Pokemon Yellow Ratings

[dondon151]

Why does Magnemite get 9/10? Its coverage is horrendous and it's not particularly fast nor durable.

[Venusaur]

Why does Magnemite get 9/10? Its coverage is horrendous and it's not particularly fast nor durable.

...I actually don't know why, now that I think about it. Maybe it was because of STAB Thunderbolt off that Special. Electric does have few resistances and immunities, with only Ground and Grass being the main problems. It probably deserves an 8.5, or something like that.

[General Horace]

I think it deserves less actually.

It hits like a truck, but is pretty damn slow, and has no type coverage at all, and no movepool.

Like, Magneton is completely walled by a Graveler 25 levels lower than it.

[Mekkah]

Fighting sucks versus everything in RBY. It sucks vs Team Rockets (who use Poison types almost exclusively), it sucks vs things in Pokémon Tower, it sucks vs Sabrina, it sucks vs Koga, it is hit or miss against Giovanni, not particularly good against Gary, and it's not good vs Elite Four overall.

[Venusaur]

I think it deserves less actually.

It hits like a truck, but is pretty damn slow, and has no type coverage at all, and no movepool.

Like, Magneton is completely walled by a Graveler 25 levels lower than it.

True, but that's what the rest of the team's for. We're not leaving Golem in on Water types, for example. Its base Speed is actually only 6 points less than Nidoqueen, but it's still pretty slow, though thanks to stat experience it does outspeed more than you would think. Good type coverage is rare without TMs and not as important when you hit that hard in RBY, as seen with most Psychics. Magneton will probably go to an 8, along with Drowzee.

Fighting sucks versus everything in RBY. It sucks vs Team Rockets (who use Poison types almost exclusively), it sucks vs things in Pokémon Tower, it sucks vs Sabrina, it sucks vs Koga, it is hit or miss against Giovanni, not particularly good against Gary, and it's not good vs Elite Four overall.

Pokemon Tower I'll give to you, but Rockets aren't that common, thanks to the Game Corner being able to be skipped. The only times you have to deal with them in any semblance of large numbers are Mt. Moon (only Mankey has that problem, and it has Karate Chop), Pokemon Tower (A lost cause), and Silph Co. (which most of them can be skipped due to its layout) Rock Slide is available for Koga's mono-Bug team, and Fighting types have no business going against Sabrina. Fighting is only ineffective on the Nidos, and Machamp likely won't go to the E4, but it's only effective against Lorelei. I'm also surprised you didn't mention Erika, another loss for the Fighting-type.

[Venusaur]

Onix

A rock snake that deserves higher than base 45 Attack, it's at least more useful than Venonat. Sporting a 10% encounter rate, it's also not easy to find, but you'll likely run into one during the basement floor of Rock Tunnel. It has the highest base Defense in Generation I, but its HP and Special are so low it crumples up and dies to any special attack. If it's above Lv. 19, it starts with Rock Throw, which combos nicely with Onix's niche: Screech. Onix's only use is to Screech the enemies so that your other Pokemon can sweep them, as that 45 Attack doesn't help it much. It's obsoleted even before you get it, and even Voltorb gets Screech, so Onix should be left in Rock Tunnel to dig the rest of its days.

Onix: 3.5/10

[samthedigital]

3. This is not a solo, one Pokemon will not sweep the entire game, and levels are assumed to be reasonable.

Alright, so assuming that rule, you have some Pokemon that are too low and some that are too high.

Firstly, Nidoking should get a 10 while Nidoqueen gets 9.75 to separate the two. Nidoking's better base speed is immediately more useful along with his better attacking stats, and it has Horn Attack. Later on in the game the speed stat still matters, and Nidoking can outspeed more. Nidoqueen is better defensively, but it's not useful at all. Nidoking can die later on in the game, but X items fix the problem entirely (Nidoqueen can die too anyway).

This electric mouse is your first Pokemon, with the best availability in the game. Its offense is decent enough in the beginning, due to hitting Special rather than defense, frying common Pidgey and uncommon Spearow. Its frailty will prove a thorn in your side from the beginning, due to its low HP and Defense. Despite this it's your only Electric until Magnemite, so it has unique utility. Despite being near useless during Brock's Gym, Pikachu is quite good during Misty's Gym, being one of your most powerful attackers along with the ability to cripple with Thunder Wave.

The most efficient thing to do is to box Pikachu as soon as you catch other Pokemon because you avoid special animations, and Pikachu isn't even useful at killing off flying Pokemon. It's not efficient to even touch Pikachu until after you beat Brock because most of the exp resources are going to be used on the Pokemon needed to beat Brock. At that point Pikachu is probably not going to be higher than 8, but even then that requires training which is inefficient in the first place. In any case, Pikachu has a level growth that doesn't really favor it. It's going to level slowly for the first half of the game. Even if you give it all of your resources in exp (while fighting only required trainers) it still doesn't OHKO very often, and it has troubles even against Misty. It should get a 3 or a 4 I think.

