FE11 Draft Tier List

[Whitefang]

The European version apparently has a special gate that costs 1 movement for Marth, which allows him to seize one turn earlier than in other versions of the game.

[CrashGordon94]

Oh, right.

[eclipse]

Healing is so unneeded that Lena won't rise because of C Staff rank. Someone could try argue Pegasus Lena over Vyland thou. That is assuming it wont totally suck ballz and I'm pretty sure it does.

If I can get JAGEN to A rank staves on Normal without too much effort, Lena should have no problem.

As for Radd I might see him somewhere around Midia. He don't do much before she comes, she beats him once She arrives and won't do much better once his Growths kick in. Also Midia has Insta Draco and C lance... Radd still has those 5 maps to play around before she comes thou. Granted Radd won't do a thing in chapter 8 outside shopping and maybe one round of arena. Then comes chapter 9 where he might actually make Steel Sword usefull. In 10 he can chips few Cavs and Pegasi I suppose. In 11 he can eat ballista hit. Could he survive battling some mercs? 12 he is not doing anything but chipping -.-

If he's going to the arena, it means I'm sending my healer after him. That means he shops for two turns and arenas the rest. In other words, he's got enough time to gain a level, or close to it. As for Radd's existence. . .

Chapter 9 - Immediate reclass to Cavalier. He retains his sword rank and gets a ton of movement. He helps beat up pirates. If I'm feeling especially risky, he beats up the Blizzard guy.

Chapter 10 - Gets some lance rank off the cavaliers, then either runs into the prison with Julian and several other people to take on everyone in there, or runs ahead with others to beat up the cleric and Master Seal dude. It's not that hard to rig the kill on the latter (unless Frey's ORKO's the dude).

Chapter 11 - He's durable enough to bait the first two mercs, down a vulnerary, then bait/kill the rest. At base, he's got 9 DEF as a horse unit, and his DEF growth exists. If he gains DEF once over the past two chapters, the Iron Sword mercs are doing all of 4 damage total, at most. Don't remember if the Steel Sword ones double him. Alternately, if he's hit 11 DEF or so, he can run ahead of Marth and bait the Killer Bow dude with relative safety (a critical means 18 damage, and Radd's HP should be higher than that).

Chapter 12 - Chase/kill the thieves, then barricade the door.

That's Radd's contributions in my drafts, and that's a lot better than Midia's nonexistence. I can usually get him to D Lances by Chapter 12, and once he gets a Javelin, it's funny.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

If I can get JAGEN to A rank staves on Normal without too much effort, Lena should have no problem.

And I said getting staff rank is hard? No. I said healers are almost useless. If the word rise confused you it meant on tier list, not in the staff rank. Actually, Jagen easily getting A rank makes Lena even MORE useless

Edited October 11, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty

[eclipse]

And I said getting staff rank is hard? No. I said healers are almost useless. If the word rise confused you it meant on tier list, not in the staff rank. Actually, Jagen easily getting A rank makes Lena even MORE useless

You have any other ideas how staff users are gonna hit A rank staves besides 18 uses of Barrier until Chapter 23?

And of your other units, don't they have better things to do with their time (besides Wolf/Sedgar staffbot on 6)?

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

You have any other ideas how staff users are gonna hit A rank staves besides 18 uses of Barrier until Chapter 23?

We need it at ANY point of the game? Those magemotherfuckers Stand little change against Paladin's 6 base Res + Pure Water... And marth can use the handy sacrifice units to survive. Its not like you need those scrubs anymore at chap 23...

And of your other units, don't they have better things to do with their time (besides Wolf/Sedgar staffbot on 6)?

Because having a healer is SO useful that I even made Boah go Draco for some of the maps? Why are you shoving more reasons to drop Lena on the tier list down my throat?

Seriously why would anyone actually want to draft her? She makes me consider using Ymir over her for fuck's sake!

[General Horace]

If he's going to the arena, it means I'm sending my healer after him. That means he shops for two turns and arenas the rest. In other words, he's got enough time to gain a level, or close to it. As for Radd's existence. . .

