Multiple tier list idea

[Fenrir]

I posted reasons as to why i feel that way about the latter, if you could provide a better reason than that then I'd absolutely love to hear it. I'm open to suggestions, not condescending remarks that some smartasses like to make in order to make me feel like a dumbass.

Have you never been on the internet before?

[Lord Raven]

I have and I prefer to keep that shit out of this thread. If you're going to post, you may as well be more constructive than that.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Anouleth]

Even if you ignore Aran's potential to be trained (which you shouldn't), he's still superior to Ilyana. While he can't deal as much damage at 2-range, he can deal at least as much damage at 1 range with an Iron Lance forge and can provide walling utility, most notably in 1-4. And he has part 3 to potshot, unlike Ilyana. When compared with Leonardo, untrained Aran lacks Leonardo's early chip and has an inferior part 3, but he is better in their shared part 1 chapters.

Ilyana walls just as well as Aran in 1-4. Both are 2RKOed by all enemies except for Pain who OHKOes Ilyana. But Ilyana has a lower chance to be criticalled by Cats since she does not get doubled by them.

I think that Edward should be above Tormod. Edward has 1-P, 1-1, 1-2, against Tormod's 1-7, 1-8, and 1-E. But Edward also has potential to be useful in Part 3.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Anouleth

[RNG Princess]

btw howcome potentials are considered for some characters but not for others?

[Darros]

I would argue Meg > Fiona. At least Meg has a couple chapters while deploying her is free, and she's more helpful when she starts than Fiona, despite both being definately bottom tier material.

[Lord Raven]

I'm not sure, I'm not factoring in that potential very much at all. Not enough to make it any sort of determining factor in this list. I'm swayed about Edward > Tormod simply because of Edward's early chapters nullifying Tormod's later chapters, but his potential is more or less the fondit on the cake...

I'm contemplating actually cutting off Low tier at Ilyana, so Aran and Laura go there. Laura could even be above Aran in that regard, but this Aran v Ilyana thing is actually somewhat interesting to me.

I would argue Meg > Fiona. At least Meg has a couple chapters while deploying her is free, and she's more helpful when she starts than Fiona, despite both being definately bottom tier material.

I'm not sure about that at all... I haven't seen one strategy where Meg could be helpful, whereas I know Fiona can ferry Micaiah to help with a 5-turn clear. And for chipping laguz in 3-6, Fiona can actually get away quickly enough, whereas Meg cannot Canto. Edited August 7, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Anouleth]

btw howcome potentials are considered for some characters but not for others?

Edward and Aran have a chance of being useful in an efficient playthrough past their early phase. Fiona and Meg do not.

[Darros]

I'm not sure about that at all... I haven't seen one strategy where Meg could be helpful, whereas I know Fiona can ferry Micaiah to help with a 5-turn clear. And for chipping laguz in 3-6, Fiona can actually get away quickly enough, whereas Meg cannot Canto.

Innate saviour is helpful, but Fiona still gets killed in 2-3 hits.

And in the swamp Fiona has terrible movement, her canto isn't really helpful there.

[Lord Raven]

I'd rather have her be very useful in 1-7 (she doesn't need to get attacked to pull it off) than Meg doing small amounts of chip in 1-4.

Meg faces problems against Laguz in 1-4 just like Fiona does against enemies in later chapters (I'm not sure how much the cats do, if they're doubling Aran they're doubling Meg, but the Tigers definitely 2HKO her)... not like you're using Fiona or Meg into the swamp area, anyway.

EDIT: Also, the GM list blows cock. I'm looking at it and nothing below Top feels right at all.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Lilmik11]

Fiona can chip behind soome units who are NOT in swaps,as you just let most of the enemies approach you while not being in swamps.Voila!

[Fenrir]

I have and I prefer to keep that shit out of this thread. If you're going to post, you may as well be more constructive than that.

IMPOSSIBRU!

EDIT: Also, the GM list blows cock. I'm looking at it and nothing below Top feels right at all.

This isn't constructive criticism!

