arid Scorch before Harmony even joins and will always be in the party until Eoleo joins up. Problem is, he starts to drop off after that since Eoleo has much better bases (didn't think it was possible but it is) all around. Keep him in the physical classes though. Karis: Decent. Not your best character but hands down not the worst by a mile. She's got a lot more durability than it seems. Crown: Water Seer. That is all. Ice Queen solves offensive problems but he's fighting for it with Harmony. White Mage is an option later in the game if you want to swing it. Harmony: Crown but better thanks to access to bows (he gets the Yew Bow from Kolima Forest and keeps it for a long time). If you have the Djinni to make it work, stick him and Crown in the same party for lulz. He actually works quite well as a Cavalier through midgame but after you escape Belinsk, the weaknesses show. Stella: She can be fantastic in the right classes and shit in the wrong ones. The problem is that the right ones have her fighting for Djinni (Beastling and Brawler) since Ninja/Samurai!Tyrell/Eoleo want both types of Djinni. Beastform is her saving grace though, no matter what. Eoleo: An improved version of Tyrell. Big physical warrior who loves Ninja and Samurai. Himi: Most broken thing since sliced bread. Seriously. If Curse Mage didn't have Fear Puppet, she's be just good thanks to regular Earth classes but a Zol Ring and Fear Pupput immobilizes 90% of the enemies that you face. Try it out for yourself if you don't believe me. Edited December 15, 2010 by Life Admiral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 I can actually agree with most of this rating except with you claiming Chaos Lord as being Matthew's niche class instead of Master. Let's first look at the stats.If you thought Chaos Lord was balling, try Master. That's just stats. Then you can look at the Psynergy and start crying. Chaos Lord has Planetary (98 Add Mod is sick, don't get me wrong) and Revive but nothing else that deserve mention (yay Stone Spire in a class with a 120% PP bonus). Master sports 3 elements (Punji Strike, Carpet Bomb and Hurricane all suck but Thunderstorm sports 190 Dam which easily outdamages Stone Spire) and has three EPAs to boot (Death Leap has an Add Mod of 110 and I said that 98 for Planetary was nuts while Shuriken hits 3 people with a Mult Mod of 0.8 and Annihilation can OHKO an enemy on top of a Mult Mod of 1.5). So yeah. While I would say 2 things in that A. Agility is redundant since he should be attacking before the enemy regardless, and B. For the most part I would say Matthew should just be spamming attacks because he has RIDICULOUSLY awesome weapons by then so the PP bonus also is seemingly pointless, that psynergy list sounds excellent. I'll admit in maybe I just made a mistake between the two classes at the time due to going through blind while not knowing what djinn make what class, but in the least, Revive is nice for the final boss fight for when he lands a lucky Retribution, or does something ridiculous like a triple Dark Clash. He could switch before hte final boss to Chaos Lord, since he'll just be spamming Sol Blade (since psynergy on a single target that isn't EPA is wat) and only using PP for Revive. Still agree with most of your comments, Matthew is quite weak throughout the early and middle stages of the game. His only possible saving grace during the midgame is Apprentice and there's no chance that he's getting Jupiter Djinni when you have 2 Water Adepts in the party who can both get access to Wish and some really good Psynergy. I wouldn't say he's weak as much as I'd say he just doesn't stand out much. He's sort of in-between. I'd also say that 2 wishers for a good amount of the game is unecessary, so it would come down to psynergies and weapon strength. Clearly Matthew's going to win with physical strength, but I don't quite know the psynergy lists by heart. However, I have tended to put more faith in physical strength unless there are huge groups of enemies, of which seem to be a rarity in this game. Side note: Felix had more dialect than Matthew. Aside from "Why?" during Trial Road, he had a couple of lines at the end of the game. Even though Golden Sun likes having silent protagonists, I think that Felix legitimately didn't like talking (he doesn't really talk that much during the first game with comparison to Isaac's chatter in the 2nd and 3rd games). Oh. Well, pardon me on that then. Tyrell has the best earlygame without a doubt. I find it quite alright to snub both Crown and Harmony by denying them Jupiter just so that Tyrell has enough PP to constantly spam Arid Scorch. He certainly wouldn't mind SOME Jupiter, but ALL of it? I would again think that is being kinda wasteful if it means a better fourth party member can be with us. Nothing boosts psynergy power as we know, and I would say the amount of PP you are giving Tyrell is unecessary. Some certainly helps, but there's no reason to be blasting it in every random encounter. If Tyrell can get by with a few Jupiter (which he can) instead ofall of them, I can have epic Scorches along with Sage Amiti. Win win for me. His lategame is also quite good except that Eoleo actually overshadows him if both are in the same class. You never really used Eoleo so I call bullshit on any attempt to claim otherwise (I call your Excalibur and raise you a Phaeton's Blade with fucking Centurion). Mind you, this isn't me saying that Tyrell sucks. He's still good. Eoleo's just better in the physical classes. You realize Excalibur is stronger, right? I felt I did a decent comparison for him saying that it was justifiable to give Eoleo the 4th slot over Himi in the sense that he can still take one of the two epic classes that Tyrell has. It's just imo, for that slot I'd prefer a more dedicated magician who has more of an excuse to throw down nukes and wishes. She has better Wishing (Eoleo's a Mars adept, so if I recall correctly that makes his water power