Balcerzak's FE4 AAAA attempts

[Psych]

If you feel daring enough, since Lakche and Skasher are fine, give the Hero Sword to Patty. Or the Prayer sword through the breaking method. I stil suggest the Pursuit Ring to Tinny. Though if you give it to Leaf, maybe end up with the Elite Ring to Tinny if not Patty.

[FionordeQuester]

Ayra x Noish

Midir x Aideen

Lex x Sylvia

Claude x Fury

Beowulf x Lachesis

Holyn x Bridget

Levin x Tiltyu

Hm, mind if I critique? Or have you already fully committed to this?

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Ayra x Noish

Midir x Aideen

Lex x Sylvia

Claude x Fury

Beowulf x Lachesis

Holyn x Bridget

Levin x Tiltyu

Hm, mind if I critique? Or have you already fully committed to this?

He'll pass the minimum standards for an all-A rank just fine.

[FionordeQuester]

I still think it could be better though.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I still think it could be better though.

In terms of levels gained or turns completed? :D

BTW, I've always wanted to experiment with passing down the Pursuit Ring to Leafy to see what its effect would be on an efficiency run.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Rufus T FireFly

[Balcerzak]

Ayra x Noish

Midir x Aideen

Lex x Sylvia

Claude x Fury

Beowulf x Lachesis

Holyn x Bridget

Levin x Tiltyu

Hm, mind if I critique? Or have you already fully committed to this?

You are absolutely free to critique, as always. I don't know that it'll change my mind, but reading a healthy discussion every now and then never hurt anyone.

[FionordeQuester]

Ayra x Noish

I know that this is supposed to be a great pairing, but what are you getting here that's so indispinsable that it can't be gotten from the Lex and Aira pairing? Having Elite on these guys makes it so that you can have two extremely fast growing, great units who don't need the Elite Ring AND can grow much more defense than they would otherwise be able to. It's a great way of freeing up other units like say, Celice, to earn kills rather than them. Ambush is also a pretty nice bonus.

Midir x Aideen

Nothing to nitpick here. It's the only pairing I agree with really.

Lex x Sylvia

What I'm wondering is how on earth you're going to build this up without holding Lex back. Sure, you have somewhat of that same issue with Lex and Aira, but in that pairing, you had that Hero Sword conversation in Chapter 3 to generate an enormous 100 point boost to their love score. Lex and Sylvia don't have that luxury.

I can't see Leen making good use of the Elite skill since she's so weak (though I suppose the Prayer Sword can help her out in Arena's, but that's something I'd prefer to give to Patty if I can help it), and Corple has great enough staves that he simply doesn't need Elite (especially if Claude passes some down to him).

I don't know, maybe this'll be beneficial. It just doesn't seem like a great use of Lex's Elite skill.

Claude x Fury

I'm assuming that this is to give Sety staves to gain experience with? Well, that's not really a luxury Sety needs, and I'd prefer to have him with Holsety should he need it.

Beowulf x Lachesis

I'm not sure, but I think that Fin and Lachesis have enough time to hook up, in which case, I'd recommend you do that instead, as Prayer is infinetly better than whatever small bonuses Beowulf can give. If it's inheritance that's an issue, I would recommend having Fin kill Shagaal in Chapter 3 for the Silver Blade. What else would Delmud need but that and Prayer?

Besides, Lachesis wouldn't want Beowulf. Oh sure, Beowulf might be easier to get in the sack with. He may have those rogue-ish good looks. His body may be as chiseled as Zeus's. He may have more hairs on his chest than Austin Powers, but he's not a FAMILY MAN like Fin is!

And speaking of family men, just where the heck is Beowulf when his children need him? DEAD! Fat lot of good those rogue-ish good looks did him! So why the H.F.I.L. are you giving the kids a father who's going to DIE, when they can have a father like Fin, who will still be alive to comfort and nourish them whenever they're suffering of a broken heart. What, do you WANT their father to die, huh, huh, HUH!!

Holyn x Bridget

You know, I'm always hearing about how good this pairing supposedly is, but to be honest, I never quite got it. Sure, Holyn can pass down some good stats as well as an extra rank in swords to Patty, but does that really outweigh the advantages of Bargain? I don't think so.