Your first Fighting-type, and what a powerhouse! Low Kick is even more powerful than Nidoran M/F's (but not Nidoking/queen's) Double Kick, and it's learned at only Lv. 9! This makes it your best option against Brock.

It's not really the best option against Brock. Nidoran can be caught at level 6, so the level difference to get their move to beat Brock isn't that large, but Mankey takes more time babying. The best method for training Nidoran has him being fed exp from one single Pokemon, and other than that he's better than any other Pokemon for the forest, so "Levels 2-12 are the only bad points for these two" isn't true. Nidoran Male at least is better than any other Pokemon in the early game, so calling its levels 4 or 6 (the levels you can catch it at in the patch of grass right before the forest) a bad point is like saying there's a Pokemon that's actually better at it.

Against Misty, a high enough leveled Nidoking can cleanly 2HKO (IIRC) Starmie with Thrash and survives a Bubblebeam. It actually probably does as well as Pikachu in that respect.

It's roughly 50/50 for Nidoking with Thrash if it's the only Pokemon you trained, but if it's not then Nidoking has a little trouble beating them. Pikachu doesn't do much better though since it really is noticeable early on how much Nidoking's fading growth and being fully evolved helps it.

Lorelei's Jynx actually does not outspeed a Nidoking at around the same level. Jynx has 10 higher base Spe but also doesn't have any stat EXP. I'm not sure if its DVs are any good either.

Every enemy trainer Pokemon has no stat exp. and a 7DV in every stat except for Attack which is 8. I am not sure if X-Accuracy increases every stat by 9/8 by the way, but getting the badges that increase stats increases them by 9/8 invisibly, and using an item to boost stats increases them again by 9/8, so Nidoking has a larger buffer again to outspeed Jynx.

Third, you can use one Elixir to restore PP to both Horn Drill and Fissure if they're both on one Pokemon.

You can get a total of 4 Elixers that are more or less on route in the game, so PP (which is only an issue against the Elite 4) isn't really a problem if you give one Pokemon Fissure without giving it Horn Drill. Bruno is still worthless anyway. Vagabond didn't know where two of them are, but your point still stands regardless. The best way to take on the game now by the way in terms of speedrunning is to skip Fissure and instead only use Horn Drill as Nidoking has a lot of Elixers he can use.

Clefairy

This is likely the first Pokemon that gets docked a point simply because it's so hard to find. However, it is decently competent for the time when evolved immediately, thanks to there being a second Moon Stone in Mt. Moon. It's a decent enough Special attacker, with Clefable's 85 Special, but it takes valuable TMs to do so, and isn't very great with them due to its lack of STAB. And base 70 Attack does no favors for it on the STAB side either. Its main use is its immediate bulk, able to use some Special moves while taking a few hits for your weaker party members. However, even this use simply isn't worth searching for Clefairy, and it gets outclassed fairly quickly by other Pokemon, most notably Nidoking, who uses the TMs better.

Clefairy is one of the better Pokemon. Since you are required to use a team by your rules Nidoking isn't going to be getting many resources aside from spending money on it for X-Items (You get Horn Drill free in the hideout, and you have to go there if you aren't using glitches). This isn't really a problem or anything because Nidoking is great anyway, and he isn't getting them so he can help out the team rather than it not being fair to give them to him or anything, but Clefable should get Water Gun so it can help out against rocks at the very least. Going by your rules means mostly that when using Nidoking the other two Pokemon are tagging along to get exp while Nidoking is doing the bulk of the hard work, so Clefable is really worthwile to use since it can use a lot of TMs and nail super effective hits. STAB isn't really important when playing, but leveling up fast and getting super effective hits on important things is, and Clefairy does both.

Here's the first USEFUL Grass type in the game, and a very good one, to boot. It does take 3 levels to get Vine Whip, but this move is effective against the Water types in Misty's Gym, combining nicely with Leech Seed and a natural resistance to Water and Electric. For later usefulness there's also Sleep Powder and Razor Leaf, the latter being one of the, if not the best Grass-type attack in the game, due to its high crit rate. The choice between Oddish and Bulbasaur/Bellsprout is essentially Absorb and an earlier Sleep Powder (Oddish) versus a Grass-type heavy hitter who ends up being more powerful (Bulbasaur/Bellsprout). Both are very usable, so it's your choice on which one to use.

In Red and Blue Bulbasaur is the worst of the three starters for an 'efficient completion' of the game. In Yellow it's main problems are still there. It can't score quick KOs, can't hit for super effective damage very often, has to be babied to become even somewhat useful, and to hit anything resistant to grass it needs Body Slam. It gets Razor Leaf at level 30, but that's far too late, and while Razor Leaf is a good move it's not going to help Bulbasaur actually be useful. Plus it's not getting many boss kills mid game because it is poor against them.

Charmander, a popular choice among Red version users, is one of the few Pokemon in Yellow that doesn't have to be caught to be used, which is pretty convenient seeing as it's your first Fire-type right when Grass-types start making their appearances. Its joining level is a low 10, but thanks to auto-Ember and the prevalence of wild Oddish/Bellsprout this issue's effect is reduced quite nicely, but it still struggles against the Rock-types of Hikers, and Misty is a no-go thanks to that weakness.

