May 21st so called doomsday thingy

[Aoibara]

Not sure if this should be in serious disscussion, but I think not.

Heard of that stupid thing?

Its just silly...

[Zanarkin]

If you want some discussion going on you might as well expand on its theory. This is in the right place btw.

I find such claims ridiculous. Trying to predict the end of the world just comes from superstitions and silly thing like that. Things to which i have lost the so called "faith" in them.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Jhen Mohran

[TatsuyaSuou]

Yeah that end of the world stuff is just to scare people... besides somebody says the world is going to end every two months >_>

Edited May 7, 2011 by chubby8pie

[Phoenix Wright]

When does the world end? In four billion years after it gets eaten by the sun.

When does life end? Who knows? I can't fathom why "prophets" think they know when it'll end. I mean, every one of them thinks they're right, yet they all have different dates on when it'll happen. It's all bullshit.

[Zanarkin]

When does the world end? In four billion years after it gets eaten by the sun.

I may be wrong but doesn't the corpse of the earth remain? If so, then it technically would end until its ripped apart by the big rip or we go into the big crunch. Life on Earth however could end at any second from asteroids/comets or neutron star exploding, or mars is taken out of orbit and comes crashing into Earth (don't think thats likely). Or a black hole swallows us. Or we go into an ice age that last for centuries, or we kill ourselves in a nuclear war and everything in the planet. Lol so many ways for life on earth to die. Although, not everything would die from most of the things i mentioned.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Jhen Mohran

[Just call me AL]

Was the message you heard like "On May 21st, great and holy God will decend from Heaven and pass his judgement upon the world."?

Anyways, I've made an FFTF topic somewhat regarding this matter. And personally, May 21st, October 21st, I don't care. Both 2011 Doomsdays seem farfetched to me, and definitely sillier than the December 21st, 2012 hype. (Read: Most of the people saying this are thinking they can figure out when Judgement Day will happen just by reading select paragraphs in The Bible, and by using numerology.) There's all these plans companies have going with deadlines set in 2013 and 2014. I don't think those companies would be going through with those plans if they believed Ragnarok was gonna happen on one of those dates.

The sad part is that some of my classmates in my LAL class sounded pretty certain about it happening. (Meanwhile in my 2nd period class, just replace May 21, 2011 with December 21, 2012.)

Great, all this talk of Armed Forces Day 2011 supposedly (and I use that term loosely) being Doomsday makes me want to make a motivational that sorta pokes fun at the proposed reasoning for the possibility (or lack therof) of it happening.

Edited May 8, 2011 by LittleAl

[Fire Emblem Addict]

Well I wouldn't believe unless empirical evidence exists to suggest such a thing. To quote Carl Sagan: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

[Phoenix Wright]

I may be wrong but doesn't the corpse of the earth remain? If so, then it technically would end until its ripped apart by the big rip or we go into the big crunch. Life on Earth however could end at any second from asteroids/comets or neutron star exploding, or mars is taken out of orbit and comes crashing into Earth (don't think thats likely). Or a black hole swallows us. Or we go into an ice age that last for centuries, or we kill ourselves in a nuclear war and everything in the planet. Lol so many ways for life on earth to die. Although, not everything would die from most of the things i mentioned.

The sun will grow large enough to swallow us whole. The earth will melt, as far as I know.

Well, not really to any of that other stuff.

[Fire Emblem Addict]

The sun will grow large enough to swallow us whole. The earth will melt, as far as I know.

Well, not really to any of that other stuff.

Hmm from what I read (I forgot where but I think "The Science of Doctor Who") the Sun may retract after it loses enough of its mass (due to structural instability) just before the Earth ends up swallowed. Even still, the Earth will probably be a blob of goo since everything will get melted.

[Zanarkin]

Right i forgot the sun is this hot ball of gas

[Magical CC]

Hmm from what I read (I forgot where but I think "The Science of Doctor Who") the Sun may retract after it loses enough of its mass (due to structural instability) just before the Earth ends up swallowed. Even still, the Earth will probably be a blob of goo since everything will get melted.