While Patty without Holyn has to struggle just as much as everyone else does to hold on to the Elite Ring, Patty can use that and whatever else she can afford to Arena up with no repercussions whatsoever. Between the Sleep Sword, the Prayer Sword, and whatever other great swords you can give her, I can't see her ever needing the extra boost to swords.

Levin x Tiltyu

This one is probably so that you can have early Holsety with Arthur. That's what I'm assuming anyways. However, Arthur doesn't have enough move to take full advantage of Holsety anyways, so it's really not all it's cracked up to be in the long run. And if it's a question of whether or not he needs it, I don't believe he does with Wrath on his side.

If you really want someone who can just nuke the game, just get Sigurd a Hero Sword, get a whole bunch of kills on it, pass it down to Celice along with the Leg Ring, Elite Ring, and whatever other rings you think would be good on him, and watch Celice grow into a virtual meat grinder.

No, the one who really needs help out of the pair is Tinny, and I believe Azel benefits her more than Levin does anyways, for I believe Azel gives her a boost to magic, helping her use Wrath to it's fullest effect.

Edited February 24, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[Marthur]

Ayra x Noish

I know that this is supposed to be a great pairing, but what are you getting here that's so indispinsable that it can't be gotten from the Lex and Aira pairing? Having Elite on these guys makes it so that you can have two extremely fast growing, great units who don't need the Elite Ring AND can grow much more defense than they would otherwise be able to. It's a great way of freeing up other units like say, Celice, to earn kills rather than them. Ambush is also a pretty nice bonus.

Ayra x Lex is the only pairing I agree with you here for an A-rank run.

Midir x Aideen

Nothing to nitpick here. It's the only pairing I agree with really.

Edin x Claude would have been the best choice, because you get the Rescue Staff in chapter 5 and get to use it through the whole second gen. It's too bad Edin is already paired. :(

Lex x Sylvia

What I'm wondering is how on earth you're going to build this up without holding Lex back. Sure, you have somewhat of that same issue with Lex and Aira, but in that pairing, you had that Hero Sword conversation in Chapter 3 to generate an enormous 100 point boost to their love score. Lex and Sylvia don't have that luxury.

I can't see Leen making good use of the Elite skill since she's so weak (though I suppose the Prayer Sword can help her out in Arena's, but that's something I'd prefer to give to Patty if I can help it), and Corple has great enough staves that he simply doesn't need Elite (especially if Claude passes some down to him).

I don't know, maybe this'll be beneficial. It just doesn't seem like a great use of Lex's Elite skill.

Lynn is the only character having trouble leveling up in the second gen, when doing a ranked playthrough. Dancing doesn't provide enough exp and she can't go very far in the Arena. I remember I had to stuff most of the civilians to her because of this. Elite provides her double exp while dancing, which means a level up every 5 turns. She'll still need 145 turns to reach lvl 30 providing that she doesn't fight.

I guess Lex's defense + Prayer will also help her in the arena.

I agree Corpul doesn't really need Elite thanks to staves abuse.

Claude x Fury

I'm assuming that this is to give Sety staves to gain experience with? Well, that's not really a luxury Sety needs, and I'd prefer to have him with Holsety should he need it.

Sety is good no matter who is father is. Giving him Holsety is just overkill.

Seriously, the only thing he needs is his light tome. Claude will help him boost his Magic, which will make Sety great for attacking and Status Staves.

Also Fee with Libro.

Beowulf x Lachesis

I'm not sure, but I think that Fin and Lachesis have enough time to hook up, in which case, I'd recommend you do that instead, as Prayer is infinetly better than whatever small bonuses Beowulf can give. If it's inheritance that's an issue, I would recommend having Fin kill Shagaal in Chapter 3 for the Silver Blade. What else would Delmud need but that and Prayer?

Besides, Lachesis wouldn't want Beowulf. Oh sure, Beowulf might be easier to get in the sack with. He may have those rogue-ish good looks. His body may be as chiseled as Zeus's. He may have more hairs on his chest than Austin Powers, but he's not a FAMILY MAN like Fin is!

And speaking of family men, just where the heck is Beowulf when his children need him? DEAD! Fat lot of good those rogue-ish good looks did him! So why the H.F.I.L. are you giving the kids a father who's going to DIE, when they can have a father like Fin, who will still be alive to comfort and nourish them whenever they're suffering of a broken heart. What, do you WANT their father to die, huh, huh, HUH!!

