FE: Dawn of Darkness Feedback Thread

[NJ7009]

Hrm, I see.

Quoting you since this thread is pretty dead and you no longer follow it :P

Okay, Ana, I have noticed you mentioning this fic of yours on multiple forums. So, I thought I would finally take the plunge and see what it's all about. I will go over every chapter (when I get the time) and give you the good and the bad.

I should note that while I don't necessarily 'ship' Ike and Elincia, I don't mind the pairing and have quite a bit of experience with their interactions. I should also note that I don't have much experience working with OCs so I can only really give you general impressions. However, I have BETAd many people over the years so hopefully this should go well.

Also, I am not going to go line-by-line. Usually I would, but this work is rather long and I would be here all year. I will just be giving you general points and suggestions in terms of plot.

Right then.

The Good

- Elincia and Geoffrey

In general, I like how you have depicted Elincia (except for that long mourning about Ike bit but I’ll get to that). Your rewrites have improved the problems most readers had with her leaving. Geoffrey was also well done so good job there.

Their goodbye was also heartfelt.

- Inner conflicts

Elincia’s inner-conflicts are interesting, but the way you wrote them is very wordy. You don’t need explain every single little doubt or worry she has, but showing she has conflicting feelings in small doses is interesting to read.

- Azura

I like her. I find it a little implausible that Ike would tell her his entire life story, but I actually surprised myself. Usually I despise OCs but I think it is early days, yet, to sing my praises for her.

Also, a woman called Azura wearing a golden pendant? Wow, you must hate Fates. Maybe they ripped the character from you :P

The Bad

- Characterisation of Ike

Within the first few words of the chapter, Ike is painted as a sort of blushing, stammering lily. Nothing could be further from the game's depiction. Ike never once blushes in the games (at least to my memory) and I can't remember him stammering in normal conversation either. Ike is very forward and to the point - especially with Elincia. He can be nervous but I find it difficult to accept that he would be so shaken by a kiss.

- The cheese factor

Ike and Elincia's romantic relationship is rather... cheesy. Like something from a Shakespearean play. I half expected them to break out in poetry, the sections were so wordy and cliche. You can express them being in love without having to make it seem so forced. You mentioned earlier in the thread that you want to go on to write romance? Such cheesiness ruins those types of books. Focussing on making the actions feel natural without over-analysis is usually the way to go.

Here are a few romantic scenarios which focus on subtlety, to show you what I mean.

"Elincia knotted their fingers together beneath the table. Slowly, Ike's hand relaxed in her palm and her lips curled upwards in content."

"Ike kissed her briefly on the forehead before he headed for the door. Elincia waved and Ike nodded, his smile reaching his eyes as well as his mouth."

Or, for a first kiss... "Ike's eyes scanned her face, a frown creasing his mouth. He slowly leaned forward but didn't move further until Elincia rose to meet him. They both drew in a shuddering breath before they moved.

Their lips met in the centre, the sound of the other's breathing the only sound. Elincia tilted her head a little and he gingerly placed a hand on her waist. As the initial awkwardness passed, Elincia allowed herself to deepen the action."

These are very quick (and certainly not the best) examples but they get my point across. I have gotten across a kiss scene in three lines, while you are still analyzing it half-way through the chapter. That is a little bit too much.

Perhaps the worst part of the first chapter is how long Elincia mourns Ike’s departure – it is extremely boring.

- Overlong Paragraphs

Some of these paragraphs are ridiculously long. Like, you see them and groan inwardly. No paragraph in a story should be seven lines long. Not only are they tricky to read (as it is easy to lose your place) but they lack focus. It doesn’t take seven lines to describe sadness over your lover leaving you.

(I would copy and paste an example from your story and then a reduced version but fanfiction doesn’t allow for it).

- Grammar Errors

This one has been beaten over your head quite a lot but yes, your grammar could you some work. You especially need to shorten your sentences.

- Elincia’s reasons for leaving

They are a bit better than the original draft, however, they still feel implausible. She feels she isn’t good enough for her country? Wasn’t that what her entire arc in RD was about?

I think it would read better if she knows she is good for the country, but views Renning as better for Crimea. Or maybe she feels, since Renning was named heir before her, the crown should be his. Elincia has already gone through an arc in the games where she is self-depreciating. You don’t need to create another

Those are the core points. There are some other issues which I will bring up if they persist. For now, I will just focus on issues on specific chapters rather than the story as a whole.

[Anacybele]

Ah, thanks for the feedback, NJ. I understand, this fic is a monster and I wouldn't expect anyone to critique and comment on every single line or paragraph. XD And I...honestly forgot I had this thread here. I should start updating it again, thanks for quoting me. And by the way, I feel the chapters just get better as you read forward, naturally, since over the years, my skills have improved.

Yeah, I do think you have some good points there. And as for Elincia's reasoning for giving the throne to Renning, what you say actually sounds more like what I was trying to go for, that she knows she's grown stronger, but she feels she'd need to be stronger still to be the leader Crimea needs and that only Renning has that strength, basically. I guess I didn't get that across well enough though.

You can blame the wordiness on my co-author's style. I believe I've mentioned that he's authored some parts of this. My own style alone is actually not nearly as wordy. lol I realize Falchion1984 DOES have a wordy style, but I like it, honestly. It lets the writer go further into detail and that can add depth and stuff. I get that sometimes certain details aren't exactly needed, but they can still be a welcome addition, in my opinion.

Huh, my school teachers always praised my grammar skills (and I mean my writing/literature teachers too). I delete plenty of commas my co-author adds, but he seems yet to get the message here... But maybe some of this is typos too.

