XiSrOn Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) [spoiler=Rule Set] Drafting: 1. This draft is for 5 players. 2. Marth and Nagi/Gotoh are free for all to use. 3. The game will be played on Normal. Rules: 1. Undrafted units may recruit characters, visit houses, trade, meatshield, and shop. 2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to opening chests/doors. 3. Gaiden (and prologue, if NM) chapters do not count towards the total turncount up to 20 turns taken. 4. You are free to reclass both drafted and undrafted units to whatever you want. 5. Marth may not Seize the throne in Chapter 19 before Turn 5. Other: 1. Forging, Wi-Fi Shop, and usage of the Warp staff are strictly prohibited. 2. You may not use loaner units. Penalties: 1. Undrafted units have a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter. These are my current thoughts on a very vague level. Most of the top is well defined IMO, but the lower down parts are less defined as some of those units I've never bothered to use because they're so awful. Like Vyland or all of the Not Recruitedtier. Top: Frey Abel Cain Caeda Upper Mid: Barst Hardin Ogma Navarre Draug Cord Bord Wolf Sedgar Mid: Jagen Athena Gordin Xane Merric Wendell Norne Julian Horace Roshea Matthis Lower Mid: Castor Roger Caesar Radd Darros Jake Vyland Lena Etzel Rickard Low: Elice Boah Dolph Tomas Minerva Midia Astram Macellan Ymir Lorenz Not Recruited: Samson Arran Jeorge Wrys Bantu Tiki Palla Catria Est Beck Maria Linde I was going to base this off another tier list I remembered seeing not too long ago (2-3 months or so), except it had been blanked out by the OP of the thread. Edited October 11, 2011 by XiSrOn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Wrys I could see being recruited. It'd be, what, a 1 turn penalty to do so? Hardly game breaking, I could see him making that up, possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) wrys most certainly wont make up for that one turn in normal same goes for merric, palla catria est maria minerva wendell beck and every unit I forgot to add. Jagen could go to top of upper mid for being all around amazing and not slowing down untill chapter 20ish on normal mode Edited October 10, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 On NM, Julian is very viable, and without a thief being free by those rules, I could see Rickard being higher too. There are a few good weapons and/or Master Seals which you would want looted, but Marth doesn't have the time to do so. What about drafted units? Are you allowed to reclass them? I'd assume not, since you stated that you may reclass undrafted ones, but you may want to specify this too. I'm not sure about Wolf and/or Sedgar - takes a long time until they actually start getting XP from enemies, and by that time the bases are horrible compared to everyone else. Personally I'd also put Merric around Wendell for similar reasons, turns out he isn't as good in drafts while Wendell can heal and has decent base speed and better move. I think Xane is pretty good if you're not allowed to reclass. Another Paladin/Draco is always good when speed is key anyway. At least better than Cord/Bord, IMO. They are slow, can't cross water, have sub-par growths (although I guess they OHKO more or less easily, which means that speed isn't quite a big matter anyway) and Bord's Speed sucks. Assuming again that reclassing isn't allowed. There are a few more things I'd maybe disagree about, but I'm not very experienced in drafts, and it barely matters if a low-tier is a spot or two higher/lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 On NM, Julian is very viable, and without a thief being free by those rules, I could see Rickard being higher too. There are a few good weapons and/or Master Seals which you would want looted, but Marth doesn't have the time to do so. 10 uses of master key is all you need. Rickard is tricky to get What about drafted units? Are you allowed to reclass them? I'd assume not, since you stated that you may reclass undrafted ones, but you may want to specify this too. Yes they can be reclassed as they can do anything they want. I'm not sure about Wolf and/or Sedgar - takes a long time until they actually start getting XP from enemies, and by that time the bases are horrible compared to everyone else. I could see them drop under bord and cord Personally I'd also put Merric around Wendell for similar reasons, turns out he isn't as good in drafts while Wendell can heal and has decent base speed and better move. healer is almost useless. Both cost a turn. neither really makes up for it. Both needs to drop A LOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Barst ought to be top tier, he's just that good. Ogma should stand at top of Upper Mid imo. Also hit