Yes, it will certainly swallow the three nearest planets before losing it's mass according to the scientists. Our Earth is the third nearest. But dont worry, the heat will melt down the other planets as well, I guess that Sun system is doomed without the Sun.

And who care about the doomsday? We already have to many things to worry about and all of those are real stuff like love quarrels, price of foods, malfunction cars...etc...Apocalypse sounds fun at first but it's getting boring really fast.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Ga-rei Sulley

[Just call me AL]

Just a thought I had a while ago. When May 21st rolls over, and nothing happens (a likely scenario if you ask me), I wonder how would Camping feel. Do you guys think he'll actually feel stupider than he did in September 1994? Or will he be all "Whoops! I miscalculated the date the Rapture is destined to happen. It actually gonna be this date here! XX/XX/20XX!" like he is this time? I mean, sure doomsayers will always come out of the woodwork here and there, but still!

[Ragnell]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/laurilebo/4602/may_21_rapture_scheduled_for_6_p.m._/

Poor Japanese people. Always the first to get hit.

Also, I'm beginning to wonder if anyone parading around this nonsense has actually read the bible.

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Of course, they have their flimsy excuses regarding this, but none of it is supported biblically. And apparently this isn't the first time that one of the major proponents of the idea has been wrong about a date, so...

If I was God, I would make the rapture happen on May 22, at like 12:01 am. Just for the lulz. Maybe that's why I'm not God.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Ragnell

[Dr.Sholes]

Well, if you believe in the Bible then look no further! A biblical day is a lot more than 24 hours if you think about it God made earth from start to humans in 6 days. When you look at it from a scientific standpoint it took billions of years for this to happen so 1 day would definitely be at least millions of years. In the good Samaritan story the Samaritan says he'll return in 1 day, the Samaritan is supposed to symbolize Jesus. If he'll return in 1 day starting about 2008 or so years ago we still have a long way to go. Another thing to think about is God made humans on day 6 on day 7 he rested, what happened on day 8? Jesus? If so is day 9 the end of the world?

[Fire Emblem Addict]

Didn't it say somewhere in the Bible that 1000 years for humans is 1 day for god?

EDIT: Yeah I think its from Peter 3:8

Edited May 20, 2011 by Fire Emblem Addict

[Dr.Sholes]

that still doesn't much sense. The second coming would have been appx. year 1003 if that were true. :/

[Fire Emblem Addict]

"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"

Right from the Bible itself. Apparently, this is also the same passage that Young Earth Creationists use to justify saying that the Earth is 6000 years old. Anyways, its already 2am GMT on May 21 and we're still here. Looks like another doomsday prophecy gets busted.... Will they ever stop with this madness? Can't wait to see those 2012ers' faces on January 1, 2013. Wonder what kind of BS excuse they'll come up with.

[Zanarkin]

"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day"

Right from the Bible itself. Apparently, this is also the same passage that Young Earth Creationists use to justify saying that the Earth is 6000 years old. Anyways, its already 2am GMT on May 21 and we're still here. Looks like another doomsday prophecy gets busted.... Will they ever stop with this madness? Can't wait to see those 2012ers' faces on January 1, 2013. Wonder what kind of BS excuse they'll come up with.

The funny thing is that there is no reasoning behind 2012. Lol. The mayan calendar is a circle within a big circle within a bigger circle people. Circles do not end. They repeat themselves over time.

Also good story is good. Long, but good.

An Atheist on Judgement Day

The line seemed to stretch back forever. Hundreds of millions of souls, waiting patiently for their turn before the throne. The date... Well, the day is Judgment Day, so you won't find it on any calendar. The queue of people winds its way down the mountain, through the valley and off into the far distance. Everybody in the queue can see the final destination at the mountain peak. A hundred miles away, they can see it perfectly clearly. And they wait, moving forward a couple of steps at a time. Towards God, and the Decision.

At the head of the we find a young Christian, wearing an expression of awe and joy. Behind him, an atheist, looking slightly astonished, examining a leaf she has picked from a nearby bush, trying to decide if it is real or not. Heaven, she thinks, should be whiter, with more dry ice swirling about; not look like a Welsh hillside on a hot day.