And I know, it does feel like Fates took some ideas from my Azura. XD But this Azura's pendant actually looks very different, and so does Azura herself. My Azura would be a Mercenary or Myrmidon with high magic and res if she had a class other than her unique one. I'm glad you like her though! However, I still feel that at the point of the story where I've left off, she's still not as well written as she could be. I think she's turned out to be a good character, but I feel like one of the male leads, Bryan, ended up being more fleshed out and deep. But maybe that's because his character arc is what I'm currently on, and it should finish soon. Azura will be back in the spotlight after that, and hopefully then I can make her even better than she currently is. The other male lead, Leyon, will get a character arc of his own too, though it won't be as big as Bryan's or Azura's.

Oh, Ike didn't actually tell Azura EVERY single little thing, just the important stuff (broken heart, depressed, etc.). Sorry for not being clearer on that.

Thanks for the advice though, and I actually have been thinking of re-writing a little bit of the early chapters once the rest of the fic's chapters are complete. I'll be sure to look at your pointers again when I do so.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

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Edited October 11, 2016 by NJ7009

[NJ7009]

Ah, thanks for the feedback, NJ. I understand, this fic is a monster and I wouldn't expect anyone to critique and comment on every single line or paragraph. XD And I...honestly forgot I had this thread here. I should start updating it again, thanks for quoting me. And by the way, I feel the chapters just get better as you read forward, naturally, since over the years, my skills have improved.

Yeah, I do think you have some good points there. And as for Elincia's reasoning for giving the throne to Renning, what you say actually sounds more like what I was trying to go for, that she knows she's grown stronger, but she feels she'd need to be stronger still to be the leader Crimea needs and that only Renning has that strength, basically. I guess I didn't get that across well enough though.

You can blame the wordiness on my co-author's style. I believe I've mentioned that he's authored some parts of this. My own style alone is actually not nearly as wordy. lol I realize Falchion1984 DOES have a wordy style, but I like it, honestly. It lets the writer go further into detail and that can add depth and stuff. I get that sometimes certain details aren't exactly needed, but they can still be a welcome addition, in my opinion.

Huh, my school teachers always praised my grammar skills (and I mean my writing/literature teachers too). I delete plenty of commas my co-author adds, but he seems yet to get the message here... But maybe some of this is typos too.

And I know, it does feel like Fates took some ideas from my Azura. XD But this Azura's pendant actually looks very different, and so does Azura herself. My Azura would be a Mercenary or Myrmidon with high magic and res if she had a class other than her unique one. I'm glad you like her though! However, I still feel that at the point of the story where I've left off, she's still not as well written as she could be. I think she's turned out to be a good character, but I feel like one of the male leads, Bryan, ended up being more fleshed out and deep. But maybe that's because his character arc is what I'm currently on, and it should finish soon. Azura will be back in the spotlight after that, and hopefully then I can make her even better than she currently is. The other male lead, Leyon, will get a character arc of his own too, though it won't be as big as Bryan's or Azura's.

Oh, Ike didn't actually tell Azura EVERY single little thing, just the important stuff (broken heart, depressed, etc.). Sorry for not being clearer on that.

Thanks for the advice though, and I actually have been thinking of re-writing a little bit of the early chapters once the rest of the fic's chapters are complete. I'll be sure to look at your pointers again when I do so.

No problem :P

The thing is with writing which improves over time is that the first few chapters are the ones which bring in the readers. If the content is bad, then it doesn't matter how much you improve later on. It's good that you are progressing and it is good you are making revisions, but it's always pretty important that the first chapter stands out.

You have indeed mentioned this co-author of yours :) The trick with detailed writing is knowing when details become tedium. See, over-explaining every detail is not fun to read. Most readers don't care about the exact image of a thing - they just want the plot to progress. If Soren had spent several minutes explaining every physical characteristic of the laguz in PoR, people would have grown bored.

I am always of the opinion that details should only really be included if it has story relevance.

Like, say you want to describe a desk:

Simple: My desk was a mess. I picked up my album and turned on the light.

Excessive detail: On the desk, the lamp oversaw my homework and my various school textbooks. My TV was also balanced on my desk, as well as my alarm clock which no longer held batteries and a photo album containing photos of my high school graduation. I switched on my lamp and carefully selected my album from the mess before heading back to bed.

Medium: I stumbled over to the desk and pushed aside my homework to free the photo album. Flicking on the lamp, I returned to my bed.

All three examples show that the desk is cluttered. They all show that the character is going over to the desk and picking up an album and turning on the lamp. However, the simple and medium example show this in one line while the excessively detailed one takes three. If a such a simple task takes so much reading time, the pace of the story becomes pretty stunted too.

Honestly, a similar situation happened with me. In high school, my grammar was praised. Then College comes along and I score a 2 for grammar out of a possible 5 on my first essay.

It is my belief that high school praises students for grammar use purely for including it. See, many students in my class had never touched a comma before they turned 13. So, me, who was already including them in my work, received vast praise. They didn't particularly care that I was abusing the poor commas like no tomorrow.

If you wish, I could teach you and your co-author how to correctly utilize them. It can be a bit tricky without a guideline and some practice to get them down. I am also not the best when it comes to them either, but I'll give it my best go.

Anyway, I will get back to this when I can.

[Anacybele]

Dude, you just reposted the same thing, except with a quote. :P Anyway.

No problem :P

The thing is with writing which improves over time is that the first few chapters are the ones which bring in the readers. If the content is bad, then it doesn't matter how much you improve later on. It's good that you are progressing and it is good you are making revisions, but it's always pretty important that the first chapter stands out.

Oh yes, exactly! That's why I wish to revise those chapters a little, because you're absolutely right, the first chapters pull the reader into the story, and if they don't find them interesting, they won't want to continue. It's just that for the sake of those who've already read further and to the current point, I want to update as quickly as I can and finish the story. I don't want to leave those readers hanging, they want more. :P And given how many people have reviewed it and enjoyed it so far, well...I think that'd be a lot of readers.

You have indeed mentioned this co-author of yours :) The trick with detailed writing is knowing when details become tedium. See, over-explaining every detail is not fun to read. Most readers don't care about the exact image of a thing - they just want the plot to progress. If Soren had spent several minutes explaining every physical characteristic of the laguz in PoR, people would have grown bored.