You should probably mention that Charmander is a free HM slave which is its main utility.

Victreebel is essentially a slower version of Venusaur, with less defensive stats, but more Attack, which can be boosted with Swords Dance if you really want to give it TMs like Body Slam or Hyper Beam. Bulbasaur may end better, but Bellsprout is the one to go with if you prefer instant utility and a flexible evolution.

Bellsprout can be caught in hoards, so if you have nothing better you can spam Misty with Bellsprout. This is something that makes it better than Bulbasaur because early game utility is far more important than late game utility as there are a lot of great no resource Pokemon later on. Oddish can also do the same thing Bellsprout can early on.

As for gyms, it likely won't be evolved by Misty, but its best performances are in Erika and Koga's gyms anyways, it being practically the best choice for the former due to how Special works.

You can't get Abra in the same place as you could in Red and Blue. You have to wait until you get out of Cerulean City to catch it.

and if you can trade, it evolves into Alakazam

There should be a rule against trading because allowing trades to other games means that you can get any other Pokemon from trades too.

Lastly, I disagree with your first and 5th ruling. There is no benefit to going to the game corner, but it's a glitch to skip it, so I would ban it from being used. Banning glitches based on how game breaking they are is the same as banning Pokemon by how good they are. I am pretty sure they fixed the safari zone glitch anyway in Yellow. I don't know though, making a tier list assuming more Pokemon are used is fine and all, but it's hard to draw the line on how much you are allowed to use one Pokemon.

Edited June 20, 2011 by samthedigital

[dondon151]

It's not efficient to even touch Pikachu until after you beat Brock because most of the exp resources are going to be used on the Pokemon needed to beat Brock.

Not true. You need quite a bit of luck if you want a freshly caught Nidoran M to solo every trainer in Viridian Forest. You'll at least need to use Pikachu in a couple of battles to finish off opponents because its STAB Thundershock does more damage than unSTAB Horn Attack.

It's not really the best option against Brock. Nidoran can be caught at level 6, so the level difference to get their move to beat Brock isn't that large, but Mankey takes more time babying.

I don't think it's particularly wise to assume that all Nidoran M are level 6; IIRC those don't appear that often.

Every enemy trainer Pokemon has no stat exp. and a 7DV in every stat except for Attack which is 8. I am not sure if X-Accuracy increases every stat by 9/8 by the way, but getting the badges that increase stats increases them by 9/8 invisibly, and using an item to boost stats increases them again by 9/8, so Nidoking has a larger buffer again to outspeed Jynx.

I'm pretty sure badges do not increase stats at all, either tangibly or intangibly, despite what they say. But yes, if Jynx has no stat EXP, then Nidoking just needs to be at about an equal level to make up for the base spe difference.

The best way to take on the game now by the way in terms of speedrunning is to skip Fissure and instead only use Horn Drill as Nidoking has a lot of Elixers he can use.

You get Fissure as part of the plot line. The amount of time it costs to teach Fissure to Nidoking is probably 10 seconds.

[samthedigital]

Not true. You need quite a bit of luck if you want a freshly caught Nidoran M to solo every trainer in Viridian Forest. You'll at least need to use Pikachu in a couple of battles to finish off opponents because its STAB Thundershock does more damage than unSTAB Horn Attack.

The only luck you need is to catch a level 6 Nidoran. Outside of that you need to use Pikachu to weaken the first Nidoran F from the trainer to the left, let it die, then Nidoran can fight everything effectively. It's the strategy I use in single segment runs and in segmented ones, and it's very effective and reliable. Vagabond does not do this in his speedrun because he did not know about it. That's not to say that Nidoran should always be assumed to be used or whatever, but to fight Brock efficiently in Yellow there aren't that many options. If you don't get Mankey/Butterfree/NidoranM/F you need to have Pikachu at level 11 or something and use a lot of Tail Whips and Potions.

I don't think it's particularly wise to assume that all Nidoran M are level 6; IIRC those don't appear that often.

They appear about as often as a level 4 Nidoran, but the advantage in Nidoran is in the fact that at level 6 it is superior to other options, and it is even at level 4 with Mankey probably, but that means that Nidoran's advantage at level 6 breaks the tie.

I'm pretty sure badges do not increase stats at all, either tangibly or intangibly, despite what they say. But yes, if Jynx has no stat EXP, then Nidoking just needs to be at about an equal level to make up for the base spe difference.

I am quite positive the boost exists. Try fighting a Pokemon that you are slower than by a little bit with all badges and then pump X-Specials into the Pokemon. Eventually you will be faster than the Pokemon. I think my original post could be misleading though, 9/8 is a multiplier, so if Nidoking has 100 speed then his speed becomes 112 without any stat boosting items, but then after using x-special or whatever the stats are multiplied by 9/8 again.

You get Fissure as part of the plot line. The amount of time it costs to teach Fissure to Nidoking is probably 10 seconds.

You save time by not getting Fissure and skipping some text by having a full inventory beforehand. That and Nidoking gets Surf which means you don't need Lapras.