Hardin above Navarre, Navarre only has KE going for him as a Cav but Hardin can already take the Silver Lance/Ridersbane and get to killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiSrOn Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Wrys CAN make up one turn, but generally he isn't recruited. Merric and Wendell both definitely can make up turns. Wendell by being a dracoknight early on - which is very powerful and Merric by being an above average cavalier due to his extremely good defensive growths. I was thinking about moving Julian higher, but I wasn't sure. His combat is usable on NM, but it's still worse than most units and he very often won't be able to use his combat. Also, I made it more clear in the OP that this draft tier list includes reclasses. As for Jagen going to the top of upper mid - no way, he has issues doubling much earlier than chapter 20 - he considerably loses usefulness by 10-14 as he can't double reliably at all after that point. Wolf and Sedgar could go down due to issues with getting them the 1-2 levels they need to be able to start dominating everything, but they join right before a gaiden, so you can use that entire chapter to level them up if you don't draft anyone else who needs that. The major issue with this type of tier list as I see it is that so many picks are made so much worse or so much better based on what you already have. Navarre, Merric and Gaggles being some that jump in value if you don't have one of the Altean 3. So a list of possible moves to discuss: Julian up to ? Barst up to Top? Ogma up? Hardin v Navarre Wolf and Sedgar down? Xane? Edited October 10, 2011 by XiSrOn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Wrys CAN make up one turn, but generally he isn't recruited. No map goes to reasonable 1 turn faster clear because of wrys so no Merric and Wendell both definitely can make up turns. Wendell by being a dracoknight early on - which is very powerful and Merric by being an above average cavalier due to his extremely good defensive growths. Jagen/Shiida/Altean cavs out do wendell easily. most likely hardin too. Everyone has good defence as cavalier on normal. How does tank save turn? As for Jagen going to the top of upper mid - no way, he has issues doubling much earlier than chapter 20 - he considerably loses usefulness by 10-14 as he can't double reliably at all after that point. I forgot he isn't free. sorry. way better than merric thou Wolf and Sedgar could go down due to issues with getting them the 1-2 levels they need to be able to start dominating everything, but they join right before a gaiden, so you can use that entire chapter to level them up if you don't draft anyone else who needs that. Still having little issues thou. Under Jagen I say. The major issue with this type of tier list as I see it is that so many picks are made so much worse or so much better based on what you already have. Navarre, Merric and Gaggles being some that jump in value if you don't have one of the Altean 3. Ideal first round of draft: 1 Frey 2 Abel 3 Cain 4 Shiida 5 Barst + someone like hardin I suppose. cant really say with no free jagen. Nav Mer and Gord arent that much better if you dont get altean cav Hardin > Navarre id say Wolf and Sedgy boy under bord and cord. chapter 4's chokepoint is bitchy so you want every unit you can get. Being in usefull position at 2 and 3 helps too. not to meantion being more usefull than wolf and sedgy in 6 (and that one is a bitch if I remember right) Should outweight wolf and seggy having good growths Edited October 10, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 If you are that desperate for Wolf/Sedgar to level, reclass to General for Chapter 6, and have them hold down the north. Alternately, reclass to Sorcerer, and staffbot that map. 6x is soon after, and that initial pirate rush is good for levels (especially axe levels, hint, hint). - Boah is in the wrong tier. Do not underestimate the power of staffbot (since my Endgame relies on Fortify). - Linde to Not Recruited. She's +4, starts at level 1, and is never making those turns up. - Xane and Julian need to switch. Xane requires a very specific strategy to get while preserving the 6-turn clear (which is why I never recruit him), and Julian makes for excellent bait, thanks to his awful defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Why are Vyland and Roshea so low? They aren't too bad on normal mode (Roshea was my gradivus wielder in a H2 draft). The game gives you lots of speedwings to fix Roshea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Also Merric to under gordin AT LEAST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Didn't see this sooner. Sorry. Est down an entire tier (below Tomas, at least). She costs at least a turn, and