Delmud and Nanna don't need Prayer.

Beo's HP and Str growths are better than Finn's. Finn only provides better Magic and Luck which won't really help them.

@Balcerzak: Consider Noish if you end up pairing Ayra with Lex, and don't mind the lack of Pursuit.

I'd pass down the Hero Sword to Delmud if you do that though.

Beowulf is the right choice otherwise, IMO.

Holyn x Bridget

You know, I'm always hearing about how good this pairing supposedly is, but to be honest, I never quite got it. Sure, Holyn can pass down some good stats as well as an extra rank in swords to Patty, but does that really outweigh the advantages of Bargain? I don't think so.

While Patty without Holyn has to struggle just as much as everyone else does to hold on to the Elite Ring, Patty can use that and whatever else she can afford to Arena up with no repercussions whatsoever. Between the Sleep Sword, the Prayer Sword, and whatever other great swords you can give her, I can't see her ever needing the extra boost to swords.

Faval doesn't need the extra gold. Deu provides better growth rates than Holin though.

Still Patty will probably be more durable on the battlefield with Holin. Which also means she can stay at the front more often and get more gold, which can profit anybody. Not only Faval.

Levin x Tiltyu

This one is probably so that you can have early Holsety with Arthur. That's what I'm assuming anyways. However, Arthur doesn't have enough move to take full advantage of Holsety anyways, so it's really not all it's cracked up to be in the long run. And if it's a question of whether or not he needs it, I don't believe he does with Wrath on his side.

If you really want someone who can just nuke the game, just get Sigurd a Hero Sword, get a whole bunch of kills on it, pass it down to Celice along with the Leg Ring, Elite Ring, and whatever other rings you think would be good on him, and watch Celice grow into a virtual meat grinder.

No, the one who really needs help out of the pair is Tinny, and I believe Azel benefits her more than Levin does anyways, for I believe Azel gives her a boost to magic, helping her use Wrath to it's fullest effect.

Arthur can take down Johalvier's army by himself with Holsety allowing Fee to go save the villages without having to worry about him getting killed. The rest of the army can then focus on Johan (recruited in one turn) and then move forward.

There's also a path through the mountains that he can take to reach Rivough. Chances are he can even reach Rivough before Celice and get some exp from Danan, who begs to be abused.

Movement issue is fixed once he reaches promotion, which can probably be done as soon as the start of chapter 8.

Yes, because the +5% magic growth will totally help her, unlike Elwind and Tornado.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Marthur

[Mekkah]

Just try to have Ethlin get as many kills on her Light Sword as you possibly can,

This is stupid, it's never going to get 50+ and both Leaf and Ethlin already have Critical. I think Pursuit Ring on Leaf is fine but not necessarily the best option when there's other scrubs in Gen 1 who can make use of the Pursuit Ring. Light Sword might be best to keep around too, ranged swords are fun. Leaf has A swords so he can use just about anything you want him to. He doesn't necessarily need range in Ch7.

However, Arthur doesn't have enough move to take full advantage of Holsety anyways, so it's really not all it's cracked up to be in the long run.

There is no question that Levin x Tiltyu is the way to go in ranked over Levin x Fury. For one, it makes it a lot easier to get Arthur to L30, whereas Sety needs no help whatsoever since he comes at a high level and could practically get to L30 on arena and staves alone. Secondly, this way you benefit from Holsety for longer overall. Third, by the time Sety joins, Arthur will probably be promoted and be completely superior to Sety thanks to his mount. Not being able to ORKO without a Pursuit Ring isn't even such a big deal when you don't always want to, and Balcerak is fiddling with the RNG anyways so he can make use of those extremely high rate Continue and Critical procs.

Paperblade did Ardan/Sylvia and Lex/Brigid which I think is the right choice. Both Patty and Leen are hopeless cases, but Faval definitely benefits from Elite more than Corple does overall. Holyn/Ayra would be my preference over Noish/Ayra but both should work out. Midir/Aideen is simply the best pairing possible for her. Claude/Fury is what Paperblade did...I really prefer Noish, but on the other hand, extra staff level for Fee is great for ranked.