Edited June 23, 2011 by samthedigital

[Venusaur]

First off, this isn't absolute efficiency, so there is wiggle room, aka we won't have categories like "Used" and "Not Used". I'm only responding to some of the points due to the fact that I discovered your post at a bad time.

Firstly, Nidoking should get a 10 while Nidoqueen gets 9.75 to separate the two. Nidoking's better base speed is immediately more useful along with his better attacking stats, and it has Horn Attack. Later on in the game the speed stat still matters, and Nidoking can outspeed more. Nidoqueen is better defensively, but it's not useful at all. Nidoking can die later on in the game, but X items fix the problem entirely (Nidoqueen can die too anyway).

I'd agree with this, I'll move Queen down to 9.75.

The most efficient thing to do is to box Pikachu as soon as you catch other Pokemon because you avoid special animations, and Pikachu isn't even useful at killing off flying Pokemon. It's not efficient to even touch Pikachu until after you beat Brock because most of the exp resources are going to be used on the Pokemon needed to beat Brock. At that point Pikachu is probably not going to be higher than 8, but even then that requires training which is inefficient in the first place. In any case, Pikachu has a level growth that doesn't really favor it. It's going to level slowly for the first half of the game. Even if you give it all of your resources in exp (while fighting only required trainers) it still doesn't OHKO very often, and it has troubles even against Misty. It should get a 3 or a 4 I think.

Pika isn't too helpful past the first gym, but it also has that unique utility at the extreme beginning of being able to help with raising weaker Pokemon, and can be used in a pinch for a while, at least up to Cerulean. It also gets Thunder Wave, which helps with catching while it's around. Simply deposit it before any special animation if it irks you that badly, but it's not a major factor. Pika should probably be a bit lower, but not down to the 3 or 4 level.

It's not really the best option against Brock. Nidoran can be caught at level 6, so the level difference to get their move to beat Brock isn't that large, but Mankey takes more time babying. The best method for training Nidoran has him being fed exp from one single Pokemon, and other than that he's better than any other Pokemon for the forest, so "Levels 2-12 are the only bad points for these two" isn't true. Nidoran Male at least is better than any other Pokemon in the early game, so calling its levels 4 or 6 (the levels you can catch it at in the patch of grass right before the forest) a bad point is like saying there's a Pokemon that's actually better at it.

I actually overlooked the Route 2 grass for them, so that will probably be revised as well. Mankey only has to be leveled up to 9 before it can take on the gym, while the Nidos need a higher level for Double Kick. It's a minor point in Mankey's favor, but the Nidos have more potential.

Clefairy is one of the better Pokemon. Since you are required to use a team by your rules Nidoking isn't going to be getting many resources aside from spending money on it for X-Items (You get Horn Drill free in the hideout, and you have to go there if you aren't using glitches). This isn't really a problem or anything because Nidoking is great anyway, and he isn't getting them so he can help out the team rather than it not being fair to give them to him or anything, but Clefable should get Water Gun so it can help out against rocks at the very least. Going by your rules means mostly that when using Nidoking the other two Pokemon are tagging along to get exp while Nidoking is doing the bulk of the hard work, so Clefable is really worthwile to use since it can use a lot of TMs and nail super effective hits. STAB isn't really important when playing, but leveling up fast and getting super effective hits on important things is, and Clefairy does both.

You've misunderstood rule 3. You aren't required to use a team of 6, just a team that has more than one Pokemon carrying the load. Clefable does have nice coverage, though it requires TMs to be useful, which detracts a bit from its score. It will get a big increase, since it's way too low now.

You can't get Abra in the same place as you could in Red and Blue. You have to wait until you get out of Cerulean City to catch it.

D'oh! I'll have to rewrite Abra's review, then.

There should be a rule against trading because allowing trades to other games means that you can get any other Pokemon from trades too.

I'll edit rule 2 to include that, which is how I should have had it from the beginning.

Lastly, I disagree with your first and 5th ruling. There is no benefit to going to the game corner, but it's a glitch to skip it, so I would ban it from being used. Banning glitches based on how game breaking they are is the same as banning Pokemon by how good they are. I am pretty sure they fixed the safari zone glitch anyway in Yellow. I don't know though, making a tier list assuming more Pokemon are used is fine and all, but it's hard to draw the line on how much you are allowed to use one Pokemon.

Most of the glitches aren't banned due to them being game-breaking, it's mainly due to that most are difficult to manipulate. Basically, the last sentence of Rule 1. And skipping the Game Corner is a legitimate option, and something that's not hard to do. All you need is one Poke Doll, which is easily bought.

[samthedigital]

Pika isn't too helpful past the first gym, but it also has that unique utility at the extreme beginning of being able to help with raising weaker Pokemon, and can be used in a pinch for a while, at least up to Cerulean. It also gets Thunder Wave, which helps with catching while it's around. Simply deposit it before any special animation if it irks you that badly, but it's not a major factor. Pika should probably be a bit lower, but not down to the 3 or 4 level.

