Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am not waiting for Ellen and Saul to catch up. Hell, I have a hard enough time training Clarine before she promotes, and she's on a horse and one of my favorite units post-promotion. There's no need for Aureola when I can have Miledy and Shin wipe out most of endgame with Malte and Miugre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) I stand corrected. And even Ellen's and Saul's magic stat probably isn't as good as Niime's. I guess it boils down to whether stats or staves are more important, and I'd rather not continue that argument. Edited November 19, 2011 by Paper Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Ellen and Saul, if they ever are promoted, are gonna be promoted around 10ish since training unpromoted healers with the terrible staff exp is just such a pain. And yeah, they'll never hit the level that Niime is, nor her mag even without Apocalypse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Ray can use Apocalypse too, if he's seen enough combat to reach level 6 or so. As for staff rank, Ellen and Saul (of whom you are probably using at least one, if you're going to use Aureola) both have amazing staff ranks themselves. (S upon promotion to Bishop, in fact.) In any case, why would your dark magic user need a good staff rank? Heal works just fine as far as I'm concerned. It's not that Niime needs a good staff rank. It's more that having a high-magic staff user with good staff rank is a very potent asset in lategame. Niime is very powerful in terms of warpskipping lategame chapters. The question is, why does your staff user need to have good combat? Good combat is far, far easier to come by than a good staff user. Edited November 19, 2011 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) every character of that archetype yes. but I don't see any low-growth characters go there. Stefan will never be as good as Edward (FE10), Marcus never as good as Sain (FE7) or Jagen never as good as Frey(FE11). etc. meh, with save state it isn't hard to get Marcus level ups in all of the important stats and become "good". I'm not saying I don't agree that Sain will have better stats, etc. than Marcus eventually, but how is this an adequate response to "every character can be good with savestates"? Edited November 19, 2011 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I probably should have said "Ellen OR Saul", because I generally have no difficulty leveling up one of them at the expense of the other, but (a) that's my playstyle, not necessarily yours, and (b) PEMN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't use either and just stick to Clarine. Then just pile on Cecilia, Niime, and Yodel as I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) I probably should have said "Ellen OR Saul", because I generally have no difficulty leveling up one of them at the expense of the other, but (a) that's my playstyle, not necessarily yours, and (b) PEMN. I think you're contradicting yourself here. Edited November 19, 2011 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Jam Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My fault for keeping the argument going this long anyway, and it's not even relevant to Sophia (except to the extent that Sophia's staff skill is as bad as Ray's). Shall we leave it at that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) In conclusion. The answer is NO. EDIT To the question in the thread's title, not the post above. Edited November 19, 2011 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whase Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm not saying I don't agree that Sain will have better stats, etc. than Marcus eventually, but how is this an adequate response to "every character can be good with savestates"? with the same amount of save-state abuse, Marcus still has very little chance to be better than Sain at that same level. (and is it just me, or am I the only one who always gives most experience to my lowest leveled units?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 with the same amount of save-state abuse, Marcus still has very little chance to be better than Sain at that same level. (and is it just me, or am I the only one who always gives most experience to my lowest leveled units?) ... Except Marcus dominates FE7 so hard it's not even funny. And what do you count those times when Marcus's bases severely outshines Sain's? Nonexistent time? Sain's gotta catch up first. Not saying Sain's bad, but don't imply Marcus is bad either. He's amazing. You're right that Marcus will never be as good as Sain; Marcus starts the game stomping Sain so hard in every possible way (barring a 13/1 or so Sain from Lyn Mode) that it isn't even funny. "Will never" is too strong, because as has been said, Marcus compares favorably to Sain at first (except for the fact that, at higher level, you get less experience). Did the rest of the posts responding to your "save state abuse" argument fly completely over your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Sain takes a while to really get ahead of Marcus. Let's see, assuming Sainskip on Lyn Mode and him being... we'll say 14/1 (I think 14/1 is actually possible), and then we'll pitch Marcus at Level 5. 