weaker, and Wish is indeed a Water spell if I'm being correct here), and she'd still have perfectly fine spells. I could maybe put him above Himi if I did another runthrough to make sure. I'd still say for the most part they're interchangeable. Karis disappointed me in this game. Let's take a look at why.Cabin - Konpa: High PP count along with good moves (Whirlwind off the bat, Flash Bolt at level 6, Plasma at level 8) allows her to blast through enemies but in the one fight that you'd like Psynergy the most (Stealth Scout), once she's out, she's useless. You run out of PP? There's no need to spam psynergy in every fight you're in if just doing the good ol' triple team works fine. Ei-Jei: She's your healer with Earth Djinni. She can pull out Flint for moderately OK damage or Flower as a mini-Wish but she doesn't have offense during this period. This during the Kaocho/Passaj portion? I would think for the most part this is where Amiti replaces her, and Reif has a brief portion of usefulness in that Frostbite is better than Karis for the time until Svetka shows up, of which Frostbite can just be switched over to Amiti, and we bin Reif for being bad at everything aside from Psynergy, where he's redundant to Amiti. Morgal: Tyrell has Arid Scorch. Crown/Harmony has Frostbite and either Mars or Mercury (I'll explain why later) while the other one gets Earth Djinni for Wish, Revive and Cutting Edge when you get 6 Earth (this is why Harmony shouldn't be getting Frostbite but I'll cover that later). Matthew and Karis are fighting for the last spot and both are mediocre in their choices until Matthew can whip out Ninja (won't properly happen until Stella joins). Stella COULD go Hermit to whip out Shine Plasma (100 Dam isn't horrible by any means since only Frostbite and Arid Scorch beat it right now) but she's still being out-damaged no matter the weaknesses that she hits. I'm pretty sure there are other ways to get Cutting Edge, and having multiple wishers along with Revive is very unecessary at this point in time. I'd say there's more freedom at this point than you make out. Regardless, I'd still say Karis is outclassed at this point, I'd just also add Reif to the outclassed list as well. Eastern Sea: Himi gets an auto spot. Matthew/Eoleo/Tyrell gets an auto spot for Ninja/Samurai. That's 2 spots left and Karis is fighting with 5 other Adepts for it. Depending on how much you like Stella, make that 4 other Adepts for a single spot. Suddenly, Shine Plasma ain't so hot (100 Dam vs. much stronger moves available is not good) and her strongest Psynergy is Sonic Slash in the Pilgrim class. 120 Dam. For the rest of the game (barring her hitting 48 which gives way to Pyroclasm but the game's over by then). No. I'd still say beastform along with being great in general outside of nukes (of which you should have plenty anyways) guarantees a spot for Svetka, but regardless I see your point about Karis and would rightfully agree that Karis will not be seeing lategame. Whiskey.Tango. Foxtrot. No. No. No. I'm now going to whip out the excuse that you're doing it wrong. Crown is... good. He's not great during the entire course of the game (reliant on Frostbite for damage) but he's FAR from being the worst person on the team (award actually goes to Karis). Let me point out why. Karis was actually helpful early on while retaining a majority weakness hit while Amiti takes care of hte Frostbiting. I may just feel that Reif has no use at all. Better Stats: It be nice if you can pull out some proof to this. Simply because Crown is actually a Defensive tank for a proper mage. He's got a Def growth that is about equal to Matthew's (~1.7 Def a level) and Matthew has the highest Def growth out of your first 5 characters. Let that sink in for a minute (I'm currently working on working it out without hacking so I'm not perfect with my numbers but this is quite a reliable one).EDIT: Due to the level up system still working the same as the previous game, I retract my statement of Crown equaling Matthew's Def growth and change it to "Crown has the best Def growth from 1-20 at the very least". I still laugh at this being a good point. You know what's not happening for most of the game? Death. At worst, you got Punish form Blados (which point, doesn't matter how much defenses you have as it just flat out kills you out of blind luck), and Chaos Chimera able to pull out super bombing power. I don't care if by the final boss that Reif has a million HP, won't matter if through most of the game if even Karis could have an easy time surviving. At best, it would be a good point for fighting Chaos Chimera, the end. Also, just defense? Dandy and all, but what about his weak defensive armor typing, or his HP (I don't know how much he has, but he could easily be weak there)? High defense alone does not necessarily a tank make. Better Weapons and Equipment: As I pointed out earlier, weapons don't mean shit-all for Crown once Harmony joins. Before that, Crown is reliant on Fever and Lava for damage (Lava is quite strong, to be honest) which is about as good as Karis even though it's physical based. This is a bit of a silly statement to make. Just after you say weapons don't mean shit for Reif once Amiti joins, and then mention that he's reliant on Djinn to do damage of which I imagine is either physical, or redundant because again, anyone could use those djinn. Including Amiti. After that, we dick around for a bit and get the Ice Queen which goes to Crown, solving any offensive problems from now until the end of the game. And we only need 1 person to have it. Guess who I'm going to say has it? On the Equipment side, Crown does get access to some awesome robes (Aeolian Cassock is +15 Wind Power and +50 Wind Resist, Storm Gear is +30 Resist to Fire/Wind/Water, Muni Robe and Magical Cassock restore HP and PP respectively) and gloves (Spirit Armlet and Virtuous Armlet boost Power of all elements combined so pick and choose). While having a second armlet for boosting elemental power is nice, I would just say that he would only be getting hand-me-downs from Himi, of whom you say is garunteed a spot. 