I am always of the opinion that details should only really be included if it has story relevance.

Like, say you want to describe a desk:

Simple: My desk was a mess. I picked up my album and turned on the light.

Excessive detail: On the desk, the lamp oversaw my homework and my various school textbooks. My TV was also balanced on my desk, as well as my alarm clock which no longer held batteries and a photo album containing photos of my high school graduation. I switched on my lamp and carefully selected my album from the mess before heading back to bed.

Medium: I stumbled over to the desk and pushed aside my homework to free the photo album. Flicking on the lamp, I returned to my bed.

All three examples show that the desk is cluttered. They all show that the character is going over to the desk and picking up an album and turning on the lamp. However, the simple and medium example show this in one line while the excessively detailed one takes three. If a such a simple task takes so much reading time, the pace of the story becomes pretty stunted too.

I understand you here, but I'd say that the line you listed as simple is not very good because I think it tells more than shows. You want to show in your writing rather than tell, so your readers can get a clear image of what's going on. If you just say the desk is messy, then how is it messy? Is it cluttered with papers? Garbage? Purple and green goo? We don't know, so we can't paint a picture in our minds. :P I think the other two lines you listed were both fine though. But I understand if one prefers the less wordy one. I like to look for a fine line myself on what's too wordy and what isn't.

Honestly, a similar situation happened with me. In high school, my grammar was praised. Then College comes along and I score a 2 for grammar out of a possible 5 on my first essay.

It is my belief that high school praises students for grammar use purely for including it. See, many students in my class had never touched a comma before they turned 13. So, me, who was already including them in my work, received vast praise. They didn't particularly care that I was abusing the poor commas like no tomorrow.

If you wish, I could teach you and your co-author how to correctly utilize them. It can be a bit tricky without a guideline and some practice to get them down. I am also not the best when it comes to them either, but I'll give it my best go.

Anyway, I will get back to this when I can.

Thing is, I was also including college teachers when I said teachers. I remember doing pretty well in the writing class I had when I was in college and I don't recall getting any bad marks on grammar or anything. So thanks, but I don't think it's that hard to use commas correctly. I don't know if my co-author would go along with this anyway and I'd feel awkward going up to him and saying "hey, this guy wants to teach commas!" xP I appreciate the offer though.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

Dude, you just reposted the same thing, except with a quote. :P Anyway.

Yeah, my computer kinda' glitched out and posted twice :P I just rolled with it.

I understand you here, but I'd say that the line you listed as simple is not very good because I think it tells more than shows. You want to show in your writing rather than tell, so your readers can get a clear image of what's going on. If you just say the desk is messy, then how is it messy? Is it cluttered with papers? Garbage? Purple and green goo? We don't know, so we can't paint a picture in our minds. :P I think the other two lines you listed were both fine though. But I understand if one prefers the less wordy one. I like to look for a fine line myself on what's too wordy and what isn't.

Alright, I think I see a slight problem here.

You are right. The first example does tell more than show but for something so insignificant as the state of the desk, telling is not a bad thing. If used with limits, telling is a completely valid story-telling technique. That is something I learned a long time down the line. Despite how it's beaten over writer's heads, you don't need to show every single detail about the environment. The reader is entirely capable of drawing conclusions on their own.

Even in that first chapter I just read, you said things like Elincia 'laughed' or Ike 'smiled'. You didn't show the reader that Ike was smiling, you outright said it. And that is fine, if that is not done to excess.

The 'Simple' example simply states the state of the desk because it is irrelevant. The reader only needs a rough idea. The album and the light are what's important, so the scene quickly moves along instead of wasting time. The 'Medium' example does this while being less blatant. The 'Detailed' forces the reader to slog through a long description.

Thing is, I was also including college teachers when I said teachers. I remember doing pretty well in the writing class I had when I was in college and I don't recall getting any bad marks on grammar or anything. So thanks, but I don't think it's that hard to use commas correctly. I don't know if my co-author would go along with this anyway and I'd feel awkward going up to him and saying "hey, this guy wants to teach commas!" xP I appreciate the offer though.

Haha, I understand British and American colleges are very different things though :P

I suppose I see your point about the commas, but still. Try to reign them in (even if they are your co-writers errors).

[Anacybele]

Yeah, my computer kinda' glitched out and posted twice :P I just rolled with it.

Oh, I see. lol It happens. :P

Alright, I think I see a slight problem here.

You are right. The first example does tell more than show but for something so insignificant as the state of the desk, telling is not a bad thing. If used with limits, telling is a completely valid story-telling technique. That is something I learned a long time down the line. Despite how it's beaten over writer's heads, you don't need to show every single detail about the environment. The reader is entirely capable of drawing conclusions on their own.

Even in that first chapter I just read, you said things like Elincia 'laughed' or Ike 'smiled'. You didn't show the reader that Ike was smiling, you outright said it. And that is fine, if that is not done to excess.

The 'Simple' example simply states the state of the desk because it is irrelevant. The reader only needs a rough idea. The album and the light are what's important, so the scene quickly moves along instead of wasting time. The 'Medium' example does this while being less blatant. The 'Detailed' forces the reader to slog through a long description.

Oh, now I see what you're saying. You're right, just saying "Elincia laughed" or "Ike smiled" is fine, and not EVERY single detail needs to be written, but I think it'd be rather hard to show those things rather than tell them, yet I don't think it's so hard to show a messy desk. I guess we just have slightly differing views here.

But I do get your point.

Haha, I understand British and American colleges are very different things though :P

I suppose I see your point about the commas, but still. Try to reign them in (even if they are your co-writers errors).

Yeah, they probably are. :P And of course!

