Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I've never done an FE8 draft, but if I may throw in my opinion, I'd sooner say Tethys should be free because Dancer units are free in most other games. Consistency and all. I also just tend to find utility units like that better free in general. Well, dancers aren't really consistently free except for FE6. They're becoming free in FE7 (which should replace Ninian with Serra for HHM drafts, in my opinion) and FE10 to make the available unit lists equal, and that's all. They're drafted in all other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Well, dancers aren't really consistently free except for FE6. They're becoming free in FE7 (which should replace Ninian with Serra for HHM drafts, in my opinion) and FE10 to make the available unit lists equal, and that's all. They're drafted in all other games. That's still 3 games that they are at least likely to stay free in and this is a candidate for a 4th. The thing with Dancers is that they generally don't devalue other unit types (Serra devalues Priscilla/Pent, for example) because of their unique abilities, and then the fact that they are so unique could be another reason why they are generally chosen as the free units to even out drafting in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27516 There's the draft topic. Integ got randomized into first so go ahead and take Vanessa if you are interested in playing. Myrrh is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 That's still 3 games that they are at least likely to stay free in and this is a candidate for a 4th. The thing with Dancers is that they generally don't devalue other unit types (Serra devalues Priscilla/Pent, for example) because of their unique abilities, and then the fact that they are so unique could be another reason why they are generally chosen as the free units to even out drafting in the first place. I think there may be a better solution for FE10 drafts, since making Geoffrey free greatly devalues the rest of the CRK. I also believe that letting everyone beat Cog of Destiny is more important than not slightly devaluing two of the best picks in FE7 (although I'll admit Priscilla is hurt much more than Pent is). While their uniqueness makes them good for evening out drafting, that doesn't mean they're aren't better options. Tethys can prove to be a good pick, while Myrrh isn't providing you much of anything other than insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Well, to be fair, a slightly leveled Myrrh is probably the best tank the game against normal enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I think there may be a better solution for FE10 drafts, since making Geoffrey free greatly devalues the rest of the CRK. I actually disagree with that, which is why I left him free in the current draft. Unless you draft, like, all of them, you will likely need to use him regardless in 2-3. 3-9 is a different case, but that's a single map, and people will probably still draft the CRKs more for part 4 help than for the two CRK maps, Marcia and Calill in particular (they are also arguably the two units who would be most worth drafting for 3-9). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I actually disagree with that, which is why I left him free in the current draft. Unless you draft, like, all of them, you will likely need to use him regardless in 2-3. 3-9 is a different case, but that's a single map, and people will probably still draft the CRKs more for part 4 help than for the two CRK maps, Marcia and Calill in particular (they are also arguably the two units who would be most worth drafting for 3-9). Hmm... I suppose that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 What the hell is this shit about Franz being banned. I call BS on general banning on units who aren't Seth and Sirius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Give us a reason why the person who goes first in an FE8 or FE10 draft deserves to win every time. Go on, I'm listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Haar or Franz aren't auto-win. The person drafting Haar usually has to face troubles with a mediocre Part 1 (Even though it's being tested at the moment). Franz being banned is just absurd. It's not like he's a 1RKO'ing machine that gets full of advantage of great move everywhere he goes, Vanessa is probably better due to Rescue-Drop shenaningans. I never really had trouble against people who drafted those "auto-win" units. And I'm sure a few others would agree. Sometimes their potential is overstimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 The person drafting Haar usually has to face troubles with a mediocre Part 1 (Even though it's being tested at the moment). No, they don't. For the last time, Edward/Nolan/Volug/Zihark/Jill are not necessary to get great turncounts in Part 1. Part 3 is where turns make the most impact because it's longer and Ike doesn't dominate as much as Sothe does. Franz being banned is just absurd. It's not like he's a 1RKO'ing machine that gets full of advantage of great move everywhere he goes Umm... Yeah, he is. Vanessa is probably better due to Rescue-Drop shenaningans. Vanessa is certainly a great pick, which is why I believe either Seth or Franz should be free until Chapter 9, instead of being banned outright. I never really had trouble against people who drafted those "auto-win" units. And I'm sure a few others would agree. Sometimes their potential is overstimated. That's because a lot of them never finish and/or are mediocre drafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Actually, after about chapter 8 or 9, Franz is virtually an ohko on