'd also say the Muni Robe is hardly fantastic. HP and PP regeneration would be nice, if by any means I was going to run out of it any time soon. I found the Muni Robe easily replaceable, and even if it wasn't, Himi comes soon after who by all means would get it. I would say she gets it because I'm dumping Reif if I haven't already (I would have already, but whatever), but you would say it because Himi's Curse Master spells are insanely expensive, so the PP restoration would be "helpful" to you. Ice Queen: This one deserves its own paragraph.Crown vs. Harmony for the Ice Queen is a very fun debate. Obviously the winner is much stronger but Crown has a lot more incentives going for him. 1. EPAs. 6 Venus/Mars on a Water Adept nets you the Cavalier class, allowing access to Cutting Edge, a Water based EPA with a 32 Add Mod. Harmony is going to love this because it means that his decent Att can now be used for something. Crown does shit damage since his Att is garbage. To think you had only said a few bits ago that weapons don't mean shit-all. 2. Mercury Djinni. These guys are actually very superfluous in this game. Tyrell wants Jupiter, Harmony wants anything but Mercury, Matthew is OK with them but probably prefers Mars (first choice is Jupiter for Mother Gaia at 24 and Astral Blast or Venus for Clay Spire at 20 and Ragnarok and he gets neither for the sake of a better team) and Karis likes them. Water Seer's big problem has always been offense since all it can do is heal (it heals quite well). Frostbite turns Water Seer into a near broken class (AKA Hermit in Golden Sun 1) with fantastic healing and fantastic offense along with a big PP boost (Cleric is 150% PP and only requires 4 Mercury) until stronger Psynergy becomes available. But that's still not for a while. By "fantastic offense" you mean Frostbite of course, of which I'd say "Just give it to Amiti once you're done with Reif". 3. A Better Team: Crown is basically unusable without Frostbite. Take this from a guy who denied him Frostbite during his first run. Harmony is NOT unusable without Frostbite since I found myself using Cutting Edge a lot more often (if you check my playthrough, just look at the Mountain Roc battle for proof). A great Crown and good Harmony > A great Harmony and horrible Crown. This was an argument about Reif vs Amiti, right? Because it sounds like you're arguing they both should be on the same team. As a note, I DID have them on the same team. Problem was, outside of Frostbite, he was completely useless. I do not need to spam Frostbite to get through battles, and with psynergy it wasn't like I was completely dependent on Frostbite. His only time of standing out was having Frostbite over Karis to kill the Mountain Roc over Karis. Then Svetka entered the picture, and I rightfully told Reif to fuck off since now I can toss Frostbite to Amiti to keep Frostbite's offense while having someone who creams Reif in usefulness in his slot. I'm all for replacing Karis with Reif once Amiti joins (kinda, since again I was hardly dependent on Frostbite). No way in hell though am I using Reif over Amiti on a team where only one of them is allowable. Even if I did use Amiti, I'd still drop him for Eoleo or Himi since psynergies by then will have most likely started equalizing Frostbite out. Suffice to say that he's usable for the entire game but gets overshadowed by the later Adepts. I'd agree with this statement. Stella - Great in some classes, shit in others. It's important to note that the Umbra Gear is NOT her best available equipment (I believe that the Cursed Claws are stronger, for example) even though it's forced on her for the endgame. I'm positive you don't get the Bloody Claws until after the gameis over in Crossbone Island. By the way, severely dissapointed by no Deadbeard fight. Now if we had Arena in this game, Stella's value would drop in an instant. She gets a max of 9 turns as a Wild Beast but suffers from being OHKO material the second that she transforms back (knocked back to base class with no Djinn Set). I hope this isn't part of your serious argument. Scrapper gives her some good EPAs (Psynergy Surge comes to mind) along with single target healing while Beastling makes her the reason of why Karis is mediocre in this game. Psynergy Surge along with Slam, so not only does she have an insanely good EPA to combine with her lulzy beastform, she has 2 different elements for pickingon elemental weaknesses or bypassing resistances to keep her power up. Conclusion:1. Stella's fantastic in this game but suffers badly against the final boss (Djinn Storm cripples her more than anyone else and her offense is also limited to 9 turns). Who doesn't get badly crippled by Djinn Storm? Also, as long as she can recover 1 Djinn, Beastform is still great, because Beastmode stats do not actually depend on having all your djinn active (as reported by Seven Deadly Sins). After one djinn recovers, she's back to rocking (or in the least still having higher damage output than even Megiddo on someone who also got crippled by djinn storm). It's only until everyone else would recover most of their djinn would I say djinn storm actually crippled her severely. 