The main method I use for figuring out exactly where a comma should and shouldn't go, btw (other than obvious rules like putting one right before the word "but" of course), is speaking the sentence myself and seeing if it sounds proper/correct/whatever or not. If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever, then I figure a comma would be incorrect and vice versa.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

Oh, now I see what you're saying. You're right, just saying "Elincia laughed" or "Ike smiled" is fine, and not EVERY single detail needs to be written, but I think it'd be rather hard to show those things rather than tell them, yet I don't think it's so hard to show a messy desk. I guess we just have slightly differing views here.

But I do get your point.

Eh, it can be tricky to show those things, I agree. However, there are ways you can do it. For example, saying something like:

'Ike tilted his head back and barked out a sound which vibrated in his throat.

'Elincia's lips tilted upwards, revealing white teeth.'

But, then again, being that descriptive can get excessive if done too much.

Okay, baring in mind your preference for little details, I will only criticise your wordy sections if it gets a bit over the top. I will also nitpick these sections and try to help you get the pacing right. When you use a lot of description, it is not uncommon for pacing to get a bit botched. Sound fair? :P

The main method I use for figuring out exactly where a comma should and shouldn't go, btw (other than obvious rules like putting one right before the word "but" of course), is speaking the sentence myself and seeing if it sounds proper/correct/whatever or not. If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever, then I figure a comma would be incorrect and vice versa.

This is the same method to how I use to work out comma placings. It is fine when you are just starting to work out how to utilize grammar, but it is an unreliable method overall.

Commas are used to separate clauses. Specifically, the Independent clause from the Dependant clause. In other words, if one part of the sentence doesn't quite fit with the sentence before it you put a comma. (There are, of course, other rules but this is the basic rule).

For example:

'I walked down the path, patting down my clothes as I went.'

However, if you simply judge comma placings based off sound, you can wind up putting too many commas in. Even in the quote above you put a comma before 'btw' but this is incorrect. You also put another after 'whatever' and that is also wrong based off this rule.

It's tricky to explain (I myself am far from an expert) but your method is unreliable is what I'm basically trying to say. I would recommend looking into comma placings online.

I do enjoy a bit of grammar analysis, if you can't already tell :P

[NJ7009]

Okay, so chapter 2.

The Good

"And tell her what? Let's make out?"

Yes, this line gets a spot in the 'Good' section. It took me quite off-guard XD

The Bandit/Ike exchange

I like that bit. I think Ike was knocked unconscious a little too quickly though. The exchange itself was good.

I also liked the Ike/Elincia reunion. It was pretty sweet.

The Bad:

Exposition

Or, namely, the way you have gone about exposition. This was also a problem in the last chapter, although it is less bad here. You enter the chapter and the reader is immediately told everything Ike and Ranulf have been up to, as well as the current state of things. My issue isn't so much that you have done this, but the fact it's the first thing the reader sees. The first words of a chapter should try to catch the reader's attention and get them interested in what's happening. It doesn't need to be majorly interesting, but enticing enough to get them to read on. Especially at chapter 2.

Inner Thoughts

In Chapter 1, I mentioned that these sections could get wordy?

Well, they got wordy again ;p

Stating things

You have a tendency to state things outright instead of using things like sound to bring readers into your world.

For example, you said: "Ike was shaken back to attention when he heard Ranulf drop his empty plate."

But it would be more interesting if you did something like: "There was a clash and Ike blinked, snapped from his thoughts. Ranulf threw his empty plate upon the pile."

This is actually a pretty major flaw in your writing, more than this little section makes it out to be. The one you wrote feels almost robotic in nature.

And this leads me to...

Robotic Style

Your style has good points, but it feels robotic in places. You state too much and, for all our talk of tell don't show, you do a lot of telling. You say Ranulf attaches his bag to his waist but you don't show the action. Like in my point above, you say 'Ranulf dropped his empty plate'. You don't show it through sound or sight.

For example:

You said: "He grabbed his beige handbag, strapped it around his waist as usual."

My suggestion: Ranulf selected his handbag from the centre of the table, pulling at the straps to secure them to his waist. It was something he often did.

Or: Ranulf clutched the smooth leather in his hands as he tightened the buckle.

I don't know if this issue is just an early chapter thing, but it needs to be revised badly if that's the case.

The lack of 'Said'

You seem to be avoiding this word like the plague. 'Said' is a useful word in writing because it is a word our eyes have been trained to skip over. Words like 'informed' 'complained' ect should only be used rarely as the come across as stiff after a while.

Over-explanation

This is an odd problem you have developed here. I think my problem can be summarised with this line:

"Gosh, he'll be so happy to see you."

"As will I," Elincia concurred, a bright smile dawning on her features at the prospect of seeing Ike.

You have basically explained she is smiling because she is excited to see Ike, after she outright admits it. 'A bright smile dawning on her features' is good enough on its own. You do this a couple of times so be careful.

A lack of ambiguity

"They returned to find the camp in ruins"

"Just as he thought, Elincia was racing down the path towards him."

You could make many scenes more suspenseful if you don't say what is going on right away. It's a bit of a cliche, but saying a figure with green hair was barrelling towards Ranulf without immediately saying that it's Elincia is more interesting than what you have done.

Pacing

Oh boy.

Worst thing about this chapter was the pacing. In this chapter Ike mopes for a bit, Ranulf meets Elincia in town, Ike is attacked, R and E return to find the remains of the attack; find Ike and Ike and Elincia are reunited. All in about 3,000 words.

That is way too fast. Exchanges pass by so quickly that it leaves the reader a little bit swept off their feet. Take your time. Embrace scenes like the one where Ike is attacked and fill it with tension, instead of rushing through it to get to the next part.

There are also issues again with your grammar (but I expected this) and your really long paragraphs. I won't go into this again as I have done so already in the last comment but I mention this again as a reminder.

This chapter, at it's core, isn't too bad but it moves so quickly that it becomes messy. The content is more interesting in this chapter, but Chapter 1 executes its content better than Chapter 2 so it gets more approval from me.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I think at least a good bit of what you're pointing out here is from these being early chapters written ages ago. :P I do agree with some of the points and wish I'd done better there.

