Drafting Tournaments Explained

[Integrity]

It's an old rule (I think?) and I'm really not experienced in FE7 drafting.

[HongLei]

To change the subject from FE10 for a moment, what's the reasoning for allowing Matthew to open chests? Shouldn't that be limited to only obtaining necessary promotion items?

I think it is just to keep the status quo, Life had it in the first draft.

[HongLei]

I finished PoR draft tourney 1. 188 turn clear

Edit sorry for the double post, I didn't realize I was the last to post in this earlier

Edited July 17, 2011 by HongLei

[Integrity]

Logged. Cheers.

[Radiant Dragon]

An interesting idea I just thought of: How about allowing one undrafted, non-Lucia unit free for 2-2?

[Psych]

Part 2 in general needs a look over. There's very few characters and most have only 2 or fewer chapters.

Except Brom and Neph who get three, and Heather who's 2 and a half count more like 1 and a half.

[Radiant Dragon]

Part 2 in general needs a look over. There's very few characters and most have only 2 or fewer chapters.

Except Brom and Neph who get three, and Heather who's 2 and a half count more like 1 and a half.

...And? How do you propose we give people more Part 2 Chapters?

[Psych]

No, I'm suggesting you rehaul those penalties and the free units there.

Because otherwise it becomes a Free Unit only run almost.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Psykitty

[Radiant Dragon]

No, I'm suggesting you rehaul those penalties and the free units there.

Because otherwise it becomes a Free Unit only run almost.

The problem with making lots of units free is that it reduces their value as drafted units.

[Psych]

Reduction from almost none isn't that much of a reduction.

I don't know a single CRK that could go before round 4 except maybe Geoffry, Elincia, or Leanne.

[Radiant Dragon]

Reduction from almost none isn't that much of a reduction.

I don't know a single CRK that could go before round 4 except maybe Geoffry, Elincia, or Leanne.

Example: Elincia, Lucia and Geoffrey are good mid-round picks if they're not free. If they're free in Part 2, they're suddenly last round picks (maybe not Elincia). Why draft Lucia or Geoffrey if they only have value in Part 4?

Unless you're trying to say this is a good thing?

Edited July 17, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[Florete]

You could simplify it and make everyone free for all of part 2 (and potentially 3-9). Reduces value of draftees, sure, but that's just part 2.

[Florete]

I completed the Radiant Dawn Mega Awesome NM Draft (The ninth one) in 242 turns.

[Janissary]

I'm not sure what form you want it in, but I finished this draft in 183 turns.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Generally, the less free units, the better. Similarly, the higher the average value of a drafted unit, the better. In my opinion, Part 2 and like places should have no free units. Of course, the exception to this is when a unit's value gets skewed and imbalances the draft.

[Junkhead]

Reduction from almost none isn't that much of a reduction.

I don't know a single CRK that could go before round 4 except maybe Geoffry, Elincia, or Leanne.

Elincia isn't a CRK.

[Integrity]

I'm not sure what form you want it in, but I finished this draft in 183 turns.

I didn't even have that one in the backlog. Thanks.

[Radiant Dragon]

Generally, the less free units, the better. Similarly, the higher the average value of a drafted unit, the better. In my opinion, Part 2 and like places should have no free units. Of course, the exception to this is when a unit's value gets skewed and imbalances the draft.

My reasoning (I can't speak for others) is that there's no need to take penalties for a unit everyone is going to have to use anyway. Edward in 1-P? Brom and Nephenee in 2-1? Whether or not you drafted these units, you're still going to use them because you're practically required to.

However, it's true that we need to avoid greatly diminishing the value of the draftable units, which is why Lucia is no longer free for 2-2, and Elincia isn't free for 2-E. I am a little concerned about Gatrie's value though, due to the fact that (essentially) he's free to all who don't draft him for 3-1 and 3-3, since he is the best choice for the free unit in those chapters.

The point is not to allow people to make it through Part 2 without any drafted units, but rather simply to make it so not everyone is punished for not being the one to draft Edward, or Nephenee/Brom, etc.

[Janissary]

I didn't even have that one in the backlog. Thanks.

We only finished drafting 2 days ago. I guess no one reported it.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

My reasoning (I can't speak for others) is that there's no need to take penalties for a unit everyone is going to have to use anyway. Edward in 1-P? Brom and Nephenee in 2-1? Whether or not you drafted these units, you're still going to use them because you're practically required to.

However, it's true that we need to avoid greatly diminishing the value of the draftable units, which is why Lucia is no longer free for 2-2, and Elincia isn't free for 2-E. I am a little concerned about Gatrie's value though, due to the fact that (essentially) he's free to all who don't draft him for 3-1 and 3-3, since he is the best choice for the free unit in those chapters.

The point is not to allow people to make it through Part 2 without any drafted units, but rather simply to make it so not everyone is punished for not being the one to draft Edward, or Nephenee/Brom, etc.

I really don't see what the problem with the taking a penalty is. Why is this bad? The people "punished" by not picking Geoffrey/Lucia/whoever knew full well what they lost by passing them up, and have their own individual pick to remedy that, which they value higher. All keeping the penalties there does is raise the value of units, and due to the nature of a draft, this auto balances.

Hypothetically, if we were to do something like give the person who picked Oliver a free -15 off their final turncount, other people would not be hurt by this, all that would happen would be that Oliver would shoot up the mock draft boards. Actually, this might be a fun idea to implement to avoid dead picks.

Granted, something like Edward in 1-P I would not object that much since it may skew his value and imbalance the draft.

Also, why do people want/are Herons/dancers free?