Chapter 9 - Immediate reclass to Cavalier. He retains his sword rank and gets a ton of movement. He helps beat up pirates. If I'm feeling especially risky, he beats up the Blizzard guy.

Chapter 10 - Gets some lance rank off the cavaliers, then either runs into the prison with Julian and several other people to take on everyone in there, or runs ahead with others to beat up the cleric and Master Seal dude. It's not that hard to rig the kill on the latter (unless Frey's ORKO's the dude).

Chapter 11 - He's durable enough to bait the first two mercs, down a vulnerary, then bait/kill the rest. At base, he's got 9 DEF as a horse unit, and his DEF growth exists. If he gains DEF once over the past two chapters, the Iron Sword mercs are doing all of 4 damage total, at most. Don't remember if the Steel Sword ones double him. Alternately, if he's hit 11 DEF or so, he can run ahead of Marth and bait the Killer Bow dude with relative safety (a critical means 18 damage, and Radd's HP should be higher than that).

Chapter 12 - Chase/kill the thieves, then barricade the door.

That's Radd's contributions in my drafts, and that's a lot better than Midia's nonexistence. I can usually get him to D Lances by Chapter 12, and once he gets a Javelin, it's funny.

So, he's doing stuff that any other unit could do, sans some really scrubby unit like Maria. Cain/Frey/Abel/Hardin are all better at tanking the killer bow guy, becuase they will have better durability, and will probably double the sniper. When Midia shows up, she has C Lances, and a good speed growth to get her doubling at least cavaliers, something Radd won't do for a very long time. By the time Radd gets Ridersbanes, Midia may be doubling with Silvers. And Radd with Javelins is kinda awful, as he has bad base strength and awful speed.

And Personally, I never need a fortify user for endgame in normal mode, as I literally only use my gradivus Paladin, and everyone else sits around.

[XiSrOn]

I can't agree with Bord/Cord > Draug in the classes you would run all of them in (fighter -> hero) - Draug's better speed is a huge boon. IMO it's Draug > Cord > Bord. Nonetheless, moved them above Wolf/Sedgar, moved Wolf to above Sedgar and made that the bottom of Upper Mid.

I can't see Jagen above units that are good throughout the game like Navarre and the better Class B units. I'm leaving him at the top of Mid. Navarre loses to Jagen early, but Navarre, if you choose to make him this unit for you, can be the MVP as a Paladin/Draco - Jagen cannot.

I can't see why Merric and Wendell were in NR for Horace's list - yes they each cost 1 turn (Wendell through costing a turn to get Merric). Merric is a mid-tier Cavalier who's really good at ramboing - low strength, but good SKL/SPD/DEF, definitely above Vyland, Roshea, Matthis, Gordin IMO. Wendell has insane speed so he doubles through most of the game and once he stops being useful as a combat unit, just swap him to Bishop and he's an above average staffbot from the get--go.

Beck to not recruited - turn cost and he's a ballistician.

Maria to not recruited - not sure why she wasn't already.

Moved the Pegasus trio to Not Recruited due to late joining and turn cost.

Middle seemed very small so I moved the top of Lower Mid up into Mid.

I'm going to let debate continue on Midia and Darros before I potentially move them and I can't say I agree with Horace about Astram, so I'll leave him where he is until someone else comments about him.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

I can't agree with Bord/Cord > Draug in the classes you would run all of them in (fighter -> hero) - Draug's better speed is a huge boon. IMO it's Draug > Cord > Bord. Nonetheless, moved them above Wolf/Sedgar, moved Wolf to above Sedgar and made that the bottom of Upper Mid.

Bord and Cord have far superior early game (the part where these 3 units are most usefull), Superior AS is pointless when it give draug no matterfull doubless over the 2. Also their Gigantic lead in Axe rank is matterfull when best thing about fighters is Armour killing.

I can't see Jagen above units that are good throughout the game like Navarre and the better Class B units. I'm leaving him at the top of Mid. Navarre loses to Jagen early, but Navarre, if you choose to make him this unit for you, can be the MVP as a Paladin/Draco - Jagen cannot.