Though if this wasn't an early chapter, I might feel rather discouraged. The stuff you pointed out that was good were ideas my co-author came up with... Not my own brainstorming.

But writing can be robotic? That certainly never occurred to me before. I mean, I know you can make characters sound robotic but not other parts of writing. Huh...

Those commas you said were incorrect though, are not incorrect as far as I've seen. I see people use a comma in sentences start with "If" all the time. There's a small pause in your speech in these like every time. For example "If you're going home, can you empty the dishwasher?" Doesn't that sound natural to you? And I always see people put a comma after "by the way" (or btw for short) too. It feels more natural. So I'm sorry I can't not use commas this way. It's more correct as far as I've learned.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

Yeah, I think at least a good bit of what you're pointing out here is from these being early chapters written ages ago. :P I do agree with some of the points and wish I'd done better there.

At least you can look back on it and see how much you've improved. That's what I always think whenever I feel unhappy with older fics.

Though if this wasn't an early chapter, I might feel rather discouraged. The stuff you pointed out that was good were ideas my co-author came up with... Not my own brainstorming.

If you are referring solely to the things I put in the 'Good' bit, I wouldn't feel too discouraged. The plot was decent for the chapter. If you look at what I put in the bad sections, I don't criticise the plot or the characters. I criticised the execution. The ideas you have for this plot are not bad. You pretty clearly have an idea in your mind of what you're going for and it is entertaining. However, your writing style could use more work in these early chapters.

Also, it is not a bad thing to feel discouraged every once in a while. It is good to be able to look at your work and see its flaws (or have flaws pointed out to you). There have been times where I have written stories, enjoyed them, then returned the next day and just seen problems. Being dissatisfied leads to improvement. It's satisfaction that squanders writing potential.

But writing can be robotic? That certainly never occurred to me before. I mean, I know you can make characters sound robotic but not other parts of writing. Huh...

Of course :P

I have a question for you, Ana. Do you read a lot?

Those commas you said were incorrect though, are not incorrect as far as I've seen. I see people use a comma in sentences start with "If" all the time. There's a small pause in your speech in these like every time. For example "If you're going home, can you empty the dishwasher?" Doesn't that sound natural to you? And I always see people put a comma after "by the way" (or btw for short) too. It feels more natural. So I'm sorry I can't not use commas this way. It's more correct as far as I've learned.

I'm not saying that method does not work at all. However, every single time there is a small pause in a sentence doesn't mean you have to put a comma. You will end up putting too many commas down.

I would also note that in that example you gave, you are using two clauses. You are using a comma to separate those two clauses so that's correct grammar use. So, yes, it sounds natural because it's right XD

I don't know what you mean with the 'If' example. You can't decide whether or not a comma is needed based on a single word.

You can continue like that if you wish but it is incorrect. This isn't even an opinion on my part - many of your uses of the comma are wrong. A professional editor would tell you the exact same thing.

I'm telling you this not because I want to make you feel bad. That is not my intention. I want you to improve because I have a feeling you want to improve, too. Fixing your comma usage is how you are going to improve. I know you are passionate about this fic of yours and if you it to be the best it can be, you are going to have to work on this.

[Anacybele]

At least you can look back on it and see how much you've improved. That's what I always think whenever I feel unhappy with older fics.

Yeah, this much is definitely true.

If you are referring solely to the things I put in the 'Good' bit, I wouldn't feel too discouraged. The plot was decent for the chapter. If you look at what I put in the bad sections, I don't criticise the plot or the characters. I criticised the execution. The ideas you have for this plot are not bad. You pretty clearly have an idea in your mind of what you're going for and it is entertaining. However, your writing style could use more work in these early chapters.

Also, it is not a bad thing to feel discouraged every once in a while. It is good to be able to look at your work and see its flaws (or have flaws pointed out to you). There have been times where I have written stories, enjoyed them, then returned the next day and just seen problems. Being dissatisfied leads to improvement. It's satisfaction that squanders writing potential.

Right, I get that plot and characters seem to be my strong point. But I've been writing for years, and with the help of a co-author. You'd think my execution by this time would be just as good.

I have a question for you, Ana. Do you read a lot?

I read on occasion, but not much. I just find writing to be a lot more fun most of the time. And generally, I can't interpret or understand many books to save my life. I always did pretty badly in literature courses in school because of this. If I had homework where I had to answer questions about a play or book I was reading, I couldn't answer them well at all. I just couldn't figure out how to. Is this hindering my ability to write? If so, I guess I've hit a ceiling here. I just can't grasp literature the way I just described.

I don't know what you mean with the 'If' example. You can't decide whether or not a comma is needed based on a single word.

I mean that you said a sentence I wrote that started with "If" was wrong, yet you said the example I wrote, also starting with "If" was right.

And right now, I just don't feel the need to change the way I use commas at all. Maybe in the future.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Anacybele

[Shuuda]

I read on occasion, but not much. I just find writing to be a lot more fun most of the time. And generally, I can't interpret or understand many books to save my life. I always did pretty badly in literature courses in school because of this. If I had homework where I had to answer questions about a play or book I was reading, I couldn't answer them well at all. I just couldn't figure out how to. Is this hindering my ability to write? If so, I guess I've hit a ceiling here. I just can't grasp literature the way I just described.

The blunt answer is yes, not reading a lot is hindering your own ability to write.

Think of it this way; the style in which you draw is inspired heavily by the art style of the Tellius FE games. Since you're a fan of those games I assume you've played them plenty, and thus exposed yourself to the visual design of the characters a lot. If you'd never played those games or seen the art your drawings would be very different.

It's the same with writing. The way in which you develop a writing style is influenced by the authors you enjoy the works of. If you don't read then you don't expose yourself to any styles to learn from. It'd be like trying to make music without enjoy the music of others. That might be the reason why your writing comes off as "robotic".