I actually overlooked the Route 2 grass for them, so that will probably be revised as well. Mankey only has to be leveled up to 9 before it can take on the gym, while the Nidos need a higher level for Double Kick. It's a minor point in Mankey's favor, but the Nidos have more potential.

Mankey and Pikachu both have the regular growth curve. Starting at level 6 Nidoran has only a small amount more of exp to gain than Mankey to level 9 even though he needs to be raised to 12, but he doesn't need to be babied as much. Pikachu suffers the same sort of problem. You need to abuse it for it to score quick kills, and even then it takes a while with its growth rate.

Most of the glitches aren't banned due to them being game-breaking, it's mainly due to that most are difficult to manipulate. Basically, the last sentence of Rule 1. And skipping the Game Corner is a legitimate option, and something that's not hard to do. All you need is one Poke Doll, which is easily bought.

I don't think that any of the glitches are difficult to manipulate. It's frustrating to manipulate the trainer fly glitch early on to get Pokemon with fading growths because you need to get lucky with random Pokemon, but come Cerulean you can reliably glitch a level 100 Mew without fail. After reaching Vermilion it is possible to immediately reach Lavender, and it's not a difficult glitch to do either. The only glitch that's kind of 'difficult' to do is the walk through walls glitch since getting the last step exactly to be falling off of a ledge is sort of tricky in a way I guess.

[Espinosa]

I think Bulbasaur deserves less than 8 in the Yellow version (though I'd give it an easy 9 in Red/Blue). For one, you get it after you beat Brock, meaning what made it a very important starter in R/B is no longer applicable. It's available before Misty and Ivysaur levelled decently is a lot better at facing Starmie than Pikachu, yes (though I'd still argue Bellsprout with Growth does a better job there, and without any grinding at that), but the question is, do you want to grind Bulbasaur all the way up? The gyms ahead up until Giovanni (who is even more easily defeated by a good water-type, and everybody runs a water-type of some sort) don't demand Ivysaur's/Venusaur's presence at all, so the only other thing it could do is fight those Hiker's rock/grounds that are pretty numerous at one point in the game. However, they're just as easily fought by anything with a water attack (and you have easily accessible Water Gun and Bubblebeam TMs early on and after that you will probably have a very solid water-type Pokemon of your own).

Razor Leaf is an auto-critical, which essentially makes it a 110 BP move that never hits critical, but you have to wait until lv. 30 to get it, until which your only STAB move is the 40 BP Vine Whip, which has 10 PP and doesn't last a decently long trip in any dungeon or trainer-filled area.

In the Elite Four, just about the only use it has is dispatching Bruno's Onixes, and the water/ice types Lorelei runs are too likely to survive the Razor Leaf crit and KO with a super-effective ice-type move, unless you've been overlevelling (which isn't that easy with Venusaur lategame). I'd say it's something like a 6.5/10 or so, mostly useful for fighting Misty but that's it.

Anyway, looking forward to more ratings.

[samthedigital]

Bulbasaur gets Vine Whip at level 13, so grinding is required to make Bulbasaur beat Brock. Technically Bulbasaur can use Tackle and Leech Seed, but it still takes a long time, and it makes Bulbasaur actually worse than the other two starters for Brock. Charmander is often criticized for its Brock fight in Red and Blue, but what they forget is that Potions exist, and outside of that Charmander has the best STAB out of the starters earlier on due to the bugs. I think in a speedrun without glitches picking Charmander as a starter is only 7 minutes or so slower than picking Squirtle, but Bulbasaur is a lot worse because of the lack of coverage that Grass brings. I would only give Bulbasaur a 7 in Red and Blue. It's a clear 5 in Yellow.

[Venusaur]

Hopefully this isn't a necro...

Eevee

To be honest, I've been dreading this review a bit. Eevee itself starts at a meager Lv. 25 with terrible typing and stats, but can instantly evolve into 3 distinctly different Pokemon immediately, Vaporeon, Flareon, and Jolteon. Vaporeon is the most defensive of the three, and is quite notable for being one of the few Water-types that are given to you free. It can pick up Bubblebeam instantly if it hasn't been used yet, but it has to deal with an immediate disadvantage against Erika unless you give it Ice Beam. It fares much better against the other Gyms, though, with Surf being available and favorable typing on the final two. Against the E4, though, it should sit out unless it gets Ice Beam or Blizzard.

Jolteon is the epitome of Electric-types: fast, powerful, and fragile. It can pick up Thunderbolt (if it still exists) and wreak havoc on Sabrina and Koga, but without Thunderbolt it has next to no offense. Jolteon fares much better against the E4 than Vaporeon, though, thanks to its Electric-type STAB. Ironically enough, it possesses one of the best Bug-type offenses in the game, but it doesn't have enough Attack to make this very notable.

Flareon is most likely the worst of the Eeveelutions, it's a Fire-type with pretty good Special (110), but no natural Fire moves other than Ember (31), Fire Spin, (36) and a very late Flamethrower (52!) and Fire Blast . Its Attack may seem usable, but it only gets Normal moves by TM, so its coverage is bad at best. Its Speed holds it back, though, as it's only base 65.

