mmKALLL Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) So, I got this cool idea one day, and it was to make a SD draft tier list. This applies to some generic NM rules, although I guess NM is more like "use the people from first two-three tiers and the rest are in their own tier since they cost a turn" than what this accounts for. Maybe a H1 draft tier list? Dunno. I guess I should do a Wi-Fi tier list next? There actually is no distinctive order between characters within the same tier. I just copied a char list and then moved them whole tiers downwards as needed. Also, no characters are considered free, though the thieves may open things. I think it's more down to the draft maker's choice than common acceptance to choose free characters. (I sorta assumed that I may be holding a draft once my H5 is done, or doing that extra awesomeness) S tier: Frey Abel Cain Ogma Shiida Barst Hardin A tier: Sedgar Wolf Nabarl Lena Roshea Athena Cord Caesar B tier: Julian Gordin Midia Jagen Castor Roger C tier: Norne Darros Vyland Jeorge Palla Catria Matthis Radd Merric Draug D tier: Tomas Xane Wendell Horace Etzel Est Elice Minerva E tier: Gotoh Wendell Jake Beck Boah Dolph Macellan Maria Ymir Astram Arran Fuck'd tier: Jeorge Wrys Rickard Bantu Linde Samson Tiki Lorenz Nagi And then to the bonus awesomeness I mentioned in the topic description if anyone happened to notice - I'm going to make a program which lets you to do drafts against my excellent AI using this list! I'll want some input before I start hard-coding the AI in though - especially from the experienced SD drafters so I can make winning a living hell. That might be a good idea actually - make it generate turncounts too, but it would be much harder to make good in practice without a lot of collaboration. I have some extra time soon and it's somewhat simple to make such a program. (and maybe, if I REALLY have too much time, I'll let you make your own) A very easy expansion for said program would be to let it generate PMU characters according to some difficulties you set. And to let more than one player take part in the draft. Edited November 21, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Abel above Frey, if only due to the fact that Abel comes with +1 Speed, which helps. Frey needs to proc 2 or 3 speed in Prologue to double in C1. Abel needs 1 or 2. It would help if I remembered the speed of those pirates. Shiida above Ogma. Ogma can't fly or javelin chuck, which doesn't help you move quickly. Barst above Sedgar, because Sedgar's bases are terrible and he takes too long to train. Hardin above Sedgar because Hardin Promotes to flight. And again. Sedar take too long to train. Athena above Roshea. Her bases are better than Roshea's, and she will always be faster than him too. Jagen, Gotoh, and Nagi all to Free tier. Arran down to JUST above Linde. Arran costs the same number of turns as Samson, yet he's above ETZEL? Ymir above Maria, again, to being free. Draug and Jeorge switch. Draug is free and can actually be pretty decent. Jeorge costs some 7 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Edited OP with more info. (and I probably still am missing things) I also somehow remembered you get Jeorge during a gaiden, I made this like, at midnight. Lol. Edited November 21, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Where to begin. . . Caeda is way too low. Wing Spear is ridiculous, no matter what mode you're on. Barst over Ogma, because Hammers are amazing. Drop Sedgar to just above Wolf. It's not particularly hard to train either of them, but their bases and weapon levels hold them back. Lena, Roshea, and Caesar out of A tier. The last three units should be Julian, Wendell, and Merric, in that order. Julian is Marth the Second Who Opens Doors, Wendell's bases will carry him for a long time (like, I'm in Chapter 16 and still useful), and Merric is a rare spellcaster that can reclass to a physical unit and do decently (even if he costs a turn). If you insist on putting Jagen in this list, he's top of A tier. He's usable right to the end on NM. It's gonna take too long to shuffle people in and out of B tier, so let me rewrite it for you: Gordin Caesar Draug Castor Roger Radd Roshea Matthis Gordin can reclass to horse/flying, and not be too bad. Caesar and Radd have four turns in the arena, and assuming you're not stupid about it, can level that way. Draug does well as an axe unit, but good luck getting him up to D axes. Castor and Roger aren't particularly hard to recruit, and both do decently. Roshea's biggest problem is his Speed, which you'll need to dedicate a gaiden or two to fix. Ditto Matthis, but with less amazing growths. Oh C tier. . .uhhh. . .Jeorge out to E tier (since no one uses him), put Jake above the sisters (he costs no turns to recruit, can be recruited with minimal risk, and he can wreak havoc on a few endgame chapters), and redo the last three to Lena, Horace, and Tomas. Healers aren't that spectacular in this kind of run (short of gaiden staff spam), Horace's bases will carry him forever, and Tomas needs exactly two levels to promote, if you're that desperate (and sometimes, you