[Radiant Dragon]

I really don't see what the problem with the taking a penalty is. Why is this bad? The people "punished" by not picking Geoffrey/Lucia/whoever knew full well what they lost by passing them up, and have their own individual pick to remedy that, which they value higher. All keeping the penalties there does is raise the value of units, and due to the nature of a draft, this auto balances.

This is a good point, but it's not so simple in practice. Edward and Nolan are two of the three best DB picks. And then you factor in that the people who don't get them have to take arbitrary penalties just for not having them. Also, most people who don't have Titania are forced to take a penalty to clear 3-1 as well. The people who draft first shouldn't have a clear advantage due to taking less penalties.

Part 2 is harder to justify, but it's not like Brom/Nephenee/Lethe/Mordecai aren't good units in drafts.

Hypothetically, if we were to do something like give the person who picked Oliver a free -15 off their final turncount, other people would not be hurt by this, all that would happen would be that Oliver would shoot up the mock draft boards. Actually, this might be a fun idea to implement to avoid dead picks.

Perhaps. Making all units equal isn't necessary at all though, and I would go so far as to say it wouldn't even be a good thing.

Also, why do people want/are Herons/dancers free?

I needed to even out the units after taking Haar, the Black Knight and Lehran out of the drafting pool, and they were the obvious choices. Although a 6 person draft with Ike, Micaiah, Sothe, Geoffrey, Black Knight and Lehran free makes it even so that each player gets 11 units with Herons draftable.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

This is a good point, but it's not so simple in practice. Edward and Nolan are two of the three best DB picks. And then you factor in that the people who don't get them have to take arbitrary penalties just for not having them. Also, most people who don't have Titania are forced to take a penalty to clear 3-1 as well. The people who draft first shouldn't have a clear advantage due to taking less penalties.

I'm okay with this part.

Part 2 is harder to justify, but it's not like Brom/Nephenee/Lethe/Mordecai aren't good units in drafts.

But not this part. You're essentially removing the point of Part 2 and also stacking GMs who can all approximately do the same job, which devalues them overall.

Perhaps. Making all units equal isn't necessary at all though, and I would go so far as to say it wouldn't even be a good thing.

Why?

I needed to even out the units after taking Haar, the Black Knight and Lehran out of the drafting pool, and they were the obvious choices. Although a 6 person draft with Ike, Micaiah, Sothe, Geoffrey, Black Knight and Lehran free makes it even so that each player gets 11 units with Herons draftable.

You could try padding it out by inventing picks, like "10 turns off" or "undrafted units can shove" or something.

[Florete]

I really don't see what the problem with the taking a penalty is. Why is this bad? The people "punished" by not picking Geoffrey/Lucia/whoever knew full well what they lost by passing them up, and have their own individual pick to remedy that, which they value higher. All keeping the penalties there does is raise the value of units, and due to the nature of a draft, this auto balances.

I don't agree with this. I feel penalties should be the result of either poor drafting or a low skill level, not because there aren't enough units to go around. Drafting units solely to remove penalties (which is practically the only value Geoffrey has and is most of what Lucia has) defeats the purpose of drafting in my opinion.

Perhaps. Making all units equal isn't necessary at all though, and I would go so far as to say it wouldn't even be a good thing.

Definitely not. All units being equal would be boring. There generally isn't a clear worst unit either because it often depends on the drafter's team.

[Radiant Dragon]

You're essentially removing the point of Part 2 and also stacking GMs who can all approximately do the same job, which devalues them overall.

I see what you mean about Part 2, but I'm not 100% sure what you mean about Part 3, so I'd like that clarified before continuing.

Why?

Due to the way RD is split into Parts, a less than average draftee like Meg can be a better pick than Gatrie for example, depending on who they've drafted. I simply don't see the need to make them 'equal' to each other. Units like Oliver and Kurthnaga are a different story, but these are usually the last last round picks, drafted by those who also got first choice of the first round picks, so I don't think special provisions need to be made for them (unless the unit is literally unusable, like Karla or Geitz).

You could try padding it out by inventing picks, like "10 turns off" or "undrafted units can shove" or something.

Making the Herons free just seemed like the better idea.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I don't agree with this. I feel penalties should be the result of either poor drafting or a low skill level, not because there aren't enough units to go around. Drafting units solely to remove penalties (which is practically the only value Geoffrey has and is most of what Lucia has) defeats the purpose of drafting in my opinion.

If there's going to be a fundamental difference of preference, then I'll have to give it to majority. I personally think a character's full use should only be reserved for whoever drafted them.

Definitely not. All units being equal would be boring. There generally isn't a clear worst unit either because it often depends on the drafter's team.

I don't know why you've jumped to all units equal. Even if someone attempted to equalize all units, everyone's unique perception would make for an interesting draft.

I see what you mean about Part 2, but I'm not 100% sure what you mean about Part 3, so I'd like that clarified before continuing.

It's more an effect of more other free units, but when in the list of picks you're eventually getting four or five GMs, the fourth/fifth string GM barely has an impact in Part 3.

Due to the way RD is split into Parts, a less than average draftee like Meg can be a better pick than Gatrie for example, depending on who they've drafted. I simply don't see the need to make them 'equal' to each other. Units like Oliver and Kurthnaga are a different story, but these are usually the last last round picks, drafted by those who also got first choice of the first round picks, so I don't think special provisions need to be made for them (unless the unit is literally unusable, like Karla or Geitz).

Again, what is this about making things "equal?" The point is to change the value of the picks (it could be any picks, really) to alter how people view each unit and result in a more interesting draft.

Making the Herons free just seemed like the better idea.

Did you even consider it in the first place?

Edited July 20, 2011 by WeaponsofMassConstruction