The Christian steps forward for judgment.

"Hello Martin". God's voice is calm and gentle as He speaks.

"Erm.. Hello. Lord". Martin's voice is nervous, as a dozen emotions fight for room in his mind at once.

"This is it. This is where I decide what shall happen to you, Martin. In life, you were a Christian". It was a statement, not a question.

"I was, Lord. I still am. I have been all my life. I have dedicated myself to your service."

"Tell me, Martin. Why were you a Christian? Why did you believe in me?"

"Why? Well... Because you are God! I've always believed in you."

"That is not what I want to know. Why did you believe?"

"Because I knew it was true. You were always there for me. You helped me through the bad times. You answered my prayers. You gave me the strength and courage to get through life. I could feel your presence with me all the time."

"No."

"Pardon, Lord?"

"I said no, Martin. I have never helped you. You seemed to be doing perfectly alright by yourself. I heard your prayers, but never answered a single one. Your belief in me definitely helped you on occasion, but I have never intervened in your life. Certainly, you gave me credit for all the good times, but they were your own doing, not mine. You did not feel my presence, because it cannot be felt. The only actual proof you have that I exist at all is here and now. Again, tell me why you believed."

"I.. I had faith, Lord. Since I was a child I have been to church, prayed and sang every Sunday. My faith in you never wavered. Even when my mother died, I had faith that it was your will, that it was a blessing from you that she passed peacefully. I was raised to believe in you, and as I grew I read the Bible for myself, and learnt of your miracles, and all the saints and martyrs, and the good done in your name. I read the works of great philosophers and they merely strengthened my faith. I knew it was true. "

"No, Martin. Your mother died of natural causes, and she died peacefully because of the actions of the hospital. I watched and saw, but that is all. As for the rest - the saints, martyrs and philosophers had similar reasons for their belief in me, just as dictators and murderers have had. People have done great good and great harm in my name, and in the names of a thousand false gods. The Bible was written about me, not by me, and was written by people who had similar reasons as you for their belief, just as a thousand other Holy Books have been written about the false gods, or different versions of myself. I ask for the third and final time. Why did you believe in me?"

Martin looked shocked and ashen, but pulled himself together. His Lord was testing him, and he had lived his entire life for this moment.

"I believed because I could feel in my heart it was true. You sent your son to die for us, and I gladly accepted Him as my saviour. I.. I just knew it was true, and now that I see you, my faith has been vindicated. I no longer need to believe - I can see for myself the truth and majesty of my religion."

Quietly, God spoke again. "Martin, you have impressed me". He paused.

"But... not enough. You believe because you were taught to believe. You believe because you mistakenly attribute to me anything positive that has happened in your life, and discount anything negative. You believe because it is comforting to believe, and because you are frightened of the consequences of my not existing. You believe because... you believe. I'm sorry, Martin, but there is no place for you here."

God gestured briefly with his fingers, and Martin vanished. His shadow lingered where he had stood, fading rapidly to nothingness.

The atheist, somewhat shaken by what she had just seen, stepped forward.

"Hello Eve. I like that name."

"Ah. Hello, God. Thanks", said Eve, not entirely sure how to address a being she had, until now, considered fictional.

"Yes, you may call me God. Eve, in life you were an atheist. You doubted my existence, even objecting to the very concept". Again, a statement, not a question.

"Yes, I did. Clearly, I was mistaken."

"Clearly. Tell me, are you still an atheist?"

"I suppose not. I'm not a Christian, Jew or anything else. I guess I'd have to be called an involuntary theist. Ah ha ha", Eve laughed nervously, hoping the very real and solid-looking deity before her had a good sense of humour.

"Mmm... Tell me, Eve. Why did you not believe in me?". God's voice was kind and gentle once more.

"At one point I did. I was raised as a Christian, and often went to church, and prayed every night before bed. When I was feeling down I would read the Bible. The act of reading it seemed to comfort me, even though the words themselves didn't seem much help. I think, like Martin, I believed because I believed."