3. You're a furry but I can't blame you for liking Stella. I'll pass though since I like consistent high damage, something Stella cannot do. Nearly tieing Megiddo in damage output in Beast Mode while being more consistent (Megiddo doesn't always activate, Psynergy Slam does) isn't consistent high damage? What the fuck qualifies then? You forgot about the Phaeton's Blade. Centurion is nuts in this game. Also, Tisiphone's Edge's power is almost equal to Excalibur. I have not seen this Tisiphone's Edge. Is it a forge? Because I know for a fact it's not an Orichalcon forge. Because if it is a forge, I might consider putting Eoleo over Tyrell for once we get the forge, because I do not have the patience to get both Excalibur AND the edge. But still, it would show Tyrell has the most staying power of anyone in the game, so I wouldn't think it hurts his placement too much. I'd just use the Orichalcon to make some of the better armor in replacement, since Matthew isn't hurting for weapons by that time. Eoleo actually pushes Tyrell into a back row slot by being slightly better. But lack of availability kind of sucks, even though he can get instant Samurai when he appears. He's like Galzus, if you ask me. Fantastic when he shows up but the game's almost over at this point. Tisiphone's Edge would be the only thing to have me consider slightly better, since the difference of one weapons is easily the definition of slightly. You played her wrong. That's all I am going to say.Fear Puppet hits 3 enemies. It stuns about 90% of the time. This move is UNIQUE to Curse Mage!Himi. Putting a Zol Ring on her (you get one for free in Passaj) ups her Agl by 1.8x which means that she will act first. Toxic Grit inflicts Venom (works hand in hand with Stun) and Masamune grants Rising Dragon. Icing on the cake. It reverses the fact that she shows up late and MORE. My, sure is gimmicky in here. You know what Curse Master has? Par spells that do gimmicky status effects and are nutball expensive for no reason other than status. I'd rather she have normals spells that aren't pointlessly expensive while having better physical stats to put Masamune to better use, especially since Rising Dragon can hit multiple enemies for much stronger damage. I know I'm one to say running out of PP is hardly an issue, but it's just noticeably wasteful. Fear Puppet is essentially using Death in Final Fantasy against enemies that don't have Instant Death protection. Sure it's cheap. But it ends the battle and you still get all of the spoils. So unless you like taking damage, use Fear Puppet. I'm never going to take so much damage in 1 random encounter as to make me fear death, and I can have people in the back row Wish me back up to full health if I'm ever in such a situation. I do not give a shit about damage unless it's the final boss. Then I would like to have a Wisher on my team, something Curse Master does not have. Shun the darkness, Life Admiral, and redeem yourself with the path of the Paladin. Funny. Mine would look like this:Broken: Himi High: Stella Tyrell Mid: Crown Eoleo Harmony Matthew Bottom: Karis Also, this was my interpretation of each character near the end of the game. It mirrors what I mentioned above but much less in depth. Especially about Harmony and Crown. Tyrell has been amazing for most, if not all the game, and you have the balls to say Himi is a tier above amazing over him just for gimmicky shit for a vasty smaller portion of the game? I don't even say Svetka is better than Tyrell, and I even hate Tyrell as a person! Crown looks vastly overrated on your list as expected. Eoleo above Matthew and a tier above Karis? Karis has early utility to compare to his lategame "Being slightly better than Tyrell at his weakest". I again wouldn't consider Matthew weak, just middle of hte road until djinn comes in which case he's good, then he gets his personal weapons which make him The Highlander.He surely kicks the crap out of Eoleo just on basis of existing for longer, much less for the time they share where Matthew badly kicks everyone's ass. *Talks a bit with Seven Deadly Sins again* Tisiphone's Edge is a drop item? From an enemy past the final boss on Crossbone Isle? Life Admiral, come closer so I can smack you hard in the face. 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grandjackal Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 Impressions of NPCs and places that stuck out to me, along with specific parts of the story. Early Parts before the Detour to Kaocho I was kinda disappointed here. I was lead to believe that the world experienced cataclysmic events bordering on apocalyptic, and that people were fighting eachother for resources like it was Fallout. That stuff only happened to the Vale area it seems, and the people of Vale moved on. There was no real fighting to see. I was unable to check out Lunpa and the other nearby towns of the Vale area, but I can live with the idea of I couldn't because the Voids were too much a problem to traverse safely (in fact, I wonder what it's gonna be like in the sequel if we have to travel around those things?). Then I hit the mountain split, and see that people are not fighting for resources, but for more usual reasons. It sort of felt unfulfilled in a way. Maybe it meant JUST the Vale region, which in the sequel I hope they elaborate more on. Isaac and Garret put a smile on my face, just to see how much has changed about them. Isaac seems a bit more laid bac than I remember, and Garret seems far more uptight and concerned. It's also kinda funny how I can make the "two guys living alone in a faraway cabin" joke about them now. Also, Isaac looks ammish, and Garret looks like a more man-chinned version of Freddy Mercury. "New Vale" did not really impress me. Patch is apparently important, but he just seems like an overglorified store clerk who is mad at us whippersnappers (granted he had a good reason for it). The town itself was kinda dull. Really small, with just a giant building, of which like Patch, was just an overglorified store. That he ran. Kraden and Nowell...Was nice to see Kraden hadn't changed much over time, still being hte absent-minded sage that he is, but no real change is noticeable until later. I'll thus discuss it later. Nowell did not leave any impression on me. In fact I was as surprised as Reif was when later on, Kraden reminded us of Nowell and how he was surprised Reif was not showing concern about her. I have a theory though. Much like how Jenna started off Lost Age, Nowell will start off the sequel for the next game. Putting my money on it now. Piers will play either A. A roll like