Darros Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm sure I mentioned something about crossbows in my last post... Perhaps you failed to notice it? You make it sound like crossbows are good. Really, they aren't too great. An axe is certainly a lot better than a silly crossbow. The only things crossbows have is 1-2 range. Their might isn't anything to brag about. And Boyd can use crossbows too if you really want (though a Hand Axe is better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Find enemies that aren't mages that Shinon can kill with crossbows. 28 atk is horrible. You do know that archers have innate critical, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'm sure I mentioned something about crossbows in my last post... Perhaps you failed to notice it? I noticed the mention. I failed to notice the point. It's too limited and not strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krad Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 You do know that archers have innate critical, right? You do know that Shinon has around 10-15 crit on most enemies at most, which means that if he doubles, he only has a ~27 chance of killing an enemy if only one crit is needed? If he was attack by 4 warriors on Enemy Phase, we can only expect him to kill 1. Meanwhile, Boyd with some BEXP and maybe the Speedwing kills all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 You do know that archers have innate critical, right? Well, relying on critical hits in RD is a subpar strategy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) You guys are so smart :) 2 tiers makes sense but I'd argue for 4 tiers Haar and Titania don't need anything, they could use it but don't need it. Theyre pretty much free > everyone else. Then for the 4th tier reserved for Lyre, Lehran, and Oliver imo. Also I'm leaning more on Astrid > Soren, based on her class and rescue staff can be hammerned. Although I can see him above. Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You guys are so smart :) 2 tiers makes sense but I'd argue for 4 tiers Haar and Titania don't need anything, they could use it but don't need it. Theyre pretty much free > everyone else. Then for the 4th tier reserved for Lyre, Lehran, and Oliver imo. Also I'm leaning more on Astrid > Soren, based on her class and rescue staff can be hammerned. Although I can see him above. Haar > Titania, though. Killing everything with flight > killing everything with a horse. The various ledges and such that hinder Titania only make it worse. Also, are you going to move Boyd back over Shinon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm convinced that though he costs more than Shinnon, Boyd is better and his cost turns into profit. I also agree with Haar, flight is better. BTW what about Meg & Aran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Also I'm leaning more on Astrid > Soren, based on her class and rescue staff can be hammerned. I'm still not seeing it... Astrid's base stats are laughable and her growths suck too (not to mention Soren has more availability). Edited February 21, 2011 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 BTW what about Meg & Aran? Upper Mid is too high for Meg. Her stats aren't really the problem (though her Spd caps are quite annoying, even in EM), her mobility is. It's worse than Mages. And then she has Swords, lolE Lances, and eventually lolE Axes. A Sword lock isn't such a problem for units like Trueblades who has awesome crit, but shitty 2 range without any bonuses and only minimum extra weapon ranks on promotion doesn't really cut it. I'm still not seeing it... Astrid's base stats are laughable and her growths suck too (not to mention Soren has more availability). Well, with Blossom her growths are HP: 79.75 Str: 64 Mag: 36 Skl: 69.75 Spd: 64 Lck: 91 Def: 51 Res: 75 A total 531, which is pretty insane, and she'll have a normal experience growth due to Paragon. Then the previously argued aspects of Soren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Astrid doesn't exist for most of part 3 and there's no guarantee that she will be able to keep Paragon to herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Astrid doesn't exist for most of part 3 and there's no guarantee that she will be able to keep Paragon to herself. Paragon turns everyone who matters from killface to killface. Who's taking it away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Paragon turns everyone who matters from killface to killface. Who's taking it away? If Astrid is the only unit that's not killface when she's around, she's bad by default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If Astrid is the only unit that's not killface when she's around, she's bad by default. I didn't say she wasn't bad. I said she's > Soren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You do know that archers have innate critical, right? You mean that unreliable critical you'r most likely having to reset abuse to achieve? Well, with Blossom her growths are HP: 79.75 Str: 64 Mag: 36 Skl: 69.75 Spd: 64 Lck: 91 Def: 51 Res: 75 A total 531, which is pretty insane, and she'll have a normal experience growth due to Paragon. Then the previously argued aspects of Soren. Oh, I was looking for those (growths). Thank you. 80 Do you know the exact formula behind them? :( Paragon turns everyone who matters from killface to killface. Who's taking it away? Especially with EM's loltastic Exp/BEXP gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh, I was looking for those (growths). Thank you. 80 Do you know the exact formula behind them? :( It rolls the growth twice. If the first one fails, you get another chance. Also, Sothe should probably be > Ike by virtue of him being better than his competition for longer, including a few maps where he is far and away the best unit while Ike has none. I'd put him between Titania and Oscar as the list looks now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Soren can theoretically do it. My problem is can he actually do anything? 