The good news is that I don't think your performance at school should dictate your ability to understand literature or enjoy it. I'm guessing at school you were given mandatory texts that you didn't get to choose yourself. It could be the case that you struggled at school because you didn't connect with the kind of texts you were given. I guess it's a case of finding an author you geninuely enjoy enough to want to read.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Shuuda

[Anacybele]

I see. Well, right now, the only series I enjoy reading a lot is Nancy Drew. Which I'd say is generally aimed at preteens, maybe teenagers. It's a mystery series that doesn't really have many mature themes, but there are scenes where someone is close to dying on occasion. There have even been characters using guns (in Uncivil Acts, for example, where a plot point was a Civil War re-enactment, where the bad guy smuggled real bullets into his gun during the event and actually attempted to shoot someone with them until Nancy intervened). Sometimes the bad guys even attempt to kill Nancy herself! Be it by throwing her from a ship to the ocean, leaving her trapped somewhere to starve, or some other crazy method.

DoD is more mature than this though, so I don't really think it's the right series to go by here. At the same time, I'm not really wanting to read mature stuff because it tends to have more mature moments than even DoD has (more blood, more violence, more sexual themes, etc) and I'm not into that. DoD is mature, but not THAT mature.

[NJ7009]

I read on occasion, but not much. I just find writing to be a lot more fun most of the time. And generally, I can't interpret or understand many books to save my life. I always did pretty badly in literature courses in school because of this. If I had homework where I had to answer questions about a play or book I was reading, I couldn't answer them well at all. I just couldn't figure out how to. Is this hindering my ability to write? If so, I guess I've hit a ceiling here. I just can't grasp literature the way I just described.

Basically, the person above is right. Every writer (or at least, professional writer) you will come across reads. Guaranteed. If you ask someone for writing advice, they will say read a book. To gain inspiration from other writers.

I see. Well, right now, the only series I enjoy reading a lot is Nancy Drew. Which I'd say is generally aimed at preteens, maybe teenagers. It's a mystery series that doesn't really have many mature themes, but there are scenes where someone is close to dying on occasion. There have even been characters using guns (in Uncivil Acts, for example, where a plot point was a Civil War re-enactment, where the bad guy smuggled real bullets into his gun during the event and actually attempted to shoot someone with them until Nancy intervened). Sometimes the bad guys even attempt to kill Nancy herself! Be it by throwing her from a ship to the ocean, leaving her trapped somewhere to starve, or some other crazy method.

DoD is more mature than this though, so I don't really think it's the right series to go by here. At the same time, I'm not really wanting to read mature stuff because it tends to have more mature moments than even DoD has (more blood, more violence, more sexual themes, etc) and I'm not into that. DoD is mature, but not THAT mature.

Honestly, so many books fit the criteria I don't even know where to start. It all depends on what you like in a book.

Ender's Game is a pretty good book. However, it is Sci-Fi and has no romance in it so it might not be your taste. Still could be worth a read, though, just to venture into something different. That book has no sexual themes but there is quite a bit of blood and violence. Not overly graphic but it's there.

I would also recommend Tolkein (you know, the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings ect). His works are brilliant but there is death and violence so be warned.

You could also venture into other fanfics on fanfiction.net and AO3, especially works with high favs/kudos. Generally I would recommend AO3, though, as the writing quality on that site seems a lot better overall than fanfiction. I would recommend you writers but we like different things in pairings so it's tricky. You should also consider that fanfiction writers, like you, commonly make errors so don't follow these like the law.

However, the more popular ones should generally be pretty decent at execution.

I mean that you said a sentence I wrote that started with "If" was wrong, yet you said the example I wrote, also starting with "If" was right.

And right now, I just don't feel the need to change the way I use commas at all. Maybe in the future.

The sentence wasn't wrong because of the 'If'. Neither was your 'btw' wrong for that reason either.

"If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever, then I figure a comma would be incorrect and vice versa." This is what you wrote. The comma here is not needed because there are no two clauses.

"If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever then I figure a comma would be incorrect and vice versa." This makes perfect sense grammatically.

As I said, you don't have to change. I can't make you change your comma usage. I'm simply saying that it is incorrect, that's all. If you wish to continue that way that is your choice.

Edited October 14, 2016 by NJ7009

[Anacybele]

I'm not into Sci-Fi. I know about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I've seen some of the movies, and I'm not interested in them either. This stuff is not my thing. I also don't like Harry Potter much (before you go recommending that one).

Fanfiction.net is mainly low quality writing, like you say.

Sorry to turn down all your recommendations, but this is just how it is.

That sentence without the comma doesn't make sense to me grammatically, so I don't understand why you say it's incorrect. And why is "If you're going home" a clause, but the similar "If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever" is not?

Edited October 14, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

I'm not into Sci-Fi. I know about The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, I've seen some of the movies, and I'm not interested in them either. This stuff is not my thing. I also don't like Harry Potter much (before you go recommending that one).

Fanfiction.net is mainly low quality writing, like you say.

Sorry to turn down all your recommendations, but this is just how it is.

That sentence without the comma doesn't make sense to me grammatically, so I don't understand why you say it's incorrect. And why is "If you're going home" a clause, but the similar "If it sounds weird/awkward/whatever" is not?

I took a little look over at AO3 and found this :

https://archiveofourown.org/works/3964702

It's a reflective one-shot about unrequited Elincia/Ike. It is only short so it will not be a massive waste of time if you don't like it. The commas usage in this one is pretty bad (so don't try to copy them) but the actual plot content itself is rather good and it has nice flow. So, this might be a good place to start.

Also, it is pretty clear that trying to explain commas to you in this format is going to be difficult on us both. Look up commas on Google; no doubt they can put it in a clearer way.

[Anacybele]

Wow, poor Elincia in that. :( But I didn't really like it, not simply because Ike couldn't love her back here, but more because it was just...so short and uninteresting. It was probably the lack of dialogue. I'm used to reading longer stuff and stuff that has dialogue. But it does do well in executing Elincia's heartbreak (can't imagine how she brought herself to produce a kid with Geoffrey through all that, even if she would need an heir to the throne...).