13/1 Sain - 31.4 HP | 16.8 Str | 9.55 Skl | 12.2 Spd | 8.55 Luck | 10.6 Def | 3.6 Res 5 Marcus - 33.6 HP | 16.2 Str | 17 Skl | 12 Spd | 9.2 Luck | 10.6 Def | 9.4 Res Sain is pretty much getting thrashed by Marcus here, stat-wise. Sain loses about 14-15 Hit on Marcus, and then there's Marcus's +2 HP | +5 Res. Going roughly down the road with, say, 13/7 Sain and 10 Marcus. 14/6 Sain - 36.2 HP | 20.4 Str | 11.65 Skl | 14.6 Spd | 10.65 Luck | 11.8 Def | 4.8 Res 10 Marcus - 36.85 HP | 17.7 Str | 19.5 Skl | 13.25 Spd | 10.7 Luck | 11.35 Def | 11.15 Res Not quite a landslide win for Sain. Actually, about this point Marcus should have the Brave Axe open to him. Sain will likely struggle to hit B Rank and, even if he does, he's looking at 29 Base Hit + 65 Hit, or 94. Not a whole lot really... tl;dr: it takes a lot for Sain to overcome Marcus, and even if he does overcome Marcus at one point, they're likely tied, Sain might be able to pull a small edge by the time it's almost irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) And this implies that you're playing Lyn Mode, which you shouldn't because Lyn Mode is boring and lame (and ruins the spirit of LTC IMO). Edited November 22, 2011 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) What if someone wants to play Lyn Mode? Don't tell people what they should or should not play. Plus, assuming Lyn Mode's basically giving Sain a huge lift in HHM usability, and it still shows that Marcus is still better for a good portion of the game. Now since we showed Sain at his best, then Sain at a more disadvantaged state won't even stand a chance against Marcus except maybe maybe maybe at endgame is automatically implied. Edited November 22, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 And this implies that you're playing Lyn Mode, which you shouldn't because Lyn Mode is boring and lame (and ruins the spirit of LTC IMO). What in the...? Where did you get this idea that Lyn Mode "ruins the spirit of LTC"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 What in the...? Where did you get this idea that Lyn Mode "ruins the spirit of LTC"? Because you have to spend turns on it, duh! Just like those stupid gaidens that nobody ever does during an LTC amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I thought most gaidens are assumed during LTC, as they are a part of the game. The only time when a gaiden's not assumed is if the requirement's just too ridiculous, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Because you have to spend turns on it, duh! Just like those stupid gaidens that nobody ever does during an LTC amirite? This post is completely uncalled for, and it doesn't do anything except show that you don't even know what you're talking about (on top of making you look like a complete tool). Edited November 23, 2011 by Black★Rock Shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This post is completely uncalled for, and it doesn't do anything except show that you don't even know what you're talking about (on top of making you look like a complete tool). I think the face implies sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Whoops... >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriVaLato Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sophia is worth it. Not only will you get Forblaze, but she also has Magikarp Power and will do a noticeably larger amount of usefulness to your team. The arena at chapter 17 will help train her for being promoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Sophia is worth it. Not only will you get Forblaze, but she also has Magikarp Power and will do a noticeably larger amount of usefulness to your team. The arena at chapter 17 will help train her for being promoted. Never mind the fact Sophia has about (sub) 50% accuracy on damn near everything and dies if she's so much as sneezed on. Not even chapter 17's arena can help her, because she's too weak to get any kills there. Edited November 23, 2011 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sophia is worth it. Not only will you get Forblaze, but she also has Magikarp Power and will do a noticeably larger amount of usefulness to your team. You don't need to train Sophia to get Forblaze, all she has to do is survive in Chapter 14. In addition, she doesn't really have "Magikarp Power" either. Her stats are okay but nothing special even when she's trained to a high level, and not significantly better than her contemporaries Hugh, Lilina, Lugh, Ray, and Saul, all of whom are significantly easier to train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Lilina actually, at 20/1, beats Sophia at every single everything except HP (by half a point), DEF and RES. So if Lilina is of debateable worth, and she's very obviously better than Sophia in almost every way, Sophia is -? Edited November 23, 2011 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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