if she's making it up somehow, there's something seriously wrong with your team. Matthis, Roshea, and Tomas do not cost turns, come sooner, and are quite useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I know you love him Clipsey, but Tomas is pretty useless. C Bows is kind of Nice, but Archer/Sniper isn't a very good class for normal mode drafts. He just has terrible base stats. His growths aren't too bad, but there nothing too special either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Shouldn't Maria and Minerva be in Not rescuited? At least THAT should be agreedable change if you don't, you know just put every unit that costs turn(s) to not rescuited But yeah Roshe and Vyland up a bit cant think of place right now. Maybe around Matthis... Est tier down is important aswell. Palla and Catria where Est is now until I bother to argue them in not rescuited? Does Darros Cost a turn? If yes he must go down a lot Boah and Elise to top of low? End Game utility. Agreeing with Linde to Not Resc. Midia and Astram up to where Dolph is? They are both somewhat useable... Edited October 10, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiSrOn Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Shouldn't Maria and Minerva be in Not rescuited? At least THAT should be agreedable change if you don't, you know just put every unit that costs turn(s) to not rescuited But yeah Roshe and Vyland up a bit cant think of place right now. Maybe around Matthis... Est tier down is important aswell. Palla and Catria where Est is now until I bother to argue them in not rescuited? Does Darros Cost a turn? If yes he must go down a lot Boah and Elise to top of low? End Game utility. Agreeing with Linde to Not Resc. Midia and Astram up to where Dolph is? They are both somewhat useable... Minerva can easily make up turns though. She was pretty much my MVP in one of my runs - although it was a random reclass and she was still a draco so this could be coloring my opinion of her (inb4 PEMN). Moved Linde and Maria to Not Recruited. Boah/Elice to top of low since they do come with high staff levels from the get go which has its uses. Est to the middle of low - might be possible to argue her into Not Recruited due to her late join, but if you don't have any good class A lance users you might level her hard in the upcoming Gaidens to get to be a reasonable Gradivus user for Endgame. We'll see what happens. Vyland to the bottom of Lower Mid, Roshea to right below Matthis. Matthis and Roshea are quite similar, but both are definitely ahead of Vyland in usefulness. Palla/Catria to right above Jake. Beck to right below Elice/Boah. Darros to the bottom of Lower Mid since he sometimes does cost turns with his auto-recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 If Maria is not recruited, Minerva also shouldn't be. Costs like 6 turns (OR MORE?) to get both. Minerva is also sorta meh anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I'm going to propose a list of changes here, in bold. I'll explain them at the bottom. [spoiler=Changes]Upper Mid: Barst Hardin Ogma Jagen Navarre Bord Cord Wolf Sedgar Mid: Draug Athena Gordin Castor Horace Lower Mid: Matthis Roshea Norne Julian Roger Caesar Jake Vyland Lena Midia Etzel Rickard Low: Astram Boah Dolph Tomas Elice Macellan Ymir Lorenz Not Recruited: Samson Arran Jeorge Wrys Bantu Tiki Merric Wendall Palla Catria Darros Minerva Beck Est Linde Hardin to above Ogma - Instant Silver Lance and Ridersbane use, with decent bases and growths to back it up. Ogma has a couple chapters in hand, but Hardin's lategame is better than Ogma's contributions early on, IMO. Jeigan to above Navarre - Seriously, this guy could be even higher. He saves quite a few turns early on, and Navarre never really outshines him until Navarre promotes, and even then, it is close. Bord and Cord to below Navarre - Both are fairly solid statwise, a speedwing (which has little competition) and a promotion to Hero makes Bord a wrecking ball. He also will be able to use the chapter 7 Silver Axe as soon as you get it too. Cord is a mini Barst with an E in axes. Wolf and Sedgar swap places - Wolf has a better start, and Sedgar's slight defensive win is pretty negligable in Normal Mode. Castor and Horace to the bottom of Mid - Castor has a decent set of growths, and makes a good hero upon promotion. His lack of weapon ranks hurt him though. Horace, who was below Radd and Caeser before, comes well before their promotion, and ORKO's enemies for all of Midgame (providing you throw him an arms scroll for D in axes as a Hero). Matthis and Roshea to the top of lower Mid - Their jointime is nice, and can hit C in lances pretty early on. A speedwing alleviates some of their speed issues, but having Javelin and Ridersbane useage