Little Shoppe of Sprites and Graphics

[Zeth]

Merely pointing out exceptions.

And there are others I expect (ergo "amongst others"), given I must have had a reason for doing it in the first place. Point being, three chosen at semi-random all having shorter than average heads lends credence to 47 pixels being a lower minimum rather than 48.

As it is, her width also seems to be ok going by some other chars with similar angles to their heads, so I'm first going to mess around with the facial features, and then repost it to see how it fits on the head remaining the same size. Reassess at that point.

Something else I've noticed though is that she does not have a womanly sized ear, which may throw off the perception of the rest of her head in comparison. I'll work on that too.

EDIT:

...gawd that ear is FUGLY.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zeth

[Nanami Touko]

Merely pointing out exceptions.

And there are others I expect (ergo "amongst others"), given I must have had a reason for doing it in the first place. Point being, three chosen at semi-random all having shorter than average heads lends credence to 47 pixels being a lower minimum rather than 48.

They're... not exceptions. That's how it works when you tilt the heads back at that angle. It removes some of the height because of the way the sprite is facing, a 3/4 angle towards the player. Your mug isn't tilting its head back, so the head shouldn't be 47 pixels tall, but 48-49. It's pretty much that simple.

EDIT: In fact, yours is tilting forward a bit, which means it would definitely need to be at least 48-49.

EDIT2: To further illustrate my point on the tilt, if you look at Rennac, who is at the most extreme back tilt, you'll see that his head is only 43 pixels tall, but it looks fine. That's because of the angle of the mug, and the tilt of the head.

As for ears, bottom of the nose to the top of the eye, or the eyebrows, depending on how large you want the ear to be. But they should be at least nose to top of eye.

Edited February 13, 2012 by seph1212

[Chocolate Kitty]

!!

You're Mew and want to make maps for my project?

You made my terrible week a significant amount better just now.

...I will definitely be PMing you sometime this week.

I'll probably still want to fish for another mapper so you can check each other, but yes. I've seen you improve over time, and you have good concepts.

EDIT: Conceptual execution, to be more accurate.

feawr is usually bored as well, he might help you out.

of course he has other things he has to do still >|

[Zeth]

All right, but

...have fluffy hair and still manage to have heads only 47 pixels tall?

Whereas the one I'm working on has very flat (actually supposed to be a hint greasy, but I'm not adept enough to really demonstrate that) hair that lacks volume and lays right on her head.

I'm not really trying to be obstinate on the issue, I just...don't really agree, simply. If I were more than one pixel away from your indicated minimum, I would still submit to your suggestion, but I think I will leave her head height at 47 pixels for now. If at the time when I mentioned I'll reassess it still looks funny, I'll bump it up to 48.

@Mew - Sure, if he wants I'd be glad to have him.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zeth

[Teapot]

Typical female head height is 46-50, whereas most males tend to have 49-52; as a general rule of thumb, though, most heads fall between 48-50. Scaling is dependent on how much you need to cram into the mug box, along with angle and hairstyle, as Seph has already said. I generally cut the head off 2px short of the top of the head border, to allow hair space. That usually means I end up with around 49px heads, if I start with a 47px base. Though, really, IMO, as long as the scaling LOOKS all right, it's not a huge deal. The only problem here is that the heads are crushed like prunes and raisins, so that's definitely not quite right.

Edited February 13, 2012 by uJELLY

[Nanami Touko]

Whereas the one I'm working on has very flat (actually supposed to be a hint greasy, but I'm not adept enough to really demonstrate that) hair that lacks volume and lays right on her head.

Well if you're trying to do that, she needs less hair and more head. Bump up that forehead some, while you're messing with the facial features.

Thank you AK <3

Edited February 13, 2012 by seph1212

[Zeth]

Well, something before I plod off to bed.

A bit ironic that Rachel (the one with fugly ear) definitely won't be in the final version of FE6.5; good practice anyway, I guess, to get started again.

[Teapot]

Wider heads on both of them, please. Especially the chick. The dude could maybe use another 2-3px, max.

[deranger]

Her ear seems really low, it's like mouth level.

[Feaw]

Uh no. It's at nose level, which is correct (just trace a line with your finger on your own face). It /could/ maybe be 1 pixel higher, but even then I don't think it's necessary.

[Nanami Touko]

Uh no. It's at nose level, which is correct (just trace a line with your finger on your own face). It /could/ maybe be 1 pixel higher, but even then I don't think it's necessary.

Except that it's too low. It's in line with the nose, sure, but it's not even close to the top of the eye or the eyebrow. It needs to be a pixel or so taller.

[Zeth]

Wider heads on both of them, please. Especially the chick. The dude could maybe use another 2-3px, max.

Earlier I understand, but I honestly do not see how you see a guy in either one of those.

[Teapot]

The greenie-bean looks like a pretty dude to me. >: Looking at it again, though, I'm now realizing that "she" is wearing Light's clothing, even though that in itself doesn't really matter a whole lot from the bust up (not to mention there's no real "bust" in the first place). I would not have known that mug was female unless you told me.

Long story short: Unless she were specifically tailored to be androgynous, I think you really need to work on making the feminine features more obvious. Everybody I showed your mug to called "her" a guy.

Edited February 13, 2012 by uJELLY

[The Blind Archer]

Earlier I understand, but I honestly do not see how you see a guy in either one of those.