every non-boss enemy in chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Also, if you draft Franz first, you have a good high movement combat unit. If you take Vanessa first, you lose out on a good combat unit for the first 8 chapters, as Garcia should be gone, and probably Joshua as well, given how clutch they can be in the early chapters where you get thrown units like Neimi, Colm, Ross, and to a lesser extent Lute who will be useless for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Enemies in FE8 are jokes. Eirika should be able to consistently ORKO most things pretty soon, Colm and Artur aren't slouches after a few levels, and Garcia usually isn't a second round pick in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Enemies in FE8 are jokes. Eirika should be able to consistently ORKO most things pretty soon, Colm and Artur aren't slouches after a few levels, and Garcia usually isn't a second round pick in my experience. They're than bad? It's true that I'm more used to just plowing through with Seth and Franz anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I haven't played FE8 in forever, but I remember that to be the case. I'd like someone more experienced with the game to confirm or deny my assumptions, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I haven't played FE8 in forever, but I remember that to be the case. I'd like someone more experienced with the game to confirm or deny my assumptions, though. The drafts themselves are pretty random, they have Garcia going anywhere from 3rd pick to 5th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) The drafts themselves are pretty random, they have Garcia going anywhere from 3rd pick to 5th round. True. I don't have much experience with FE8 drafting (it's not a game that should be played efficiently, in my opinion). In other news, the 'The "Does Haar Need to be Banned?" RD NM draft' (27436) has finished drafting. Radiant Kitty: Haar, Ilyana, Nailah, Meg, Lucia, Ranulf, Makalov, Volke, Kurthnaga. Red Fox of Fire: Nolan, Mia, Marcia, Brom, Lethe, Skrimir, Astrid, Giffca, Bastian. Ring Wraith: Edward, Gatrie, Elincia, Naesala, Soren, Kieran, Tormod, Stefan, Renning. Balcerzak: Jill, Boyd, Mordecai, Tibarn, Shinon, Caineghis, Muarim, Fiona, Ena. PegKnightLover: Volug, Nephenee, Calill, Janaff, Rolf, Nasir, Kyza, Tauroneo, Pelleas. Angru Mainya: Titania, Zihark, Tanith, Sigrun, Heather, Sanaki, Leonardo, Danved, Gareth. Queen Kittylincia: Aran, Oscar, Laura, Ulki, Rhys, Nealuchi, Mist, Vika, Lyre. Edited August 5, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) My problems with Franz are many. 1. The XP formula in this game allows him to level too quickly. While Vanessa is equally broken, she is balanced by the fact she has no access to Swords and must be strategically protected in the first 3-4 chpaters of her existance. Franz just rape stuff, and so he grows at the exhorbitant rate the XP formula allows. My Franz was gaining 30+ XP per kill at level 19 in Chapter 7. It's ridiculous. 2. He's the only Cavalier for 1/3 of the game. Cavaliers are the best class, and he's the only one for such a long period of time. 3. He trivializes late game. My end game strategy with an average Franz was hand him Audahma, warp him, kill half the map, sieze. His stats, high movement, and the weak enemies of this game allow Franz to do whatever he wants to do endgame barring him being absurdly screwed. 4. He looks like a child and shouldn't be fighting (thrown in just for Banzai). 5. He does ~20x2 to the demon king. Combined with suicide Myrrh (~30), that's over half the Demon King in two attacks. After another random suicide for 20, tyou just use either Physic or Latona and rape the Demon King. Edited August 5, 2011 by Janissary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 On the Franz matter, I don't see any reason why he couldn't be free, at least for the first half of the game or so. It's not like the other games don't have a strong, free early game unit, and I doubt Franz is stronger than FE9!Titania or something. Banning a unit should really only be done when that unit is basically an auto win button AND trivializes large portions of the game (as I said, I think Titania is more banworthy than Franz in that regard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Janissary made his best point on the Franz Matter in the new FE8 draft: RK, making someone free untl Chapter 8 means that Integ gets to rescue drop Franz or Seth everywhere, which is why I mean by further overpowering Vanessa. Giving one of those two free means a virtually guranteed +6 or 7 for Integ on Chapter 7. Currently, Integ is going to have to get a blessed Eirika to do that. The point I agree with is NOT that Franz is auto-win, it's that Franz + Vanessa (which making him free/half-free would give player 1) IS very close to auto-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Uh, when that's only a major problem in one chapter, then ban Franz in that one chapter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Or, make Franz free up to Chapter 9 for those who don't have Vanessa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Or, make Franz free up to Chapter 9 for those who don't have Vanessa. This is just as stupid of an idea as your idea of letting Haar be free for all in FE10. Edited August 5, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janissary Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I don't think Franz is auto win, but I'm of the opinion that when I have no reason to pick someone other than Franz first, something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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