[RNG Princess]

@Lilmik Fiona has the worst hit and she's probably the character with the worst hit in this game or she's definitely among them. Anyways Fiona is not good for chipping unless you mean magic cards and Meg can use those too.

@Mercenary Raven iirc Meg is ORKO'd by tigers because ones with 12 speed double her, but I find her useful to get hurt by cats/tigers(that cant double her) because then I get to use a wrath Miccy ^_^, and I like using Meg in 1-4 because she can always stand behind Eddie and trade off his wind edge and chip or I can just send her to find the seal.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[aku chi]

Let me take a stab at the Greil Mercenaries. Blimey, this is a lot of units!

Top

Haar

Titania (T - Spd, Skl)

Ike (T - HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Def, Res)

Titania

Ike

High

Mia (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Reyson

Oscar (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Mia

Shinon

Gatrie (T - Str, Skl, Spd, Def)

Boyd (T - HP, Str, Skl, Spd)

Gatrie

Nephenee (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Upper Mid

Oscar

Ulki (T - Str)

Janaff

Ulki

Mordecai

Ranulf

Heather

Middle

Jill (T - Str, Skl, Spd, Def)

Zihark (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Nephenee

Leanne

Tanith (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Marcia (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Boyd

Soren (T - Mag, Skl, Spd, Res)

Rhys (T - Mag, Skl, Res)

Mist (T - Mag, Spd)

Rhys

Mist

Lower Mid

Kyza

Sigrun

Tanith

Jill

Marcia

Zihark

Rolf (T - Str, Spd)

Soren

Rolf

Kieran (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Makalov (T - Str, Spd, Def)

Low

Brom

Danved (N/T - Str)

Calill (N/T - Mag)

Kieran

Bottom

Ilyana

Lethe

Makalov

Astrid (T - Str, Skl, Spd)

Lyre

Astrid

I can't comment on all of the differences. But I made more of an effort to ignore part 4 performance than the OP seemed to. This resulted in Ulki and Janaff moving down quite a bit (very good units, but only in 4 relevant chapters), and Gatrie moving up (solid throughout Part 3). I also added all of the Transfer versions of units. I've never tried it, but it looks like Jill (T) and Zihark (T) would be decent enough to consider using in the latter half of part 3. The other transfered fliers are where they are just for their performance in 3-11, which indicates just how crappy low-mid and beyond are. I'm not too satisfied with the lower tiers either, because the units' contributions are so minimal/non-existent.

[Fenrir]

Heather > Nephenee makes no sense to me. It would help if you can explain why you decided to do that.

[Lord Raven]

This isn't constructive criticism!

Don't get smart, I've said that in the opening post and frankly I know how bad it is because there's so many units.

And yeah I REALLY halfassed that list because I basically threw around random tiers and didnt really change the order of most of the units on the list. That's definitely what I meant by "sucks cock" for reference, but I'll edit my OP with your list and comment on it as soon as I have done so.

Expect comments on the following:

Titania (T) > Ike (T)

Oscar >>>> Nephenee

Soren (T) >>>> Rolf (T) and Soren > Rolf

Jill (T) and Zihark (T) in Middle.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Fenrir]

For the P1 tier, something i found weird was that Jill is the only Transfer character.

[Lilmik11]

@Lilmik Fiona has the worst hit and she's probably the character with the worst hit in this game or she's definitely among them. Anyways Fiona is not good for chipping unless you mean magic cards and Meg can use those too.

@Mercenary Raven iirc Meg is ORKO'd by tigers because ones with 12 speed double her, but I find her useful to get hurt by cats/tigers(that cant double her) because then I get to use a wrath Miccy ^_^, and I like using Meg in 1-4 because she can always stand behind Eddie and trade off his wind edge and chip or I can just send her to find the seal.

I know, but that's not my point, I just used the wrong words. What I meant is Fiona>Meg, because Fiona can canto back after doing something, so she's never in a bad position, unlike Meg, who has also bad move. When I said chip, I meant, attack a laguz to lower gauge. If you're trying to go through a chapter as fast as posssible, a unit with bad move, unfitting and bad stats for her class and no canto , you're not going to deploy Meg. Fiona, on the other hand, has a mount and canto. She could have zeros everywhere and still be useful while all Meg can do is combat, and in a very mediocre way that needs babying to be useful.