Gonna watch the vids now.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

The enemies come towards you in certain sections of chapters. That's where Arthur can earn his keep. Besides, in Chapter 7, Celice will be trailing through the desert and there are foes to be felled at Melgen.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Rufus T FireFly

[Paperblade]

AAAA rank is all about maximizing non-combat EXP (arena is not combat exp)

Which is why I ran Ardan/Sylvia. This lets you use the Sleep Sword/Ambush combo to run Leen through the arena with ease (mine got to like level 26 or something ridiculous), and Lex/Briggid's Patty can ALSO Sleep Sword/Ambush. Lex!Patty is probably better since Patty has more trouble getting EXP other than the arena, Corple can staff spam for ez exp, and Elite!Faval hits level 28 from the arena alone.

Elite on people that owninate everything in sight with Iron (such as Ayra's kids) is wasteful because they can just use the Elite Ring in the arena which gets a vast majority of your EXP.

Dew is a good dad because Bargain makes the Elite Ring essentially free, but I'm not sure who I would pair him with.

[FionordeQuester]

Ayra x Lex is the only pairing I agree with you here for an A-rank run.

And Aideen x Midir was the only pairing I agreed with Balcerzak for an AAAA ranked run. I guess we're running into all kinds of ideas today, huh?

Edin x Claude would have been the best choice, because you get the Rescue Staff in chapter 5 and get to use it through the whole second gen. It's too bad Edin is already paired.

Irrelevant, but, I don't see any big advantage with the Return staff for Lana anyways. Aideen gives her much better returns as far as staff usage is concerned.

Lynn is the only character having trouble leveling up in the second gen, when doing a ranked playthrough. Dancing doesn't provide enough exp and she can't go very far in the Arena. I remember I had to stuff most of the civilians to her because of this. Elite provides her double exp while dancing, which means a level up every 5 turns. She'll still need 145 turns to reach lvl 30 providing that she doesn't fight. I guess Lex's defense + Prayer will also help her in the arena. I agree Corpul doesn't really need Elite thanks to staves abuse.

Ok.

Sety is good no matter who is father is. Giving him Holsety is just overkill.

Seriously, the only thing he needs is his light tome. Claude will help him boost his Magic, which will make Sety great for attacking and Status Staves. Also Fee with Libro.

Eh...I suppose. I guess I just like Azel and Tiltyu a lot because it's easier to pair them with that 100 point love growth conversation they have in Chapter 4.

Delmud and Nanna don't need Prayer. Beo's HP and Str growths are better than Finn's. Finn only provides better Magic and Luck which won't really help them.

Delmud and Nanna don't need Prayer like Sety doesn't need Holsety. They're still great units without it, but WITH IT, it makes them a real force to be reckoned with, especially in the Arena, as I don't remember Delmud being able to pwn stomp it the way most units are able to.

Beowulf's HP and Strength is irrelevant because they're stats that Delmud already has plenty of, and Nanna can simply use her staves to gain experience. I mean really, do you think Delmud's going to need anything higher than the 60% Strength and the 110% HP that Fin gives him? I don't think so. Beowulf only tops those by 10%.

@Balcerzak: Consider Noish if you end up pairing Ayra with Lex, and don't mind the lack of Pursuit. I'd pass down the Hero Sword to Delmud if you do that though. Beowulf is the right choice otherwise, IMO.

You know, it's kind of ironic that your using that spinning head icon in the same paragraph you said this, because that confused expression was just about my reaction to this. Funny huh? In any case, I think a lack of Pursuit is going to be a pretty darn big hindrance, whether Balcerzak's RN burning or not.

Faval doesn't need the extra gold. Deu provides better growth rates than Holin though.

Still Patty will probably be more durable on the battlefield with Holin. Which also means she can stay at the front more often and get more gold, which can profit anybody. Not only Faval.

The battlefield? How's she going to be an active participant when most foot units get left in the dust by the mounted ones? In any case, I say that whatever boost Holyn can give is easily accounted for by Patty being able to use whatever rings and swords she wants to use basically without penalty (thanks to Bargain).

Arthur can take down Johalvier's army by himself with Holsety allowing Fee to go save the villages without having to worry about him getting killed. The rest of the army can then focus on Johan (recruited in one turn) and then move forward.

