Schoolgirl Mafia

[Bluedoom]

Bal targeted me? Huh. I can confirm that my role does not redirect nor roleblock on being targeted, so there's a roleblocker out there somewhere.

Also, having powers based on canon isn't completely out there. My character has actions that make perfect canonical sense. I wouldn't discount that theory completely.

wrt to 13th: come on, get in here

But also, even if he's scum!rolecop (which seems to be likely, because I doubt Clipsey would give town both a fullcop and a rolecop) , we can still keep him around, because rolecop isn't much of a threat, and if he doesn't comply to our plans to get information, we can lynch him tomorrow.

Excellen on the other hand... I still don't quite like his protection of 13th. Although, I'm saying we should keep him around, so I can't talk. But the fact that he might possibly be the redirect/persuader doesn't make me feel like we could take that chance. Add on his really aggressive actions in D1, and this is where I'm placing my vote.

##Vote: Excellen

Feel free to explain yourself. I'll listen.

What info are we getting from 13th if we keep him alive anyway? Hm?? Also keeping a mafia member alive for the sole sake of info is stupid, if we get a mislynch and the maf kills someone, we're in hot water.

[Bluedoom]

Also, my thoughts on Herr Fair Lady Excella:

- I think I'm convinced that Excellen is the Persuader. It explains why Rapier got lynched over him.

-Now we have to find out whether he's town or not. Kay not getting the alignment sounds weird to me.

- Its funny because this is a D1 repeat, at least for excellen. Last day phase he tried to find a new lynch target, asked people not to lynch another target(Darros) and ended up being one of the lynch options himself. This time its between him and 13th.

[Grace]

What info are we getting from 13th if we keep him alive anyway? Hm?? Also keeping a mafia member alive for the sole sake of info is stupid, if we get a mislynch and the maf kills someone, we're in hot water.

yeah okay, I see your point. but, we could try and make him target someone and give us info so we can determine more about what roles people have. he doesn't comply, we lynch him. simple.

but considering scum!13th, but fact that Excellen doesn't want 13th lynched kinda strikes out to me as suspicious. and we have a result that says that Excellen could be a redirect/persuader, and I would think that a redirect/persuade would be more threatening then a rolecop.

iunno, just my thoughts.

[Grace]

also, redirect/persuader doesn't sound like a town role, tbh. I remember someone saying something to the effect of: redirects aren't normally a town role (I think it was Kay?).

[Bluedoom]

also, redirect/persuader doesn't sound like a town role, tbh. I remember someone saying something to the effect of: redirects aren't normally a town role (I think it was Kay?).

We've had aTown persuader role in 13th in KRRM, what's to say this couldn't be the same case?

Also scum!13th won't give us any useful info. Even if he does scan another player role, if he tells us what the role does its as good as a claim( and we don't want any more claims) and of course he's not outing his mafia members. Add up the 'Idk if he's scum or not' tension to boot the following day phase and I don't wanna take a risk.

[Grace]

fair enough. I still think that Excellen is more of a threat than 13th right now.

I'm not saying 13th is cleared. I'm still very suspicious of him because town having two cops is stupid.

[Shinori]

I apologize for my stupidity when it came to the vig. And yeah I went for reverse psychology, so meh. However I do think its justified when it comes to Aere. Because let's be honest, instead of panicking and going after 13th, Aere deciding who else is suspicious and enthralling them( basically me and other players who didn't speak much) makes more sense.

At the point in time when you did this people were thinking you looked scummy, this confuses me. If by your words you were trying to say people who look scum are town and people who look town are scum then that would verify you as looking town because you were looking scummy, but that just seems off why would you state this? This is something most people tend to know that mafia players are going to attempt to look townish. That doesn't stop people from looking scummy and you didn't seem to care. I maybe speaking a little weird at the moment but the way you worded all of this makes me think that you are just a mafia attempting to look town.

Also, if Darros was mafia, why wouldn't he have lied about his target after it was clear that something went wrong?

This is something that i agree with unless darros just played it wrong i am more inclined to believe his safeguard claim over marth's martyr claim. Especially with a bodyguard in the game as well. Bodyguard, safeguard, and martyr seems like alot.