Kraden in being the advisor, B. He is the Mercury Warrior for the game, or C. He DIES at some point. Imagine that though. A game where the main hero isn't a Venus Warrior. Speaking of wherever the hell Nowell went, that lumberjack we launched across a chasm went nowhere quick. We never found out his fate or anything. Was a cool town though. Had a point to it (They're lumberjacks, people need wood), had good stuff there, and had a cool setting to me (as if on a mountain base). I don't even remember his name. For fucks sakes, I remember PATCH over this guy. The voids I found interesting in how they were natural phenomenon that were being studied as if scientifically...It didn't really go anywhere, but it hangs in the back of your head, and you know it will be important later. However, the issue does just vanish until the end of the game, when Matthew points it out after the credits roll. Sorta like an "Oh shit, forgot about those". Final Impression: Early portion is the weakest, especially when compared to the other games. The voids were the only really interesting part, along with Isaac and Garret. Only issue of severity was Tyrell being a moron, and everything else was immemorable. It sucks to live in Vale. Everything bad happens to it. Passaj/Kaocho/Ayuthay, and the Detour we were forced to take to it. This starts us immediately with our villains, Blados/Chalis/Not Alex and the Tuaparang. One has to wonder where the hell these guys were hiding this entire time, aside from Alex who we can guess was just out and about. They're the only guys with airships, and seem technologically far more advanced than the rest of the world. It's kinda weird how they just spring out of nowhere, but it also adds to their mysteriousness. How did they come about these alchemic machines? How is it they can power them? Where have they hid these machines for all this time? Where have THEY been this whole time? How are they far more advanced than us? Perhaps that's for the sequel, but as for Blados and Chalis? These guys beat out Saturos and Minardi by a mile, despite seeming like rip-offs of them. Perhaps it was more of their use of Alex's cunning, or that Alex was just more willing to work for them (He certainly had no qualms about leaving Saturos and Minardi to die, despite them only being halfway through their mission). They don't have to lift a finger while you do their work for them, and outsmarting you into doing it the whole way. The only real part of their plan that failed was killing you, and unlike most villains who just plain underestimate the hero and don't kill them early while they have the chance, they had a reason for having you do it. That, and for the most part they couldn't lose with Alex helping them out. It's only when they are absorbed by Volecheck that they truly failed at something, and it was more out of surprise than ineptitude. They simply wouldn't have thought or known that Volecheck could have done that. Saturos and Minardi only succeeded in getting a head start with the clever ruse of "hold friends hostage and then accidentally lose them eventually", and getting their ass kicked every time you caught up, one being just an entirely horrendous fuck-up (Durr, the godly light of the water tower drains my fire energy? It's alright. Even though there are three of us, I'll fight you one on...four). That, and Blados/Chalis had more personalities. Saturos and Minardi were all mwahahaha and fufufufu, Blados and Chalis were soldiers of an empire with one being a boorish impatient bastard and the other being an intelligent if somewhat of a joker (offering to take our place to "shut the apollo lens off" after we just kicked your ass in order to keep you from touching it. Talk about taking light of a big situation). Blados and Chalis are "charming" in a good way. The Kaocho at war issue was pretty well executed, in Passaj fearing we may be envoys for them, being outsmarted to help invade Ayuthay, then cleverly turning the tides. It was also nice to see how distinctly different these 3 nations were to one another, despite neighboring one another. Each place clearly pops out at you, and are distinct of one another. Fun place to be around, and a good part of the story. The tale of the Sand Prince and Ice Queen were also a very interesting bit of sidestory. Not much is said about it, but you do know that the small amount you hear must have held so much more bearing way back when. Only weird thing was seeing that monk there with the Ice Queen. Could have sworn he was dead. The kings of the two nations were vastly different in personality, but none of them really jumped out. Even the king of Ayuthay, who is the uncle of an important character. Final Impressions: Certainly a good part of the story, but outside of hte Forge and Well, it almost seems irrelevent to the main story at hand. It's an interesting bit of the story nonetheless. Maybe it will have more bearing in the sequel. Maybe it won't. The Morgal Portion This is where the game is most notable. You hear about Morgal all game, and how it's this power hungry nation that had gained it's independence through bloody battle with the nation of Bilibin, a nation that you remember used to be a town of rich folk. While you never see this powerful military, you can assume it's in Bilibin to make sure Bilibin knows what's up, and you can see the nation for how much more modern it seemed than the places you had just been to, and filled with the beastmen it had claimed to be full of. It feels as prosperous as it sounds, though the whole furries existing thing was weird. At least that was explained with an explanation I can live with, that being "Golden Sun's power sped the rate of which things evolved", though that has to come with the idea of "what about humans evolving?", I can live with it. Zan and Ryu are interesting characters, and meeting them after you cross the skies to their snowy mountain outpostbrought up a lot of curiosity. Ryu comes off almost