[NJ7009]

Wow, poor Elincia in that. :( But I didn't really like it, not simply because Ike couldn't love her back here, but more because it was just...so short and uninteresting. It was probably the lack of dialogue. I'm used to reading longer stuff and stuff that has dialogue. But it does do well in executing Elincia's heartbreak (can't imagine how she brought herself to produce a kid with Geoffrey through all that, even if she would need an heir to the throne...).

I liked that story more because it flows very well. Her thoughts seem natural and whirring, instead of set in clear stages.

But if long and with dialogue is what you want: https://archiveofourown.org/works/744164

This story is a bit interesting, as it's style is far from conventional. It is fragmented and vague. However, it still works very well. If you can get behind the style, then this is a good read.

Honestly, it is a bit tricky to recommend fics for you. Elincia/Ike is a rarity on Ao3.

[Anacybele]

It's a rarity there? That's unfortunate. :( I'm inclined to think shipping's not done on this site much in general though, given what you've told me. So far, the shipping has been unrequited, but rather vaguely, and this second one had only small hints.

But ooh, yes, this was very good! I had trouble understanding what some of the stuff in parenthesis meant, but I suppose this is a style I just don't see much and thus am not used to it or anything. But I'm starting to understand more about what you're talking about on execution. And see, a little dialogue doesn't hurt. I feel it establishes the characters more. I don't want to just know what they're thinking, I want to know how they handle their thoughts around others too, by seeing just how much of these thoughts they actually say.

And speaking of recommending fics, you don't have to just look for Ike x Elincia. I like Kieran x Marcia and Freddy x Female Avatar as well, and heck, it doesn't even need to have shipping at all. I can enjoy a story that doesn't have romance. XD

And DoD is actually only around...20% romance, I'd say. Ike and Elincia's arc here ends in due time and they kinda drop off the radar for Azura and her arc to officially start (and later Bryan and Leyon's as well).

Edited October 15, 2016 by Anacybele

[NJ7009]

It's a rarity there? That's unfortunate. :( I'm inclined to think shipping's not done on this site much in general though, given what you've told me. So far, the shipping has been unrequited, but rather vaguely, and this second one had only small hints.

But ooh, yes, this was very good! I had trouble understanding what some of the stuff in parenthesis meant, but I suppose this is a style I just don't see much and thus am not used to it or anything. But I'm starting to understand more about what you're talking about on execution. And see, a little dialogue doesn't hurt. I feel it establishes the characters more. I don't want to just know what they're thinking, I want to know how they handle their thoughts around others too, by seeing just how much of these thoughts they actually say.

And speaking of recommending fics, you don't have to just look for Ike x Elincia. I like Kieran x Marcia and Freddy x Female Avatar as well, and heck, it doesn't even need to have shipping at all. I can enjoy a story that doesn't have romance. XD

And DoD is actually only around...20% romance, I'd say. Ike and Elincia's arc here ends in due time and they kinda drop off the radar for Azura and her arc to officially start (and later Bryan and Leyon's as well).

It's not so much that shipping isn't done there. However, let's just say that Ao3 is referred to as 'Slash Central' for a reason. To put things into perspective, the Elincia pairing with the most works is Elincia/Lucia... so yeah. Generally I don't care much for romance in stories but I will read about any pairing as long as the work itself is good.

Honestly, I struggled with understanding certain sections because the writer went a little too vague but the work itself is pretty good.

I shall bare that in mind for future recommendations :)

It's more tricky, though, because I don't really know what you like in a book. Nancy Drew isn't really a lot to go off :P I have gathered you like dialogue-ridden pieces which are sizable so I'll keep an eye out for those things. And I mostly recommend romance stories because I know you have a favouritism for them XD

But, for my reference, are there any characters you would like me to avoid giving you works of? Like works based around Illyana, for example. I think I remember you mentioning once that you are not a fan of Soren but works about him (or works which have him as a central player) are especially common.

Edited October 15, 2016 by NJ7009

[Anacybele]

It's not so much that shipping isn't done there. However, let's just say that Ao3 is referred to as 'Slash Central' for a reason. To put things into perspective, the Elincia pairing with the most works is Elincia/Lucia... so yeah. Generally I don't care much for romance in stories but I will read about any pairing as long as the work itself is good.

Honestly, I struggled with understanding certain sections because the writer went a little too vague but the work itself is pretty good.

I shall bare that in mind for future recommendations :)

It's more tricky, though, because I don't really know what you like in a book. Nancy Drew isn't really a lot to go off :P I have gathered you like dialogue-ridden pieces which are sizable so I'll keep an eye out for those things. And I mostly recommend romance stories because I know you have a favouritism for them XD

But, for my reference, are there any characters you would like me to avoid giving you works of? Like works based around Illyana, for example. I think I remember you mentioning once that you are not a fan of Soren but works about him (or works which have him as a central player) are especially common.

Huh, that's rather surprising. Though those two ARE really close, so I suppose it wouldn't have really been all that out there if IS had gone that route.

Nancy Drew is still well written for its kind of work though, imo. But yeah, I don't think it's the best thing for me in particular to go off of either. Won't stop me from reading them, though (I need to buy more books from it...again. lol). :P

Yep, I love romance and mystery, and double the fun if the story has both. :D (unless it's also tragedy... I just can't do that one very often).

Well, yeah, I don't like Soren at all. I can see why he appeals to others (he's a pretty deep character and stuff), but I just can't stand how much of an SOB he is sometimes. I also hate Mia (I hate her even more than Soren these days). And I'm still not a big fan of Geoffrey, but I...must admit that I've always tried to like him. He actually fits one kind of character I tend to like (handsome and chivalrous knights), so yeah. I still wouldn't try looking for fics where he's a prominent character though, because I feel they would just be totally hit or miss. I don't care much for Awakening-related stuff unless Freddy Bear <3 is the central/major character. As for Fates, Ryoma and Silas are <3 and I don't care too much about anyone else in the game. GBA FE...I only really like Ephraim and Sain a lot (and I have preferred pairs for them too, Tana and Fiora, though sadly, the latter seems to be rare no matter where you go...).