are). That means rearrange D tier to Midia, Etzel, Minerva, Elice, Est, and Boah. Midia, at least, is free and promoted (as is Etzel), and Minerva's axe rank is doing more than Elice and Est combined. Boah is free, and if for some weird reason your strategy requires Fortify, he can staff spam his way up to A in the gaidens. That leaves E to Ymir, Astram, Dolph, Macellan, Arran, Samson, Jeorge and Maria. Ymir's bases and axe rank will hold him, Astram's sword rank is handy every now and then, the armors are horribly underleveled but free, the village guys give stuff (like A rank in a weapon that doesn't suck), Jeorge can actually do something with the four turns that you wasted, and Maria is Maria. Sorry Xane, but unless you employ a very specific strategy for Chapter 16, which requires several units, you're dead. I don't feel like messing with that last one. Edited November 21, 2011 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) [spoiler=Changes I would make...]S tier: Frey = Abel = Cain Shiida Barst Ogma Hardin A tier: Jeigan Wolf Sedgar Bord Nabarl Cord Athena Roshea B tier: Castor Julian Draug Gordin Matthis Vyland Norne C tier: Horace Midia Caeser Roger Radd Lena D tier: Astram Tomas Xane Etzel Jake Boah E tier: Ymir Dolph Macellan Fuck'd tier: (no order) Jeorge Wrys Bantu Linde Samson Arran Tiki Maria Minerva Beck Wendall Merric Est Palla Darros Catria Gotoh [spoiler=Massive tldr]Abel, Cain and Frey are are all more or less the same. Cain gets D Lances in the prologue, so it's not an issue. They all murder everything regardless. Shiida moves right under them. She uses the Win Spear early on for kills, then she promotes, and is another Cain/Abel/Frey. She loses because of prologue levelling. Barst above Ogma, because axes > Swords. Jeigan to the top of A, because he exclusively saves turns in earlygame because Silver Lance. He's not to shabby midgame either. Wolf > Sedgar. Seriously, Sedgar doesn't really surpass Wolf ever in NM. They're both invincible after a few levels. I didn't see Bord on their, so I threw him under Wolf Sedgar. Enemy AS is abysmal, and his base speed isn't even that bad. He makes better use of a speedwing that anybody else in the game (in NM, again). Once he promotes to Hero, he's more or less Barst. Nabarl moved down a bit, because he's slow, and doesn't hit that hard. C Swords is nice early on, for Armourslayer and KE use though. Cord above Athena. Athena can fly, but then she has E Lances, and if she stays Myrmidon, Cord has her offence at 1-2 Range. Cord is only below Bord because E Axes. Roshea down, because he has speed issues. He's still better than the other class A's remaining though. Castor up to the top of B, he's not tough to recruit, and his growths are pretty abuseable. Julian drops a bit because he's pretty useless in combat, but chests are nice. Draug way up. He has very nice avaliability, and his offence isn't bad once he gets D Axes/Bows. He's pretty frail unless he gets some defence levels as a Knight. Gaggles down a bit, without statboosters, he's pretty horrid, but he has avaliability and Class A on his side. Matthis up, he's essentially Roshea with worse bases, but slightly better growths. Vyland up. He's not bad upon promotion as a DK. He has some bigtime strength issues though. Norne up. She has avaliability and flight. Her offence might not be great, but it will be equal to somebody like Midia's when Chapter 12 rolls around. Horace up to the top of C. When do other class B units like Caeser or Roger ever surpass him? Caeser needs to be 20/1 to surpass his base strength. He's even better if you toss him an Arms scoll, but that item is contested. Midia down. She doesn't double, but at least she can use the Ridersbane and fly. If you give her a few levels, you might get her doubling as she has a nice speed growth (not bad growths all around, actually). Caeser is underlevelled and has poor strength (or has E Axes), Roger has no weapon ranks. Radd is slow and/or weak, and has E Lances. Lena is useless unless she's a mage or Sage, even then the best she can do is physic and fortify. Astram up because he has instant Silvers and handaxes, which pushes Tomas and Xane down a spot. Note: Xane's value increases exponentially on harder difficulties. Jake and Boah get bumped up, since they aren't useless like those other chumps in E tier. And since this is normal mode, if you cost a turn, you're terrible. Only debateable one is Darros, you might be able to recruit him without a turn loss. Never used him, so idk. Edited November 21, 2011 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I guess that ordering within the tier itself matters quite a bit within the first few, then. (which I didn't pay attention when doing this - it was more like a rough guide on what to base my AI at than a detailed list where I have given thought to all 58 characters in there) Then again, with all this help (and actually not having to go to sleep within 5 minutes), I'll edit it to be better as I see just and fit. Edited November 21, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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