It's a little thing called structure. I'll use green-hair as a primary example.

Green has a squared jaw and somewhat prominent chin in your touchup. This combo is associated with dudes. The unkempt neck-length hair is a common trait for dudes in JRPGs. The ones that lack spiky hair and/or muscles, at least. Generally, the jaw itself could be forgiven if there was an obvious feminine trait elsewhere on the body (spoiler: that's a subtle way of saying add tits). The line on the shirt indicates that this character is flatter than Death Valley, which is another trait that leads to assuming it's a dude when combined with the jaw.

tl;dr, I'm seeing y chromosomes in green because it looks like a dude.

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Blind Archer

[Zeth]

So basically what I'm hearing, other than the chin (which I see is wrong) and the line on the shirt (which is bad in both versions and was the next thing i had to ask about along with the yellow cape/cloak on the other portrait) is that she should be less realistic and more JRPG stereotype.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zeth

[Nanami Touko]

is that she should be less realistic and more JRPG stereotype.

No, just needs to look actually female.

Or you could pointlessly argue with people who know what they're talking about :U

[CT075]

@JRPG - How did you get that from anything that was just said? Just... what?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Camtech

[Teapot]

Well, let's see here...how many people IRL have naturally green hair? FE is an animu/mango-styled game to begin with, and we've had more than enough arguments of animu/mango vs. realism in the past. It's a moot point. If you're going to sprite and draw in the style of animu/mango, don't try and make excuses for realism. It just doesn't work.

[Zeth]

@Seph - I'm not pointlessly arguing, I'm trying to understand in a manner as equally blunt as the advice that's being given.

@Camtech -

The unkempt neck-length hair is a common trait for dudes in JRPGs.

It was only one of the examples. Admittedly out of context makesit misleading. But at bigger bust and more "feminine" hair is going for stereotypes to illustrate a person. In real life, women don't all have C cups or larger.

It could just be that I was using the JRPG comment to illustrate that one shouldn't need to add tits to make the character appear more feminine.

[Teapot]

Darling, a C-up is actually a very common cup size. Unless you're a woman, don't make assumptions about breasts. It just doesn't work. I'll have you know that I'm a B-cup, and it's still VERY OBVIOUS that I've boobage even when I'm wearing an incredibly bulky parka.

Secondly, there's a reason secondary sex characteristics and sexual dimorphism exists - it's there so you can actually tell the two genders apart.

Third, we're trying to help you. If you take offense to every little thing we say, you might as well just close up shop and place giant 'I IGNAYR ALL CRITIQUE AND COMMENTS THAT AREN'T COMPLIMENTS' sign up in your description so we know to avoid you. We're not trying to insult you; you're just being difficult. Just make the edits and blabber about it AFTERWARD.

Edited February 13, 2012 by uJELLY

[The Blind Archer]

Well, the point has been missed.

I'm not talking about animu versus realisim, dude. It's a matter of the combined structure making her look like it has a different set of equipment than you say she has. The jaw and the vertical line on her shirt point to being a man.

Seriously, the last several posts could've been avoided by you taking ten minutes to at least attempt adding boobs. We would've at least been inclined to believe that it's a chick had you done that.

Edited February 13, 2012 by The Blind Archer

[CT075]

@Camtech -

It was only one of the examples. Admittedly out of context makesit misleading. But at bigger bust and more "feminine" hair is going for stereotypes to illustrate a person. In real life, women don't all have C cups or larger.

And in that one example you give, even when out of context (because in context the implication is that you should be doing the exact opposite of what you claim) I can only see a vague hinting at it.

Forget C-cups, I see nothing. It's one thing to not have C-cups, it's quite another to be 100% flat. Like, you don't need to have wtfhueg busts, but have some sort of curve. In real life, 'traps' are still subject to the proportions of their gender.

[Teapot]

I'm loving how more discussion and argument goes on in this topic than actual spriting action.

[Thor Odinson]

My two cents as a <C cup female:

You can tell I have boobs. You've gotta be REALLY flat (28 AA? Those are pretty damn uncommon) to have nonexistent looking boobs. I have a B cup, and it shows through even with baggy clothes. A cups can get away looking flat in baggy clothes, but that outfit ain't lookin' baggy to me. It's not like we're asking you to do balloon tits or something, just a bit of indication that breasts, in fact, exist.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Nanami Touko]

Gonna second AK here, the average woman does have Cs I did a bit of research about this a while back for a completely unrelated issue

and it doesn't seem to me like you're trying to understand it, it seems to me like you're trying to make rude jabs because you don't like people pointing out issues in your sprites. Now, if you don't want us trying to help you, then say it, because we can all stop and you can go back to your sprites and sprite along your merry way. But, at least, I want to help. I saw that realistic mug you made in your intro topic, and I knew there was some sort of talent there. I'm just not seeing it here, which is rather surprising.

As for the whole "realism" thing, pretty much what AK said. If you're going to sprite FE, and aren't going to do what you showed in your intro topic, then there's no much point to argue against unrealistic designs/characters. You can still base most of what you're doing in realism, just don't expect it to be super awesome realistic in the end.

So, Zeth, why not, instead of arguing back at us, actually try what we suggest before you try to excuse against it? You might see that it actually works. Unless you're arguing because you don't want to do more work on the sprites.