"And then you lost your faith? You decided I did not exist, and you knew better than those around you? You knew better than your pastor and family?" The voice was losing its kindly edge a little.

"That is one way of looking at it, yes. What I believed did not seem to fit with other things I knew. The Bible clearly could not be literally true, word for word. I knew from biology and paleontology that humans had evolved like all other life, and were not special creations. How life or the universe began, I still don't know, but could not just merely accept 'God did it' as an explanation. I learned about other religions, and how they all claimed a monopoly on truth, happiness and morality. I saw the good done in your name, but I also saw the oppression, genocide and wars. I saw that if people were in need, it was up to us to deal with it, not to rely on heavenly aid.". Eve felt a little braver, but was expecting the traditional thunderbolt any moment. The people behind her, now at the head of the queue, were slowly moving backwards, trying not to draw attention to themselves.

"Yet here you are, before your God, on the final Day of Judgment. Why should I allow you in - a heretic, a disbeliever, an infidel - when your predecessor, devout and faithful, full of love for me, was consigned to Oblivion? Tell me why. Justify your entry to my Paradise."

Eve straightened up, looking God in the face. "Why should you let me in? Because I am better person than you."

If Eve had looked round, she would have seen the entire line of souls, perfectly still and wide-eyed, staring at her in shock.

"What did you say?", enquired God. His voice, though barely audible, caused tremors in the mountain.

Surprised at still being alive, her mouth dry, Eve continued. "I said, because I am a better person. You have shown it yourself already. You told Martin that you watched as his mother became ill and died. You destroyed him for believing for no good reason, when his whole life had been shaped by that belief. Your preachers on Earth encourage unquestioning faith, yet you do not tell us whether that is what you want. You give people no rational basis for belief, and then when they make up their own that is not good enough for you. You listen to our prayers, yet do not answer, leaving people to rationalise events for themselves. People kill and slaughter over trivial differences in doctrine, and you look on. In the churches and temples raised in your glory, children are mentally and physically abused - in your so-called House! All over the world, throughout history, people have murdered each other for believing the wrong thing about God, for believing in the wrong God, or for not believing in any God. The poorest and most helpless people are relentlessly targeted, being told to give what little they have now, for the promise of eternal bliss later. When a person is at his lowest ebb, that is when the smiling missionaries appear, knowing that his life will probably get better naturally and they can give you the credit. In your name, the ends justify the means as long as souls are saved". Eve paused for breath, and continued.

"And you? All-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing? You just sit here and you watch it all... Any person in this line, had they your power, would show greater compassion and morality. You may be God, but you are far from Godliness."

God smiled. "Are you finished? Good. Eve, you have impressed me". He paused. Eve held her breath, shoulders tensing.

"You have impressed me a great deal. You may have believed in me for all the wrong reasons, but you disbelieved for the right reasons. You led a good life, and used the intelligence I give to everybody in the correct way. Even though you came to a conclusion about me that was hopelessly wrong, you came to it in a way that cannot be faulted. You may pass into paradise, Eve, with my blessing."

Eve did not step forward. Instead, she spoke once more. "No, I will not".

"No? You refuse Heaven? You defy my will?" The smile had left God's face again.

"Do you think I would want to spend one more minute, let alone eternity, in your company? You allow people to suffer, sometimes for their entire lives, for no purpose, and then judge them on their reaction. You hide yourself from the world and allow your creations to persecute each other over differing interpretations of the lack of evidence. You see all the pain and ignorance caused in your name, and just sit there as this queue grows daily? And then you have the audacity to punish good people for believing in you 'for the wrong reasons'?"

"Eve. Enough of this. The gates to Paradise are open to you. Be silent now, and enter."

"No. If it is a choice between oblivion and an eternity with a monster like you, I gladly choose oblivion. I ask only one thing, before you destroy me."

"And what is that?" asked God, getting impatient.

"That, if you can, you look me in the eyes as you do it."

Shortly afterwards, the next person in the queue stepped towards the top of the mountain, and Judgment.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Jhen Mohran

[Fire Emblem Addict]

Wow that's a very good story! I loved the irony of it all (the Christian getting sent to hell and the atheist being offered passage into heaven).