So I claimed vig

Marth claimed martyr

Kay claimed full cop

Blitz claimed safeguard

Supposedly there is a bodyguard in the game according to 13th.

13th claimed role cop i think?

Unknown is still imp, helios, Balc, Manix, daigoji, and scorri? I think that's all of them.

Over the past few pages people have been arguing on wether we should vote for excelen or 13th it seems for the most part. I'm fine with either most likely but i also think that 13th might be the better idea. If 13th is a mafia role cop he gets to know what we are, although we already claimed a majority of that already which means there isn't too much left over. If he's mafia we can believe kay's role as a cop easily, if he's town we can question kay, because i highly doubt we would get two cops in one town.

I'm partially suspicious of excelen as well but I'm actually more inclined to vote for 13th or marth from what i have read so far. Marth didn't make alot of sense in the earlier parts of this phase, and people either said he was fake claiming or blitz was fake claiming. Then this was posted.

Maybe this is just me, but there is a theory which explains things neatly without the need for multiple roleblockers.

1) Mafia roleblocked Aere.

This was a nobrainer move for them if they weren't planning on roleblocking cop, as they rest on their laurels while town sacrifices one of its own for no benefit, and they hope that cop doesn't strike paydirt. Alternately, there's the possibility of 13th being mafia stalker, so they wouldn't need to worry and could roleblock for free. However, the fact that I'm still alive and they killed Bizz, whose stated intention was to idle, indicates to me that if 13th actually does know my role, he is not mafia.

2) My target was shielded by a safeguard.

In order for this to happen, the only way I see it going off is if Sailor Moon is the mafia safeguard. Mafia loses nothing by straight-claiming relatively factionally-neutral (eclipse has been known to include mafia safeguards in the past,) roles like safeguard, and in claiming he did manage to push the lynch off of himself. Mafia safeguards would most likely be used on the person executing their nightkill, to act as psuedo-ninja/psuedo-hitman, bypassing things like roleblocks and redirections and trackings, however it could very easily be used on any mafia member to try to foil inspection results or ensure that a desired ability goes off as planned (whatever ability that may be). Alternately, mafia safeguard may attempt to safeguard the intended kill target, but since my target did not end up dead, I am discounting that possibility in my current hypothesis.

The only thing that worried me about his is the confusing statements of Marth regarding his role, and his understanding of how it was supposed to work. Especially given that his pre-phase-change post shows very promising insight and IMO pro-town initiative, despite deviating from the "accepted" plan, leading me to believe that he actually does have a solid head on his shoulders and proving an awkward contrast to his clumsy handling of everything regarding his claim. Still, we should remember that he was one of those that volunteered to claim as well, and that's especially risky for a mafia having to craft a fakeclaim and worry about counterclaims. For the moment I'm inclined to believe that Marth is a town with good intentions and questionable execution. Still worth considering, though, is that 13th, who I am also inclined to trust, claims there is a bodyguard that is not Marth. Thankfully this individual had the presence of mind not to openly counterclaim.

For now, though, my vote then rests as follows:

##Vote: Darros

This is still very open to change, but it seems a much more consistent explanation of tying everything together than many others offered. (Seriously, a half-effective kidnapping because the kidnapper died? Now that's a stretch if I ever heard one.)

Which mentions the possibility of a mafia safeguard, which could also mean that marth is telling the truth about his martyr role. I know this part is in the past but i see a few things possible here.

1: Blitz and marth could both be town, safeguard went through and the action from balc failed. Standard easy, still confusing because of everything that happened.

2: Blitz is mafia safeguard, and for some reason went through with saying who he safeguarded even though something went wrong during N1 which would seem like a weird and bad mistake. This still would most likely end up with marth being town and still martyr.

3: Blitz is Town safeguard and Marth could be scum and trolling us with lies about his role. Still would explain balc's role being stopped.

ALSO FORGIVE ME IF I MISSED SOMETHING IVE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP NOTES ON NOTE PAD THINGS.

Now as for my reasoning i think we should go with 13th or marth. If blitz is town safeguard and we lynch him it's not good. We just lost a protective role. I don't quite want to lose that if that's what it is.

Kay claimed full cop, don't want to lynch that at all.

Excellen has the weird flavor responses to kay apparently and is defending 13th who now seems scummy thanks to cop business.