Lets look some common team builds:

Altean cavs make both trivial = Navarre has no leads over Jagen

Shiida makes both Trivial around Midgame = Jagen is clearly better when it matters

Barst + Hardin makes both trivial starting around chapter 6x = Jagen is clearly better when it matters

Also with these units around, neither is MVP, EVER

Jagen vs any non Barst B-set unit:

Jagen flies, has instant Silver access, more availability in general

2 more move than Wolf/Sedgy, +3 mov with 1-2 range access in compare to Ogma and +4 Mov lead on rest. To be specific

I can't see why Merric and Wendell were in NR for Horace's list

They cost a turn in a competition where winner is desided by about one turn difference (assuming all players play for the keeps) = Basically drop your changes of victory by 85ish % if rescuited.

yes they each cost 1 turn (Wendell through costing a turn to get Merric).

In other words they hurt you more than help.

Merric is a mid-tier Cavalier who's really good at ramboing

1) cutting your changes of victory for a mid tier unit?

2) He isn't mid tier cav, more like low

- low strength, but good SKL/SPD/DEF,

Str is like 2nd most important stat for cav

Skill is like second worst stat in the game

SPD is medicore the second he wields javelin or any other GOOD weapon, Most units douple anyway

Almost anyone can take all the beating they need to take. Def is pretty weak stat in low turning -.-

definitely above Vyland, Roshea, Matthis, Gordin IMO.

So insuring your lost so you have one more unit to chip at enemies is better than being one more unit to chip at enemies?

Wendell has insane speed so he doubles through most of the game and once he stops being useful as a combat unit, just swap him to Bishop and he's an above average staffbot from the get--go.

More than plenty of toilet paper is not very usefull when you have already shitted in your pants while bought it...

I'm going to let debate continue on Midia and Darros before I potentially move them

D = You cost turn and dont do anything

Midia = you can actually kill something while having 10 move

and I can't say I agree with Horace about Astram, so I'll leave him where he is until someone else comments about him.

Astram and Boah to the top of Low - Astram can use Silver Swords, and occasionally double

Astram's base Weapon Ranks Sword B, Axe D

Silver Sword usage, checked

Morzas AS 5

Astram base AS 14

Doubling, checked.

:awesome: :awesome: :awesome: :awesome: :awesome:

...Being better than any unit under him on Horace's list with the little adjustments I did and Clipsey agreed with, checked

Happy?

Now its my turn to ask.

Why isnt Minerva in not rescuited yet? Solid facts about her belonging to there has been pointed out and no-one has made solid counter argument for keeping her in Bottom?

How long does it take before you admit Horace being right and copy his list to the opening with the little adjustments I pointed out in the bottom tier? my other adjustment if people agree with them too if you dont mind

Edited October 11, 2011 by Sho.M.The.Panty

[eclipse]

Because having a healer is SO useful that I even made Boah go Draco for some of the maps? Why are you shoving more reasons to drop Lena on the tier list down my throat?

Chapter 6 sucks way less if I've got a healer (which is. . .not often enough)

Seriously why would anyone actually want to draft her? She makes me consider using Ymir over her for fuck's sake!

I don't draft her, because I like to reclass her to flying thing to recruit her brother, and simultaneously draw the archers out so she gets OHKO'd.

So, he's doing stuff that any other unit could do, sans some really scrubby unit like Maria. Cain/Frey/Abel/Hardin are all better at tanking the killer bow guy, becuase they will have better durability, and will probably double the sniper. When Midia shows up, she has C Lances, and a good speed growth to get her doubling at least cavaliers, something Radd won't do for a very long time. By the time Radd gets Ridersbanes, Midia may be doubling with Silvers. And Radd with Javelins is kinda awful, as he has bad base strength and awful speed.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember how much Speed that Snipper had (and this irritates me). I do remember that it was a rare occasion that I could double that dude with someone that wasn't Marth or Caeda. Geh, I'll hit him eventually in the Generic Draft, and then I'll post something more coherent.

And Personally, I never need a fortify user for endgame in normal mode, as I literally only use my gradivus Paladin, and everyone else sits around.

This doesn't work if you don't get the Starsphere (and it's plenty possible to miss it). I prefer to flatten everything that isn't Medeus with the Geosphere twice, then chew my way through, because my luck with ballistae stinks to high heaven.