Honestly, choose Jolteon if you still have the Thunderbolt TM, and Vaporeon if you don't, as Flareon just isn't very useful. Eevee offers an interesting choice, but the options are too unbalanced to make it too meaningful.

Vaporeon: 7/10

Jolteon: 7/10

Flareon: 5/10

Edited August 7, 2011 by Venusaur

[samthedigital]

I don't really have anything to say about your reviews themselves, but the Pokemon are rated too high. Flareon should be a 3.5 or a 4 for the same reasons you gave. If the Pokemon is below average it shouldn't get above 5, and Flareon has no good offensive options for a long time. Vaporeon and Jolteon should get 6 to 7.5 because they are more comparable to Bellsprout (they are worse than Bellsprout though) than they are to Diglet.

[Espinosa]

Why are Vaporeon and Jolteon worse than Bellsprout? Bellsprout is indeed the Yellow version's best choice for facing Misty, and will dispose of all Hikers' Pokemon that are pretty common until around midgame, but it has to wait until lv. 38 as Weepinbell to learn Razor Leaf in order to have a reliable STAB for later game use. If you opt to evolve it early with a Leaf Stone, it will never learn Razor Leaf at all. Whether it's worth it training a Weepinbell to lv. 38 seems like a rhetorical question to me. Sure, it's got a high physical attack stat for those normal-type moves, but before its evolution, the best ones it gets are Take Down and Cut, which isn't something to be proud of.

I would say Bellsprout is like the Pokemon version of FE6 Marcus - invaluable early on, but better dropped later. Still deserving of praise for the early performance.

Now, Vaporeon and Jolteon are perfect as soon as you get them! Vaporeon gets Bubblebeam (before you can have Surf) and Ice Beam TMs, and Jolteon gets Thunderbolt, and that's about all they'll ever need! I should also note that electric and ice are two of the most important attack types for the elite four, and there's not one Pokemon that would resist both.

I also feel that since this is the Yellow version, Jolteon's rating should go up. Why? Because it no longer faces competition from Raichu, because the yellow rat can't be evolved without cheats or trading. There are always Pokemon weak to Jolteon's STAB, and it's too easy to train him.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Espinosa

[samthedigital]

Perfect? They are at level 25 and require TMs that other Pokemon could use, and they come when everything else starts to become available to the player. They are average in every respect. Other Pokemon are just better. Besides, they only get one of Thunderbolt or Ice Beam making them less valuable than say Lapras. Jolteon has a niche usefulness in a low level run against the Elite 4, but that's about it. Besides, Jolteon may be better than Pikachu, but it is leagues behind Zapdos, and the STAB isn't important most of the time. STAB really isn't all that important for most of the great Pokemon anyway.

Edited August 15, 2011 by samthedigital

[Espinosa]

They are indeed at level 25, which is noticeably higher than the levels of the wild Pokemon in the surrounding areas, not to mention that their base stats are considerably superior to, say, wild Raticates and Fearows near Celadon, and they can penetrate two of the most common weaknesses in the game. The relation of Eevee's level to the level of the trainers at that point in the game only loses to Dugtrio and the legendary birds, so it is an advantage, not a shortcoming.

Lapras starts at lv. 15 in Saffron and demands substantial amounts of grinding, and is acquired in a building with rather high Pokemon levels (your Rival will have a lv. 35 Kadabra, for example, and you have to face him to get through). Probably you will only go there once you have more badges and training under your belt. Ice Beam is learnt only at lv. 38, and it's a lot more efficient to teach it the same move via TM to make full use of it ASAP, so I wouldn't agree that having access to it naturally is a very big advantage.

Indeed, Jolteon and Vaporeon are next to worthless without TMs/HMs (Vaporeon), but that is the case with many of the game's Pokemon. Nidoking also demands TMs in order to function decently (unless you're cool with him stick with Thrash the whole game; personally I wouldn't use Nidoking at all if that was the best he could do). In fact, I'd say TMs are more important in the first generation than in any other, as natural learnsets are horrible for most Pokemon you can catch.

Zapdos is a legendary bird, and as such is difficult to catch, though its usefulness is certainly superior to Jolteon (much like Articuno is superior to any other ice-type). I'm just saying having an electric-type around has immediate benefits, and Jolteon wins in terms of availability.

[samthedigital]

They are indeed at level 25, which is noticeably higher than the levels of the wild Pokemon in the surrounding areas, not to mention that their base stats are considerably superior to, say, wild Raticates and Fearows near Celadon, and they can penetrate two of the most common weaknesses in the game. The relation of Eevee's level to the level of the trainers at that point in the game only loses to Dugtrio and the legendary birds, so it is an advantage, not a shortcoming.

Raticate and Fearow are a poor example since they can be obtained earlier and leveled higher. It doesn't matter what they compare to though immediately because a lot of stuff that comes earlier is better plus things like Snorlax, Exeggutor, Tauros, and a few other Pokemon. I'd also like to point out that only one of the Pokemon is usable. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam in tandem are good, but not amazing, but they only get one, and the Pokemon they hit for Super Effective aren't a problem in the first place.