[RNG Princess]

@Mercenary Raven would you like me to upload a video demonstrating the 5 turn strategy with Fiona?

@Lilmik yes I aree canto is really helpful I see your point, Meg can be deployed and help too. If you don't have a torch staff Meg can always use a torch and those are really cheap iirc. Fiona can do that too but I'm just saying it doesn't hurt to deploy both unless your having them fight which will get them killed lol. Meg is capable of doing all these things Fiona can except ferrying and cantoing.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Lord Raven]

If the argument ever comes up again haha... It's up to you if you want to. I personally believe the fact that it exists because I 7 or 8 turned it with the boss kill on Turn 5 during my draft, and no one to ferry Micaiah (I forgot about Savior) really blew me.

For the P1 tier, something i found weird was that Jill is the only Transfer character.

Yeah, the only characters that get any useful transfers are... Jill and Zihark. And Zihark is better than no transfer Jill regardless of whether or not he has transfers, on top of Sothe not really minding transfers. Tormod's transfers also don't excuse the fact that Edward's utility in the first 3 chapters are far more dire than Tormod's in the last 3 chapters. Edited August 7, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[RNG Princess]

Ok I will ^_^ this one is on NM but it doesn't affect the strategy for HM at all you'll see why. I have a HM video with the same strategy but its too long(15 minutes). This one is 5minutes Let it just finish uploading in YT, in a few minutes lol.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[aku chi]

Heather > Nephenee makes no sense to me. It would help if you can explain why you decided to do that.

It's thief utility vs. combat utility, so there's no perfect science here. There are some valuable items for Heather to steal in Part 3, most notably the 3-5 Energy Drop. There are also some nice hidden treasures that Heather is best at finding, most notably the Rescue staff in 3-E. Nephenee, meanwhile, is a borderline combatent who may or may not be fielded in any chapters in Part 3.

For the P1 tier, something i found weird was that Jill is the only Transfer character.

Oops, I also forgot about Ilyana (T - Mag, Skl, Res). I don't think Ilyana (T) has a good case for being more valuable than Leonardo, but I could be convinced otherwise.

Edit: And Tormod (T - Mag, Spd), too! But that's even less consequential than Ilyana's transfers.

Edited August 7, 2011 by aku chi

[RNG Princess]

she does have a better case at > Leonardo because she can hit enemies now and deal better damage as well as crits maybe?

[Lord Raven]

Yeah, and I said that if a transfer isn't mentioned it probably is irrelevant to placement.

err, 4 extra accuracy doesn't help her hit *that* much. She is doing better chip than Leonardo when coming in but Leonardo helps out with chip in 3-6 as shown by some dude whose username I forgot, and Leo/Edward can team up early on against enemies. I think killing enemies in 1-1 and 1-2 is a big deal because they're crowded maps.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Lilmik11]

Yeah, and I said that if a transfer isn't mentioned it probably is irrelevant to placement.

err, 4 extra accuracy doesn't help her hit *that* much. She is doing better chip than Leonardo when coming in but Leonardo helps out with chip in 3-6 as shown by some dude whose username I forgot, and Leo/Edward can team up early on against enemies. I think killing enemies in 1-1 and 1-2 is a big deal because they're crowded maps.

Well, that's me I think. However, I think Ilyana>Leonardo. Ilyana can chip throughout the whole part 1, because she targets res, which is always inferior to defense.With 14 speed, she's good in 1-3, one of the toughest map in part 1 to low-turn. Leo is good in 1-P, 1-1, 1-2, somewhat OK for 1-3 and then he does what Ilyana does but not as good as her. She's only sliiiightly better because of Leo's better part 3 performance, whereas her sucks.

[dondon151]

I disagree on Zihark being above Jill. Jill saves turns in both sections of 1-6, 1-7, 1-E, and 3-12; Zihark just doesn't really do much at all.