Arthur's taking down Johalva? I don't know about you, but I was planning on just having Celice lay the pwnsmack on them with all of the stuff I was going to pass down to him, so, I guess if you want Arthur to do it, sure.

There's also a path through the mountains that he can take to reach Rivough. Chances are he can even reach Rivough before Celice and get some exp from Danan, who begs to be abused.

Oh yeah, I forgot about how easy Danan is to abuse. But, could Arthur really beat Leg Ring Celice?

Movement issue is fixed once he reaches promotion, which can probably be done as soon as the start of chapter 8.

Isn't that about the time you get Sety though?

Yes, because the +5% magic growth will totally help her, unlike Elwind and Tornado.

Eh, heh, heh, heh....yeah, I remembered Azel having A LOT more magic growth than he actually does. Darn, I guess Levin IS the better father, huh?

This is stupid, it's never going to get 50+ and both Leaf and Ethlin already have Critical.

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you. Let me just try it out, and then we'll see.

I think Pursuit Ring on Leaf is fine but not necessarily the best option when there's other scrubs in Gen 1 who can make use of the Pursuit Ring.

I'm not going to argue here, as I'm fully aware that you could be right, and I haven't gotten far enough in my run to speak with as much authority on this matter as I would like to.

Personally, I just wanted Leaf to have the Pursuit Ring so that he can get his promotion as quickly as he possibly can.

Light Sword might be best to keep around too, ranged swords are fun. Leaf has A swords so he can use just about anything you want him to. He doesn't necessarily need range in Ch7.

It'd help though.

AAAA rank is all about maximizing non-combat EXP (arena is not combat exp)

Isn't the Arena kind of the main source of experience for anyone who doesn't happen to be lucky enough to have a mount though? Foot soldiers will have the occasional pack of enemies to dive into, but for the most part, most of the action is going to be reserved for the people who can rush into the enemy packs as fast as possible.

Which is why I ran Ardan/Sylvia. This lets you use the Sleep Sword/Ambush combo to run Leen through the arena with ease (mine got to like level 26 or something ridiculous), and Lex/Briggid's Patty can ALSO Sleep Sword/Ambush.

You know, Ardan/Sylvia sounds like an absolute brilliant idea! I can't believe I never thought of that! Thanks!

Lex!Patty is probably better since Patty has more trouble getting EXP other than the arena, Corple can staff spam for ez exp, and Elite!Faval hits level 28 from the arena alone.

I don't quite agree on Patty and Faval. Bargain allows them the Elite Ring without repercussion anyways, and Patty can use the Prayer Sword to get through the Arena. I would hope between that and her Sleep Sword that she could get through the Arena fine.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Sety comes in the middle of Chapter 8 with 6 move for his entire time with the team. Arthur gets a fucking horse.

[FionordeQuester]

I know. Didn't I just say that I was convinced of Levin x Tiltyu being better than Azel x Tiltyu?

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I know. Didn't I just say that I was convinced of Levin x Tiltyu being better than Azel x Tiltyu?

Didn't read. It's amazing how fatigue makes me look so stupid.

[Marthur]

Irrelevant, but, I don't see any big advantage with the Return staff for Lana anyways. Aideen gives her much better returns as far as staff usage is concerned.

Rescue Staff. There are quite a lot of times when it can be put to good use by Rana in chapter 7 since Celice has a lot of backtracking to do:

-After Yied is captured. Rana can Rescue Celice, so he doesn't have to go through the desert.

-After Melgen is conquered, she can Rescue him again and get him closer to Darna.

-After Darna is conquered, she can Rescue Lynn allowing 4 units to get closer to Alster.

Once Leaf is promoted, the Rescue Staff can go to him and be used to have Lynn refresh 4 mounted units.

You know, it's kind of ironic that your using that spinning head icon in the same paragraph you said this, because that confused expression was just about my reaction to this. Funny huh? In any case, I think a lack of Pursuit is going to be a pretty darn big hindrance, whether Balcerzak's RN burning or not.

One of the reason I told him to consider Noish, is because he already did Lachesis x Beowulf in his previous run. So this was also meant to have him experience a different pairing.