immediately as a dick while Zan is the kind elder that seems to be almost too nice to you in comparison. But they had their reason to keep secrets and then suddenly force you down a path you didn't want to go, that being to get Ryu's sister Hou Ju out of prison when she didn't deserve to be there. As the game goes on, you see Ryu matures through his anger and desperation, and it comes to a head when Zan dies at the Iceburg Outpost. You feel genuinely sorry for their situation, and you can find yourself forgiving Ryu for being a dick at the start. The minstrils I wish were not important to the game. They talk to you, but are not interesting in the least and just come off as corny. They play good music, but I wish I didn't have to see the scene of them making their instruments float as they play. That just made me cringe. They already looked like a chucky cheese animatronics band, they didn't need to do that. It was like watching a puppet show, you know you shouldn't be there and don't want to be. They alone nearly ruined Belinsk for me. Aside form them, Belinsk is awesome. They are hardcore in wanting to boil people alive for committing crimes, and the people even look forward to executions like it were entertainment. Belinsk don't fuck around. Speaking of crime and capital punishments, the pirates brought on a sense of nationalism to Champa that didn't seem to exist before, in that Champa did indeed seem as a nation as of now, but it seems like a weak nation trying to pick on the biggest guy in the room for roughing up their son. I understand the situation and why Briggs would be pissed, but you couldn't have possibly thought that was gonna work, dude. It was also the point I mentioned about how Amiti is so...Spiteful of pirates, that it clearly reflects his royal upbringing. It's funny to watch him talk shit about pirates to their face. I know they're criminals and I'm not exactly sympathetic to Briggs at all, but come on Amiti. Have some diplomacy skills here. I think opinions tend to change when you see Briggs die and realize the gravity of the situation, and it becomes sympathetic when you have to tell Baobaba that she has outlived her grandson. That's some seriously heavy material. Kolima. It was nice to be back, and even to meet with Laura and Tret again. It was kinda funny to see how awkward Tret is. But they're reletively minor, asKolima itself seemed to be more the focus. Once again, Kolima is in trouble because they apparently pissed off some ghost salamander, of which you have to kill in a rather unique dungeon that is spawned by the ghost lizard into your nightmares. That whole portion was just creepy, but it makes you feel all the better that you dispelled it, one of the times you feel like a "Just like the good ol' days" kind of hero. I'd rather not talk about Border Town. That gets depressing after you use the Dream Leaf. But it does make me a bit antsy to visit Bilibin, and see how it is in the present. The Eclipse Tower is fucking metal, from the dungeon you take to get there (ok, it was easy and straightforward, but the music for it was awesome), to it's activation and the effects it has on the world. You are basically strong-armed into activating it without realizing just what the fuck it is (You were vaguely warned, that's it), and it's activation is awesome. Some ghostly blue face tells you as if a robotic voice that the tower is activatingand that all personel evacuate (making the past seem more strange for having an automated voice like that). The thing shakes as if something cataclysmic is about to happen (of which is exactly the case), but you go up to teh top of the tower to finda stange light that upon looking at it feels like the tower is no longer shaking. It's like a lighthouse for the powers of hell, and upon gazing into it's light you hear a voice that tells you of it's great power, but presents itself in a way that makes you distrust it as it lends you it's power. Then the eclipse it causes happens, and all hell breaks loose. Belinsk just dies like a zombie apocalypse just happened, the opera house slaughter, the chandelier comes to life to be a dragon, a freaking blizzard hits despite it being summer, things just go to up is now down sort of situation. You barely escape with your life and a ship, having to survive storm and bury someone at sea, finding yourself stranded near some remote village in hte ocean. Not only does all that happen, it was you who caused it. Sure you were strong-armed, but that just makes you feel powerless to having caused it. I don't know what would suck worse, activating something on ignorant accident, or knowing it's going to suck but had no choice in the matter. The Eclipse I found awesome, despite how cheesy the monsters it spawns and the battle music it plays are. They were also a bit tougher to kill quickly, and Skorpna were distinct in their ability Drag Down where they drag you down into darkness and can cause instant death with it. I just wish it didn't just use dark or blackened things all the time, throwing in some more "crazed" stuff, like those giant wtf minotaurs you find on the Apollo Ascent. It was also during this time you fought a distinct amount of undead to before the Eclipse, and even when compared to the older games where undead were more in numbers. I touched on Svetka a bit before, but not on Volecheck. Volecheck confused me. We were lead he was a power-hungry king who wanted Bilibin DEAD under his...paw? But when you meet him, he seems...Goodly. It was shocking, but perhaps that's what made him so deceptive. It seems he truly was power hungry, considering it was he who was tricked into wanting the power of the Eclipse Tower. He was a king who was proud of his country, and even said he would die with it, and a brother who loved his siter (in the normal way, not the Jugdral way) who wanted her to escape to safety. Yet, he doesn't. He tries to save himself by giving in to hte Eclipse's power, too afraid to die. He