Seth.

[rigadoog]

I would just like to ask a very simple question about Seth: What is it that makes him so much better than other Oifayes?

It seems to me that he's just about the same as Titania or Marcus (FE7), but he's banned from every FE8 draft while Titania and Marcus are pretty much required in drafts of their respective games. What does Seth have that these two don't?

[Anouleth]

I would just like to ask a very simple question about Seth: What is it that makes him so much better than other Oifayes?

It seems to me that he's just about the same as Titania or Marcus (FE7), but he's banned from every FE8 draft while Titania and Marcus are pretty much required in drafts of their respective games. What does Seth have that these two don't?

Titania eventually "drops off", due to lack of flight, and her combat in lategame is merely tied with other good units. Seth does not drop off. Seth may be the best unit in every single chapter in the game. In addition, when using Seth, the pace in earlygame is such that it's impossible to train most other units alongside him. In FE9, BEXP exists and it is much more reasonable to train other units even while leaning heavily on Titania.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Anouleth

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Seth makes FE8 trivial. Nuff said

At least tits and marcus slow down in last few chapters

Edited August 9, 2011 by Ho.M.the.Money

[rigadoog]

Wait so you're saying Seth usually has better stats than Titania or Marcus (FE7) at the end game? I've only played through Sacred Stones once and I didn't use Seth, because, well it was NM and I didn't need to.

That combined with access to multiple legendary weapons which give double MT sounds like it makes the entire game, including endgame a joke. I thought FE8 was similar in difficulty to FE9, but now I realize why people say the game's difficulty is a joke (even though FE9 had pretty boring difficulty too).

Does the length make a difference too? It seems like Tits and Marcus have more time after they drop off than Seth who has a ~20 chapter game.

Edited August 9, 2011 by rigadoog

[Anouleth]

Wait so you're saying Seth usually has better stats than Titania or Marcus (FE7) at the end game? I've only played through Sacred Stones once and I didn't use Seth, because, well it was NM and I didn't need to.

It's not that he has better stats. It's more like at the end of the game, you'll have a 20/20 Seth and at best your other units will be 20/5, if that. None of them could compete. In FE7, you get other prepromotes, like Isadora, Harken, Pent, Geitz, who can keep up with Marcus and outdo him. Nobody can outdo Seth.

That combined with access to multiple legendary weapons which give double MT sounds like it makes the entire game, including endgame a joke. I thought FE8 was similar in difficulty to FE9, but now I realize why people say the game's difficulty is a joke (even though FE9 had pretty boring difficulty too).

I think FE8 is actually more difficult, since even though it's easier to 1-round enemies they typically deal a lot more damage back. FE9 does not have anything as offensively dangerous as Dracozombies or Gorgons or even Druids.

In addition, using Seth to his fullest extent means that it's very hard to train other units. The abundance of BEXP in FE9 makes it extremely easy to train the growth units like Marcia or Jill. Someone like Tana or Vanessa does not have the same opportunity in this game.

Does the length make a difference too? It seems like Tits and Marcus have more time after they drop off than Seth who has a ~20 chapter game.

Well for Titania's first 20 chapters she is very good. The same for Marcus. Marcus doesn't really start to become obsolete until Victory or Death.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Anouleth

[Mekkah]

Just want to nitpick that Seth is probably worse than Cormag and perhaps Vanessa/Tana in Ch15 because of desert. :p But yeah, they just keep putting him in an environment where nothing else can keep up. I think you can write part of it off to the difference in winning conditions (between FE7 and FE8). FE7 has quite a few earlygame routs and defend maps where training other units is possible. FE8 has a lot of seizing and boss killing, with the routs only really starting at midgame. Routs encourage a spread out army whereas defend maps allow you to play inefficiently, whereas in these other objectives the only goal is to get Seth and/or your seizebot to a certain spot ASAP.

[Anouleth]

Just want to nitpick that Seth is probably worse than Cormag and perhaps Vanessa/Tana in Ch15 because of desert. :p But yeah, they just keep putting him in an environment where nothing else can keep up.

That probably depends on the route. Ephraim route has so much empty space to the south that Seth can play around with (even if you want to send someone north to help with Caellach)

I think you can write part of it off to the difference in winning conditions (between FE7 and FE8). FE7 has quite a few earlygame routs and defend maps where training other units is possible. FE8 has a lot of seizing and boss killing, with the routs only really starting at midgame. Routs encourage a spread out army whereas defend maps allow you to play inefficiently, whereas in these other objectives the only goal is to get Seth and/or your seizebot to a certain spot ASAP.

Perhaps. I think that routs are a lot more fun as well (which is why I like Part 4 in FE10 so much).

[HongLei]

^^^

Routs make sense, seizing does not. Seriously, if I saw the lord walk into the gate alone, I would think great let's ambush them from behind and sandwich them in between us and the rest of the army.

[Geriba]

^^^

Routs make sense, seizing does not. Seriously, if I saw the lord walk into the gate alone, I would think great let's ambush them from behind and sandwich them in between us and the rest of the army.

lol. This logic also applies to defend missions, so I guess the stupidity evens out!

[Anouleth]

^^^

Routs make sense, seizing does not. Seriously, if I saw the lord walk into the gate alone, I would think great let's ambush them from behind and sandwich them in between us and the rest of the army.

Yet at the same time, if the General or leader dies and the castle is captured, you might expect the troops outside to give up. For example, they mention in Chapter 9 Eph. Route:

Ephraim:

There must be some Grado soldiers within the castle who do not want to fight. If we can rush the fort and seize the throne room, I believe they will surrender.

That's typically the rationale. I think that if a soldier saw the general get killed and the castle captured, they would probably think about running away rather than attacking!

[CT075]

While that may be true, this only applies in isolated castles/battles. I'm honestly surprised there weren't more scenes where some general (read: Valter) had the brains to attack while they were resting after taking the fort (ala chapter 5x).

[HongLei]

[That's typically the rationale. I think that if a soldier saw the general get killed and the castle captured, they would probably think about running away rather than attacking! /quote]

I think it would also depend on the general, if I saw them kill Gheb I would probably go buy them something or give them some kinda prize. If they killed a general you respect and it is an honor to serve under (Shiharam, Dussel, Uhai, etc.) you may want revenge.

[Anouleth]

While that may be true, this only applies in isolated castles/battles.

In Chapter 9, morale is mentioned as being low amongst the Grado soldiers. In Chapter 14, you're fighting the Emperor, so you might expect that morale would shatter if he was killed or captured. In Chapter 16, you're fighting Orson, who is pretty insane, and I can't imagine that his troops would continue fighting after the castle was captured. The only chapter where it's really weird is Chapter 20. You'd think that the monsters would continue attacking no matter what, right? I mean, there should at least have been reinforcements coming from behind in Final.

I'm honestly surprised there weren't more scenes where some general (read: Valter) had the brains to attack while they were resting after taking the fort (ala chapter 5x).

Eirika gets attacked immediately after taking Jehanna. And it's important to note that Lyon doesn't really care about winning the war. All he's interested in is destroying the Sacred Stones.

In addition, they weren't really "resting" in Chapter 5x. They were on their way out anyway. I can't imagine that a general would be stupid enough to completely drop their guard just because they took a castle so they can rest.