Anyway, contrarily to what you might think, it's not a bad pairing at all. Activating Berserk isn't even an issue thanks to Delmud's high skill.

The battlefield? How's she going to be an active participant when most foot units get left in the dust by the mounted ones?

The mounted unit aren't always going to kill everything. Focus on moving forward should be their priority, while the foot units can finish off the armies.

Besides, there are a lot of situations where you can separate both groups.

Chapter 2: While the mounted units will be going to Anphony. The foot soldiers can be stationed near Mackily. With this setup, both the mounted and foot soldiers can see some action.

Chapter 3: Has different armies in three different directions. Not an issue. Foot soldiers can wait above Madino and attack Orgahil once Sigurd capture Silvail.

Chapter 4 and 5: have Mountain / Forests and Desert that slow down the mounted units.

Chapter 7: has a lot of backtracking for Celice allowing the foot soldiers to regroup with the mounted ones.

etc, etc...

Arthur's taking down Johalva? I don't know about you, but I was planning on just having Celice lay the pwnsmack on them with all of the stuff I was going to pass down to him, so, I guess if you want Arthur to do it, sure.

Not moving Celice toward the next castle to capture is a waste of turns.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Marthur

[General Spoon]

This is stupid, it's never going to get 50+ and both Leaf and Ethlin already have Critical.

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you. Let me just try it out, and then we'll see.

http://serenesforest.net/fe4/char_base.htm

Name: Ethlin...Skills: Critical

Edited February 24, 2011 by General Spoon

[FionordeQuester]

Ok, look, I know Ethlin and Leaf already have Critical. But that doesn't change the fact that any kills past 50 make those criticals more likely to happen. That's my motivation for powering up the Light Sword.

[Paperblade]

Turn counts aren't a big enough deal to warrant making Lester totally worthless (0 skills bow user with a 20% Str growth? Ronan is better than this shit).

Also, to those saying foot units will never/rarely see regular combat: My Azel landed the killing blow to get the Elite Ring.

[FionordeQuester]

Turn counts aren't a big enough deal to warrant making Lester totally worthless (0 skills bow user with a 20% Str growth? Ronan is better than this shit).

...What brought that to mind? The only ones who give Lester 20% growth to strength are the magic users...

Also, to those saying foot units will never/rarely see regular combat: My Azel landed the killing blow to get the Elite Ring.

What did you do, warp Azel over to the castle that activates Voltz? Can't imagine how else would Azel get there in time? And I don't mean to say that foot units won't get action at all, it's just that they probably won't be getting nearly as much of it as the mounted units.

But hey, maybe I'm remembering the maps wrong, if one of the last posters is anyone to regard on this matter.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

There are ranked runs, in which you just meet the minimum... Quite frankly, I think it's doable with with any team...

Then there are those ranked runs in which the player further pushes the restrictions up. Can I/he do the same(gain more experience, protect castles, avoid deaths) in even fewer turns. That's what y'all are debating here.

Just y'all wait, I'm gonna all-A rank a sub run.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Rufus T FireFly

[Paperblade]

...What brought that to mind? The only ones who give Lester 20% growth to strength are the magic users...

Someone suggested Etain/Claude for early Rescue Staff.

What did you do, warp Azel over to the castle that activates Voltz? Can't imagine how else would Azel get there in time? And I don't mean to say that foot units won't get action at all, it's just that they probably won't be getting nearly as much of it as the mounted units.

Foot units catch up on roads when mounted units are taking the castle and then you have time to set up as Voltz's group charges you.

There are ranked runs, in which you just meet the minimum... Quite frankly, I think it's doable with with any team...

Then there are those ranked runs in which the player further pushes the restrictions up. Can I/he do the same(gain more experience, protect castles, avoid deaths) in even fewer turns. That's what y'all are debating here.

Just y'all wait, I'm gonna all-A rank a sub run.

I was over 30 turns under the limit and skipped a majority of the enemies in the Epilogue (Leaf/Leen/Celice Rescue/Dance chain seize Freege on turn 10? hell yeah). Keep in mind that I did not abuse Dew/Diedre/Ethlin as much as I could have (Fionorde's is a higher level after Ch. 1 than mine was when she left), abuse arena "losses" (losing in the arena does not count against you for the purposes of ranked, so if you lose you can get free healing when normally your staff users would just be running forward, I didn't abuse it because Staff EXP is ezmode there but it would have been useful for getting Diedre/Fury some extra EXP)

Edited February 25, 2011 by Paperblade

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Someone suggested Etain/Claude for early Rescue Staff.