13th, role cop? Seems weird to have a role cop and a normal cop for town. Unless the top is paranoid or newbie or something along those lines in which cause this would balance it a little bit but we don't know if that's what kay is for sure or not unless we lynch one of her targets.

Marth is a supposed martyr that was guarded by a safeguard, said he used his ability on balcerak i believe? which started all of the issues early on in day 2. Could have easily have fake claimed and wouldn't be caught, could be mafia bus driver supposedly from what a few people have mentioned which could make sense. Seem's scummy to me and i've stated a few things as to why.

Either way, Between the two of excellen and 13th, i would prefer to go after 13th. So for now.

##Vote: 13th

I hope everything i posted was understandable enough that it doesn't cause too much confusion. However i think i did formatting terribly.

[Bluedoom]

At the point in time when you did this people were thinking you looked scummy, this confuses me. If by your words you were trying to say people who look scum are town and people who look town are scum then that would verify you as looking town because you were looking scummy, but that just seems off why would you state this? This is something most people tend to know that mafia players are going to attempt to look townish. That doesn't stop people from looking scummy and you didn't seem to care. I maybe speaking a little weird at the moment but the way you worded all of this makes me think that you are just a mafia attempting to look town.

Well I concede that for the vig to think like that its stupid.

But, for Aere, its not because it'd be nice if we found more about players who're not saying much, they have a good chance of being scum who are blending in. Those who look scummy would have a less priority since the cop could do the job in such cases, so Aere targetting someone else who seemed less scummy seemed more sensible to me. I'm not saying that those who look scummy are town, but weird side actions like Aere's could be targetted at other players, and the cop deals with these guys. Also Aere normally going by Prims' plan had the consequences which you should know all too well.

[Bluedoom]

Anyway I'm thinking the Mafia RB just did that to Aere. Which means the mafia killed Bizz.

[Helios]

You seriously aren't making a lick of sense.

What part doesn't make sense? Character roles having to do with canon is pretty much how everyone I've seen so far is, and Kay having some sort of handicap for her cop abilities is POSSIBLE, but I want to confirm that with her by her telling us if she got all the information she should have gotten (character name, role, affiliation). I don't know how I can be anymore clear with this.

And 13th still hasn't stopped by to explain his case...can someone do a votals real quick?

[Grace]

There shouldn't have been a RB on Aere, because Bal got roleblocked. There is a redirect present though... (of course, assuming there isn't another RB, which is silly)

So maybe the redirecter (possibly Excellen) redirected Aere away from 13th (last I checked, that was the plan)? And Excellen doesn't want 13th lynched. That's... too convenient. Yet another reason to keep my vote on Excellen.

[Grace]

unless of course my brain isn't working right and I've missed something else

[Helios]

There shouldn't have been a RB on Aere, because Bal got roleblocked. There is a redirect present though... (of course, assuming there isn't another RB, which is silly)

So maybe the redirecter (possibly Excellen) redirected Aere away from 13th (last I checked, that was the plan)? And Excellen doesn't want 13th lynched. That's... too convenient. Yet another reason to keep my vote on Excellen.

Lol no that's silly.

[Grace]

iunno, it's a possibility

scum!redirect would likely try and sabotage the plan. It's just Excellen has the possibility of being that redirect

again, my thought process. sometimes it's completely silly

[Helios]

I'm kidding Manix. I'm just being an asshole. Truth is I've had that idea for like 2 days, well before even Kay claimed fullcop.

[Grace]

I'm kidding Manix. I'm just being an asshole. Truth is I've had that idea for like 2 days, well before even Kay claimed fullcop.

why would you do that to meeeeeeee

K, good to see we're on the same wavelength

[Kay]

so you get everything but the flavor.

which is still more or less a complete role PM to me.

Also are you a JoaT?

Not a JoAT, just a cop.

Why do you think Kay didn't vote me or at least say "lynch excellen he's maf" when I said my role only mentions Asuka Tenjoin? That's because the Asuka Tenjoin role name was tied to the town role and town alignment.

I said I didn't get any alignment for either name. Frankly IMO you not paying attention to what I said that way makes it look like you know too much about what happened already. Am I the only one getting this impression?