[Kintenbo]

Well, if you believe in the Bible then look no further! A biblical day is a lot more than 24 hours if you think about it God made earth from start to humans in 6 days. When you look at it from a scientific standpoint it took billions of years for this to happen so 1 day would definitely be at least millions of years. In the good Samaritan story the Samaritan says he'll return in 1 day, the Samaritan is supposed to symbolize Jesus. If he'll return in 1 day starting about 2008 or so years ago we still have a long way to go. Another thing to think about is God made humans on day 6 on day 7 he rested, what happened on day 8? Jesus? If so is day 9 the end of the world?

Alright, the following may lead to a lot of ridicule or confusion towards me, but here is my honest thoughts:

One should be careful trying to compromise the Bible with man's scientific speculation. There are many reasons why it would be illogical to use the gap theory. First off, the Bible has death not existing until sin came into the world through Adam and Eve. If a Christian were to believe evolution, there's a problem from the get go, if they believe we evolved from an ape-like ancestor. Also, that would have meant death was around before Adam and Eve. That would also lead to questions on how sin actually came to be. If the creation of the Earth as God put it is metaphorical, then Adam and Even are metaphorical. If Adam and Eve are metaphorical, then their deceit by Satan, thus leading to the sin curse, is metaphorical. If our sin curse is metaphorical, then Jesus died for our metaphorical sins, and I doubt God would do that for a mere metaphor. So, logically, one must either reject man's "billions of years" or God's "6,000 years". I take the God's word over man's word, personally.

Now, to comment on the Samaritan story, that clearly is trying to emphasize "love your enemy". The lawyer that Jesus was telling the story to asked the question, "who is my neighbor". What Jesus answered was pretty confounded from the lawyer's standpoint. Samaria and Israel never got along, especially at that time, so saying that a Samaritan is essentially to be a neighbor was heavy stuff on his part, thus revealing how much mankind is inherently incapable of following God's law. So, I'd say that interpretation is a little far fetched.

That's my opinion on the matter, take it as you will.

[Zanarkin]

So, logically, one must either reject man's "billions of years" or God's "6,000 years". I take the God's word over man's word, personally.

The bible was written by man. It was not God. How can you be sure these men who wrote the bible weren't being delusional? Or merely just story telling to entertain young ones? How about just being tired of asking big questions and just leaving it to a God? Its much easier to say "God did it", than to wrap your head around something almost, if not, impossible to understand. Like the creation of the universe.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Jhen Mohran

[Fire Emblem Addict]

Alright, the following may lead to a lot of ridicule or confusion towards me, but here is my honest thoughts:

One should be careful trying to compromise the Bible with man's scientific speculation. There are many reasons why it would be illogical to use the gap theory. First off, the Bible has death not existing until sin came into the world through Adam and Eve. If a Christian were to believe evolution, there's a problem from the get go, if they believe we evolved from an ape-like ancestor. Also, that would have meant death was around before Adam and Eve. That would also lead to questions on how sin actually came to be. If the creation of the Earth as God put it is metaphorical, then Adam and Even are metaphorical. If Adam and Eve are metaphorical, then their deceit by Satan, thus leading to the sin curse, is metaphorical. If our sin curse is metaphorical, then Jesus died for our metaphorical sins, and I doubt God would do that for a mere metaphor. So, logically, one must either reject man's "billions of years" or God's "6,000 years". I take the God's word over man's word, personally.

Now, to comment on the Samaritan story, that clearly is trying to emphasize "love your enemy". The lawyer that Jesus was telling the story to asked the question, "who is my neighbor". What Jesus answered was pretty confounded from the lawyer's standpoint. Samaria and Israel never got along, especially at that time, so saying that a Samaritan is essentially to be a neighbor was heavy stuff on his part, thus revealing how much mankind is inherently incapable of following God's law. So, I'd say that interpretation is a little far fetched.

That's my opinion on the matter, take it as you will.