Lapras starts at lv. 15 in Saffron and demands substantial amounts of grinding, and is acquired in a building with rather high Pokemon levels (your Rival will have a lv. 35 Kadabra, for example, and you have to face him to get through). Probably you will only go there once you have more badges and training under your belt. Ice Beam is learnt only at lv. 38, and it's a lot more efficient to teach it the same move via TM to make full use of it ASAP, so I wouldn't agree that having access to it naturally is a very big advantage.

Blizzard is much better, but Lapras can fight in Erica's gym and win without much of a hassle because of the Blizzard STAB. Lapras's required training is also a benefit to the player since Lapras can take out more than one kind of Pokemon.

Indeed, Jolteon and Vaporeon are next to worthless without TMs/HMs (Vaporeon), but that is the case with many of the game's Pokemon. Nidoking also demands TMs in order to function decently (unless you're cool with him stick with Thrash the whole game; personally I wouldn't use Nidoking at all if that was the best he could do). In fact, I'd say TMs are more important in the first generation than in any other, as natural learnsets are horrible for most Pokemon you can catch.

Nidoking needs Thrash until the middle of the game where it gets Horn Drill and Surf, and both are basically free. Those can last until the end of the game, and Nidoking is still a top tier Pokemon without the costly TMs. In any case, it's true that Pokemon need TMs, but a lot of Pokemon like for example Nidoking have a variety of moves to use whereas Vaporeon and Jolteon are one trick ponies.

Zapdos is a legendary bird, and as such is difficult to catch, though its usefulness is certainly superior to Jolteon (much like Articuno is superior to any other ice-type). I'm just saying having an electric-type around has immediate benefits, and Jolteon wins in terms of availability.

Zapdos can be caught with the Master Ball, and it's the best Pokemon to use it on. Having an electric type isn't useful though because the STAB isn't an amazing benefit. It's like being a good Bug Pokemon to a lesser extent.

[Espinosa]

Raticate and Fearow are a poor example since they can be obtained earlier and leveled higher. It doesn't matter what they compare to though immediately because a lot of stuff that comes earlier is better plus things like Snorlax, Exeggutor, Tauros, and a few other Pokemon. I'd also like to point out that only one of the Pokemon is usable. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam in tandem are good, but not amazing, but they only get one, and the Pokemon they hit for Super Effective aren't a problem in the first place.

Nidoking needs Thrash until the middle of the game where it gets Horn Drill and Surf, and both are basically free. Those can last until the end of the game, and Nidoking is still a top tier Pokemon without the costly TMs. In any case, it's true that Pokemon need TMs, but a lot of Pokemon like for example Nidoking have a variety of moves to use whereas Vaporeon and Jolteon are one trick ponies.

Well, sure. If you want Boltbeam on one Pokemon, you can choose Starmie or Lapras. I'd also argue that Jolteon with STAB Thunderbolt facing Lorelei's Lapras has a more advantageous match-up against it than, say, Nidoking with the same Thunderbolt. It's not so bad to have Pokemon who specialise only in one or two types of attacks, but do so well, and whose typing is effective for specific challenging point of the game.

Blizzard is much better, but Lapras can fight in Erica's gym and win without much of a hassle because of the Blizzard STAB. Lapras's required training is also a benefit to the player since Lapras can take out more than one kind of Pokemon.

You need Surf to get the Blizzard TM, and to get Surf, you should defeat Koga. If you defeated Koga, you probably won against Erika easily, and thus have no business postponing her gym when what follows after her gym has a noticeable jump in levels and difficulty.

Zapdos can be caught with the Master Ball, and it's the best Pokemon to use it on. Having an electric type isn't useful though because the STAB isn't an amazing benefit. It's like being a good Bug Pokemon to a lesser extent.

Beedrill is a good Pokemon in the first generation, because bug is effective against poison. This makes Beedrill perfect for Erika's gym, where its attacks are often 4x effective, not to mention effective for all those Weezings and Muks that you fight a lot during the midgame.

If Zapdos's electric STAB is not a benefit, why should we use the Pokeball on him and not Articuno? Or is an ice STAB not a benefit either?

[samthedigital]

Well, sure. If you want Boltbeam on one Pokemon, you can choose Starmie or Lapras. I'd also argue that Jolteon with STAB Thunderbolt facing Lorelei's Lapras has a more advantageous match-up against it than, say, Nidoking with the same Thunderbolt. It's not so bad to have Pokemon who specialise only in one or two types of attacks, but do so well, and whose typing is effective for specific challenging point of the game.

Nidoking and Jolteon are not comparable. Nidoking can use Thunderbolt before Jolteon exists to score OHKOs against Slowpoke, and after Thunderbolt eventually becomes useless it can replace it for Horn Drill and lose no KO power. Jolteon still has problems in that area anyway since it starts out slow and won't gain levels easily.

You need Surf to get the Blizzard TM, and to get Surf, you should defeat Koga. If you defeated Koga, you probably won against Erika easily, and thus have no business postponing her gym when what follows after her gym has a noticeable jump in levels and difficulty.