[NJ7009]

Huh, that's rather surprising. Though those two ARE really close, so I suppose it wouldn't have really been all that out there if IS had gone that route.

Nancy Drew is still well written for its kind of work though, imo. But yeah, I don't think it's the best thing for me in particular to go off of either. Won't stop me from reading them, though (I need to buy more books from it...again. lol). :P

Yep, I love romance and mystery, and double the fun if the story has both. :D (unless it's also tragedy... I just can't do that one very often).

Well, yeah, I don't like Soren at all. I can see why he appeals to others (he's a pretty deep character and stuff), but I just can't stand how much of an SOB he is sometimes. I also hate Mia (I hate her even more than Soren these days). And I'm still not a big fan of Geoffrey, but I...must admit that I've always tried to like him. He actually fits one kind of character I tend to like (handsome and chivalrous knights), so yeah. I still wouldn't try looking for fics where he's a prominent character though, because I feel they would just be totally hit or miss. I don't care much for Awakening-related stuff unless Freddy Bear <3 is the central/major character. As for Fates, Ryoma and Silas are <3 and I don't care too much about anyone else in the game. GBA FE...I only really like Ephraim and Sain a lot (and I have preferred pairs for them too, Tana and Fiora, though sadly, the latter seems to be rare no matter where you go...).

Yeah, Elincia and Lucia are as close as Geoffrey and Elincia. And Geoffrey is Elincia's only paired ending. It is easy to see why it is interpreted that way :P

Oh really :P Soren is my favourite Fire Emblem character period XD. I think he reacts and interacts with people very much how a person would after years of emotional abuse. Then again, I can see why a person wouldn't like him. He can be a bit of a douche. Mia I only like because of her support chain with Largo - she is pretty bland to me otherwise. Geoffrey is okay in his Calil support... I have pretty meh feelings about him.

So Fredrick, Ryoma, Silas, Ephraim and Sain. Got it. I won't expect many Ephraim/Tana fics from me though since he seems so unattentive in their supports but I don't care whether or not you like it or not. Fiora and Sain, though, are one of my favourites from GBA FE so I would expect a couple of them if I see them.

I'll probably get onto Chapter 3 in the morning.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, exactly. I find Elincia and her relationship with Geoffrey and Lucia to be pretty endearing. It's always awesome to be so close to those who are your family, even if they're not actually blood relatives. I can relate to her this way because I grew up with stepbrothers and a stepfather. They're to me like Geoffrey and Lucia are to Elincia. At least, that's how I interpreted it, and it's probably a reason WHY I interpreted it that way.

Yeah, the only reason I hate Mia more is because Soren at least has depth and an interesting backstory. Mia's got...an obsession with sword skills and ugly hair and a derpy face (to me anyway and she's the only Tellius design that I don't like in some way). That's it. xP

Yep, you got it! Btw, I also have a fic that features Sain x Fiora on here, you might like it. :) Though it's more about the family rather than romance, as well as Sain's friendship with Kent. But my co-author hasn't gotten his hands on it, so it's vanilla Ana writing. Yet, I feel my main weakness is the ratio of dialogue to description. The big difference between my writing and Falchion1984's is that he does a lot more description and I mean a LOT. I do a lot more dialogue and sometimes I feel I have too much compared to description. I think it's an issue with this fic in a few parts. I always thought this is why Falchion and I did so well together, because he helps my description problem while I can still go strong with dialogue (and balance it all out more).

Mkay.

[NJ7009]

Yeah, exactly. I find Elincia and her relationship with Geoffrey and Lucia to be pretty endearing. It's always awesome to be so close to those who are your family, even if they're not actually blood relatives. I can relate to her this way because I grew up with stepbrothers and a stepfather. They're to me like Geoffrey and Lucia are to Elincia. At least, that's how I interpreted it, and it's probably a reason WHY I interpreted it that way.

Yeah, the only reason I hate Mia more is because Soren at least has depth and an interesting backstory. Mia's got...an obsession with sword skills and ugly hair and a derpy face (to me anyway and she's the only Tellius design that I don't like in some way). That's it. xP

Yep, you got it! Btw, I also have a fic that features Sain x Fiora on here, you might like it. :) Though it's more about the family rather than romance, as well as Sain's friendship with Kent. But my co-author hasn't gotten his hands on it, so it's vanilla Ana writing. Yet, I feel my main weakness is the ratio of dialogue to description. The big difference between my writing and Falchion1984's is that he does a lot more description and I mean a LOT. I do a lot more dialogue and sometimes I feel I have too much compared to description. I think it's an issue with this fic in a few parts. I always thought this is why Falchion and I did so well together, because he helps my description problem while I can still go strong with dialogue (and balance it all out more).

Mkay.

Looking back over my errors yesterday, you can tell I was half asleep :3 I love uni living!

Okay, so I looked over chapter 3 and I came to a sort of realisation (that I probably should have considered before I started critiquing this fic, considering the sections I am reading have been completed for a long time).

A lot of the issues I had with the first two chapters are present still in Chapter 3. The exposition dump at the start of the chapter, the excessive statement of things and the over-explanation. Maybe my advice would have been more useful if you were currently writing, say, chapter 4 and you could continue writing with my suggestions in mind, however.

Now, however, this is a 35 chapter long fic and these errors are going to continue throughout the majority of it. I worry if I constantly say the issues, it will become redundant.

I think I may just go over and read your Sain/Fiora fic and wait until you make revisions. Or, I could just give general chapter impressions. Or both.

Do you have a thread for your Sain fic?