seems so...contrarian. The only thing that doesn't seem contrary to himself is the concern of his sister, of which at the last moments allowed him to finally sacrifice himself to stop the tower in place of his sister. Nation's not worth dying for, but her sister is. Either that is some deep regret for his cowardice, a serious love of family, or a combination of both. Regardless, talk about a guy who redeems himself. Final Thoughts: Belinsk was awesome, the Eclipse Tower was awesome...But fuck the minstrels. The Last Portions Last portions of the game is less about hte problem of nations, and more just how much the Eclipse sucks. Champa's on fire, Ayuthay and Kaocho are just dead (now thinking about it, why did I not check up on those other two countries while I was visiting Passaj?), Passaj is barely able to say it's safe, Zan dies in the middle of nowhere after the storms tossed their boat, and everything's going to hell in a handbasket. It's a short portion of the game, but it hangs with you. Yamata had...Little impact on me. The Apollo Ascent and Sanctum had me wondering what exactly happened back in the past, which is always good for a game to make me curious. It also made me wonder just what was the extent of their studies upon dark and light, and taking it into adaptation (There couldn't be Dark Adepts if they took nothing from it, so I know that much about Tuaparang). It also made me wonder about the sequel, since now we know that there are Dark Adepts, and we see the rebirth of Belinsk into giving hte gift of Light upon it's people. Will this embolden Belinsk with the problem of Bilibin? Just cause they were given hte powers of light does not necessarily mean they have become enlightened. They might in fact turn to abuse this power. What of Dark Adepts? What of Tuaparang? Tuaparang so far has not engaged in anythign directly aside from us. We know they have a military force, but again they have only dealt with us, and not engaged another nation. Other nations don't even seem to know of their existence aside form maybe Passaj. It gets me hyped for the sequel. Final Impressions: It's a pretty heavy portion of the game, despite there being actually quite little of it left in the last portions. It's gonna be funny if you get Light and Dark adepts in the next game. Pretty much guarantees a playable furry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Deadly Sins Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 (edited) Just throwing this out there... Himi, you're STUNNING them? Why aren't you just KILLING them? Curse Master!Himi is far inferior to War Adept!Himi simply because WA!Himi "adds more to the team". Same with Paladin!Himi. Sure, Himi has Curse Master going for it, but Poison Grit (and later Dire Inferno) is ridiculously fucking expensive, and Himi is going to be out of PP bloody fast. With War Adept, Himi adds Impact to the team, improving your 3 other characters (likely Matthew / Sveta / Tyrell), and can either attack outright with Masamune or hit stuff with the Gaia series, which is *awesome*. Paladin, however, makes Himi a stupidly durable healer with the benefit of an actually existant amount of PP, something that your other potential Dragoons are kinda lacking. In both cases, +50% Attack multiplier means that she isn't too terrible at actually taking advantage of the HI buffs that you should be flinging. Wizard!Sveta is probably the best bet. The high speed allows you to get off a Beastform fast if you want, and on top of that, you can use her as an off-caster and buffer early on in a fight. Gladiator is also pretty neat as well, as she gets Revive, and can come in to revive people when she's recovering her Djinn for Beastform. As for Rief vs. Amiti, Mercury adepts always get the short end of the stick. Generally, they're frail and uninteresting, as casters are almost always LESS useful than physical attackers due to the generally low influence of elements on damage and the silly damage formulas (they don't scale very well). Early on, they're not bad as healers, and actually, Karis in base class gets the Gust series, which lets her groupheal similar to Jenna's Aura series, but really, neither Rief nor Amiti is super usable. Amiti does have the benefit of being able to use Bows, which gives him a significant buff to is damage output when you consider silly stuff like the Yew Bow, which is actually the strongest weapon you get for a good long while. I'd put Karis over either of them, though, simply because she makes the best use of all the early Mercury Djinn that you get with the Sage class series (best class y/y). Also, early Slash series is actually really good. Honestly, though, you don't want to use any of them in the long term. If I had to rank them, it'd basically be like this: Awesome Tier: Sveta Tyrell (yes sveta is above tyrell simply because of her absolute dominance once she shows up) Legit Tier: Matthew Himi Eoleo (yes himi is below matthew simply because she shows up so fucking late, but once she shows up she contributes bigtime) Mediocre Tier: Amiti Karis (bows= awesome all game long, and these two get to use them, also midgame amiti has cavalier which is really awesome) "Hey, could you carry this for me?" Tier: Rief Seriously, fuck Rief. He shows up, can't equip shit, and doesn't have nearly as many useful options as the rest. Edited December 16, 2010 by Seven Deadly Sins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Quickly to GJ: Not going to comment on above simply because we'll end up getting nowhere. Back and forth arguments are never fun for me. I'm on my second run (looking for the damn tornado to Otka to get Catastrophe as we speak) and I just want to comment on equipment set-up for the team. This is a set-up that I think it fair. Matthew: Titans Blade -> Sol Blade is nuts. No doubt about it. Mythril Clothes can be forged from Mythril Silver ASAP (the one from Teppe Ruins assuming that you went back after getting Crush), Cosmos Shield is