Foot units catch up on roads when mounted units are taking the castle and then you have time to set up as Voltz's group charges you.

I was over 30 turns under the limit and skipped a majority of the enemies in the Epilogue (Leaf/Leen/Celice Rescue/Dance chain seize Freege on turn 10? hell yeah). Keep in mind that I did not abuse Dew/Diedre/Ethlin as much as I could have (Fionorde's is a higher level after Ch. 1 than mine was when she left), abuse arena "losses" (losing in the arena does not count against you for the purposes of ranked, so if you lose you can get free healing when normally your staff users would just be running forward, I didn't abuse it because Staff EXP is ezmode there but it would have been useful for getting Diedre/Fury some extra EXP)

370 is a fairly easy number to reach[in my world] <_< . Chapters 3, 5, 8, 9, and 10 can all be done in 28 turns no sweat, if not less(26 turns in my world, and that's before some recent improvements in my move-making).

I've never cared about arena losses or "cheating" the arena into nabbing that extra victory. On the map though, I play somewhat risk averse.

As for you Azel scenario, not difficult to do in one sticks to the "move the whole army together" principle.

Edited February 25, 2011 by Rufus T FireFly

[Balcerzak]

Some replies before updates.

Ayra x Noish

I know that this is supposed to be a great pairing, but what are you getting here that's so indispinsable that it can't be gotten from the Lex and Aira pairing?

Elite going to someone who needs it, not who is already a badass and can curbstomp everything.

Lex x Sylvia

What I'm wondering is how on earth you're going to build this up without holding Lex back. Sure, you have somewhat of that same issue with Lex and Aira, but in that pairing, you had that Hero Sword conversation in Chapter 3 to generate an enormous 100 point boost to their love score. Lex and Sylvia don't have that luxury.

I can't see Leen making good use of the Elite skill since she's so weak (though I suppose the Prayer Sword can help her out in Arena's, but that's something I'd prefer to give to Patty if I can help it), and Corple has great enough staves that he simply doesn't need Elite (especially if Claude passes some down to him).

I fully intend to hold Lex back. Lex only deserves to see minimal actual combat exposure, and only when something absolutely needs nuking, or chipping to soften up.

Also, Leen gets Prayer by default (Sylvia), so she doesn't need to deprive any of the other girls of Prayer Sword. Corple really doesn't need the XP because Staves are easymode, but a dancer is pretty much the only character I am legitimately worried about reaching level 30 with, so I wanted her all Elite, all the time.

Claude x Fury

I'm assuming that this is to give Sety staves to gain experience with? Well, that's not really a luxury Sety needs, and I'd prefer to have him with Holsety should he need it.

Mostly extra staff rank for Fee, to be honest. I get giddy with the prospects of early flying 8 move Warp and Libro, as I anticipate Fee will promote well in advance of Leaf. Passing A rank staves to Sety is just gravy.

Beowulf x Lachesis

I'm not sure, but I think that Fin and Lachesis have enough time to hook up, in which case, I'd recommend you do that instead, as Prayer is infinetly better than whatever small bonuses Beowulf can give. If it's inheritance that's an issue, I would recommend having Fin kill Shagaal in Chapter 3 for the Silver Blade. What else would Delmud need but that and Prayer?

Finn x Lachesis: 50 +2. No special events. With adjacents that's +7. Can't abuse Jealousy squares due to having reset the game. That takes 65 turns to hit 500, unless I miss my math. At ~30 turns a chapter they need to be glued together 100%, which really holds back Finn's combat, especially in Ch2 as Lachesis's Cross Knights get in the way too much. It could be done, yes, but I don't intend to mash "End Turn" chilling at Orgahill any longer than it takes Dew to find the Wind Sword. I do want to try Finn/Lachesis some day, but for the type of Ranked play I have in mind, I can't justify it to myself.

Holyn x Bridget

You know, I'm always hearing about how good this pairing supposedly is, but to be honest, I never quite got it. Sure, Holyn can pass down some good stats as well as an extra rank in swords to Patty, but does that really outweigh the advantages of Bargain? I don't think so.