3-1 has enemies coming out of multiple areas, but otherwise he's too slow to keep up with everyone. And you left out 3-11 and 3-E. Then I don't believe that she "is not all that great" at third tier in EM, unless you mean you rigged her for bad levels, especially since I've used her myself plenty often, including in EM. 3-11 is a non-issue. We have Jill, Haar, Tanith, Marcia, Janaff, Ulki, and Sigrun who dominate the map. Both Astrid and Soren will be left behind. The same goes for 3-E. By 'not that great', I mean she ORKOed everything except SMs and Generals at 1-range. This is worse than what Soren is doing. There's also the problem that Paragon or no Paragon, she's not going to gain that many levels over the course of her availability and will probably need to take a lot of BEXP, which hurts her stats and is unaffected by Blossom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Well, with Blossom her growths are HP: 79.75 Str: 64 Mag: 36 Skl: 69.75 Spd: 64 Lck: 91 Def: 51 Res: 75 A total 531, which is pretty insane, and she'll have a normal experience growth due to Paragon. Then the previously argued aspects of Soren. But she can't have Blossom until 3-11 at the earliest. And before that her chip damage is even worse than Soren's. Edited February 21, 2011 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 3-11 is a non-issue. We have Jill, Haar, Tanith, Marcia, Janaff, Ulki, and Sigrun who dominate the map. Both Astrid and Soren will be left behind. The same goes for 3-E. The same goes for every other map Soren is in, but that isn't always the case for Astrid. This is worse than what Soren is doing. I like how you don't mention what that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Leaving Paragon on Astrid is like giving Boyd the speedwings, no one really wants it or needs it unless its one of the CRK. She has alot more potential than Soren as a combatant in easy mode and its all because of para-blossom. The only other that could do that are laguz and Geoffrey. In 2-3 she can almost kill on her own with a killer bow. Leaving BEXP out of it, they're about tied experience wise because he can't face many enemies. Including BEXP in the argument and she's beating him. Although Soren does have more availability than she does which is kind of convincing ^^'. Just cover the holes in 3-11 and theres less of a problem for Astrid moving around. Sure Soren can be ferried, but if you allow one of the fliers to cover the hole/traps surely more units can cross? Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) The same goes for every other map Soren is in, but that isn't always the case for Astrid. Soren is not going to be left behind in 4-1 and 4-4 which are not very large maps. Astrid is going to be left behind in 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 because she takes movement penalties and is simply worthless in 4-5. In the only relevant map in 4-E, 4-E-1, Astrid's increased movement is not that great when you consider she fails to ORKO Generals. I like how you don't mention what that is. Clearly you need me to spell this out exactly. Astrid fails to ORKO many regular enemies at 1-2 range and completely fails to ORKO Swordmasters and Generals. Soren does not fail to ORKO Generals and anything he ORKOes, he does at 1-2 range. Clearly, Soren is at an advantage. Just cover the holes in 3-11 and theres less of a problem for Astrid moving around. Sure Soren can be ferried, but if you allow one of the fliers to cover the hole/traps surely more units can cross? Fliers are inevitably going to be at the frontlines of this map. Mounted units will struggle to keep up. Soren can be ferried, but we probably wouldn't bother. Edited February 21, 2011 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I didn't say she wasn't bad. I said she's > Soren. If Soren is "killfacing" for 3-P through 3-11 and Astrid is not existing/sucking and then spends the rest of Part 3 playing catch up and Part 4 getting fucked by terrain penalties, guess who wins? Should I have said "Astrid loses by default" to make it more clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) If Soren is "killfacing" for 3-P through 3-11 and Astrid is not existing/sucking and then spends the rest of Part 3 playing catch up and Part 4 getting fucked by terrain penalties, guess who wins? Should I have said "Astrid loses by default" to make it more clear? She doesn't necessarily have terrain penalties in Part 4 though if she's in Ike's route. 4-4 yes but rescue staff can be used for that. @ Anouleth in my run I used all the paladdins ^_^. If its worth mentioning their move was highly useful in 4-E-4, 4-E-5 and even 4-E-3 for their move, canto abilities making it flexible to get refreshed. They saved me rescue staff uses. Edited February 21, 2011 by Queen_Elincia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Soren is not going to be left behind in 4-1 and 4-4 which are not very large maps. Astrid is going to be left behind in 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 because she takes movement penalties and is simply worthless in 4-5. In the only relevant map in 4-E, 4-E-1, Astrid's increased movement is not that great when you consider she fails to ORKO Generals. Now Soren's problem is lack of ability. Unless you slowed down for him or plowed him with mountains of BEXP, he'll suck in part 4 pretty badly. And I don't believe that a ParaBlossomed Astrid can't kill 4-E-1 Generals in EM. Clearly you need me to spell this out exactly. Astrid fails to ORKO many regular enemies at 1-2 range and completely fails to ORKO Swordmasters and Generals. Soren does not fail to ORKO Generals and anything he ORKOes, he does at 1-2 range. Clearly, Soren is at an advantage. Actually, Soren fails to kill just about everything because he can't get to them. So Astrid is at an advantage. If Soren is "killfacing" for 3-P through 3-11 and Astrid is not existing/sucking and then spends the rest of Part 3 playing catch up and Part 4 getting fucked by terrain penalties, guess who wins? Should I have said "Astrid loses by default" to make it more clear? The problem is that Soren is not part of "everyone who matters" for all the reasons I've been arguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Unless you slowed down for him or plowed him with mountains of BEXP, he'll suck in part 4 pretty badly. The same could be said for Astrid, so what's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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