from Orihalcon (very acceptable substitute since it's +20 Resist in every element on top of 35 Def) and the Warrior's Helm was found a lot time ago (+10 Earth Power adds to Meggido). He's also got the Lord Sun's Ring and Hover Greave (forged from Quality Zol). Stella: Umbra. That is all. Seriously, with all the equips, she gets +40 Resist in every element. That's sick. Crown: Clotho's Distaff can be found as soon as you get the ship (it's on Star Magician's ship but you don't have to beat him for the wand). It's fucking 168 Attack with Berserk Rush, Life Leech and Psynergy Leech. Not that it really matters (he shouldn't be using physical attacks anyway) but just in case. I gave him the short stick with regard to equipment and he's still nuts (Muni Robe can be bought, Prophet's Hat is found in the Ouroboros and Air Bangle is from Quality Zol). Gave him the Zol Ring though so I guess it cancels out. Karis: Zephyr's Bow can be snagged in Apollo Sanctum (check a statue in Earth Ring Room) while the rest of the stuff is found during the game (Storm Gear is in Belinsk, Jester's Armlet is in the Burning Island Cave and the Jeweled Crown is bought). Before the Zephyr's Bow, she had the Dragon Bow, just for trivia. Harmony: I favoured his ass with equips before you say anything. Phaeton's Blade is a hand-me-down from Tyrell/Eoleo/Matthew but it's still stronger than the Zephyr Bow. Aeolean Cossack has +15 Wind Power and +50 Wind Resist. Spirit Gloves can be found in Ayuthay after the Eclipse (imagine my shock when I used Mind Read on Paithos and found out about a treasure room under his throne) while the Mythril Circlet restores PP. Himi: I could write a million reasons for why she gets first crack at the Masamune but I think the fact that it gives her a usable Att value (something that she needs even as a Paladin or Curse Mage) sums it up. Heirloom Ring is THE treasure from Ayuthay (+30 Water Power and +40 Water Resist) and that combined with the Spirit Armlet (+10 Water Power) lets Paladin!Himi heal up around 230 damage with Wish Well (note that Wish Well is supposed to heal up 160). This combo along with the Mysterious Robe and a hat that restores PP (I have Lucky Cap but Mythril Circlet is even better) works on any healer by making Wish Well free of charge (restores 13 PP every turn, exactly what Wish Well costs). Eoleo: Not going to lie, I did favour him on this run but it turned out very nice. Verdant Sword is a must forge from Quality Zol, Dragon Mail is in the Watch Tower while filler equips (War Gloves, Viking Helm, Knight's Greave) just add to the sweetness. Tyrell: One thing to note is that Mythril Silver is a LOT easier to get a hold of instead of Orihalcon (Cosmos Shield is just as good as Excalibur or Herculean Axe). The Levantine is a Long Sword with sick stuff like Centurion and Radiant Fire (both present on the Sol Blade, mind you) that Tyrell quite likes. Valkarie Mail (Apollo Ascent) and Aegis Shield (Watchtower) up his critical hits while the Minerva Helm (Iceberg Outpost), Silver Greave and Lady Moon's Ring add Resist, Luck and PP to a tank. Those are my items in a nutshell. Some of it is favoritism (Eoleo and Himi specifically) but stuff like the Phaeton's Blade on Harmony isn't because denying a stronger warrior of a better weapon doesn't make me happy (unless I find another 2 pieces of Quality Zol so that Harmony can get his own Verdant Sword). Curse Master!Himi is far inferior to War Adept!Himi simply because WA!Himi "adds more to the team". Same with Paladin!Himi. Sure, Himi has Curse Master going for it, but Poison Grit (and later Dire Inferno) is ridiculously fucking expensive, and Himi is going to be out of PP bloody fast. With War Adept, Himi adds Impact to the team, improving your 3 other characters (likely Matthew / Sveta / Tyrell), and can either attack outright with Masamune or hit stuff with the Gaia series, which is *awesome*. Paladin, however, makes Himi a stupidly durable healer with the benefit of an actually existant amount of PP, something that your other potential Dragoons are kinda lacking. In both cases, +50% Attack multiplier means that she isn't too terrible at actually taking advantage of the HI buffs that you should be flinging. May I present the Mysterious Robe/Mythril Circlet combo to you? Recover back 13 PP every turn. Toss in the Heirloom Ring and Spirit Armlet for +40 Water Power (143 Water Power total) and fuck, that's a good durable healer. If I had to rank them, it'd basically be like this:Awesome Tier: Sveta Tyrell (yes sveta is above tyrell simply because of her absolute dominance once she shows up) I'm having problems seeing Stella > Tyrell because of a single battle that comes to mind (what I've fought so far) which illustrates her problem perfectly. That would be the Ogre Titan x5 battle. I started Stella off in Beastmode during that fight and she ended up transforming twice and sitting out twice (while her Djinn healed). That's half the fight that she missed because of transformation issues. At the same time, I had Tyrell fighting the entire battle and doing 3/4 of her damage... but never needing to be switched out. Let's do the math. Assuming that the last Ogre Titan died when Stella's last Djinni recovered (sometime around then), that's 40 turns (Turn 1 Beastmode, 2-10 Attack). Stella = +4 for 18 rounds and +0 for 22 rounds. Tyrell = +3 for 40 rounds. 4*18 = 72 3*40 = 120 Anyone else see the problem here? Now forget Tyrell (I did have to sling him Psynergy Stars to keep up the damage but fuck it, I have over 100k right now) and let's take Eoleo who maybe did 3/5 of Stella's damage. 5*18 = 90 3*40 = 120 This is what I mean about Stella not being able to deal consistent damage. Unless you like playing with a weakened Stella when Ogre Titan 5 has 2 attacks a turn and does ~300 with Brute Force, she's sitting out for a good part of the battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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