Kay, whoever else you investigated (you don't need to name who), did they give you all the information you were supposed to get from them? As in did you get a character name, role name and alignment? That could clear up whether or not your a cop with a handicap or something is weird with Excellen.

Yeah, my other result is totally normal.

Opinions:

Balcerzak - The most townish player who's still alive IMO. Would be nice if he posted more but what posts he has made are townish.

Shinori/Iris - Neutral/nonexistent

Proto/13th - ALL OF THE SCUMMINESS. Claim was random, unwarranted, and dumb, no activity before that. If it was just Proto, I'd dismiss it as him being busy, but 13th didn't talk for some time either, and he's still not saying much now. Plus that thing about his role and mine probably not both being town.

Helios - Somewhat townish. He's making sense for a newbie, but in a thinking-things-out kinda way, not a being-tutored-by-scumbuddies way IMO.

Marth - Make sense or else. Slightly scummy.

scorri - Maybe just ever so slightly suspicious, but not really enough to be at all important. Basically neutral at this point. I think she's more new than anything else.

Manix - Neutral. Talk more.

Excellen - Somewhat scummy. He's started acting more townish now, but that result is way too weird, I don't like his earlier play, I don't like him discouraging discussion, and I don't like that last reaction.

Darros/Blitzy - Slightly town.

Imp - Very slightly suspicious. Talk more.

[Grace]

Manix - Neutral. Talk more.

I'm talking as much as my timezone will allow, mind you

and as much as my thoughts will take me

[Helios]

why would you do that to meeeeeeee

K, good to see we're on the same wavelength

Basically what the problem is with this theory is that it means that Bal got roleblocked. But if Marth got safeguarded by Darros, there should be no roleblock. So someone fakeclaimed (or lied about their target), and it's hard who to tell is lying. Marth says he's the martyr and he targeted Bal, and Blitz says Darros is the safeguard and that he targeted Marth. So something isn't right.

For Bal's theory to be true, that means that Darros targeted Manix. But does anyone see a connection between Darros and Manix? I can't think of anything right now.

[Helios]

@Kay: Interesting. So that means that there's something weird about Excellen's character, and it's not you being handicapped.

[Grace]

that's kinda weird. I wouldn't expect Darros to target me. But, would such an action give a roleblocked result? I somehow think it wouldn't, and hence the problem lies elsewhere in the chain of events. But I'm not sure.

[Shinori]

I don't know why darros would have targeted manix. Having to do with that whole event i don't quite know who fakeclaimed at all, but i still have my thoughts on marth because of how he seemed like he was trying to say that him acting scummy meant he was town.

[scorri]

Ok, I'm just stopping by here really quickly as a break from paper writing.

So, from what I'm seeing, Excellen's giving a really weird, not normal result from Kay's investigation. One of those roles looks scummy (the redirector/persuader), but neither role has an alignment attached to it. However, Excellen seemed to know that one role was town and the other was scum. This indicates to me that he has more info than he should, which makes me think he's mafia.

As for why keeping 13th around isn't the worst idea in the world. It's possible, though I think unlikely right now, that he could still be a town role cop, which is a role I'm not inclined to lose Day 2. And if he is mafia, then we can just lynch him tomorrow. I'd just prefer to lynch the person who has a role that produces multiple results when investigated, seems to know too much, and is defending a scummy seeming person with little to no rationalization that I can see. So yeah. My vote is staying where it is for now.

Unrelatedly, if anyone wants to volunteer to write my paper on reverse osmosis, I'll be able to be more active. :-p

[Bluedoom]

Well here's what I think.

If we lynch 13th and he flips town, at least we get an idea who's mafia(Kay).

If we lynch Excellen and he flips town, we'll have wasted our lynch, I guess. But with this lynch we have a higher chance of hitting a mafia.

[Helios]

I think 13th is a better lynch over Excellen right now. I think a mafia role cop would be more helpful than a mafia persuader/redirector. A person who changes votes will be more useful later in the game as to earlier in the game anyway, and a person who redirects actions needs a lot of knowledge to do things correctly. Also, as Marth said, if 13th flips town then we'll know Kay is scum, and also Excellen might look less suspicious at the same time (seeing as he's been defending 13th for a while).

Therefore I'm keeping my vote on 13th, at least until he comes in and explains stuff.