The point is to maximize level ups for Lapras because there isn't a real problem with ignoring experience from Erika's gym for a while. I don't see where you are finding this difficulty jump though. The game isn't exactly challenging at any point in time, and not fighting Erika for a little while isn't going to turn a Pokemon's KO power down very much if at all.

Beedrill is a good Pokemon in the first generation, because bug is effective against poison. This makes Beedrill perfect for Erika's gym, where its attacks are often 4x effective, not to mention effective for all those Weezings and Muks that you fight a lot during the midgame.

Beedrill has an incredibly slow start learning Twineedle at level 20, and it is bad enough statistically so that its stats actually matter. It's not a good Pokemon compared to others, so being the best Bug doesn't make it good.

If Zapdos's electric STAB is not a benefit, why should we use the Pokeball on him and not Articuno? Or is an ice STAB not a benefit either?

I was addressing Jolteon's STAB, but I can see why you'd be confused. You are missing the point though. It's the fact that the Pokemon can OHKO that matters and not that they have some STAB or whatever. Jolteon can't OHKO as effectively as other Pokemon. It's not a great Pokemon. There's no need to get into the fact that it has Electric STAB because it doesn't matter.

[Venusaur]

It's 1:50 AM, and I have nothing better to do than quickly crank this one out:

Porygon

This is most likely the least efficient Pokemon in the entire game, due to its insane cost: 9999 Coins! This would take an eternity to get via Slots, and the money cost is just too steep for what Porygon is: A below-average choice for a Normal-type. Despite the fact that Porygon should never be gotten at any point in any sort of efficiency run, and even most normal runs, but it does not get a 0 due to the fact that it can do something when it's obtained, via wasting several TMs or spamming Agility and Tri-Attack in a pitiful effort to get crits and status conditions.

Porygon: .25

[Izzak]

After much procrastination, we finally head north to Route 24 & 25.

Charmander

Charmander, a popular choice among Red version users, is one of the few Pokemon in Yellow that doesn't have to be caught to be used, which is pretty convenient seeing as it's your first Fire-type right when Grass-types start making their appearances. Its joining level is a low 10, but thanks to auto-Ember and the prevalence of wild Oddish/Bellsprout this issue's effect is reduced quite nicely, but it still struggles against the Rock-types of Hikers, and Misty is a no-go thanks to that weakness.

After its evolution into Charmeleon its role stays largely the same, hitting Grass and Bug types for Fire damage, but its continued lack of anything new makes it dwindle a bit until it gets Flamethrower/Fire Blast and its evolution to Charizard, though Slash at Lv. 33 does provide crit damage. It is, however, still effective against Erika and Koga, even with the aging Ember. Flamethrower, however, comes at a late Lv. 46, so picking up Fire Blast might be the better option if you intend to use it through Giovanni's gym.

Charmander's niche is mainly in the Fire-type, which is especially rare in Yellow. However, a lack of Fire attacks other than Ember really nullifies this niche in the mid to late-game, and Flamethrower/Fire Blast only come when the Fire type's time to shine is burnt out. As a side note, Charizard is one of the two Fire types that are invulnerable to Ground type attacks due to the added Flying type, so for what it's worth it still hits hard in Giovanni's gym, though Rock attacks are deadly. Still, it is free, and for what it's worth, it does learn Cut, just in case you couldn't get Bulbasaur, though that's easy enough with the Potion glitch.

Charmander: 6/10

I think charmander shoud be 7 or 6.5

It's a little better than your thought

He has fly, fire blast and slash are not too bad, huh?

I still don't like charizard much, except his beauty

It's 1:50 AM, and I have nothing better to do than quickly crank this one out:

Porygon

This is most likely the least efficient Pokemon in the entire game, due to its insane cost: 9999 Coins! This would take an eternity to get via Slots, and the money cost is just too steep for what Porygon is: A below-average choice for a Normal-type. Despite the fact that Porygon should never be gotten at any point in any sort of efficiency run, and even most normal runs, but it does not get a 0 due to the fact that it can do something when it's obtained, via wasting several TMs or spamming Agility and Tri-Attack in a pitiful effort to get crits and status conditions.

Porygon: .25

It should be zeroooooooooooooooooooo

porygon is too bad

It's even worse than flareon or evee

[Venusaur]

Well, better late than never?

Vulpix

While this is wild in Blue, here Vulpix has to be bought from the Game Corner, for 1000 coins, essentially costing $20,000 to even exist. So, how is it when you get it? Well, it can be insta-evolved into Ninetales, which has 100 Special, but only Ember to attack with. Essentially, it makes it a worse Flareon, which isn't saying much. Unfortunately, I can't test to see what level it comes at, but it's probably pretty low, making it generally pretty worthless. At least it can do some damage at the upcoming Gyms, though.

Vulpix: 3.5/10

[samthedigital]

This is late too, but Charmander isn't only an option as an HM slave, but he is the best option since he is free, quicker than anyone else to get, and he learns Dig and Cut which are both important for HM slaves. Most Pokemon are useless and Charmander has a reason to be on every team, so I would give him some merit at least for that. I don't really disagree with anything though, just that Charmander should be rated a little higher for utility.