While Patty without Holyn has to struggle just as much as everyone else does to hold on to the Elite Ring, Patty can use that and whatever else she can afford to Arena up with no repercussions whatsoever. Between the Sleep Sword, the Prayer Sword, and whatever other great swords you can give her, I can't see her ever needing the extra boost to swords.

The ability to use the Hero Sword makes everything better. At least, this is the main draw of it for me. On units with piss poor strength, Luna > Sol too. Bargain is an interesting point, and I was seriously considering setting Dew up with someone just because of that, but I couldn't figure the right candidate. Didn't want to do Dew x Lachesis, because of lack of pursuit, though Charisma bots are always useful even if they can't double... Maybe someday. Considered Dew x Ayra, but was told Noish was probably better for her.

Levin x Tiltyu

This one is probably so that you can have early Holsety with Arthur. That's what I'm assuming anyways. However, Arthur doesn't have enough move to take full advantage of Holsety anyways, so it's really not all it's cracked up to be in the long run. And if it's a question of whether or not he needs it, I don't believe he does with Wrath on his side.

If you really want someone who can just nuke the game, just get Sigurd a Hero Sword, get a whole bunch of kills on it, pass it down to Celice along with the Leg Ring, Elite Ring, and whatever other rings you think would be good on him, and watch Celice grow into a virtual meat grinder.

No, the one who really needs help out of the pair is Tinny, and I believe Azel benefits her more than Levin does anyways, for I believe Azel gives her a boost to magic, helping her use Wrath to it's fullest effect.

Sety doesn't have that big a move advantage on base Arthur either...

Arthur: Move advantage when Sety doesn't exist.

Sety: Move advantage from mid-Chapter 8 until Arthur promotes. For sake of argument I will assume base of Chapter 9.

Arthur: Move advantage from Chapter 9 on.

Non-Levin Sety doesn't get hit by the speed wrap-around glitch as well.

I'm a bit concerned for Tinny, but... we'll see. Levin!Tinny can only be better than Claude!Tinny, which I had last time.

And don't worry, I'm planning on pimping Celice out. Life Ring, and Leg Ring, and Elite Ring for sure, not sure if others. There may not be crit on the Hero Sword, though, time shall tell.

Arthur can take down Johalvier's army by himself with Holsety allowing Fee to go save the villages without having to worry about him getting killed. The rest of the army can then focus on Johan (recruited in one turn) and then move forward.

There's also a path through the mountains that he can take to reach Rivough. Chances are he can even reach Rivough before Celice and get some exp from Danan, who begs to be abused.

I'm actually contemplating recruiting Johalvier this time around. Not yet for certain. This idea is interesting too, though.

AAAA rank is all about maximizing non-combat EXP (arena is not combat exp)

Which is why I ran Ardan/Sylvia. This lets you use the Sleep Sword/Ambush combo to run Leen through the arena with ease (mine got to like level 26 or something ridiculous), and Lex/Briggid's Patty can ALSO Sleep Sword/Ambush. Lex!Patty is probably better since Patty has more trouble getting EXP other than the arena, Corple can staff spam for ez exp, and Elite!Faval hits level 28 from the arena alone.

Ambush Sleep!Sword is a tempting combo, I have to admit. I don't want to do exactly the same pairings you did though, as it would make our playthroughs redundant...

There are ranked runs, in which you just meet the minimum... Quite frankly, I think it's doable with with any team...

Then there are those ranked runs in which the player further pushes the restrictions up. Can I/he do the same(gain more experience, protect castles, avoid deaths) in even fewer turns. That's what y'all are debating here.

Speaking of, my plan for this is to try to maximize experience for everybody. While I may give up on Cuan reaching level 30 in time, I'm still aiming as that for my goal for everybody else. I will probably fail, due to the fact that I'm unwilling to sacrifice too many turns to do so. We shall see.

[FionordeQuester]

Well, in any case, sorry about that fallacy of Holsety not being taken full advantage of on Arthur when he has the same move as Sety. Don't know what I was thinking.

Good luck. I've already almost completed my redoing of Chapter 1, and you may be a little surprised about what I decide to do. Interested in watching?