and 9 movement is more than Roger, Darros, Caeser or Radd can say. Vyland to below Jake - His bases are pretty bad, but he has a nice speed growth, and D in lances. Has strength issues, so he's about half a tier down from Roshea and Matthis. He's far better than Dolph/Macellan/Tomas. Midia to above Etzel - Has a decent base lance rank, and can instantly reclass to dracoknight. Unlike Jeigan, she actually has alright growths to keep her somewhat viable. She might even double for a while if she gets lucky! Astram and Boah to the top of Low - Astram can use Silver Swords, and occasionally double, and Boah will have lategame fortify and a good tome rank. Lorenz to the bottom of Low - He might as well sit on the bench. Can use silver bows I guess. At least Ymir has decent offence. All the people in not recruited - Merric is not solid enough in any other class to save turns, and Mages have poor movement. Wendall is decent, but Jeigan can do anything Wendall can in any class other than Sage, which also have low movement. Palla and Catria will not make up the turn they take to recruit, Darros will not either, and is not impressive anyhow. Minerva takes far too many turns to recruit, and her offence without Hautclere is unimpressive. Beck costs two turns, and Linde is awful and costs 4 or 5. Edited October 10, 2011 by General_Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I agree with Horace's list expect few things: 1) Radd is missing 2) I would personally change the positions of Horace and Matthis+Roshe mainly because of personal preference. I can live with the current way thou... 3) Midia Right Below Vyland. Maybe even putting Vyland right on top of jake and Midia right below Jake. 4) Low: Astram Boah Elice Tomas Dolph Macellan Ymir Lorenz Elise helps in EndGame, Tomas can atleast keep up with Marth unlike bald duo Edited October 10, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Oops, deleted Radd by accident. I don't really know where to put him, he's one unit I have never used, ever. He's kinda slow though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I think you could move Lena up a tier. She comes with C staves, so you don't have to worry about staff rank, and she easily augments any weaknesses in a team. I know it's easy to reclass someone to a curate, but most of the time it's better to have an offensive unit to stay in that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 1. I'll agree with Sho's bottom tier. 2. Here's my thoughts on a couple of people: Darros - Might have use in Chapter 16 if he's your only axe guy, as getting across the sea with a Hammer is more than most units can do (Minerva has to dodge arrows). Wendell - Will be doubling a lot of stuff, especially if he goes Swordmaster (as Armorslayers make a decent Hammer replacement). His ridiculous base Speed should count for something. Est - If you are relying on her for Gradivus, then something has gone horribly wrong (i.e. you missed out on the Altean Three, Caeda, Hardin, my version of the Christmas Knights, and possibly Palla, Catria, Roshea, and yes, even Matthis). Like her sisters, she costs a turn. Unlike her sisters, she doesn't have 17x to train on, and I usually have better units to use 20x on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Why is Frey above Wing Spear? Oh I see, though it appears arbitrary to me. Other:1. Forging, Wi-Fi Shop, and usage of the Warp staff are strictly prohibited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Wing Spear is still really strong, but Frey has that better durability, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 And 1-2 range for those few gimmicky places where its needed... Healing is so unneeded that Lena won't rise because of C Staff rank. Someone could try argue Pegasus Lena over Vyland thou. That is assuming it wont totally suck ballz and I'm pretty sure it does. As for Radd I might see him somewhere around Midia. He don't do much before she comes, she beats him once She arrives and won't do much better once his Growths kick in. Also Midia has Insta Draco and C lance... Radd still has those 5 maps to play around before she comes thou. Granted Radd won't do a thing in chapter 8 outside shopping and maybe one round of arena. Then comes chapter 9 where he might actually make Steel Sword usefull. In 10 he can chips few Cavs and Pegasi I suppose. In 11 he can eat ballista hit. Could he survive battling some mercs? 12 he is not doing anything but chipping -.- Maybe right under Midia because he dont have the availability or Lance rank of Vyland..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Can I just ask, what's the point of this rule: 5. Marth may not Seize the throne in Chapter 19 before Turn 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.