Are you saying that the Earth is 6000 years old? If so, please provide evidence to support this (saying that "the Bible said so" is not a valid argument unless you can somehow show that the Bible is infallible, which you can't). All the evidence suggests that its at least 4 billion years old. I would like to hear your side of the story.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Fire Emblem Addict

[Kintenbo]

The bible was written by man. It was not God. How can you be sure these men who wrote the bible weren't being delusional? Or merely just story telling to entertain young ones? How about just being tired of asking big questions and just leaving it to a God?

God inspired man, prophets, to be particular, to write. God told them what to write. If it is merely delusion, then my delusion seems to be more of a benefit than harmful! Of course my beliefs must rely on the absolute truthfulness of the Bible! That's where faith comes in.

Now, let's go on the other side! How do you know Charles Darwin wasn't delusional when he proclaimed lesser organisms progressively became more complex organisms. You might say, "there is evidence in fossils", but that's up to interpretation. One must have faith that a said fossil really proves that one organism became another. How do you know that the fossil is just a variation of an already existing species, a certain breed that has since went extinct? Do fossils really prove that some fish eventually evolved into amphibians, then some amphibians to reptiles, then some reptiles to mammals and birds? Can it really be unquestionably proven?

All and all, everybody believes in some sort of absolute truth. Science can help with some truths, but only the ones we can observe directly, I believe.

[shroudening]

My Imput:

Humans are not superior to other animals in the grand scheme of things. The problem with religions is that they suggest that humans are superior to other life forms ("God created humans in his own image"). Also, the fact that a religious person believes that one can go to heaven or hell for eternity for whether they "believed" or not is immoral in my opinion, because that means that a good person, who doesn't believe in a particular religion, is among those who are sent to hell.

My point? We don't get to know anything about how we are going to die until it happens. These predictions are pointless, and people who make them are either stubbornly devout to their religion, or are just trying to get attention to themselves.

Why is it that people fall for the same crap every time someone proposes an end of the world. We've been falling for this since 1000 AD (One of the first known end of the world predictions).

@FE Addict: He's probably got his statistics reversed, as I doubt he believes that man is older than God.

@Kintenbo: You do realize that much of what science does disapproves of religious ideas. How do we know that Charles Darwin wasn't delusional? We don't know for sure, but we do know that Evolution is as close to factual as anything else we know in science. You would have to argue that every single person that worked on proving the theory of evolution was delusional, and that every piece of evidence that they have found is false, that being extremely hard to do.

About absolute truths... How does one know that a truth can be absolute? We could only know if we knew almost everything that there is to know, and live long enough to see if what we believe to be truth is definite.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Isaac55

[Fire Emblem Addict]

Unquestionable proof? Only mathematicians can give you that I'm afraid. However, one does not need "unquestionable proof" of something to know that it is most likely true. For example, do you believe that germs cause disease? Of course you do, since it would be foolish to believe otherwise. However, how can you provide an "unquestionable proof" of this right now? You can point to empirical evidence of course, that organism exposed to germs tend to get sick, and after the germs are killed, they tend to get better. This is not a proof, but the evidence is strong enough that anyone doubting it would be quite foolish. There's nothing wrong with skepticism, but one must be open minded enough to look at the evidence. You're right in saying that scientists can't say whether something is absolutely true or not, only that the balance of probability suggests that so and so is true. So far, all the evidence we have found agrees with the theory of evolution (and there's LOTS), there hasn't been a single piece of evidence that contradicted it. Therefore, we accept it as fact. Anyhow, this is much better than creationism, which has absolutely no evidence in support of it whatsoever.

If analogies help, consider this to be analogous to a court case, where a suspect is being prosecuted for murder. The suspect's fingerprints were found on the gun, his DNA was at the scene of the crime, there was even a video of him entering the victim's house before the murder happened. Is this proof that he killed the victim? No, because there's always the small chance that he got framed. However, any sane jury would find him guilty of the crime and put him into prison.

Hope this clears things up!

As for Darwin being delusional, it doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter if he was on an acid trip when he came up with the theory. All that matters is that his theory is logical, supported by loads of evidence, and can explain many natural phenomena. That's what makes it a good theory, not the mental state of the person who came up with it.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Fire Emblem Addict